I Need Help With an Ethical Dilema

[Dan Mages]

Hi everyone,

I need some advice and thoughts on a situation where there are some sticky ethical issues. I was laid off back in May and am eligible for unemployment benefits, if I am looking for a full time job. I have not collected my unemployment benefits yet due to my wedding earlier this summer, moving to Wisconsin, and my wife's promotion and an upcoming move to Connecticut.

My wife and I have discussed the situation in great length. I was very unhappy in my previous job. She is encouraging me to go back to school and change my career to baking and pasty arts. So I will be going back to school in February in CT to start this new career with the long term aspirations of opening my own bakery. It is good to have someone you love to tell you what you need to hear.

So here comes the dilemma. I am eligible for over $9,000 in unemployment benefits if I am actively seeking a full time job. According to the state of IL, This means that I have to apply for 3 jobs weekly.

Is it wrong of me to apply to jobs for the purpose of collecting my unemployment checks even though I have no intention of actually taking these jobs?

My natural instinct is that applying to jobs I have no interest in is disingenuous and wrong. However, I still have the small part of me that says $9000 will go a long way in paying my tution.

All advice is welcome.

Thanks,

Dan

[Jonathon Spafford]

It's cool that you are thinking through this situation like that... a lot of people wouldn't give it a second thought!

My simple answer is that I personally am siding with your natural instinct.

Anyway, whichever way you go, I'm wishing you the best success in your business endeavors!!

[Jim Young]

I think it would be wrong to collect the $$ while applying for jobs which I didn't intend to take. I'm sure people have done it, but that doesn't make it OK.

Maybe there is some type of program for financial assistance for people wanting to go to school after getting laid off. It might be worth a check and at the same time you can go on with a clear concience(sp?).

[Brian Kent]

It seems like the heart of the rules has to do with getting us moving forward with the next steps of a career, which you are doing. To have integrity with the letter of the law too, apply for jobs that would seem wildly exciting and wonderful, even if beyond your reach, or work that has to do with what you want to do next in the cullinary arts. A little on the job training before the formal training begins!

[Stuart Johnson]

You will be spending your time pursuing a new career not hanging around the local pub or bowling alley. In my opinion draw the unemployment and meet the requirements by applying top level positions in your new field. You won't get a job but you just might open a few doors.

[Doyle Alley]

I was in the same situation as you a little over 16 yrs ago. I decided to go back to school and earn my 2nd bachelors degree. I put in lots of "garbage" applications. Nobody requires you actually go on interviews. Just hit the various stores and put in applications to meet the requirements.

Here is something that will make you feel better about it. Those unemployment benefits are paid for by payments from employers. The company that fired you will be "hit" for a benefits claim which affects the rates they will pay for future unemployment insurance. If you were dismissed through no fault of your own, I figure they owe you something. This is your way of getting back at them.

[Rich Stewart]

I wanna know where I sign up for pasty school. Sounds like a job I could love. For LIFE!

Take the money.

[Joe Pelonio]

Everyone else does it. As an employer I have had many applicants over the years that came in strictly to be able to use me as one of their potential employers for maintaining their unemployment checks. Some even used me when they didn't have an interview, I told them we had no openings then I got a call later from the state to verify the person applied.

Here's my suggestion. You have a plan, but let's face it something could come along that delays the school or maybe allows you to do school at night and still work. Go for the unemployment with the attitude that if you find something really good you might accept it. Then you are not taking the money under false pretenses.

[David Duke]

Here is something that will make you feel better about it. Those unemployment benefits are paid for by payments from employers. The company that fired you will be "hit" for a benefits claim which affects the rates they will pay for future unemployment insurance. If you were dismissed through no fault of your own, I figure they owe you something. This is your way of getting back at them.

This is a statement I have a hard time coming to grips with (and yes I have been a business owner for over 30 years). While I agree that people should have some benefits available to them when laid off or fired, in most (not all) instances there are legitimate reasons for the termination, there could have been a slow down in business or the employee just wasn't performing no matter how much training was made available to them.

