My used table saw purchase, questions ...

[Charles Modica]

Hi everyone.

I've been reading on this forums and others for the last couple of months, getting background information before buying my first table saw. I'm in my early 50's, and have always been interested in getting started in woodworking for many years. Before I purchased this, I had looked at a number of new saws in stores, and keeping an eye on used saws in Craigslist. My saw will be kept in a detached garage, and for now be rolled outside until I get the attached workroom organized (a project in itself).

When the opportunity arose to buy this Delta contractors saw (34-444, made in 1993) for $90, I felt I could not afford to let this purchase pass.

http://www.cm-consulting.net/tablesaw/DSC_1977.jpg

There is a little bit of surface rust on the right hand side cast iron top, though I expect it should clean up. And there is some blemishes to the stamped metal side surfaces.

http://www.cm-consulting.net/tablesaw/DSC_1978.jpg

http://www.cm-consulting.net/tablesaw/DSC_1980.jpg

The motor runs smooth (a penny will stand while running, though it will fall turning the motor on or off as there are some vibrations spinning up and down).

The crank handle gears are a little rough, my guess is due to the fact of all the built up gunk underneath as shown in pictures below:

http://www.cm-consulting.net/tablesaw/DSC_1982.jpg

http://www.cm-consulting.net/tablesaw/DSC_1983.jpg

http://www.cm-consulting.net/tablesaw/DSC_1984.jpg

It looks like with taking four bolts off from below the table, I can take the saw cast iron top with the saw attached off the metal cabinet, which would then give me access to clean up the crud.

Is this the right approach? Any advice as to how far to go in cleaning this up / renewing it?

[keith ouellette]

I have never looked at a contractor saw that carefully but everything I have heard about them tells me every is mounted to the table except the motor. I would check the blade runout and if the fence is paralel to the miter slot first and make sure you can keep it all strait first.

[Charles Modica]

I forgot to add that this $90 bargain came with the JDS Accu-Miter, though it's got junk on it that I will try to clean off.

http://www.cm-consulting.net/tablesaw/DSC_1994.jpg

I did pick up the Miter Gauge Extra Stop at Amazon for $20 (its now $37) shown below.

http://www.cm-consulting.net/tablesaw/DSC_1992.jpg

All in all, I think I got an incredible deal, and I can always sell this later and get all of my money back (and perhaps more) when I get experience and want a better saw.

[Charles Modica]

I have never looked at a contractor saw that carefully but everything I have heard about them tells me every is mounted to the table except the motor. I would check the blade runout and if the fence is paralel to the miter slot first and make sure you can keep it all strait first.

It appears to be pretty straight -- I have to do all the setup checks (I received The Table Saw book and the Mastering Your Table Saw as gifts before I bought the saw), but I figured I'd do all the setup stuff after I get it cleaned up.

I also may very well spend $25 on the PowerTwist Plus belt, keeping the perfectly good belt on it to put back on when and if I sell it.

[keith ouellette]

It seems like a good deal especially if it doesn't vibrate. Its a great starter saw. Besides, I hear its not the saw but the guy using it who makes the accurate cuts.

[scott spencer]

That's a heck of a good deal for $90. Lots of untapped potential for tweaks and minor improvements at that price. If you ever wanted to, you could always upgrade the steel wings to cast iron, upgrade the fence, and add a link belt. Pick up a decent blade or two....

Enjoy!

[Paul Libby]

I think you got a great deal on the saw. The miter gage and Freud blade are bonuses. If ever you want to up grade, just clean it up real nice and you can sell it at a profit.

[Chuck Lenz]

Charles, I have that same saw with a 30" Unifence, and mobile base 34-445. I bought it new in 1995 for $850. Just looking at the extension wings on your saw I would say that your saw has seen very little use. I don't see a reason to take it apart. You got one heck of a deal. All I have added to the saw since I bought it was a Fenner Drives PowerTwist link belt and a improved dust port that I designed myself. It has been a very good saw. http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c89/Woodchuck_/100_0068.jpg

[Jason White]

Nice looking saw, but the fence looks like an old clunker. Get over to Lowe's and see if they've got any Biesemeyers left for $80 (they've been closing them out -- normally $400). The model # is 36-B30. It will "make" your tablesaw. If you can't find one, check ebay where's they're going for about $200-ish (new in box).

JW


Hi everyone.

I've been reading on this forums and others for the last couple of months, getting background information before buying my first table saw. I'm in my early 50's, and have always been interested in getting started in woodworking for many years. Before I purchased this, I had looked at a number of new saws in stores, and keeping an eye on used saws in Craigslist. My saw will be kept in a detached garage, and for now be rolled outside until I get the attached workroom organized (a project in itself).

