christmas wish list (please help me ask santa for what I need)

[John Nowack]

Just started turning in June and we live on a tight cash only, stay at home mom budget (by choice). I have a garage shop in progress and want to know want would be the best investment next-- Currently turning pens and ornaments but would like to get into bowls etc.

already have12" 1975 craftman lathe that I got for $40 plus tools would like an new one but don't think I have room or budget for large lathe but again I don't want to spend $300 on another midi if you think I will need to upgrade sooner than later-have drill press------small 9" band saw- 10" table saw-cheap basic tools (roughing gouge, pen tool set, skew, cut off tools)

Would like:

new lathe (can I get into turning bowls? (to learn and give to family) with a new midi)
Belt disc sander
bowl gouges/ spindle gouges (is 3/8 or 1/2 better for universal pupose on small to mid size bowls)
Dust collector (using shop vac currently-- is small portable Ok since i am limited on space)
Drum sander because segmented turning catches my eye and I don't have imidiate access to raw stock
Attaching pics of garage shop without the current tools. I have some space on the front wall to build a bench. not sure if I need the lathe to be portable so can get to the center of bowls were as I currently only have access from on side.
A polishing system (no idea were to start my knowledge is limited to friction polish)

I realize you all don't have time to write a toutorial to make my decitions for me but, I thought I could learne from your "if I had it all to do over again" comments and give me some pointers for Santa. Once I get it all set up you won't have to read my long post and I promise to just post pics and comments like "here is the latest....."

Short version is --what do I need to make a priority next?

[Tim Fitzgibbon]

John,

June was about the time I started turning and also on an old Craftsman. The one I was using had issues though. Is your Craftsman spindle 3/4" 16 TPI? If so I have a Nova Midi chuck you can have. It was used for about 3 practice chunks of wood and then I bought a lathe it wouldn't fit on...I told that salesman that I was planning to buy a new lathe soon so why didn't he sell me a bigger 8 TPI chuck with an insert...grrr. Sorry, I digress. Anyway, it won't come with any jaws or worm screw (still using those on a Super Nova), but you'll save a few bucks by just having to buy those. If it will fit and you want it, PM me an address and I'll put it in the mail...else if anyone else wants it...

Tim

[Paul Heely]

My thoughts....

New Lathe: Yes you can learn to turn bowls on a new midi. The limitation will be on how big a bowl you can turn but you will be the limitation on how nice a bowl you can turn. I'm not familiar with the lathe you already have. Is there something wrong with it that prevents you from turning bowls on it?

Belt Disc Sander: I don't have a belt sander and rarely do I wish I had one. For disc sanding I have a round block of wood mounted on a faceplate and use the lathe as a disc sander. I don't need to use it very much so this works for me.

Gouges: Since you want to turn bowls and it does not sound like you have any bowl gouges already this would be high on my list. For your first ones I would get inexpensive HSS no name gouges. If you are like me and many others you will grind away a lot of your first bowl gouge learning to sharpen it and trying different sharpening profiles. How are you set for sharpening? Grinder, jigs, etc?

Dust Collector: Your profile does not say where you are located. If you are in a warm climate then open the garage door and use a fan. In any case a good dust mask is cheaper than a dust collector. Dust collectors are also not very good at collecting anything but the fine dust, won't do much to help collect the big chips while they are being made.

Polishing System: I have the beall buff system, 3 separate wheels, and really like it.

Here's a question for you. What is it that you can't do that you want to? You said you wanted to turn bowls but what is it about your current setup that prevents you from doing so? Knowing what is limiting you might help provide you with better advice or ways to work around the limitation. For example there several ways to turn a bowl without a scroll chuck, so if that is your limitation then we can provide alternatives to get you going.

Hope that helped.

[John Nowack]

Thank you very much for the offer. I actually do have Nova chuck but was lucky enough to get the 8 tpi. I would fight it out for a while but every new thing I need seems to need the 8 tpi so I don't want to re-buy everything. The craftsman wobles and seems to have a bend in the head stock. I am sure someone else would be blessed by your offer (like everything else those things aren't cheap)

[TYLER WOOD]

John, if you have all te turning tools, except bowl gouges, and the lathe is messed, my vote is to get a new lathe. I am on the same wagon as you are, so I feel your pain. But the even worse pain is to see a project in your mind and not be able to pull it off because of poor tools. Poor ooling will ruin more projects that the learning process, trust me I started on a POS for 5 months, until I was blessed. So please take this advice and either get you a midi/mini lathe if that will work for you, or save up and buy a larger lathe in a year or so. Hope this helps!!!

[Paul Heely]

Now that its clear that your current lathe has serious issues I would say that a new mini lathe would be tops on the list along with a bowl gouge.

[Frank Kobilsek]

John,
I your situation I'd focus on tools and sharpening system. If you buy attachments for the old Craftsman its likily they won't fit your future lathe.