But that aside, your statement that he shouldn't worry about taking the benefits because the company is paying for the unemployment insurance is absurd. Thats about like saying its OK for a jury to award a multi-million dollar settlement to someone even though it was a frivolous claim simply because the insurance company will have it to pay. We all pay because as everyone knows companies will pass along any increases/claim payments to there customers.

As to the OP's question regarding the ethical issue he is asking about, in my opinion the fact that he is having to ask should be his answer.

Oh, for those interested, in over 30 years of being in business I have had to fire (no layoffs) just one person and he did file/receive unemployment benefits.

[Lee Schierer]

In some states, depending upon why you lost your job you may be eligible for unemployment while you are going to school to be retrained. There were certain provisions of NAFTA that required federal support for retraining for jobs lost to Mexico. You might want to approach your local unemployment office and see what they have to say. I suspect that there are more ways to collect than meet the eye at first glance.

Also being a full time student getting training for a new career is full time job seeking.

[jeremy levine]

In some states it is legal to train for a new job and get benifits. Maybe you could find out a bit more for your states office of blah blah...

NY state has a clause
"Section 599 of the Unemployment Insurance Law makes it possible for you to receive benefits while attending a training course or program that the office where you filed your UI claim has APPROVED. Approval is based on the type of training, its duration, your need for training and other factors. "

[Doyle Alley]

It isn't at all like trying for a big jury award just because the insurance companies have big pockets. There is a reason it is called unemployment "benefits". If a worker has been loyal to an employer (i.e, no fault on his part) and that employer chooses to discontinue employment, then that worker is owed a benefit.

While I can certainly understand your position as a responsible business owner and I credit you with maintaining an attitude of loyalty to your employees, not many business operate today with the same kind of loyalty standards that were prevalent in past decades. I would go so far as to say that most large business operate today with the thought that an employee is just an asset with no more value than a piece of depreciable machinery.

In my case 16 years ago, I had a very vindictive district manager that overrode the decision of a local office manager and forced my termination. I took much comfort in taking my "benefit" knowing that it was their fault I was unemployed and that they would be punished with higher rates for their actions. Had it not been for that one district manager, I would have continued a loyal relationship that was beneficial for both sides.

If I may digress further: in the case of my current employer, I have survived 5 massive "downsizings" as the company has struggled. While I respect that as a necessary business decision, I saw good co-workers forced to leave just because their name came up in some type of "lottery" while bad co-workers kept their jobs simply because their name never came up. I don't feel bad at all about any of those good former employees taking full advantage of any benefit. On the other hand - if the company had actually shown some intelligence and downsized "from the bottom of the barrel" I wouldn't feel the same way.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I see absolutely NO reason why you can not send out your resume with complete honesty.

You can specify things that you absolutely require ( to get you to quit school) such as
1.) you won't take less than 250-Gees per year,
2.) your privacy rights require that you refuse all drug tests
3.) you will not work for any one younger than you.

Etc., - whatever it is that would be the ticket to get you to walk away from school is fair game to put in your resume and there is no reason to tell any one why. Just be honest about your demands.

I will bet you a dollar you will be turned down for every job.

Additionally some states will pay you to get retrained~!! Ask~!!

[Steven Wilson]

So here comes the dilemma. I am eligible for over $9,000 in unemployment benefits if I am actively seeking a full time job. According to the state of IL, This means that I have to apply for 3 jobs weekly.

Is it wrong of me to apply to jobs for the purpose of collecting my unemployment checks even though I have no intention of actually taking these jobs?


Yes it would be unethical to collect unemployment if you have no intention of ever working again in your current field. Are you so disgusted with your former field of employment that you would never work in it again? Or, are you sick of your former employer? My guess is that you're sick of your former employer. If this is the case then you can ethically collect unemployment by applying for good positions in your current field, and new one as well, while you actively train as a baker. Great opportunities are great opportunities and if one came up in your current field it would probably be a good idea to take it. You can always work and study at the same time.