When the opportunity arose to buy this Delta contractors saw (34-444, made in 1993) for $90, I felt I could not afford to let this purchase pass.

http://www.cm-consulting.net/tablesaw/DSC_1977.jpg

There is a little bit of surface rust on the right hand side cast iron top, though I expect it should clean up. And there is some blemishes to the stamped metal side surfaces.

http://www.cm-consulting.net/tablesaw/DSC_1978.jpg

http://www.cm-consulting.net/tablesaw/DSC_1980.jpg

The motor runs smooth (a penny will stand while running, though it will fall turning the motor on or off as there are some vibrations spinning up and down).

The crank handle gears are a little rough, my guess is due to the fact of all the built up gunk underneath as shown in pictures below:

http://www.cm-consulting.net/tablesaw/DSC_1982.jpg

http://www.cm-consulting.net/tablesaw/DSC_1983.jpg

http://www.cm-consulting.net/tablesaw/DSC_1984.jpg

It looks like with taking four bolts off from below the table, I can take the saw cast iron top with the saw attached off the metal cabinet, which would then give me access to clean up the crud.

Is this the right approach? Any advice as to how far to go in cleaning this up / renewing it?

[Josiah Bartlett]

That's an older Jetlock fence, they aren't bad as long as the rails aren't bent. I have the 50" version on my Unisaw. It makes repeatable cuts, as long as you are careful lining it up.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Very nice saw for $90....you should be proud to own that one.

[Dave MacArthur]

Great buy! I have a 36-something, bought in 96, that looks very similar, which has served me well. I do have the bies fence on it, and love it.

As far as getting the bies fence... actually, I know that there are folks on this forum that raced out and bought 5 or more of these things! So, I wouldn't be too surprised if you went to the "Lowes Biesmeyer fence" thread (use search for those terms), read it, and PMed a few of the folks who bought the world's supply, if one of them might not be happy to sell you one for $120 or something. Having a pile of "great craigslist buys that I can resell later for a profit!" still sitting in my garage, I can say that I'd be happy to part with most of it to a fellow creeker starting out for vastly less than I advertised on CL...
GOOD LUCK!

[Frank Stolten]

You got a great buy and were smart to buy a good used saw for your first one. You'll learn a lot by using it and be more knowledgable if you ever upgrade. I have the same JDS Accumiter miter guage and I'm very happy with it, it's worth more than what you paid for the saw. If someday you ever decide to upgrade you can easily sell the saw for more than you paid for it plus keep the JDS for your next saw.

[Jim Heffner]

Charles, looks as if you got a good deal on that saw...especially for the price. I looked at all the pictures....and was wondering...where is the power switch for the saw? Didn't see it,I did see the backside of an electrical box from an inside picture, but not from the front side. If I were you, I would think about relocating it to a much more convient/ accessible
location for safety sake more than anything else. A large paddle type safety switch (on - off) like a red stop sign may prove to be really handy someday. Jim Heffner

[Kent Fitzgerald]

I looked at all the pictures....and was wondering...where is the power switch for the saw?
There's a toggle on the front, just to the left of the bevel angle scale. I agree that a larger switch, or a magnetic starter, would be a big improvement.

[Chuck Lenz]

There's a toggle on the front, just to the left of the bevel angle scale. I agree that a larger switch, or a magnetic starter, would be a big improvement.
I agree with Jim and Kent. As I said before I have the same saw. That little switch can be hard to reach at times plus that electrical box fills up with sawdust in time, not really a good place for it. A large paddle switch on the fence would be nice. I need to look into one myself that has the same pig tail plug for the motor. I'm sure I'll have to go to Delta for that.

[Charles Modica]

I agree with Jim and Kent. As I said before I have the same saw. That little switch can be hard to reach at times plus that electrical box fills up with sawdust in time, not really a good place for it. I large paddle switch on the fence would be nice. I need to look into one myself that has the same pig tail plug for the motor. I'm sure I'll have to go to Delta for that.

I had already planned on upgrading the switch, though I had read some where that you had to match the switch to the motor.

Isn't a switch a switch, as long as it will handle the 120VAC it's wired for?

[Charles Modica]

Nice looking saw, but the fence looks like an old clunker. Get over to Lowe's and see if they've got any Biesemeyers left for $80 (they've been closing them out -- normally $400). The model # is 36-B30. It will "make" your tablesaw. If you can't find one, check ebay where's they're going for about $200-ish (new in box).

JW

I checked my local Lowes and all the bargains are gone in my area :(

However, I have reached a deal with another Sawmill Creek forum member who I am purchasing a Beisemeyer fence for (though not for $80 ;) ).

