buying an incra jig. need advice

[keith ouellette]

I was looking at the Incra LS 25 super system. The video on the incra web sight seemed pretty convinsing but it will cost a little less than $400. I have found an incra jig ultra I could get for $100 but it is an older design and doesn't come with the split wonder fence. Do any of you have any suggestions.

[Bill Arnold]

I've had the Incra LS 25" Super System for several years. It has met all my expectations and then some. I balked at the price initially, but picked it up at The Woodworking Shows event and got a little discount. Since purchasing it, I've added a few items like stops, etc. Woodpecker's, Inc., has been a great organization to work with on add-ons for specific applications.

:)

[keith ouellette]

Bill, do you know anything about the incra jig ultra?

[John Lucas]

Keith,

http://www.woodpeck.com/media/ultrajig.jpg

Here is the picture of the Incra Ultra from the Woodpecker site. I have been using it for years. As far as I amconcerned it has always worked very well. I prefer the solid fence to the split fence of the later versions. The new "LS" stands for lead screw which they adopted to replace their plastic or nylon gear teeth. While the LS looks sleek, I have never had a problem with the nylon teeth not working. I think you can't go wrong with your purchase assuming it works well. You can visually inspect the teeth. they are replaceable but I doubt you will need to. Also, you should have the fence movement checked. It should go its entire range smoothly and lock down at any point along the way. Lastly, make sure you get the instruction book and all the templates or you will have to buy a set. That will be 29.95 for a complete set. ALso, your fence should include the vertical fixture shown on the right of the fence and the stop block, red piece on left of fence. Those are critical parts of joint making.
Hope this helps.

[Jimmy Seckel]

I was looking at the Incra LS 25 super system. The video on the incra web sight seemed pretty convinsing but it will cost a little less than $400. I have found an incra jig ultra I could get for $100 but it is an older design and doesn't come with the split wonder fence. Do any of you have any suggestions.

You can get a brand new one on Amazon with the wonder fence for around 200 dollars. With the special they are running right now. You need to add this engraver http://www.amazon.com/Dremel-290-01-Stroke-Engraver-Template/dp/B0000302YN/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-6688615-2565567?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1190473802&sr=8-1 to your cart with the Incra system then type "BIT20OFF" in the coupon box and you will recieve approximately 45% off the price listed.

[Jason Beam]

Keith,

I've had both the Ultra 16 and the LS 25 Super System. The LS 25 is the system I currently own. I replaced the Ultra 16 wit it almost 2 years ago and love it.

The Ultra 16 is a GREAT GREAT system. It has a handful of quirks, and not having the split fence does pose a couple challenges. Here are a few thoughts on the Ultra:

Rack & Pinion
The blue/black plastic racks that are the heart of the accuracy for the Ultra system are TAN-FASTIC (sic). There's just one thing to be careful with them: If the carriage and the arm aren't properly aligned or you happen to catch the racks "mid-tooth" you can snap off a tooth fairly easily. I owned mine for 2 years and probably lost 3 teeth. It didn't affect the operation, but would eventually if I used it heavily and broke enough teeth.

The biggest trick I'd found for reducing the chances is making sure that the carriage and the arm move perfectly. When you lock the arm, if it raises or changes elevation at all, things aren't quite aligned. The idea is to get those two racks moving parallel to one another. It usually involves putting togetheer some knid of spacer under the carriage that keeps everything aligned.

This factor was #1 in my reasons for upgrading to the LS when I did. The lead screw mechanism of the LS doesn't have this problem mostly because the parts are metal, but also because they're round. There's more tolerance built in because of that. It also just felt sturdier to me. Metal over plastic, i guess.

Backlash/Micro Adjust
You don't have to worry much about backlash with either system, really. There's just something about the way the micro adjust feature works on the Ultra. To micro adjust, the carriage clamp is wide open, and a smaller sub-clamp is engaged and you turn the knob at the end of the carriage. Once complete, you close the main clamp which releases the micro-adjust clamp. It's nifty, but it strikes me as odd. It just feels like too many moving pieces.

One other thing with it is that the micro adjust knob travels - which means if you do a lot of sneaking up on the bit, eventually you'll have to reset the knob. Think of it like using a bolt for micro adjusting - the bolt's only so long and you have only so much travel in the micro adjustment feature. Eventually you'll bottom out that bolt if you primarily adjust in one direction over the other (toward or away). This is hard to describe, but it can be a nuisance to spin back to "zero". It works great, but it's less convenient.

