Help with table saw decision

[Brian Keith]

Delta 36-714 or Craftsman 22114. If I go with the Delta I need to order it Monday. Any help would be great. Thanks

[Thomas Barron]

Delta...smoother, quieter, stronger, better

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I love my Delta....wouldn't trade it for anything.

[Brian Keith]

Well I ordered the Delta 36-714 this morning from a local Rockler. It should be here in a week and a half.

[glenn bradley]

Well I ordered the Delta 36-714 this morning from a local Rockler. It should be here in a week and a half.
Do you belong to Rockler Rewards? They are offering free shipping right now on any order. Expires 10/7/07.

[Jeff Raymond]

Don't buy anything that says Craftsman that has a power cord attached to it.

[Tim Morton]

amazon has free shipping on table saws too right now...;)

[Gary Keedwell]

Don't buy anything that says Craftsman that has a power cord attached to it.
I don't know about that Jeff. For an occasional weekend woodworker who isn't going to make a museum quality piece of furniture, it should do alright. Also, a young guy just starting out...well you know what I mean..

Gary K. (Viet Nam Veteran)

[Matt P]

I've had good luck with the Craftsman 8" belt/disc sander, and the 10" benchtop table saw. They are well made.. However, I just returned a Craftsman benchtop table saw ($110), which was a piece of junk.

[Curt Harms]

Don't buy anything that says Craftsman that has a power cord attached to it.

but the Craftsman branded stuff from Orion/Steel City has been getting pretty good reviews for both quality and service. The "zip code" saws and band saws both seem well thought of. There is a rumor that the Delta hybrid saw is produced by Orion/Steel city. One thing the Craftsman 22114 has going for it is cabinet mounted trunnions instead of the trunnions being mounted to the table top like Delta. It's easier to align cabinet mounted trunnions.

HTH

Curt

[scott spencer]

Don't buy anything that says Craftsman that has a power cord attached to it.

Yeah...buy GMC, Pontiac, or Buick but not Chevy! :D

[Jeff Raymond]

Not to be 'controversial' for the sake of it.

If someone is starting out, the extra bucks for a great saw are well worth the initial investment. Why buy a foundation tool such as a TS that isn't at least pretty good? Get a good one that is solid and it'll last a lifetime.

When I first started out, I did the Sears thing and within one year of making stuff, I had a 55 gallon drum filled with Craftsman power tools. Then I went to Makita and finally to Milwaukee. Now I have a blend of Read and Bosch which seem to be at least pretty good. Working with hardwoods all the time, it's a good test of a hand/power tool.

Certainly don't make museum quality work, that's for sure; but the relatively small extra price to pay for good tools that don't have to be replaced is well worth having to fool around with junk tools.

If a guy is gonna do the job, do it right the first time?

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Brian, the tablesaw advice you receive will be all over the map, including the advice you are going to receive from me.

I owned a Crafstman Flex drive tablesaw for aproximately 15 years, before replacing it with a General 650 with an Excalibur Overarm guard.

The 1 1/4 HP Craftsman saw, was the most expensive model they sold at the time (about $1,000) however my mother-in-law worked for Emmerson and was able to purchase it at half price.

The saw worked well, I built a lot of furniture with it, and sold it to a co-worker who is happy with it is, and continues to use it.

When I bought the General, there were three things I finally decided;

1) I've replaced every lower end piece of machinery in the shop over 20 years. If I was going to do it again, I would buy an Oneida cyclone first, then a good saw, jointer and planer. I've spent too much money upgrading.

2) I wanted a cabinet saw, not a contractor saw, or a hybrid, but a genuine cabinet saw. It's going to be the last saw I ever buy.

3) I decided to put my money where my mouth was, and buy a made in Canada product, so General was an obvious choice. I don't think anyone has ever purchased a General product that they felt didn't deliver on the quality, accuracy and finish the price demanded.

So I guess the point I am trying to make is buy the best you can afford, even if you have to wait a few months. Learn from those of us who spent a lot of money on upgrading equipment.

The other item is, you probably will buy an offshore piece of machinery, whether it's Delta, Steel City, Craftsman, General International etc. The stories you may hear about offshore junk, are just as accurate as those you will hear about made in North America junk. Quality is a function of money, it costs money to engineer, produce, and inspect good machinery, regardless of where it manufactured.

Good hunting, and enjoy your new saw safely..........Rod.

