Help with built-ins

[Les Spencer]

I am building an entertainment center flanked on both sides with book shelves from wall to wall and floor to ceiling. The floor is carpeted. Can I install right on the carpet? Should I put a layer of 3/4" ply over the carpet? Not sure what is the best way. Any help or suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks

[Brent Harral]

I think the "right" way is to pull back the carpet and I do when possible or extra cost willing...but have done lots of builtins right on top :rolleyes: Low pile carpet better of course, but have not had any kind of call back on those done on typical shag.

YMMV!

Good luck.

[Roland Chung]

Hi Les,

If you don't remove the carpet in that area, you will have to deal with the tack strips against the wall possibly holding the back of the cabinet up. Also, the pad and carpet may continue to crush over time and you might end up with a gap at the top of the ceiling and cabinet/crown.

It sounds like that set of cabinets will end up being there for the long haul - so would there be a problem with removing the carpet under the cabinets? If you think that you really want the carpet to be there for when you remove the cabinets, remember that the carpet will probably be a different color by then and will certainly be crushed. I just read of a tip where you can get rid of the crush marks by laying a wet/damp towel over the area and then ironing it. The steam uncrushes the fibers and then you just ruffle it up by hand.

[Ed Peters]

is not in the cards you should make provisions for a connection between the tall flanking cabinets and the wall studs to maintain plumb.

Ed

I should also mention that as a woodworker, I would not feel qualified to modify/remove carpet in a customers home. This should either be their responsibility or an amount would be included in the commission to cover sub-contracting to a skilled carpet installer for this project.

[David DeCristoforo]

There are a number of good reasons to remove the carpeting under permanently installed casework. But, be aware that you cannot simply cut the carpet out. Wall to wall carpet is "stretched" when it is installed and if you cut it, you will release the "tension" resulting in "slack" carpeting. The "right way" is to replace the tack strip that is currently against the wall with new tack strip in front of the casework's base or toe kick and then re-stretch the carpet. If you don't know how to do this it's worth hiring a carpet layer to come in and do it for you. It's not hard but it does require the right tools and you can "over stretch" the carpet, causing the carpet fibers to tear.

[Mike Goetzke]

Years ago we had a 5-piece set that was tall/heavy. We installed it on carpet. The cabinets came with these special clamps that tie the individual units together. It took some doing but I was able to line up the units. I have since installed a hardwood floor in the room and it made the installation much easier. I like your idea of maybe designing a flat bottom to distribute the load on the carpet better.

Mike

[Nathan Conner]

Another "quick AND acceptable" way to do it (from an ex carpet-layer who's done this - but emphasis on the "ex") is to do the following:

Mark out the area where the EC will be going with chalk or tape. Then get a stapler (DuoFast is great, but anything small and powerful will work) and staple INSIDE that line about 1-2", ever 3-4". The carpet shouldn't buckle or wrinkle. Then, when you have your 3/4 rectangle of staples down, cut INSIDE that area with a new utility blade so that you can pull out the carpet, pad, tack strip (you can use a sharp chisel to chop it)
down to bare floor. Remove the leftover pad staples with a screwdriver or needle-nose, and you'll have a bare rectangle left, where the cab will sit.

Thus, the cabinet will still sit "on" the carpet, you won't have the tack bump to worry about, and if it's a bit out of level, you can staple back a small strip of carpet & pad along the wall so it's thoroughly level. This way, you won't have to re-stretch the carpet to a new piece of tack (which is a pain) or lose any of the stretch already there.

[Greg Dykes]

I agree with removing the carpet prior to installation. This will serve two purposes. One it will make it easier to align and shim the unit against the wall. Second, if the carpet is ever replaced it will be easier to make the connection of the carpet to the unti look correct.

I strongly disagree with tacking the carpet to the floor and then cutting it off. I am not wanting to ruffle any feathers here but it has been my experience this would leave a very unprofessional look.

1. Tacking the carpet to the floor is "assuming" that the carpet is laid over a wood sub-floor. If the sub-floor is concrete this method will not work.