So, including the Freud thin kerf blades I have bought, the fence, the Accu-Miter stop, I will have dropped another $270 on my $90 bargain :D .

And I still have several other items on my planned purchase list ...

At least I figure that the other stuff I am buying can go on any new or different saw I buy down the road, and I can put the original items back on my $90 saw and get my money back.

But, this is nothing new -- I've yet to find a hobby that isn't a way to help the economy.

Thanks for all the feedback.

Charlie
P.S. I'm still assuming just taking off four bolts where the table is bolted to the stand gets me the access I need to clean up all the jink below and have a smoother operating rack and pinion arrangement for the saw movement.

[glenn bradley]

If you look at what that blade, the Accumiter and a motor go for, you got everything else free. Great deal. Speaking as someone who has tweaked a contractor saw, save yourself wasted material, frustration and possible injury by doing some things before you start your first "real" project. Here's my two cents:

First thing I usually go for is a fence. You can wait on this and see how the one you have does. You'll know shortly after starting to use it if it is a keeper or not. Assuming proper alignment, your fence and blade can make or break a love affair with your table saw.

Second, most saws benefit from a link belt and machined pulleys to reduce vibration. You state minimal vibration right now so you may be ahead of the game on that score too; let's wait.

That being said, before you go wild on clean-up, let's make sure it can be aligned. If the saw will never true-up, clean it up purdy and sell it. There are plenty of posts here on alignment so I won't re-hash that but it is one of the most important performance AND safety efforts you can put into a saw.

If it aligns well, let's clean up. Lay out a piece of cardboard or plywood to protect the top, remove the motor and flip that baby on it's head. Remove the bolts you spoke of and keep track of the positions of any shims and washers you remove. More than one poor guy has struggled ini vain to get his top back on flat only to realize that the washers are of different thicknesses or that the shims were in the wrong positions.

With the bolts out you can remove the stand from the table/trunnion assembly. The stand is much lighter than the other so no back strain. Clean off the elevation and angle screw rods, trunnion guide ways, etc. This will be pretty obvious once you get the saw to where you can see what's going on in there.

As to lubrication after everything is clean, I use a spray-on DRY teflon lube (from the BORG). Some folks use a grease but the attraction of dust is too much for my taste.

OK, all clean and lubed up? Re-attach the stand placing all washers, shims, etc. back where they came from and flip her right side up. Go through your alignment routine again and your about set.

A large paddle type power switch that you can hit with your knee or thigh to shutdown without removeing your hands from the work is preferred. Rockler has an aftermarket switch with a big STOP on the paddle for around $25 that a lot of folks like. A mag switch is safer but let's not spend more than you spent on the saw too fast.

OK, once you get through that, give us a shout and tell us how it's going.

Enjoy yor saw.

P.s. I bought a used C-man for $100 and put about another $100 into it (plus an extension wing router table) and it sang like a bird. The only reason I sold it was because a killer deal came along on a bigger saw and my dad wanted my C-man (Oh sure, now that its all tricked out, he wants it). Just kidding dad. Se it here: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=39009&d=1148231813 I swear, its under there, really.

[Michael Weber]

Before giving up on the fence if it gives you alignment problems, make sure it is adjusted so the front side clamps down on the rail before the rear hook of the fence grabs the rear rail. It's an easy adjustment to make. This assumes the Jetlock fence on your saw is like mine. Can't really tell from the pictures but it appears the same from the front. If the rear hook grabs first it may keep the front clamps from pulling the fence straight.

[Kent Fitzgerald]

I had already planned on upgrading the switch, though I had read some where that you had to match the switch to the motor.

Isn't a switch a switch, as long as it will handle the 120VAC it's wired for?
For a regular on-off switch, it should be rated for motor use and have voltage and current ratings higher than the motor's needs.

A magnetic switch needs to be matched to the motor's voltage and (approximate) current draw. Most of them are adjustable over a range.

[Charles Modica]

If you look at what that blade, the Accumiter and a motor go for, you got everything else free. Great deal. Speaking as someone who has tweaked a contractor saw, save yourself wasted material, frustration and possible injury by doing some things before you start your first "real" project. Here's my two cents:

First thing I usually go for is a fence. You can wait on this and see how the one you have does. You'll know shortly after starting to use it if it is a keeper or not. Assuming proper alignment, your fence and blade can make or break a love affair with your table saw.

Second, most saws benefit from a link belt and machined pulleys to reduce vinration. You state minimal vibration right now so you may be ahead of the game on that score too; let's wait.

