New Windows

[Byron Trantham]

We had about 25 new replacement windows installed about five months ago. They are the vinyl wrapped, double hung, low E glass, argon gas filled and flip out for easy cleaning. We are having two problems. First they won't stay up when we open them and second they collect moisture on the outside. The contractor has been out twice to adjust them. The last visit he said that's it; no more adjustment. They did stay open at that time. The weather finally cooled around here so we opened them last night and guess what, they wouldn't stay up! When we wake up in the morning we find that several of the windows have sweated so much you can't see through them. They seem to be behaving as if the gas between the panes doesn't exist. "Thermal pane" windows should not sweat, right? I assume this because the original oak framed double hung windows didn't sweat for about seven years (warranty was five years). Does anyone have experience with replacement windows? BTW the brand is Gorell. Am I expecting two much?

[David G Baker]

My home has a bunch of inexpensive vinyl sliding windows that have been in place for over 8 years and I have never had any problem with them sweating. Some of them are hard to close and get locked on occasion due to climate changes.
I would check with the manufacturer because you should not be having the problems you described.
A friend paid big bucks for a Pella wood sliding patio door and has had nothing but problems.

[Byron Trantham]

My home has a bunch of inexpensive vinyl sliding windows that have been in place for over 8 years and I have never had any problem with them sweating. Some of them are hard to close and get locked on occasion due to climate changes.
I would check with the manufacturer because you should not be having the problems you described.
A friend paid big bucks for a Pella wood sliding patio door and has had nothing but problems.

Thanks for the input. I am going to keep pursuing this. Interestingly enough, we had our French doors replaced as well with Pella doors. They are a dream - so far.

[Dan Mages]

Do you have a documented warranty? If you do and it states that you are covered, he has no choice but to service the windows. If he does not, you may have action against him. You might also want to check with your state's consumer protection agency for other possible recources.

Good luck.

Dan

[Jim Becker]

What Dan said...

[Byron Trantham]

Guys, I can take on the contractor BUT I need to know what is normal. I think it is fairly obvious that the windows not staying up is a problem. The sweating, on the other hand, is not. I can't seem to get a definitive answer whether this happens "normally" with gas filled panels. I have posted the problem with Gorell but you guys are unbiased and represent a huge well of information and direct experience. If sweating is not normal then I will take the appropriate action with the contractor.

[Jim Becker]

IMHO, the sweating is not normal.

[Brian Weick]

Byron,
My first opinion on this is The individual/company that installed those windows should come back - no matter what the problem is and resolve it if he/she has any integrity all. There should have been a manifest on what the window options are on each window and the warranty information. It should list "Low e/argon" somewhere, first on the manifest and second on the upper jamb frame of the window- a sticker with a code# that is banked at the window manufacturer's location so if there is a problem with a certain window - that code lists the size, the options, etc,etc, no need for any other information. If it looks like the sticker has been removed- there may be a reason for that,,,,? Most companies that make replacement windows use this practice- but not all.
If you have haze in between the glass- that is a seal failure and the sash needs to be replaced- your contractor should be responsible for this as well.
If your window will not stay up - this could be why- There are metal legs (posts) that are what fit into the shoes coil spring housing- If you lean the window out that is not staying up- see if these legs are in the coil spring shoe housing. If they are not you have to remove the window, turn the shoe with a large screwdriver parallel to the window frame , insert the window again and make sure those legs are dropped in to the shoes on both sides. there are also side jamb frame adjustment screws housed in the middle of the window on both sides- those screws move the sides of the frame closer to the sashes to make a more precise adjustment for the seal with the upper and lower sashes.
If they are in, or not adjusted in , they should stay up no matter what - if not- there is a problem with the sash coil mechanism.-the contractor should rectify this.
What is the brand of window Byron? - most are constructed this way , but not all.
Hope you get this rectified!:rolleyes:
Brian

[Oscar Mueller]

Windows do not sweat unless there is a moisture problem.Is the moisture on the inside or the outside?There is an answer to this and I don't think it would be the new windows.

[Byron Trantham]

The brand is Gorell. I will have to look to see if the coil mechanism is in place correctly. As far as sweating is concerned it is NOT in the middle (ie not a seal failure) its on the outside of the glass. We just got back from a friends house that has similar windows and I asked him if his windows sweat in the morning and he said yes - during the month of August especially. He said that when the dew point was high, around 70, you couldn't avoid moisture building up on the outside. I haven't heard from Gorell yet but its the weekend. I expect to hear from them this week. Once I am armed with the information I will then contact the contractor. At this point it looks like the sweating is normal [for our area, Northern VA] and the falling windows aren't. I'll keep you posted is you wish.

[Byron Trantham]

Byron,
My first opinion on this is The individual/company that installed those windows should come back - no matter what the problem is and resolve it if he/she has any integrity all. There should have been a manifest on what the window options are on each window and the warranty information. It should list "Low e/argon" somewhere, first on the manifest and second on the upper jamb frame of the window- a sticker with a code# that is banked at the window manufacturer's location so if there is a problem with a certain window - that code lists the size, the options, etc,etc, no need for any other information. If it looks like the sticker has been removed- there may be a reason for that,,,,? Most companies that make replacement windows use this practice- but not all.
If you have haze in between the glass- that is a seal failure and the sash needs to be replaced- your contractor should be responsible for this as well.
If your window will not stay up - this could be why- There are metal legs (posts) that are what fit into the shoes coil spring housing- If you lean the window out that is not staying up- see if these legs are in the coil spring shoe housing. If they are not you have to remove the window, turn the shoe with a large screwdriver parallel to the window frame , insert the window again and make sure those legs are dropped in to the shoes on both sides. there are also side jamb frame adjustment screws housed in the middle of the window on both sides- those screws move the sides of the frame closer to the sashes to make a more precise adjustment for the seal with the upper and lower sashes.
If they are in, or not adjusted in , they should stay up no matter what - if not- there is a problem with the sash coil mechanism.-the contractor should rectify this.
What is the brand of window Byron? - most are constructed this way , but not all.
Hope you get this rectified!:rolleyes:
Brian

Brain, the brand is Gorell. Thanks for your input. I will look at the windows tomorrow.