The LS micro adjust is always available without releasing or engaging any clamps. I like this method a little better. It also has infinite travel, which I really like. It means never having to "unwind" the micro adjust knob. Sounds minor but when you're dealing with such high caliber tools, the devil's in the details.

Oh, and one of the other big things for me was that the micro adjust is right up by the fence, instead of over by the carriage. This position is much handier than way out on the other end. I'm almost always sighting down the fence or "feeling" where the bit is with scrap when I'm micro adjusting. On the Ultra, it could sometimes be a juggling act to shift back and forth. The Ultra 16 isn't THAT bad, but if I'd had the 24, it would have been too far away to be convenient. Another nice feature is the 1/1000" detents in the micro adjust. Every "bump" in the rotation is .001". It can also be disabled so the knob is fully analog, too.

As for the split fence ... when I had my ultra, i never needed the offset feature of the split fence (one face sticking out futher than the other). But i constantly needed to bury my bit in the fence and that 1"x1" notch in the stock fence was almost always too small. I eventually built a 3"x3" square tube of MDF to clamp onto the fence so I could bury my bit. It's really needed. The ability to customize the bit gap is HUGE and you'll eventually need it.

I really truly loved my Ultra 16. But I love my LS25 SS even more, far and away. I'd take either if I had to, but the added features of the LS super system are worth every cent. :)

MAN - it's been a couple days since I've talked so much ... i guess there was a clog that just released! Hope it helps! :)

[keith ouellette]

Now that I've been doing more looking I see th Ts Ls which is for the table saw. I wonder if the fence is the same as on the ultra jig and I could use it for my router at the end of my saw without any additional purchase

[John Ricci]

Keith, I would jump on that Ultra for $100! I have the 24" Ultra with the Intellifence (split/offset) and all of the accessories for same. The new units are slick but as others have said, I have never had any problem with what I have and see no reason for an upgrade.

J.R.

[Jim O'Dell]

If Jimmy is right and the Ultra can be had for 200.00 following his link, I'd jump on it. I didn't try to put it through and see what it priced out at, but I bet he did. I got mine for around 270.00 or so about 3 years ago. I started assembling it this morning. Very well made. From the posts above, I'd say it would be worth the extra bucks over the 100.00 one. Jim.

[Jimmy Seckel]

If Jimmy is right and the Ultra can be had for 200.00 following his link, I'd jump on it. I didn't try to put it through and see what it priced out at, but I bet he did. I got mine for around 270.00 or so about 3 years ago. I started assembling it this morning. Very well made. From the posts above, I'd say it would be worth the extra bucks over the 100.00 one. Jim.

Yep sure did, I even ordered one :) I got the 17" LS Super System, total cost with the dremel was 206.58 shipped. Only problem is estimated shipping is October 17th so i will be waiting awhile :mad: The price makes it well worth the wait though. The 25" version is only about 20 dollars more than the 17" so I imagine it should price out right around 220 dollars or so after the 45% discount.

The trick is combining discounts, they have a 25% off all router accessories, then they also have a 20% off with purchase of a power tool. The little 15 dollar dremel engraver classifies as a power tool so you end up getting 45% off!

BTW it wasn't the Ultra that is the cheaper one, it is the LS with the wonder fence, here is the link to the one I purchased: http://www.amazon.com/Incra-LS17WFNCSYS-17-Inch-System-Presses/dp/B0007UQ2CI/ref=pd_bbs_3/104-6688615-2565567?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1190516335&sr=8-3

[keith ouellette]

We both procrastinate way to much. 3 years is a long time to wait to use a jig. By the way, the one I was going to buy localy had already sold when I called back about it so I am going to have to buy new but now I am thinking of getting a Ts for the table saw and mounting the router at the end. Someone else showed pictures of his and it was a nice set up.

[Rick Schubert]

I placed my order for the Incra LS 25 super system and the Dremel engraving tool last night. Total cost was $227.04. What a deal! Thanks for calling this to our attention.

Rick

[Mike Heaney]

Don't want to hi-jack the thread, but I too had been procrastinating on an upgrade to my Craftsman "professional" router table system. Thanks for the advice- I've just ordered the 25" system and the Dremel (although it seems I might have to wait a month, for $227 all in it seemed worth it!).