[Dan Mages]

In some states, depending upon why you lost your job you may be eligible for unemployment while you are going to school to be retrained. There were certain provisions of NAFTA that required federal support for retraining for jobs lost to Mexico. You might want to approach your local unemployment office and see what they have to say. I suspect that there are more ways to collect than meet the eye at first glance.

Also being a full time student getting training for a new career is full time job seeking.

I did call the state of IL regarding this issue and they informed me that I would become intelligible for benefits as a full time student because I would not be able to work full time. I think it is nuts and am trying to reach my state senator to let him know my thoughts on the situation.


see absolutely NO reason why you can not send out your resume with complete honesty.

You can specify things that you absolutely require ( to get you to quit school) such as
1.) you won't take less than 250-Gees per year,
2.) your privacy rights require that you refuse all drug tests
3.) you will not work for any one younger than you.

Etc., - whatever it is that would be the ticket to get you to walk away from school is fair game to put in your resume and there is no reason to tell any one why. Just be honest about your demands.

I will bet you a dollar you will be turned down for every job.

True, but the state has the right to audit my application history and doing so may land me in trouble. Secondly, part of this dilemma is a matter of respect to the hiring company by not sending them useless resumes.

Dan

[David Duke]

Doyle, we're saying basically the same thing, I agree that employees should take advantage of the unemployment benefits available to them, that is why they are in place to help people through the transition period. My problem is with the assumption that when a company is "hit" with a claim thus creating higher insurance rates only affect that company when it actually affects us all.

My apologies to the OP, don't mean to hijack this thread.

[Jim Becker]

I have to side with collecting your benefits...you, in effect, have paid for them in various ways. Don't worry about your previous employer's situation...you don't work there anymore and it was apparently their decision that you leave, not yours. And apply for jobs that would appeal to you, even if for short term...maybe in your intended future line of work. You can be selective while still meeting the letter of the law.

[Rick Hutcheson]

Well I don't think you should apply if you do not plan to take a job offered. The unemployment office may find a job for you, then you will have to try to explain why you won't take the job they found. Unemployment was designed to help those losing a job and needing money to get by until they find a new job. There are programs to help in getting training for a new line of work if you qualify.
As for you have it coming it will just cost your former employer. Yes it will, but that will cost you too. As employers are charged more for unemployment insurance, you will not see any raises to your salary because their cost of doing business has been raised.
Fiing under false pretenses is like my coming to your house and saying I fell then suing you for $750,000 because you have insurance. Even though I was not injured very bad, you have insurance to cover it.
My guess is most people don't understand what it costs to run a business. I really think that everyone needs to be in business for themselves at least 5 years before they reach the age of 30. That would give them a good idea of how easy owning a business is and that it is all profit, there is no cost to running a business. So they think.

[Mitchell Andrus]

These are not BENEFITS, there are insurance procedes. You paid into the fund to protect yourself... you are entitled to collect if you meet certain conditions. As long as you aren't committing fraud reach for the gold ring.

[Stephen Beckham]

Dan,

The fact that you ask has given light to your feelings that it could be wrong. You are the one that has to face yourself while shaving. If you're good with it, or need it - it is your right.

As far as a benefit - I disagree with other's comments about it being a benefit. Benefits are paid vacation, time-off, overtime etc...

It's a typical response from todays society that everybody owes you something. Bottom line - you get a job - you work - you get paid. When you don't work - you don't get paid. Unless you sign an open contract for 'benefits' when you are let go - you're benefits were let go when you were. Your former boss paid you for the hours you worked - now that you're not working for him - he owes you nothing legally. Yea a good Christian would try to make it right and help you out - but nothign requires it.

Don't get me wrong - my wife claimed unemployment when she was laid off - we needed - we used it until we got past it. We weren't ashamed or embarrased. It's a tool provided to assist - not a benefit - not a retirement plan. Using it is not wrong - abusing it is.

IMHO since you've already questioned it - you apparently have a core set of values to lead you in the right direction - you are not the type that would likely abuse it beyond reason. Do what you need to do to make sure the family is taken care of. Take care and good luck with your ventures...