Now as to the future lathe start searching for the deal of the century. Fortunately for younger budget limited woodworkers such as yourself there is a huge population of old guys out there who have the cash for the hobby but either their time left to enjoy the hobby is unexpected short or physical limitations force the end to thier time in the abyss. Awesome deals can be found if you are in the right place at the right time.

Frank

[Patrick Taylor]

You can do quite a bit with a mini and a 3/8" bowl gouge, including bowls up to 10" diameter (no salad bowls, but 10" still gives a lot of room to play with). You can do hollow-forms too (with hollowing tools, of course). You can ABSOLUTELY work on perfecting your bowl-turning techniques with a mini and apply all you've learned someday on a big beast.

That said, you WILL be itching for more capacity within in a year.

THAT said, I will soon be upgrading from a mini, but will keep the mini for buffing and smaller items because it's a great little machine, so I'm still glad I started on a mini!

RE polishing, you want the beall (or other brand) 3 wheel buffing system, and you can get an adapter (that holds the buffing wheels) to fit your lathe spindle, either threaded or one that fits the morse taper.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

John....if the Craftsman spindle wobbles...You might be able to repair it. If it's just worn bearings those often can be bought at a local bearing supply house relatively cheap. If the head is bent, the odds are it won't align with your tail stock so that makes for a nearly impossible or at least difficult to fix.

Thus it becomes a matter of a new lathe or try to repair the old one ...or don't turn for a while and save your money for a new lathe.

The only negative about any min-midi lathe is the size you can turn. I've turned quite a few bowls on my Jet VS Mini. They are just small in size.

If I was in you shoes, I'd look at the possibilities of repairing the Craftsman. If it's just bearings, $20, $30, $40....and you could turn on it and save your money for a new lathe. If the head is truly bent....it gets a little more difficult.

Good luck with your decisions!

[John Nowack]

Thanks for advise. I would love the belt/disc sander because I currently use one on the lathe like you say but it wabbles like crazy. I want ot get a few more inside out ornaments done before x-mas and the glue/ evening up of the peices is the hardest part for me.
Dumb ?? what is an HSS tool that everyone mentions. I know you are supposted to advertize but hopefully it is ok to ask. (is habor freight a good place to buy cheap tools. don't want total junk though)
Have a grinder but no jigs yet (have already paid for my cheapness not using one on a couple of tools)

Knowledge is the biggest hold back on bowl turning. That and finding wood to pratice on that is not $30 for a small block. I have a guy with 80m years of experince that I want to schedule some time with. The one week old and c-section on my wife is hoding that off. She is 4'9" and our first was 9lbs 14ozs and the new one was 8lbs 14ozs

[Paul Heely]

HSS is high speed steel as opposed to carbon steel. With HSS if you blue the edge from overheating, either grinding or turning, you do not loose the temper like you will if you blue carbon steel.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

John....HF sells a HSS tool set for about $40 but IIRC there isn't a bowl gouge in the set. It does include spindle gouge IIRC.

PSI Benjamin's Best are probably some to the best tools out there for the buck. I know several Creekers have bought their tools and been extremely happy with them.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Just for the record, I only have one bowl gouge. It's a 3/8" Robert Larson. Brand isn't important. I rough and finish turn with that rascal. You can do it but it just takes lighter cuts and more time. As I was turning on a Jet mini...I did have the h/p to really hog out material anyway without stalling the motor.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

As far as turning tools....here's what I use the most and you could do it on a minimal budget....all tools HSS....

3/8 spindle gouge

3/8 bowl gouge

1/8" parting tool

3/4" skew......

3/4" spindle roughing gouge

[Darrell Feltmate]

John
I have 4 lathes now but one of them is my 1996 Canadian Tire single tube that may be similar to the Craftsman you now have. They were marketed by both companies with different labels. It will turn an 11" bowl with no problem. the spindle is 3/4" by 16 tpi and there are lots of accessories available.

For tools, HSS is just a catch all term for high speed steel. It holds an edge longer than carbon steel and is more forgiving when sharpening as regards bluing an edge. A blue edge on carbon steel means either grind beyond it or retemper it, on HSS no problem. Most turning tools will be M2 HSS.


One of the first things on your list should be a sharpening system. Make or buy one. I am never sure if I am allowed to put my web address on the messages, but it is on my profile. There are plans there (free) for making a sharpening system and various tools, including the Oland tool that will cover you easily for bowl turning, both roughing and finishing.

Any question, just holler.

[Paul Heely]

That and finding wood to pratice on that is not $30 for a small block.

$30, or any amount, for practice wood will kill the budget quickly.

Here are some ideas on finding free wood:
Local dump, or the nicer sounding transfer station.
Call all the local tree surgeons, tree removers and landscapers in the phone book.
Call the local power company.
Tell everyone you know that you are looking for logs.
Check with the local public works department.
Wait for a big storm the drive around.
Join a local woodturning club, the contacts you'll make should keep you in wood for a while.