I really like the look of the incra router plate, and probably their table top, but I have been struggling to find places to purchase. The amazon reseller who has the table tops wants about $70 for shipping :eek:!

So, my question is- do any of you have recommendations for suppliers of Incra accessories- such as the table tops and router plates?

hope this is not too intrusive to the thread, but I thought it was connected enough

thanks

Mike

[Jimmy Seckel]

Don't want to hi-jack the thread, but I too had been procrastinating on an upgrade to my Craftsman "professional" router table system. Thanks for the advice- I've just ordered the 25" system and the Dremel (although it seems I might have to wait a month, for $227 all in it seemed worth it!).

I really like the look of the incra router plate, and probably their table top, but I have been struggling to find places to purchase. The amazon reseller who has the table tops wants about $70 for shipping :eek:!

So, my question is- do any of you have recommendations for suppliers of Incra accessories- such as the table tops and router plates?

hope this is not too intrusive to the thread, but I thought it was connected enough

thanks

Mike

I just bought a http://www.jointech.com/smartliftdigital.htm to go along with it, the digital makes using the Incra a breeze as you only have to do your test cuts once to get proper depth then mark the bit and everytime you want to make a joint just zero out the scale and raise it up to the number you've written on the bit. Pretty handy and saves quite a bit of time. The 329.00 summer sale is already a great price but you can get an even better price at http://eagleamerica.com/product.asp?pn=415-6600 299.00 for the smartlift :eek:

I have been doing alot of research since the purchase however I still haven't found a great deal on a tabletop so I am considering building my own.

If you are concerned about shipping and decide to purchase the smartlift you can get free shipping on it and a tabletop at jointech (anything over $400 gets free shipping). They have solid phenolic tops which look nice but it's hard for me to justify spending 150 plus for a tabletop I can make for less than 50 dollars.

If anyone else has any advice on the best size and price for a pre-made tabletop please chime in as I am interested as well!

Thanks

[JayStPeter]

The Incra ultra and ultra lite fences are fine for joinery, but limited as a general purpose router table fence. I had an Ultra that I modified heavily to make into a general purpose router table fence. There were still some things I didn't like about it and wound up replacing it with a jointech. I got a good deal and after selling the Incra it wound up cheaper than just getting a wonderfence, but that would've been a good solution also. If your plan is to use it for joinery and have another fence on the table also then disregard. It is very good for that.

[Ed Beers]

Don't want to hi-jack the thread, but I too had been procrastinating on an upgrade to my Craftsman "professional" router table system. Thanks for the advice- I've just ordered the 25" system

Hmm, I just ordered a 17 but I see you guys are ordering the 25. My understanding is that the 17 or 25 dimension is the maximum distance between the face of the fence and the router bit. The 17" would allow setting the fence about 15" further than I ever have in the past but I can see where I might want a little more for some uses of the incra. Does the 25" option add any useful capability or just stick out past the back of the router table and eat more of my shop space?

[keith ouellette]

If you were making a chest (or anything else) with dove tails the extra length would be very handy. Thats why you have larger dovetail jigs but with this you would be able to flip the workpiece over and do up to 48in. (At least I hope that is how it works.)

[Jason Beam]

It CAN work that way, Keith. The real trick is if you have symmetrical layout from the center on both halves. Even without that, it's still doable, you'd probably just have to use one of the "measuring" tapes instead of their pre-done layout templates. Not a nightmare, just needs some good planning up front.

[keith ouellette]

thankx to everyone for all the info. I want to get one of my tool purchases perfect with no problems without it costing to much. Money does solve a lot of problems.

[Ed Beers]

I'm just assembling my new router table now. I was about ready to build the top, which commits me to a router location, when the Amazon deal came around. So given that my top is is 28" deep and I have ordered the 17" locater, how far from the front edge of my router table do I want the router spindle?

Looking at the pictures I'm guessing:

positioner bracket 5"
positioner travel 17"
fence depth 2"
-------
24" total

28" - 24" = 4" from the front of the table to the spindle of the router.

I don't think my router table cabinet design (it's loosely based on the NYW one) will allow that and I think I want a little more table up front for work support so I'm looking at around 7" from the front edge which would give 14" of travel. My top is going to be plain mdf with the router bolted directly to so I won't have a lot invested in it and it won't be a disaster if I have to replace. it.