That being said, before you go wild on clean-up, let's make sure it can be aligned. If the saw will never true-up, clean it up purdy and sell it. There are plenty of posts here on alignment so I won't re-hash that but it is one of the most important performance AND safety efforts you can put into a saw.

...

OK, once you get through that, give us a shout and tell us how it's going.

Enjoy yor saw.

Glenn -

Thanks for your excellent feedback. I really wan not looking for confirmation of a "deal" as I already knew I did fine from looking at used and new saws for several months now.

I was looking for the exact advice you were giving in terms of how to approach the "clean-up and tune-up project". So it sounds like I should get the square out and see how true I get the blade and fence before tearing it down for any clean-up. I shall do that taking proper safety precautions when I do test rips (while safety is needed for all operations, everything I've read seems to imply that rips are inherently more dangerous than cross cuts in terms of kickbacks).

Sp, I'll see how true the saw is, then take the top off. I'm less concerned about it looking clean and pretty under the table as much as I'm sure the crud and junk contribute to the lack of the adjustment cranks being smooth throughout their range.

All the purchases I have made for the saw I can take to a new or different saw if I sell this right away (or down the line). I was going to hold off on the fence and see how this plays out (as while it may be a "clunker" its much better than many of the fences I looked at on many less than $500 new saws I've seen at stores), however the price I'm "re buying" the Bies fence at is a similar bargain that I am better taking advantage now rather than later.

I almost ordered a Powertwist Plus belt, but decided to hold off until the tune-up / clean-up is done so I can tell what difference the belt makes.

I'm near Palomar College here in SoCal, so I'm going to sign up for there beginning woodworking class, as well as join the San Diego woodworkers group.

Looking forward to a hobby where I can have something to show for my money :)

[Charles Modica]

Before giving up on the fence if it gives you alignment problems, make sure it is adjusted so the front side clamps down on the rail before the rear hook of the fence grabs the rear rail. It's an easy adjustment to make. This assumes the Jetlock fence on your saw is like mine. Can't really tell from the pictures but it appears the same from the front. If the rear hook grabs first it may keep the front clamps from pulling the fence straight.

The DVD I have uses the same fence and they had a tip to press the fence on the front before locking it down, as this helps square it up.

The fence really is not that bad, however after spending time this weekend at the local Rockler and checking out the Bies and its equivalents (in terms of approach), I've decided that the deal I was offered on the Bies is a worthy investment.

I can tell you that when I sell this saw, the stock fence will go back on, and I will take the Bies to the next saw.

Charlie

[Chuck Lenz]

I had already planned on upgrading the switch, though I had read some where that you had to match the switch to the motor.

Isn't a switch a switch, as long as it will handle the 120VAC it's wired for?
Charles, my shop is my two stall garage that I still park vehicles in, so when I'm done with woodworking for the day I unplug and take the motor off of my tablesaw so I can wheel it up against a wall. When I buy a paddle switch I'd like to buy one that has the same plug for the motor. I'm guessing only Delta would have that.

[glenn bradley]

Sp, I'll see how true the saw is, then take the top off. I'm less concerned about it looking clean and pretty under the table as much as I'm sure the crud and junk contribute to the lack of the adjustment cranks being smooth throughout their range.

Sounds like your on track Charles. Mechanical function is more important than 'pretty'. No matter how clean it is, you're gonna bury it in sawdust during your first cut, eh? :) . You've also got the right approach in that items you buy for this saw can be transferable to another saw.

You've probably already looked this stuff up but in a simplified explanation:
- True the blade to the miter slot (always use the same slot and even the same area along the length of the slot for all measurements) by adjusting the trunnions.

- True the fence to the miter slot.

Those two steps are 90% of your setup. If you're like me you will find you leave your blade 90* to the table 90% of the time. On contractor saws there is a tendency for the blade to 'heel' when tilted at an angle. This results from the weight of the motor on the rest of of the assembly.

Depending on how beefy everything is this may be a minor thing (a little burning on angled cuts) or major (binding, stalling, kickback). There are methods to cure this through shimming the top and so forth. I have never done this and so will not offer advice.

P.s. I forgot to mention PALs and I don't think anyone else offered these up either. These are about $20 and make adjusting table mounted trunnions soooo much easier. Your probably after item 3154 or the like. Other folks sell these as well. The ones you need are based on bolt diameter among other things. Unlike some of your other upgrades, unless you get lucky these will not be much use on a different saw. For example, my C-man used bolts, not studs. You'll have to scroll down to see them:
http://www.ptreeusa.com/tablesaw_products.htm

P.s.s. Palomar has a very well developed program. You're lucky to live nearby.