[Brian Keith]

Thanks all for the info. I did go with the Delta which will be here next week. Craftsman did get great reviews with the zip code saws. I own the 14" Craftsman band saw for almost a year now and am very happy with it so far but the customer service is horid at Sears and is one of the reasons why I bought the Delta from a local Rockler. Nice people there and Ill go there if there is any problems with the Delta. Thanks

[Art Travers]

Rod you are so correct...I started out 20 years ago with a Grizzly contractor
saw..needless to say it was a piece of junk (not to demean Grizzly since they seem have their act together now) . Sold it along with the 6" Grizzly jointer which also was virtually impossible to put together (should have seen my bleeding hands).
Purchsed a Ryobi Saw with sliding table...Ho Ho! another toy..
Tolerances were a joke and never was able to get the saw blade properly
adjusted to the table or the fence - Ryobi tried to help..
Sold it.
Then purchased a Delta Contractor Saw with unifence ( at considerably
more money) which I still have it today after 18 years. Lesson to be learned.
Here is another comment (bad or indifference) about Craftsman Tools..
My local Craigslist (orange county, Ca) has 90% of large tool items
for sale are Craftsman. Make your own decision.

[Greg Pavlov]

.....
Here is another comment (bad or indifference) about Craftsman Tools..
My local Craigslist (orange county, Ca) has 90% of large tool items
for sale are Craftsman. Make your own decision.
That would be good information if we also knew what percentage of all
large tool items sold in the last 20 years or so in Orange County were
Craftsman.

[glenn bradley]

but the Craftsman branded stuff from Orion/Steel City has been getting pretty good reviews for both quality and service. The "zip code" saws and band saws both seem well thought of. There is a rumor that the Delta hybrid saw is produced by Orion/Steel city. One thing the Craftsman 22114 has going for it is cabinet mounted trunnions instead of the trunnions being mounted to the table top like Delta. It's easier to align cabinet mounted trunnions.

HTH

Curt

Alas, at this point in history we can no longer say Brand A is all junk and Brand B is all great. If that were true then all Delta stuff would be good and all DeWalt stuff would be good, etc. Anybody remember the Porter Cable profile sander? :D

[Art Travers]

Just an observation. No conclusions!

[Brian Keith]

Lots of Craftsman also sold here in Maine. Ive been ww for only a year and other than Westerntool and Rockler there are limited brands to buy, so if there has only been Sears selling equipment for years then that is whats going to be for sale.

[John Appleseed]

I bought the 36-714 about a year ago, been using it on 120v......I now want to up it to 240 volts as it doesn't have the power for ripping....

In the manual that came with the saw it doesn't show how to convert it......there is no electrician in my community either.....

would appreciate if someone could give me detailed instructions.....thanks..

[Nissim Avrahami]

Hi John

I don't think that converting from 120V to 240V will give you more power....maybe, it will give a little bit more power but not significantly.

The voltage, if you compare it to Hydraulic power - is the pressure (PSI)
The Ampere, is the flow (Gallon Per Minute)

To get some power (work), you can supply Low pressure and High flow or you can supply High pressure and Low flow.

So, if you'll change the "Pressure" to 240V the "Flow" will decrease to half (or very close to half) but, you'll get the same power (HP), considering that you are using the same motor...

If you have the Specification, please check the Ampere consumption at 120V and 240V...I believe that you'll see half of the Amps at 240V.

If you want to know the HP, multiply the Volts by the Amperes...it will give you Watts
Now, divide the Watts to 746 and you'll get HP (not exactly but you are not going to build a motor - you just want to compare)...

For example if your motor consumes 15 Amps at 120V...
15A x 120V = 1,800W
1,800W : 746 = 2.41 HP

If your motor consumes 7.5A at 240V
7.5 x 240 = 1800W
Well, same HP...

So, the benefit from 240V is lower Amperes that require thinner wires (gauge) and I think better "start-up"...

Oh, by the way...the HP that you got there is...the "Input HP"...if you want to know the "Output HP"....well, it's about 60% of the Input...but, we want to sell high HP - don't we :)

Regards
niki

[Neal Clayton]

Hi Brian, the tablesaw advice you receive will be all over the map, including the advice you are going to receive from me.

I owned a Crafstman Flex drive tablesaw for aproximately 15 years, before replacing it with a General 650 with an Excalibur Overarm guard.

The 1 1/4 HP Craftsman saw, was the most expensive model they sold at the time (about $1,000) however my mother-in-law worked for Emmerson and was able to purchase it at half price.

The saw worked well, I built a lot of furniture with it, and sold it to a co-worker who is happy with it is, and continues to use it.

When I bought the General, there were three things I finally decided;

1) I've replaced every lower end piece of machinery in the shop over 20 years. If I was going to do it again, I would buy an Oneida cyclone first, then a good saw, jointer and planer. I've spent too much money upgrading.




heh, that's me. i had the benefit of using my stepbrother's shop over the years when i didn't have room for my own to learn from his mistakes for free, and when i decided to gut my garage apartment and build my own shop, those were exactly the first things in it. a used PM66 i got at an estate auction, second thing was an oneida cyclone.

[Jerry McFalls]

I have the Delta 5 HP left tilt X5 Unisaw and think it's great. I know you'll enjoy your Delta purchase. :)

[Chris Kennedy]

Just to add my 0.02 dollars . . .

I have a Craftsman 22124, the model up from the 22114. I was strongly considering the 22114 until I had a windfall and could afford the next model up.