Obviously it would be better to wait for the Incra delivery (late October) to do measurements but that isn't going to work out.

[Raymond Fries]

There is a Woodcraft store in my city and I am ordering the complete router table set from them for the same price that I can get it from Woodpeckers and I do not have to pay the shipping charges. :o

If you are close to one, talk to them.

[Jimmy Seckel]

Hmm, I just ordered a 17 but I see you guys are ordering the 25. My understanding is that the 17 or 25 dimension is the maximum distance between the face of the fence and the router bit. The 17" would allow setting the fence about 15" further than I ever have in the past but I can see where I might want a little more for some uses of the incra. Does the 25" option add any useful capability or just stick out past the back of the router table and eat more of my shop space?

I can't say for sure because I haven't recieved mine yet but the way I understand it is that a 25" arm will require 50" of table space to have no hangover at the end where you bolt the arm down. That is way to big for me. You can put it on a smaller table but then the end of the rig hangs off the table which I didn't like. I will have trouble just dealing with the table size required for the 17" version as I believe it needs to be around 36". Which brings me to a question, does anyone that has the 17" rig know if the entire thing will fit on a 36" table without hanging off the end?




There is a Woodcraft store in my city and I am ordering the complete router table set from them for the same price that I can get it from Woodpeckers and I do not have to pay the shipping charges. :o

If you are close to one, talk to them.

Amazon has free shipping and I doubt you will get close to this price through Woodcraft! Might want to see about ordering the rig from Amazon and just getting the other parts to complete the set from Woodcraft you will probably save yourself close to 200 dollars!

[Ed Beers]

I will have trouble just dealing with the table size required for the 17" version as I believe it needs to be around 36". Which brings me to a question, does anyone that has the 17" rig know if the entire thing will fit on a 36" table without hanging off the end?

The package router table from Woodpecker's is 27" x 32" with the router set back 10" along the 32" axis (22" of table behind the router spindle). So I assume you should be OK with a 36" table if you can locate your router freely.

The manual is online at incra.com but it doesn't really give enough info to design an ideal router table if you don't have the unit in hand. They do mention 19.75" spindle center to positioner base with a minimum of 4" of the base on the table for a minimum of 23.75" spindle center to back of table. They don't say how long the positioner base is. Anybody know?

I'm going to take some measurements and look at a couple of options for mine. I may install mine facing "sideways". I have a couple of questions for someone who has one:

1) If the distance from the router spindle to the positioner base is 2" less than ideal, do I just lose positioning range or will I have difficulty calibrating the unit?

2) Can the dust collection go on either side?

3) What is the maximum distance from the spindle to the side of the table if the dust collection fitting on the fence is to be installed pointing down?

You guys with the 25" uints on order might want to get out your tape measures lest you be using your hacksaws later. These things seem to be bigger than they look.

[Mike Heaney]

Hmm, I just ordered a 17 but I see you guys are ordering the 25. My understanding is that the 17 or 25 dimension is the maximum distance between the face of the fence and the router bit. The 17" would allow setting the fence about 15" further than I ever have in the past but I can see where I might want a little more for some uses of the incra. Does the 25" option add any useful capability or just stick out past the back of the router table and eat more of my shop space?

Ed, I offer these comments as a soon to be rather than current owner- while the end of the thing will potentially extend a long way beyond the back of the table, it will only do that when I am cutting something particularly wide/deep. The rest of the time, there is no reason that I can't just move it so that it sits all the way "unextended" and so have little hangover at the back. I figure if I am doing a wide project- like a blanket chest, then I will be happy to move my router table for the project and so the space will not bother me, for normal tasks on the router table, then it will stick out a bit, but not double the length- basically I think I have enough room to cope with this, and like the idea of having the extra width, since my dovetail jig is a PC and limits me to 12" boxes unless I get creative with mounting the jig and using it freehand- at which stage I would rather cut hand dovetails. All that said, I like cutting hand dovetails, so didn't go for the bigger Incra specifically for this purpose, but rather to have the capacity if I should need it- basically following the adage that you can't have too much capacity- "BUILD IT AND THEY WILL COME!!!" :)

I'm sure the smaller one is perfect for 98% of the time- and may be more convenient if space is a big consideration.

Now, just counting the days until Amazon delivers...

btw- anyone with ideas on what to use the little Dremel for? I engrave nothing at the moment!

