Jointer plane technique tips?

[Marcus Ward]

I love my #7 jointer plane, it's great for putting an awesome surface on a freshly sawn board but ... every time i do it I put a 5 deg bevel on it too. Can someone give me some tips that'll help me cut edges that are right angle to the face, or at least close? Thanks.

[Roy Wall]

Marcus,

Have you tried a shooting board? Takes the guess work out......and great for making a spring joint for glue up..

If gluing two edges, I often clamp them together and plane away.......any "tilt" that I put in them complements each other and still makes for a level, even glue up.

[Marcus Ward]

I tried making a shooting board tonight but I couldn't get the 'fence' exactly 90 deg from the face. Also At what point do you say hey this is too long for a shooting board. Jointing a 4' board seems like it'd be too big for a shooting board - however, I appreciate the tip.

I haven't been jointing for glueups yet due to my inability to produce anything even remotely resembling square, but I had to make a long tapering cut on the arm for my wife's morris chair and used the bandsaw and then planed it straight with the #7. Nobody would notice it's a few degrees off.

[Mark Stutz]

Marcus,
A couple things come to mind. I'm assuming the blade is square to the sole of the plane. I check very frequently for square with a small square and note where it is high. I try to take partil width shaving off the high side. Don't hold the front knob. Grasp the plane with your left thumb on the base of the plane behind the front knob and centered on the mouth. This automatically wraps your fingers around the side of the plane and allow them to touch the board making them into a fence of sorts. Hope this helps.

Mark

[Roy Wall]

Marcus,

You can make a shooting board 8' long if you want....just clamp it longways on the bench. Rip a base board about 12" wide, rip another maybe 9" wide....and glue them together. This is assuming you have a table saw to rip dead on at 90*.....

Use clamps to hold the stock and the jig to the bench.....make sense....?

[Clint Jones]

If your right handed try pushing the plane with your left hand and guiding with the plane by the knob with your right. It may be strange at first but you will get used to it. Keep a square handy and check frequently that the face is square with the edge.

Also have you considered a jointer fence? A vintage stanley, stearns or KK can be bought for around $50-$75 in user condition. I think their are manufacturers that make new fences.

[Alan Turner]

Marcus,
I assume you are having problems keeping the edge at 90 degrees to the face of the board. Mark's method of gripping the plane for edge planing is helpful, but here is a further tip. When you hone the iron, put a slight camber (curve) on it. I do this only with the finest stone I am using to hone, by pressing down more on the right corner for 3 or 4 strokes, and then on the left for a equal number of strokes. Then hold the iron up to the light with a straight edge across the edge to see the amount of curve created. Just a little is all that you want, and it should be balanced on each side, and equal. Your eyes will tell you this.

Then put the plane on the flat of a board and slowly advance the iron until it just begins to cut. Be sure that the cut is occurring only in the middle of the plane, and not at one of the edges. Use the lateral adjustment lever to get the shaving in the middle.

Now that the plane is set up, edge plane the board, using your first finger as the fence to assure that the middle of the board is at the middle of the iron. Get it smooth, and check with a square to see where you are in terms of 90 degrees.

If you are high on the left, then use you finger fence to move the plane across the edge so that the middle of the plane is centered on the left edge. Because of the curve of the iron, the left edge will then receive the heaviest cut, and that edge will come down, into square. Same if the edge is higher on the right, etc.

If your iron is well honed, this is both quick and accurate. This takes only a little practice, and is a traditional method for edge planing or jointing a board for an edge glued joint.

[harry strasil]

the simplest way is to just put another board under the one you want to joint and clamp them to your work bench with the edge on the top one proud of the bottom one and just lay the plane on its side and use the bench top as the shoot board for the plane. You can even use a third board for the plane to slide on if you want. Simple solutions for simple tasks. Don't overcomplicate things.

[Bill Houghton]

this does seem to be something that requires practice.

I do find that the height of the board edge matters - there's a natural height at which keeping square is easier.