2. Depending on what "type" of carpet it is, you may cause a dippling effect in the carpet that is very noticable.

3. When you staple the carpet to the sub-floor the edge (end) of the carpet will tend to roll up and be noticable.

If this was an "acceptable" practice do you think installers would waste thier time installing tack strip when they could just shoot some staples around the room?

My advice would be to do the following:
1. Cut out the carpet leaving approx. 2-4" extending beyond the footprint of your cabinet. Roll it back and install your fixture.

2. Once your fixture is in install tack strip a fingers width from the unit. If the sub-floor is wood, use tack strip designed for wood and nail it down. If the sub-floor is concrete, cut the tack strip in approx. 12" pieces and use a poly adhesive (I use PL2000 or Locktite) to glue it down removing the nails prior to gluing. The reason for cutting it in strips is that tack strip tends to bow a lot and is harder to keep straight while gluing. Believe it or not, nailing tack strip into cured concrete is skill learned through lots of practice. One slip of the hammer and you ahve damaged your new cabinet. (tack strip has or should have arrows printed on the top. The arrow should point towards the wall when installed. In the event there are no arrows, the spikes on the tack strip should be angled towars the wall/unit. This is important. If the strip is incorrectly installed the carpet will not bite on the strip.

Note: If your unit has a skirt or base board around the bottom and it is not already installed, raise it up approx. 1/2" from the floor. This will give a space for the carpet to tuck under. Keep in mind you tack strip should be a fingers width from the outer most board/trim.

Just to clarify one thing, there is a difference in tack strips. The strip itself is basically te same. The nails are whats different.

3. If you are not familiar with acrpet strechers or kickers it would be in your best intrest to have a carpet installer come in and strech the carpet over the tack strip. Since you have already installed the tack strip it should take an experienced installer about 15 minutes to strech and cut down about 20' of carpet.

I would go to a local carpet store early in the morning and look for guys hanging out around thier vans. Most installers work independently from the stores and you should be able to get a guy to do it for less than $40.00. You may find that they can do it at the end of the day and a case of cold beer is all they want.
Good luck and if you have any other questions I will be glad to help.

[Les Spencer]

Thanks for suggestions. :) Thought some may have used a base screwed to the floor to get around unevenness of the carpet. Unit will be on a ply sub floor.

[Per Swenson]

Hello Les,

Hello everybody,

Every job is different.

That is what makes this stuff fun.

Here is what I do in most cases,


Not hard..

Make your base separate from the unit.

Pull the carpet off the tack strip two feet back.

Remove the tack strip.

Install and level the base.

Put new tack strip about 1/2 inch away from new base.

trim the carpet 2 inchs longer, the pad a 1/2 inch shorter

and staple the pad.


Rent a kicker at the home depot for 10 bucks.

Kick the carpet from the center..left right left right on to the tack strip.

Cut the carpet and roll it into that 1/2 gap.

carpet guys use what is called a stair tool for this...

a fancy name for a blunt chisel. A flat bar works fine.


Install your built in.

Trust me if you can build a bookshelf you can kick a carpet.

Per

[Jim Becker]

What Per said...and I always prefer the separate toe bases as they make it extremely easy to level things before you're dealing with larger cabinet pieces.

[mike roe]

Im thinking of putting a built in window bench under a large window flanked by 2 thin bookcases. The room is carpeted though. Would it be ok to build a base of 2x4's, screwed to the studs, and install cabinet levelers on the front bottom of the cases as a reserve leveling force? The unit would still sit on, and be attached to, the base, but have levelers in the waiting should the cabinet begin to move out of level away from the rear wall. So if the unit starts to sag i would just have to use a screwdriver and from the inside of the unit extend the levelers. The ones ive seen have almost 2 inches of travel and can support 350 pounds each. just a thought as i am not going to live here forever and when I sell it may need to remve the unit. It would be nice to have a fully carpeted room in case i need to do that.