Mike

[Ed Beers]

Mike, If I understand things correctly, you will need 24" from the center of the spindle to the back of the table to fully utilize the capacity of the 17 option. To fully utilize the 25 option you would 32". I'm struggling to get 24" with my existing cabinet base and a fresh top. After watching the demo videos from the incra website, I also suspect that clamping a 24" board to the right angle fixture is the sort of thing you only do once. But I don't really know since mine is a month away from arrival.

[Mike Heaney]

Ed,

Agree on the distance backwards- hence my interest in the big offset incra table top (If I remember correctly its 43" deep). I thought your comment on the 24" board was interesting- the same thing has crossed my mind too. I will be interested to hear comments from existing owners on how they end up using these. I'm mainly excited about getting a fence I can set accurately and repeatedly- the nudge and measure and nudge and throw away set up annoys me no end with my current set up. I may end up using all the clever attachments more than I plan on at the moment! as I can see a demand for birthday and solstice presents may force me into the cute box making business too- there are limits on how often you can give someone a bread board as a gift!

I see that both of the incra systems have soared up the sales rank at Amazon now- so there are going to be a lot of new owners out there- seems like an ideal time for all you Jointech and Incra experts out there to start showing your work and sharing your expertise with us. I've got a month to wait for mine to arrive, sounds like Ed and others are in a similar boat, and I'm sure we would all love to hear from existing owners on what to expect, what to avoid, and any special tricks you care to share.

best wishes

Mike

[JayStPeter]

Not to curb anyones enthusiasm, but 24" dovetails would be real difficult (not to mention the theoretical 50"ers). I believe the templates are around 12". IIRC, the large sled is around 9"wx6"tall. If you clamp a really big piece on it, it is extremely difficult to avoid tilting the piece in one direction or another.
If we're talking drawer sides here, the height of the drawer is limited by the travel of the jig. So, in theory you could do 25" tall drawers with the 25" jig. More realistically, the sled will be very difficult to keep stable much over the 10-12" template size. The depth of the drawer, which equals the height of the pieces when standing on edge getting DTed, is also a factor in being able to control the piece. I've done some drawers that were 10" high and 30" deep. That's a pretty big piece for the jig to handle and required much care to complete. I'm not saying it's impossible, it's just clearly not what the jig was designed for.

When I moved from the 16" Incra ultra to a Jointech, I got the 12" Jointech. I have it mounted on a board that mounts to t-track. Since my router table is 26"x48" I can move the fence so that I can run @30" pieces through it, but still only have 12" of "incremental" travel. I've never really missed the extra travel.

Overall, these fences are great. They do a great job on sliding DTs and as general purpose fences. But when using the sled, the size of part you can realisitically put through is limited.

You guys got some great deals for sure. You'll be happy with your purchases. The repeatability and adjustments by thousandth capability makes mine a go-to tool in my shop.

Jay

[Sam Shank]

Make sure you get the wonder fence. It is an add on fence that bolts to the included fence. It allows accurate split fence operations. You can also adjust either side of the fence in or out for jointing type operations. This is a must have upgrade as far as I'm concerned.

[Ed Beers]

Make sure you get the wonder fence. It is an add on fence that bolts to the included fence. It allows accurate split fence operations. You can also adjust either side of the fence in or out for jointing type operations. This is a must have upgrade as far as I'm concerned.

We will be as it is included as part of the "LS Super System" set.

Is there any chance you could drop a tape measure on the positioner base and let me know how long it is?

Ed

[Guy Germaine]

Jay, can you elaborate a little on the general purpose limitations you're talking about? I've had my 24" Ultra for over a year, and haven't run into any limitations yet. I'm just curious. This will give me something to look out for in the future.

[JayStPeter]

Guy,

You won't have the limitations if you have the Wonderfence. Otherwise, the fence itself is the problem. It has a tiny opening that can't spin big bits (ie rail/stile & panel raisers). I owned mine before the wonderfence existed. So, I expanded the opening and made all the mods detailed in Dizzys shop pages http://home.pacbell.net/jdismuk/routertable.html. This made it a general purpose fence capable of spinning 3.5" panel raising bits. But, somehow I wound up bending two separate fences over time. The expanded opening must have acted as a weak spot or something since I haven't heard of others having this problem and didn't abuse the thing. I'm not entirely certain that I didn't receive the second one already bent and not notice it until later. I wound up getting a third fence, making the mods, and selling the entire thing. It wound up being less cost to me to sell the whole thing and buy a whole new one than to buy a wonderfence upgrade.