[Jon Behnke]

I commend you for taking the initiative in finding a new career after your job loss. Chasing dreams is part of the American way. That said, as I see it, unemployment insurance has a distinct purpose, to help with the transition between jobs. If you are applying for jobs that you have no intention of accepting just to collect a check, then you are essentially taking yourself out of the job market and don't really deserve the money. I would think that this would be fraud, trying to collect money from an insurance company for a false claim.
As to the statement that "everyone does it", this of course doesn't make it right and is a feeble excuse that shouldn't be excepted. This mentality that we are "owed" or that the money comes from a company with deep pockets is part of the problem we face with rising costs everywhere. That money comes from somewhere and it's not coming from some CEO's pocket.
I have no problem with someone using unemployment as it is intended, it's been a life saver for many I'm sure. Whatever choice you make, you will be the one to face yourself at the end of the day.
Good luck in your endeavors!

[Greg Cuetara]

Dan, I have to agree Jon on this one. The only way this whole society is going to last is if we take what we need to get by and not what we think society owes us. IMHO go with your first instincts.
Here in the state of Maine we have over 20% of the population on welfare because they think they deserve it and that it is the states right to take care of them. The fact of the matter is that you might get some money but it will be paid for by me and others due to increased costs from that business.

If you are in need of a job in between your moves and everything else and can't get a job then go ahead and take the unemployment. That is what unemployment is for. IMHO I think of it as something of pride in myself and my country. I met one person up here in maine who worked for Bath Iron Works for 25 years welding and through the years was injured and couldn't do his job anymore. He was putting himself back through school ( on his own dime ) to get another career which he could do even with his disability. He said that he could have probably taken disability and retired... I think he is around 45 years old. He told me he couldn't take the easy way out and couldn't "leech off of society."

Some people need help and a hand up. It is our duty as a society to give them a hand up and help when things happen. We all as a society pay for unemployment (even if the direct money comes for the employer) we all still pay.

In the end do what you think is right for you at the time. I think someone else said it...you have to look at yourself every morning.

[Roger Bell]

I am not going to pontificate on what is "right" or "wrong". Sure, I have my opinion, and, I am as certain as everyone else that I am absolutely right, but so what?

That decision is yours and yours alone. You get to live with your conscience and the consequence of your sins, transgressions, or wrongdoing....whatever they may be....in this life, the next and perhaps for all of eternity. That's your business, and, like I said, your decision. The ultimate "Finder of the Fact" won't care who advised you....

The law requires you to apply for three jobs a week (or whatever the requirement is). You do that. You fulfill the requirement to the letter of the law or the regs or the rules. As long as you do that, you remain eligible for the payments (or "benefits" or whatever they're called or "deserve" to be called).

Is the law specific about what kinds of jobs you should be applying for? In your field? Not in your field? Whatever it says, you do. If you do, you fulfill your obligation, right? If you don't, you are subject to losing the payments.

Is the law specific in what your "intention" must be? I don't think it is, is it? Is the law specific concerning where your "heart" must be? I don't think it is, is it? Read the rules. Not some dodo's opinion of the rules or his view of what the rules are trying to achieve or his view of what they need to be to best serve the greater public good, according to him.

If the law doesn't do what it is supposed to do by keeping the cheaters and the offenders and the undeserving from getting what they don't deserve, then this society has established institutionalized democratic processes for resolving those problems through orderly change. These problems are not yours to solve.

What does the law say? What does the law require?

I will bet that the law or the regs are quite specific about whether or not you can justifiably "refuse" a bona fide job offer. You refuse, you lose the benefits, right? I'll bet that is the deal.

It is really that simple. Why make it more complicated than it is or turn it into some moral dilemma.... Why? Factor that into your calculus.

[jeremy levine]

You could take some classes at night ( part time ) while looking for a full time job. Are you sure you will get offers if you put out your resume ?

[Chuck Saunders]

My only thought is to apply for jobs in your chosen new field, and try to get the job. Get in some experience before school. If you don't get a job then unemployment keeps the wolf from the door. Once you get a job or start school, the unemployment compensation is moot. Enjoy the road to your new career.