[Derek Cohen]

.... and if using a straight blade, check that it is square in the plane.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[josh bjork]

I haven't been jointing for glueups yet due to my inability to produce anything even remotely resembling square, but I had to make a long tapering cut on the arm for my wife's morris chair and used the bandsaw and then planed it straight with the #7. Nobody would notice it's a few degrees off.

If the two boards being joined are clamped together, 90 degrees doesn't matter. Am I missing something?

[Marcus Ward]

No, you're not missing anything, I was just curious as to how to make square edges.

[Mark Stutz]

If the two boards being joined are clamped together, 90 degrees doesn't matter. Am I missing something?

Josh,
In theory it shouldn't matter at all. Personally I prefer the edges to be as square as I can make them, even though I typically clapthe two boards together. During glue up I have had some problems with slippage and uneven joints when clamping, and the only thing I have been able to trace it to was a "beveled joint". If you're using hide glue and a rubbed joint though, probably wouldn't notice it.

Mark

[Pam Niedermayer]

My solution was to replace the #7 with a wooden jointer, an ECE Primus 701, problem solved. I also use a C&W 30" jointer for very long work and a HNT Gordon try plane for shorter boards.

Pam

[Jim Nardi]

Kind of like training wheels. A block of wood and a couple of C clamps to make a fence might help till you get your fingers trained to hold the plane square.

[Marcus Ward]

I went back and practiced some more today and was able to produce a much better effort with the tips offered above. I appreciate the input.

Pam, how does that plane keep you from making a mistake. Does it have some sort of guide? Does the fact that it costs as much as 10 of my planes cause you to be more careful lest your significant other point out that a 300$ plane doesn't keep you from making mistakes? :)

[Robert Trotter]

Hi Marcus,

I you have had a lot of great advice but I'll add my 2 yen worth ( and its a beginner's 2 yen at that) I have been planing a lot recently, dimensioning some rough stock by hand for making a door frame for the shed. I am presuming you have a Stanley plane; mine are the LV LA jack and jointer. The stock I have been planing is 40mm wide so makes it a bit easier also than on thin stock but here is what I have been doing to get my sqaure edges. Oh yes, and I have been using a stright blade not curved.

I have a fence for the plane but I am practicing without the fence. The fence makes quick work once you get it set right. Anyway what I have been doing (and it working for me, not sure if it THE way to do it) is; on the high side, when checking with a square, I use the "finger fence" grip but place my thumb on the high side of the plane and exert a little bit more force on that side as I plane though but ensure I don't tilt the plane. (sort of like putting a slight curve on a blade) Then to level out the whole edge to 90, I gradually move my thumb to the cetre of the plane. Widening the new edge to full width.

Maybe it something more than that but that is what I am aiming at and has been working for me.

Good luck with jointing

Robert

[Bob Smalser]

I'd go with the turning square/C-clamp fence to train your hands what square feels like.

But if you're using jigs to sharpen with, I'd also toss them all out and teach myself to sharpen freehand. It's daily practice at exactly what you're having problems with. If you can't see the flat you just made on the cutting edge bevel with a stone and correct your hold to change it, how do you ever expect do get good at the same using the cutting tool on wood?

[Randy Klein]

You should check out David Charlesworth's video that shows how to square an edge with a cambered blade. It's pretty straight forward.

[Marcus Ward]

But if you're using jigs to sharpen with, I'd also toss them all out and teach myself to sharpen freehand. It's daily practice at exactly what you're having problems with. If you can't see the flat you just made on the cutting edge bevel with a stone and correct your hold to change it, how do you ever expect do get good at the same using the cutting tool on wood?


Ooooooh Mr. Smalser, that's a tough piece of advice to take. I respect your status as ninja handtool man but I don't know if I'm ready to give up the jigs. I've been enjoying the level of sharpness I've been able to acheive using sandpaper and the lee valley jig. I understand the reasons for suggesting it, however, and I will take it under advisement.

[Bob Smalser]

... that's a tough piece of advice to take...