I made the decision to move on to a Jointech partially due to the extremely heavy duty fence on it and partially due to the leadscrew design. By then the wonderfence was out, but the LS positioner wasn't.

Again, I've never heard of anyone else having the problem with bent fences. So, I wouldn't advise anyone to use that as a basis of decision. I still have Incra stuff (miter gauge and ultra lite positioner on my bandsaw) and think it is very nice stuff with excellent customer support.

[Ed Beers]

Are specific dovetail bits required to make joints with this jig or can I use whatever I have around?

Does it make sense to buy one of the Freud sets while this deal is still going on?

Even at the discounted price it still doesn't make sense if I really only need one or two bits.

[Bill Arnold]

... I will be interested to hear comments from existing owners on how they end up using these. I'm mainly excited about getting a fence I can set accurately and repeatedly ...
As far as a router table itself, this is what I built as part of my shop addition.

http://bbarnold.com/images/shop-ga/10TS_Rtr1.jpg

The only negative thing I've ever found was the inability to use the extended stop bars with the Wonder Fence. They fit inside a channel in the regular fence. Since it's a snap to remove and replace the Wonder Fence, I view this as a very minor inconvenience. I use the stops when cutting mortises in mating pieces prior to joining with loose tenons.

The table in which I mounted the router lift is 75" long, so there's ample room for the 25" Incra LS. I embedded six 1/4-20 threaded inserts in the table for the Incra base. I can also use the Incra on the table saw via six threaded inserts to the right of the saw table.

:)

[Bill Arnold]

Are specific dovetail bits required to make joints with this jig or can I use whatever I have around?

Does it make sense to buy one of the Freud sets while this deal is still going on?

Even at the discounted price it still doesn't make sense if I really only need one or two bits.
There are seven different dovetail bits specified by Incra depending on which template you use. In addition, four straight bits are specified for box joints.

[Jimmy Seckel]

The package router table from Woodpecker's is 27" x 32" with the router set back 10" along the 32" axis (22" of table behind the router spindle). So I assume you should be OK with a 36" table if you can locate your router freely.

The manual is online at incra.com but it doesn't really give enough info to design an ideal router table if you don't have the unit in hand. They do mention 19.75" spindle center to positioner base with a minimum of 4" of the base on the table for a minimum of 23.75" spindle center to back of table. They don't say how long the positioner base is. Anybody know?

I'm going to take some measurements and look at a couple of options for mine. I may install mine facing "sideways". I have a couple of questions for someone who has one:

1) If the distance from the router spindle to the positioner base is 2" less than ideal, do I just lose positioning range or will I have difficulty calibrating the unit?

2) Can the dust collection go on either side?

3) What is the maximum distance from the spindle to the side of the table if the dust collection fitting on the fence is to be installed pointing down?

You guys with the 25" uints on order might want to get out your tape measures lest you be using your hacksaws later. These things seem to be bigger than they look.


I've been researching this extensively for the last several days trying to figure out just how small I could go on the table because I am extremely space challenged, I don't have a garage or shop, so I have to keep all my tools inside the house! I came to the conclusion that the base is roughly ten inches on the incra then adding the 17" of travel you now have 27" from back of base to center of router bit then add another 3 or 4 inches for the wonderfence when added to the regular fence or so and space in front of the bit for work surface for table space in front of the bit and you've got over a 40" table!.

Look at this picture on Incras site, http://incra.com/images/rtf_combo2_zoom.jpg this is the 17 mounted on a 43" table!

Unfortunately this is way too big for me :mad: So I ended up cancelling the order and instead I ordered the smaller Jointech 12" clincher with 24" fence seen here: http://jointech.com/woodworking1.htm it's on sale for 249.00 marked down from 419.00 for their summer sale. I ended up getting the whole kit and kaboodle, 24x32 solid phenolic top, downdraft cabinet, legs, coping kit, and fence raiser for 546.00 with free shipping. Also ordered the digital smartlift from Eagle America for 299.00.

Man, this little 200 dollar deal of the century on Amazon has ended up costing me 850 dollars :eek:

Hope it is worth it!