[John Schreiber]

My natural instinct is that applying to jobs I have no interest in is disingenuous and wrong. However, I still have the small part of me that says $9000 will go a long way in paying my tution.
Follow your natural instincts. If it were a matter of starvation or medication for the children, principle might give way to need. If it's not, a clear conscious is worth more than money.

[Anthony Anderson]

I agree with Jim B. You have paid for these benefits, it was your employer's choice that lead to your departure. Many years ago I worked at a company who had an unscrupulous boss, and I happened to work on a commission scale. I was the newest employee and eligible for benefits. When work slowed, and not enough to go around, instead of allowing me to collect benefits until the workload picked up, he made life unbearable for me, at work at least, until I was forced to just leave, which made me uneligible for unemployment benefits, which hurt financially. Dan, You are not in the wrong in collecting benefits! You paid for those. Sure, the employer's rates may go up a little, but I am sure they weighed that before they dismissed you. That is the cost of doing business and hiring employees. You are not breaking any laws or ethical issues by collecting benefits, that is what they are there for. And, as others have said, maybe you will find a better job in your field, or find a job in a bakery, that will allow you some hands on experience before college. Take the benefits, they are yours. Good Luck in your career move. I have heard Conneticut is beautiful. Enjoy Life. Regards, Bill

[Chris Friesen]

Is it wrong of me to apply to jobs for the purpose of collecting my unemployment checks even though I have no intention of actually taking these jobs?

I'd suggest that the fact that you're even asking the question means that you know what the answer is...

[Dan Mages]

Thanks for all of the feedback so far. It gives me a lot to think about before I decide how to proceed. To clarify a few things.

Unemployment benefits are a right that I have given to me by the state and paid for by my previous employer. In theory, I should have the right to collect on my benefits.

Here are the specifics from the State of IL's website

2. Your employer must be subject to the state's unemployment insurance law. Among the types of work not covered are some agricultural, domestic and railroad work, some special government work, some work done for one's family, and some work done on commission.

3. You must either be entirely out of work or be working less than full-time because no more work is available. Your earnings must fall below a certain threshold determined at the time you file your claim.

4. Your unemployment must be involuntary. You may be disqualified if you: quit your job voluntarily without good cause attributable to your employer; were discharged for misconduct in connection with your work; were discharged for a felony or theft in connection with your work; or are out of work because of a labor dispute.

5. You must be able and available to work. Benefits are not paid for any period in which you are on vacation, when your principle occupation is that of a student (you may be eligible if you are attending a training course approved by the IDES Director) or while you engage in any other activity which makes you unavailable for work. Benefits are not paid for any day or days on which you are unable to work because of illness, disability, family responsibilities, lack of transportation, etc.

6. You must be actively seeking work, and willing to accept any suitable job offered. You must keep a log of your job search activities in every week for which you claim benefits. If your eligibility is challenged, you may be required to produce that document.

Dan

[John Shuk]

Dan you may also be eligible for benefits if you are seeking training which school is. I would look into that. I know that in NY there is something for displaced workers who wan't to go to school that keep benefits going as well as some help with the costs if guidelines are met. Don't know what they are but I imagine you can find out more.

[Scott Donley]

Dan, keep in mind that YOU paid for this benefit, the employer might have written the check but your pay was based on his cost. Anyone that has been in contract talks knows the employer brings the cost of L&I, Health Care and Unemployment Insurance to the table, as in you would have made more money if not for these costs. To put unemployment and welfare payments in the same category is just plain wrong.IMHO

[Tim Morton]

Do you think for one second the government feels bad for collecting taxes from you? Take the benefit...you have earned it. But remember you are responsible for paying taxes on it. So maybe now 9k becomes 6k.:cool:

[Bruce Page]

Thanks for all of the feedback so far. It gives me a lot to think about before I decide how to proceed. To clarify a few things.

Unemployment benefits are a right that I have given to me by the state and paid for by my previous employer. In theory, I should have the right to collect on my benefits.