What would you have done in another age when few of these items existed? Do you think there were more kindly old guys around to teach you? ;) Probably not, because a dominant feeling among old pros back in a world with fewer social safety nets was if they taught you what they knew, they'd risk losing their job because you could do the same work or close to it for less money. You got taught just enough to be an effective helper and you learned the rest by watching and practicing on your own.

Although I've been around these woodworking forums for a few years now, I understand some of this galoot-neander thinking less than I do the gizmo joinery and tool mania on the power tool side. Firing up the compressor and nail gun to drive 6 brads is absurd, but drawing a line between hand and power tool craftsmanship when so many neanders are totally dependent on and own every power tool, gizmo and training wheel ever made for sharpening hand tools is equally absurd.

Moreover, galoot groupthink seems to not only accept these anachronisms, but clamors for more. I can't understand this contradiction...hand sharpening is basic practice for hand tool control in woodworking. If you can't see the flat you just made on the cutting edge bevel using a stone and correct your hold to place the flat where you want it, how in do you ever expect to get good at doing the same thing using the cutting edge on wood?

You aren't planing the edge square because you aren't cambering the blade or don't have an adjustable fence or the latest video. Camber your scrub and smoother, don't waste effort cambering your jointer. Adjustable fences are for repeatability in bevels your hands don't do every day. Your cuts aren't square because your hands don't yet have a feel for square using that tool...or more likely, any tool. A length of turning square nailed to the plane bottom to function as a fence will help, so will checking every swipe with the try square and adjusting. But it'll all come a lot quicker if you exercise your hands and eyes in the control practice they need every time you sharpen a cutting edge.

You don't have to go galoot cold turkey. ;) But weaning yourself from these power tools and gizmos will be the greatest favor you can do for your woodworking.

[David Weaver]

I wanted to stick my neck out and say that I hand jointed 12 highly figured curly maple boards that needed to be glued as panels a couple of months ago. I am a rank amateur as defined as it gets. It took me a while to get the first board right - less to get the next one right, and less to get the last one right.

Anyway, I wanted to stick my neck out, but for whatever reason, I didn't feel like getting shot apart if I was wrong and my jointing success was just in my head - but now that bob says "it's better", I don't really have to stick my neck out.

At this point, after that session, I can't joint a board on a long bed jointer nearly as accurately as I can joint it with a #8 Lie Nielsen with no guide.

What I learned from the session:
* get a long enough straight edge to check the board
* get a good try square so you know what square is on the board
* get a pencil to mark the high spots once you've gotten the board jointed to what you feel is level
* make sure you have the board securely held in place and make sure you can get your body mechanics set so you can drive the plane forward without rolling it from side to side.
* If you're high on the right side at the beginning of the board and the left in the middle and the right on the other end, either move the plane toward the high spots when you use it (left or right on the board so it's taking more of a cut where the high spot is - because of the balance of the tool), or use thumb pressure on the front instead of putting your hand on the knob and put more thumb pressure on the side of the top of the plane body where you want the cutting to happen
* apply all of the pressure to the front of the plane until the back of the plane is on the wood, and apply all of the pressure to the tote when the front of the plane heads off the piece you're jointing.
* do most of the work in stop shavings and clean the whole thing up with a few through shavings.

It doesn't take that long, and within a few boards, you'll find that you can just naturally make the edge of the board square - pretty close to it, and you'll have little work to do marking the "high spots" where the board isn't square. It's as intuitive as it gets, and it just becomes natural.

I don't know why anyone would want to watch a 1-hour video about it (I did that, but can't remember what was on it). The only thing I recall about the video was the idea of stop shavings. I forget the rest, and it sounded a whole lot more complicated than it really is.

Just get some boards and start doing it - you'll be surprised how easy it is.

I no longer use a power jointer at all unless I really have a lot to hog off. Who wants to deal with the tearout and the chatter?

The learning curve on jointing boards is nothing like it is for cutting dovetails to look like a professional did them. You'll be jointing them properly your first session if you take control of what you're doing and think about what you want the result to be.