[keith ouellette]

Not to curb anyones enthusiasm, but 24" dovetails would be real difficult (not to mention the theoretical 50"ers). I believe the templates are around 12". IIRC, the large sled is around 9"wx6"tall. If you clamp a really big piece on it, it is extremely difficult to avoid tilting the piece in one direction or another.
If we're talking drawer sides here, the height of the drawer is limited by the travel of the jig. So, in theory you could do 25" tall drawers with the 25" jig. More realistically, the sled will be very difficult to keep stable much over the 10-12" template size. The depth of the drawer, which equals the height of the pieces when standing on edge getting DTed, is also a factor in being able to control the piece. I've done some drawers that were 10" high and 30" deep. That's a pretty big piece for the jig to handle and required much care to complete. I'm not saying it's impossible, it's just clearly not what the jig was designed for.

When I moved from the 16" Incra ultra to a Jointech, I got the 12" Jointech. I have it mounted on a board that mounts to t-track. Since my router table is 26"x48" I can move the fence so that I can run @30" pieces through it, but still only have 12" of "incremental" travel. I've never really missed the extra travel.

Overall, these fences are great. They do a great job on sliding DTs and as general purpose fences. But when using the sled, the size of part you can realisitically put through is limited.

You guys got some great deals for sure. You'll be happy with your purchases. The repeatability and adjustments by thousandth capability makes mine a go-to tool in my shop.

Jay
What if you make your own 90 deg jig to keep the work piece square with the fence. You would need a large table to do this but do you think it would work.

[Bill Wyko]

I have 2 incra fences and love em' Here's a pic of a box which I recently built doing dd box joints. They make great quality tools and also have awsome customer service. You may contact them and discuss what uses you'll need it for and they'll be happy to help.

[Mike Heaney]

Just wanted to say a quick thankyou to everyone who has chimed in here so far to help us Incra newbies out. I'm sure there is a lot more to learn, but I am heading off to Scotland tomorrow am for a 10 day vacation, so I won't be able to comment until I return- and I felt a little rude leaving without saying thankyou!

Please keep the post going- I'll be thinking of shiny anodized finishes while I am in the pub with my old friends from the village where I grew up!

best wishes

Mike

[JayStPeter]

What if you make your own 90 deg jig to keep the work piece square with the fence. You would need a large table to do this but do you think it would work.

It wouldn't be impossible. But, keep in mind you're moving the piece over the bit while standing on edge. At some point the piece gets large enough that it is no longer reasonable to do so. You would also have to deal with the template itself, which is around 12". So, you either need to make a new longer one or do some thinking and planning on how to move the template multiple times during the process without ever missing by one 1/32" notch (which takes some effort to avoid without moving the template).
There are some freeware programs out on the web that help make custom templates. Maybe they could be used to make a longer template if your printer supports larger sheets of paper. This also answers someones questions about special bits because some of these programs allow you to enter the dimensions of your bit in. I haven't tried it with a non-standard bit (or larger template) so I can't elaborate.
As far as bits go, I bought the Whiteside set and have been happy with it. But, I can say that I've never even removed the wax from half of them. It may be worth getting the ones you will use separately.

[Ed Beers]

I think people are getting hung up on the difference between "dimensional" capacity and "practical" capacity. In theory, you could take a 4'x8' sheet of plywood, balance it on one end, clamp it to the little piece of aluminum that is the right angle fixture with 3' overhanging the table and start shoving it back and forth to cut dovetails. In practice things will go badly long before it is time to spin the board 180 degrees :(

[Jim O'Dell]

We will be as it is included as part of the "LS Super System" set.

Is there any chance you could drop a tape measure on the positioner base and let me know how long it is?

Ed

Sorry, Ed. I thought someone would answer. The base is 9" X 6 3/16" . Hope this isn't too late to help.
Woodpeckers shows the table for the 25" set up to be 53" X 32". I made my table 54" X 36" as I wanted a little more out front for doors that I will be routing the edges on. My original plans called for a removable section that would extend the front part out for bigger items. Maybe my 2nd table will incorporate this. Jim.