Here are the specifics from the State of IL's website

2. Your employer must be subject to the state's unemployment insurance law. Among the types of work not covered are some agricultural, domestic and railroad work, some special government work, some work done for one's family, and some work done on commission.

3. You must either be entirely out of work or be working less than full-time because no more work is available. Your earnings must fall below a certain threshold determined at the time you file your claim.

4. Your unemployment must be involuntary. You may be disqualified if you: quit your job voluntarily without good cause attributable to your employer; were discharged for misconduct in connection with your work; were discharged for a felony or theft in connection with your work; or are out of work because of a labor dispute.

5. You must be able and available to work. Benefits are not paid for any period in which you are on vacation, when your principle occupation is that of a student (you may be eligible if you are attending a training course approved by the IDES Director) or while you engage in any other activity which makes you unavailable for work. Benefits are not paid for any day or days on which you are unable to work because of illness, disability, family responsibilities, lack of transportation, etc.

6. You must be actively seeking work, and willing to accept any suitable job offered. You must keep a log of your job search activities in every week for which you claim benefits. If your eligibility is challenged, you may be required to produce that document.

Dan

Dan, #5 & 6 would kill it for me, ethically speaking.

[Greg Crawford]

Just imagine what our taxes would be like if the majority of people in out nation had a conscience like you. If you do what you think is right, you can always sleep well and walk with your head held high. Just because everyone else does it doesn't mean it's right.

As a personal note, I have a government pension, but worked enough before the govt job to be eligible for social security benefits. However, I never paid in that much, and I don't have the need like some people, so I will not apply for them.

It's a personal decision, but I'm glad you're at least thinking.

Greg

[Dan Mages]

Follow your natural instincts. If it were a matter of starvation or medication for the children, principle might give way to need. If it's not, a clear conscious is worth more than money.

Some times my natural instincts tell that my sister has earned a slap across the back of the head when she does her usual stupid acts, but that doesn't mean I should...

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Dan......do what you know is right for you.......what your conscience tells you is right.

Years ago I was a low level area manager for a world wide company. My territory took in WI, IA, IL and northern IN. When the VP of our division gave me the choice of taking financial advantage of either the engineers working for me or my customers...I stepped down....after a day long discussion in a board room filled with middle level and upper level managers. They couldn't understand. For a couple of years after that I felt I had achieved my first failure as an adult and a professional. Later I realized that I'd done the right thing and I was sleeping just fine.

Let your conscience be your guide!

[Jim Young]

I am a little surprised at the amount of people that would take the benefit. It's not your "right" to take the money unless you meet the outlined requirements.

As Bruce mentions, $5 & 6 pretty well outline your legal eligability. In this case not eligable.

[Jim Podsedly]

Dan,

This is an interesting read and dilemna. I find it quite amusing everybody's viewpoint.

I have one question.

After you open your bakery and it is going like gangbusters and you hire some folks what is your take now if one of those workers has to be laid off. They really don't care because they are venturing into another career field.

How do you feel about somebody (i say losely) 'taking advantage' of the unemployment laws now that you being the employer and having to pay the premiums? (As Jim B. notes that the employee also 'contributes' to the premium)

FWIW - I would take the benefits.

Jim

[Jim Becker]

Jim, it's more complicated than that...the workers also pay the premiums. Every month Pennsytucky takes money out of my pay for unemployment insurance...

[Tom Veatch]

...
My natural instinct is that applying to jobs I have no interest in is disingenuous and wrong. However, I still have the small part of me that says $9000 will go a long way in paying my tution.
...


I think your "natural instinct" is correct and speaks highly of you. Just because "everybody does it" doesn't make it right. I'll go farther and say that collecting unemployment under the circumstances you describe is not only unethical, it crosses the line into fraudulent.

Don't put in a job application unless you believe there is a chance of getting a job offer that you would seriously consider accepting. Check on whether "retraining" benefits are available. Check on financial aid through whatever school you attend. Consider working while you attend school - a lot of people have worked their way through college - and apply for those jobs in good conscience. Don't go against what are very good instincts to gain temporary advantage at the cost of long term piece of mind.