Regarding "Don't buy a Craftsman . . . " -- always view a Craftsman tool with wariness. The first thing, with any Craftsman tool, is to determine who made the bloody thing. If you look at the zip code line of saws, particularly in a store next to the other Craftsman saws, you will notice that they are considerably better quality at a glance. This doesn't even take into account actual performance. You can tell they are physically better saws.

I bought mine after a lot of research. I read a lot of reviews of a lot of saws, some professional and a lot of amateurs on fora like SMC. I couldn't buy a 3HP or higher because I was renting a townhouse, and I was limited by a 12 amp circuit. I had to buy a saw that would work on it (as it was, every time I started it, it dimmed every light in the house). I looked at mostly hybrid and some contractor saws. A lot were not available locally, and would have required a lot in shipping charges, and the little fine print detail -- we'll bring it to the back of the truck, and then you're on your own after paying freight charges. (For the record, Sears moved it into my basement for $50 -- we also had a mattress delivered at the same time for no extra charge). Comparable saws by Grizzly, General, DeWalt and JET fell by the wayside because the Craftsman appeared to be comparable, was more convenient, and became competitively priced when it was on sale.

I have built a lot with that saw, and I have never looked back. I imagine that I will have it for a very long time. It is well made and well designed. There are better saws, I am certain, but that doesn't make it a bad saw. After a little time (20 minutes?) calibrating it, and a couple of five minute tune-ups after moving it interstate twice, it is still dead-on.

That being said, I can totally understand opting for the Delta because of Sears customer service. Sears are a bunch of idiots for the most part. And just in case people think I am biased, I have owned a grand total of two Craftsmen tools in my life -- my tablesaw and my first cordless drill given to me as a gift. Every other major power tool purchase, I have generally rejected the Craftsman tool.

Don't reject the zip code saw simply because they are Craftsman brand. The Craftsman brand is so variable that it is completely meaningless. Some things are total garbage and others are very good.

I hope the Delta serves you well. Let us know if there is something particularly wonderful or particularly bad about it.

Cheers,

Chris

[John Appleseed]

I looked at the tag on my motor and I can see that the amps change from 15 to 7.5 when the voltage is changed from 120 to 240......

right now when I am ripping a 2 x 4 I have to go very slow or the motor will trip out.....I was always of the impression that ripping of board is much more effective using 240 volts.....

[John Appleseed]

My Delta Hybrid is only 1.75 h.p., so based on what you guys have said I should upgrade to more h.p. .......

What hp should I upgrade to, I will be ripping hardwood boards.......

Would appreciate your help....

[Prashun Patel]

I'd try rewiring for 240v before you go replacing yr saw.

Even if you have to replace yr saw, you'll have to rewire for 240, since anything north of your machine will be a 240v cab saw.

[John Appleseed]

I wasn't thinking of replacing the saw itself, but maybe the "motor", and if that was a better option, what hp should I get for my existing saw??

[Richard Magbanua]

My Delta Hybrid is only 1.75 h.p., so based on what you guys have said I should upgrade to more h.p. .......

What hp should I upgrade to, I will be ripping hardwood boards.......

Would appreciate your help....

Before you get a new saw...
What blade are you using?
Most blades that come with new saws aren't very good at least when compared to premium blades. You can compare and compare one hybrid saw to another, but the REAL difference is the BLADE!
If you are going to rip a lot of boards then you should try a rip blade. I have a Freud glueline rip and it works considerably better/faster than my Freud combo blade. You also may need to get a thin kerf blade made for lower hp saws. I have a CM hybrid and haven't had much problems with power for what I do.
Are you using your blade guard/splitter? Ripping boards can release tension in the wood and cause the board to close up after the cut and pinch the blade.
Finally, repeated ripping 2x4 hardwood boards is a lot to ask of anything under a cabinet saw. It's not a big deal to rip in two passes so don't be too hard on your saw. It's still a good saw!

Good Luck,
Richard in Indy

[John Sanford]

John,

I realize this may sound basic, but is the blade sharp and clean? I've cut plenty of 2x4's on my Delta Contractor's saw which uses a motor with essentially the same specs, and only had a problem when using a dull or goobered blade. Sure, it takes longer to cut a hard maple 2x4 than it does to cut a "loose ring" Douglas fir 2x4, but my saw still handled the maple (and oak, and mystery hardwoods) with aplomb.

Respectfully,

Another John...

[Curt Harms]

I wasn't thinking of replacing the saw itself, but maybe the "motor", and if that was a better option, what hp should I get for my existing saw??
Is there anything else else on the same circuit as the saw? If so, there may well be low voltage when ripping. Could You hook a voltmeter into the same circuit as the saw so you can watch the voltage as you rip without it being a distraction? That might provide an indication about whether the existing power supply is adequate. Even better would be to watch the amperage but that would be a little more involved. If there's no significant voltage drop under load, the circuit is providing enough amperage.

HTH

Curt