Byron

[Eric Franklin]

I have some replacement windows put in a few years ago and one of them started showing moisture on the inside of the window in the morning when the it was extremely cold during the winter months. I called the company and they came out and replaced both glass packs in the double hung windows. It still did it and we were told that if the window coverings covered the window to tightly, it would cause this problem. We have mini-blinds in the window and if we leave a small gap on the bottom, it seemed to solve the problem.

Eric

[Byron Trantham]

I heard from Gorell first thing this morning. It turns out that moisture on the Outside of the window is normal when the dew point is high (humid). this was confirmed by a friend of mine with similar windows. He told me his does the same thing in the morning during the month of August when the humidity around here is high. The windows not staying up is a problem and we are working on it. Gorell said we may have a defective window but I doubt it, as 90% of them are doing the same thing. I called the contractor to get on his schedule.

[Byron Trantham]

Good news. Our contractor just called and told us the Gorell rep will be here next week. That should do it! We are looking forward to hear what he has to say. thanks for all your help. I will post the results next week.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Byron....if it's extremely hot and humid and you are running the air conditioner, it's possible that humidy could condense on the outside of the window. The windows not staying up, however, is a problem. JMHO....

[Byron Trantham]

Byron....if it's extremely hot and humid and you are running the air conditioner, it's possible that humidy could condense on the outside of the window. The windows not staying up, however, is a problem. JMHO....

Ken, you are right on both counts. The Gorell rep will be here at 3:30 next Tuesday to determine why the windows won't stay up.

[Lee Schierer]

Having moisture on the outside of the glass on a cool morning is normal, ours have it from time to time. Moisture between the glass is not normal. Moisture on the inside when the windows are closed is also not normal.

The windows should stay where they are left when opened. On our windows (Great Lakes) there are lifts on both sides of the windows. When you tip the window out and remove the window, the tipping action locks both of these lifiing devices where they are. Sometimes when you tip out the window and don't get the tab on the sides of the window pane engaged properly with the slot in the lift support the lift support does not engage and stays locked in the down position. If only one lift device is trying to hold open the window, it will probably move.

On the windows that don't stay up, lift the window all the way up, then look in the bottom of the track in the window frame for the lifting device. If you see it, it isn't working to hold the window. You will need to put the window down and get the tab on the side of the window to engage on both sides in both lifting devices. You may even have to release the latch with a screw driver and slide it up a bit so it will engage. (Warning, the lifting devices are spring loaded, so be careful work with them, make sur e it is locked before you let go.) Both should go up and down with the window.

[ROBERT ELLIS]

Byron,

I work at a business that sells lots of windows from several differant manufactures. We do get calls for repair on windows from time to time. Unfortunately, we've spoiled our contractors and most of the time we work the claim ourselves. If I had to give an educated guess as to what the problem is I would venture to say they installed the wrong Balance Coil Spring in you window. One line of windows we carry had probably 3 differant springs depending on the style of window. The same company carries a double strength glass so you can imagine the need for a stronger and more tension spring. It has happened, but very rarely, the wrong spring was installed by the window manufacture for the wrong series of windows. If this is the case with your windows, it should be very easy, and relatively quickly for them to fix...

Robert

[Byron Trantham]

Byron,

I work at a business that sells lots of windows from several differant manufactures. We do get calls for repair on windows from time to time. Unfortunately, we've spoiled our contractors and most of the time we work the claim ourselves. If I had to give an educated guess as to what the problem is I would venture to say they installed the wrong Balance Coil Spring in you window. One line of windows we carry had probably 3 differant springs depending on the style of window. The same company carries a double strength glass so you can imagine the need for a stronger and more tension spring. It has happened, but very rarely, the wrong spring was installed by the window manufacture for the wrong series of windows. If this is the case with your windows, it should be very easy, and relatively quickly for them to fix...

Robert

Robert,
Thanks for your input. This is the kind of information I need to be armed with when the Gorell rep is here next Tuesday. I have great expectations that this problem will be solved.

[Byron Trantham]

Byron,

I work at a business that sells lots of windows from several differant manufactures. We do get calls for repair on windows from time to time. Unfortunately, we've spoiled our contractors and most of the time we work the claim ourselves. If I had to give an educated guess as to what the problem is I would venture to say they installed the wrong Balance Coil Spring in you window. One line of windows we carry had probably 3 differant springs depending on the style of window. The same company carries a double strength glass so you can imagine the need for a stronger and more tension spring. It has happened, but very rarely, the wrong spring was installed by the window manufacture for the wrong series of windows. If this is the case with your windows, it should be very easy, and relatively quickly for them to fix...

Robert


Gorell just left. Turns out you were right on the problem. There are two tiny (4/40) set screws in the spring coil assembly that weren't installed. They had a few of them with them and now I need a floor jack to raise the window!:D They are comming back to install all the rest.

[Jim Becker]

Ah...the not so rare but still deadly, "missing screw" problem...

[Byron Trantham]

Ah...the not so rare but still deadly, "missing screw" problem...

Anyone ever tell you, you are a nut!:D

[Jim Becker]

Anyone ever tell you, you are a nut!:D


Sometimes I feel like one...sometimes I are one...:o