[Wayne Watling]

Dan,

I can only suggest that you follow the letter of the law and your conscience. You have to live with your ethical decisions, we dont, and its an ethical question you are asking here. It would be ashame to begin a new carrer on the wrong foot, so take the time to ask yourself what decision you can live with.

...and all the best in your new career.

Wayne

[Jon Lanier]

And He said to them, “Whose image and inscription is this?” They said to Him, “Caesar’s.” And He said to them, “Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” Matthew 22:19-21

[Dan Mages]

Dan,

After you open your bakery and it is going like gangbusters and you hire some folks what is your take now if one of those workers has to be laid off. They really don't care because they are venturing into another career field.

How do you feel about somebody (i say losely) 'taking advantage' of the unemployment laws now that you being the employer and having to pay the premiums? (As Jim B. notes that the employee also 'contributes' to the premium)
Jim

If the employee is of good standing and I was forced to make a hard decision, I use my contacts in the community and industry to try to find the laid off employee a new job as soon as possible. If the employee wants to change careers, I would see what I can do to help them into that industry. If the employee does not wish to go back to work right away and go onto unemployment, I would wish them luck.

Dan

[Jack Dickey]

You have to live with the decision .. I couldnt honestly do it .. I have to sleep with me at night .. I think as someone else said , you answered your own question ..

Need a taste tester in the bakery ??

[Mike Hood]

I agree you should follow your heart. You know the RIGHT answer already. If you chose to take your career in another direction, many states have avenues for "displaced" workers in certain fields to re-train and draw partial benefits.

[David G Baker]

I don't know if it was stated, "in the case of right or wrong, if you feel you have to ask, you already know the answer".

[Jason Christenson]

Everyone else does it.

Well, then it must be ok. Yeesh.

[Tim Brooks]

I have not read all of the post in the thread but did read the initial post...

My take is this:

Integrity is one of the only things in life we have that others cannot take away from us. We must choose to give it away. That said my integrity is much more valuable than the $9,000 about which you are speaking. While there probably is some loop-hole that one could use to justify doing this, "everyone else" will not be standing at judgment with you--it will just be you. I would caution on the side of the little voice you hear as that is your conscience speaking. This obviously is not a heaven or hell decision but it certainly will mark your life after you make the decision regardless of which direction you go.

That's the way I see it. I realize the "I" word (integrity) has all but gone out the door in the society in which we live today but I will hold on to mine regardless the cost. Yours is for you to determine. :confused: :eek:

One more thing... It is against the law for the employer to require the employee to pay the Unemployement Insurance premiums. Some are grossly misinformed.

I knew a person who went on a game show, won a bunch of money, quit her job, and then applied for welfare before she received the winnings. Is this right? I'll save you the elaboration here. But this is basically the same thing, far-reaching, but the same thing.

Now all of this said, because you are second guessing the option of taking it, it is my guess you are going to make the right decision but MAN am I disappointed by the advice others are offering. The condition of this world is dishearting.
--WOW!

[Dave Sharpe]

Dan,
You do bring up an interesting dilemna, as shown by the wide range of responses on this forum. Here's my view on it: It appears that unemployment is set up to assist those who want to work and find themselves unemployed unwillingly. (I too have been fired by an unscrupulous employer in the past) Unemployment allows that worker time to find another job while still supporting his family. A worker who chooses to leave his job apparently isn't eligible for benefits (as I understand it) because he has the oppurtunity to work but chooses to leave the job. It sounds to me that you have the ability and skills to get a new job, but are really asking if it's OK to let the unemployment program support you while you train for a job you would prefer. And not simply if it's OK, but also if it's OK to, in essence, cheat the system to do this. Notwithstanding that it's very easy to do so, and that a lot of people do cheat the system, it's still not the right thing to do. (try this analogy on for size - OJ thought he had the right to break into someone's room with a gun and a posse, because that person had possession of things OJ thought were his. Still didn;t make it right, even if they did belong to OJ....) ANyway, protect your integrity - it's worth more than anything else.

Dave Sharpe