[keith ouellette]

It wouldn't be impossible. But, keep in mind you're moving the piece over the bit while standing on edge. At some point the piece gets large enough that it is no longer reasonable to do so. You would also have to deal with the template itself, which is around 12". So, you either need to make a new longer one or do some thinking and planning on how to move the template multiple times during the process without ever missing by one 1/32" notch (which takes some effort to avoid without moving the template).
There are some freeware programs out on the web that help make custom templates. Maybe they could be used to make a longer template if your printer supports larger sheets of paper. This also answers someones questions about special bits because some of these programs allow you to enter the dimensions of your bit in. I haven't tried it with a non-standard bit (or larger template) so I can't elaborate.
As far as bits go, I bought the Whiteside set and have been happy with it. But, I can say that I've never even removed the wax from half of them. It may be worth getting the ones you will use separately.

My idea involves a tall sturdy fence that would be moveable along the perpendicular line to the incra fence but stil be able to be fixed and would also move along paralel to the incra fence to move the workpiece over the cutter head. This way as the incra fence is moved back for each cut the workpiece can be repositioned against the fence and then moved paralel over the cutter. I can see it in my head but am not sure if I am explaining it well.

[Jimmy Seckel]

My idea involves a tall sturdy fence that would be moveable along the perpendicular line to the incra fence but stil be able to be fixed and would also move along paralel to the incra fence to move the workpiece over the cutter head. This way as the incra fence is moved back for each cut the workpiece can be repositioned against the fence and then moved paralel over the cutter. I can see it in my head but am not sure if I am explaining it well.

Not sure if the Incra has this available but the Jointech has a jumbo fenceplate that can be rotated vertically for supporting tall pieces and horizontally for long pieces. You probably could make something similiar out of wood if it's not available for the incra system.

http://jointech.com/Graphics/images/optaccess_vpf-jp_a.JPG http://jointech.com/Graphics/images/optaccess_vpf-jp_b.JPG

[glenn bradley]

. . . . about 3 years ago. I started assembling it this morning.

Thank you Jim, thank you. I feel so much better about how long its taken me to finish my shop wiring. :D

[keith ouellette]

Not sure if the Incra has this available but the Jointech has a jumbo fenceplate that can be rotated vertically for supporting tall pieces and horizontally for long pieces. You probably could make something similiar out of wood if it's not available for the incra system.

http://jointech.com/Graphics/images/optaccess_vpf-jp_a.JPG http://jointech.com/Graphics/images/optaccess_vpf-jp_b.JPG
That is not quite what I had in mind. From the picture it seems like the right angle fence that holds the workpiece is attached to the main fence. Am I correct? What I have in mind is a little larger ad moves along slots in an auxiliary table and allows the work piece to slide up against the main fence as it is moved with each adjustment.

[Jimmy Seckel]

That is not quite what I had in mind. From the picture it seems like the right angle fence that holds the workpiece is attached to the main fence. Am I correct? What I have in mind is a little larger ad moves along slots in an auxiliary table and allows the work piece to slide up against the main fence as it is moved with each adjustment.

Yep it attaches to the fence, I don't see how you could design something to slide on two axis and still be as accurate as the positioner system, seems like you would be re-engineering the whole rig so why even buy it in the first place? It would seem a whole lot easier and probably much cheaper to just buy a leigh jig or something else designed for large pieces if that is your primary source of work.

If you do come up with something I would be interested in seeing it though so post up some pics when your done!

[keith ouellette]

Yep it attaches to the fence, I don't see how you could design something to slide on two axis and still be as accurate as the positioner system, seems like you would be re-engineering the whole rig so why even buy it in the first place? It would seem a whole lot easier and probably much cheaper to just buy a leigh jig or something else designed for large pieces if that is your primary source of work.

If you do come up with something I would be interested in seeing it though so post up some pics when your done!

It is the positioner and main fence that is important for most work along with the wonder fence. There isn't a dove tail jig largw enough for what I had in mind. I am saving some money for a new ts ls with joinery package but I have some other things to build before I start on this new idea.

[Jim O'Dell]

Thank you Jim, thank you. I feel so much better about how long its taken me to finish my shop wiring. :D

If you ever need someone to point to on things like that, keep me in mind!!:eek::D I started my shop remodel 3 years ago this November. I've had a Delta 52-580 for over 3 years also...it's never been taken out of the box. :o:o I tend to buy things when they go on super close out savings if I have the cash available. As long as they don't rot, it saves some money in the long run. (52-580-Lowes close out for 209.00+tax) That's what I did with the Incra 25" Super System and Woodpecker PRL. Wish I could save enough money for a cabinet saw and wait for a deal! Jim.