And I'm just a beginner - imagine how easy it is for an experienced craftsman to do it.

By the way, my power-tool junkie WW buddy who has two different ways to joint boards with power tools is now edge jointing them by hand, too - even though he has a custom specially machined router table jointer fence and a Delta DJ-20. He refuses to use hand tools until you can prove to him that a hand tool will provide better quality results than a machine tool.

[Randy Klein]

You aren't planing the edge square because you aren't cambering the blade or don't have an adjustable fence or the latest video. Camber your scrub and smoother, don't waste effort cambering your jointer. Adjustable fences are for repeatability in bevels your hands don't do every day. Your cuts aren't square because your hands don't yet have a feel for square using that tool...or more likely, any tool. A length of turning square nailed to the plane bottom to function as a fence will help, so will checking every swipe with the try square and adjusting. But it'll all come a lot quicker if you exercise your hands and eyes in the control practice they need every time you sharpen a cutting edge.

You don't have to go galoot cold turkey. ;) But weaning yourself from these power tools and gizmos will be the greatest favor you can do for your woodworking.

Bob, I'm confused. You apparently diss my suggestion of watching a video, yet say that in the olden days you learned by watching a master and practicing. How's that different from watching a master on a video and then practicing? I don't have a master woodworker in my garage I can view, but I can watch one on my computer. How's that different?

Also, are you suggesting that cambering (a very slight camber) a jointer blade is a gizmo? All it does is allow you good control on planing down the high side of an edge. Is that somehow cheating?

[Marcus Ward]

Wow! Did I just get flamed by Smalser? Awesome!

Mr. Smalser, I see your point. I have a lot of planes to sharpen so I'll give it a go and see how it turns out. I guess what you're saying is if you're going to dabble in the world of hand tools you have to stand firmly in that world and embrace the concepts that are a part of it in order to achieve real results, instead of just dipping your toe in and trying some things without learning them all. I understand now. I used to teach photography and there are similar situations.

[Bob Smalser]

Bob, I'm confused.

I'm not suggesting watching someone else isn't useful, nor am I disabusing anything but ideas. I'm suggesting that it won't help a beginner's dilemma much, nor will cambering his plane iron when he doesn't yet have a good feel for square, plumb and level.

Moreover, watching an old hand who has trained and trusted his hands and eyes for decades has it's drawbacks, as he works much faster than you should, his tools are tuned differently than yours, he has and perhaps is using tools you don't need yet, and he takes dozens of shortcuts without thinking that a beginner shouldn't....even when he's trying to orient what he's doing to the basics. He doesn't really need the try square in edge jointing, and when he uses it to demonstrate for you he isn't using it as often as you should. He doesn't need to clamp a fence on his jointer the first time out. You do. His plane's already adjusted to the task. Yours probably isn't. He doesn't need to mark all 4 faces of the board to make a good cut. You do. He doesn't need a bevel gage set upright to guide plumb. You do. He can sight straight and flat within furniture tolerances. You should be using aids like winding sticks. And we're not even into how to do something moderately difficult like gaging the proportions that achieve grace, determining adequate scantling size or spiling or fairing a curve yet....

I'm only suggesting that it's you that has to train your body to the basics of square, plumb and level, that nobody else can do it for you, and the best method I know of to get there from here is the one most ignored by galoots in favor or power tools and crutches. ;)

[Bill Brehme]

[quote=Marcus Ward;664127]Wow! Did I just get flamed by Smalser? Awesome!


Did ya say ya want some more???:confused: Well heres some more!!!:eek:

Heres a link to another to another neander a$$-chewing!!!

Roy comes out w/ both barrels blazing in in this one... http://www.pbs.org/wws/schedule/26season_video.html click on "The Spirit of Woodcraft" video.:D

[Marcus Ward]

Yeah I saw that last week. It was brilliant, I watched it twice.

[Eddie Darby]

Simplest way ..........

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=41716&cat=1,41182