In my area if I had to buy wood for practice I would contact somebody that sells firewood and buy a cord, or see what I could work out if I didn't have room to store an entire cord. (And most of the firewood guys around here will deliver).

[joe greiner]

Might be a little premature to ask Santa for a new lathe, until you have a better idea of the direction you want to take.

I haven't noticed mention of a chain saw. Even a small electric limb trimmer will work well enough on firewood or roadside orphans. Rig a fixturing system for small pieces to reduce danger. Google ["laymar crafts"] for a sample device; a variation was published in American Woodturner (AAW) magazine a few months ago.

Joe

[Rick Apt]

John,

You already have, in my opinion, the three most important things for successful turning experiences:

1) supportive family (most important)
2) great workspace
3) this site (you can be like me and very rarely post and still learn an incredible amount)

I prefer "older" tools / toys myself. As Ken said see if it is a cheap bearing fix. Most older machines are sold because someone "wants" a new lathe and not because they "need" a new lathe. The new technology is great and may make our lives easier but it is not necessarily "better". That said be conscious of the trap of putting too much money into an older machine. The frequent contributors here will help you find that balance.

Finally, if you are comfortable doing it, post the region of the country you live in. Maybe there is a club or a SMC member that can help you out. Some of us have literally tons of wood and we would rather see you with a new lathe than paying someone an exorbitant amount for your bowl blanks.

Best, Rick

[Dean Thomas]

You've gotten some great advice on the topic. I know of a couple of Craftsmen lathes in the 30-year-old range, most of them wobble like crazy. Many sit idle in a shop corner somewhere. At least one of them has a badly warped spindle shaft. Bearings are fine, but the point of the spur drive goes in a circle when rotated by hand. Good way to check that. Also, if you have a faceplate, you can mount that and should be able to feel if there is any play at all in the bearings. And any play is magnified the farther from the head you go. It's generally considered unacceptable. No tolerance. And if you've got play, it will only get worse. Sorry. And if the shaft is bent, sorrier. No solutions, no spare parts from Sears on 30-year-old tools.

Did I read that you've already made connection with the AAW chapter in your area? That membership is your best dollar investment, IMHO. Hang a wooden holiday ribbon on THAT expense!!

If your lathe is a 12" swing machine that means that the center of the spur sits about 6" above the way tube so that you can put a 12" diameter circle of wood on your machine. If your machine will spin at less than 750rpm, you can do bowls up to 11-12" fairly practically. That's a really nice size to start with. Bowl gouge(s) would be a good choice for Santa. And good practice for when you get a larger machine.

Darrell told you especially well: get a good and reliable sharpening system of some sort. All God's chillun gots opinions about what works and what doesn't, and what works better than something else. You can drop a bunch on sharpening really quickly, couple of hundred without breathing hard. Get GOOD wheels and a means of dressing them (squaring and cleaning the grinding surfaces). Some like slow speed, some like fast, some like dual speed grinders. I recommend a 1725 just cuz it eats your tools slower, and that's important for a relative newbie. If you're a pro or have a lifetime subscription to gouge of the month club, go speedy. :) The Wolverine system is a dandy system that enables you to reproduce angles and grinds. That's important. Also allows you to change the angles and to document what you're doing. A good thing. There are also homegrown versions of the Wolverine. If you've got time and equipment to create them, they seem to work, too. Not as flexible, but you can build all the variations you want. If you buy a cheapie machine, it's going to wobble like your Craftsman and make a mess of expensive tools. You'll pay less than twice the price of cheap if you opt for a quality grinder. Unless, of course, you BUY it twice, cheapie then quality. Lessons learned the hard way. No repeats, please.

When you buy new tools for dedicated purposes--like bowl gouges or grinders--don't skimp. Buy absolutely as much quality as you can. I can point you to the math if you'd like, but the bottom line is that if you buy the higher quality steels, you sharpen less and turn more, and if you sharpen less, your tools last longer. Better bang for the buck, guaranteed. Buying steel that lasts twice or three times longer for 10-20% more $$ for the same length of steel flute should show you the economy in buying quality.

If I could only have one bowl gouge, I'd want to have an Ellsworth or Irish Grind, probably in a higher priced steel that is frequently available. M2 is typical. Powdered metal is also available. There are also V10 and V-15 steels available that are harder still that hold a heck of an edge. The new Kryo tools are also great edge-holders. If I could get a V10 (high percentage of Vanadium in the steel), that would be my first choice. Second choice would be a Kryo. But that's me. The deeply swept back wings allow you to do all sorts of nifty cuts that are harder to accomplish otherwise, at least with one tool in hand. These are available ground from 3/8, 1/2, and 5/8" rod. If you're working on a 12-14" swing lathe, you can use any of them. Be aware that the farther past the tool rest you work, the harder to control any skinny tool is, and the more apt to chatter or ugly cuts you are. Special tool rests that get you closer to your cut are helpful, but it's more $$$ from Santa. That will also be my own next tool, probably the 3/8", maybe the 1/2"

Delta made or makes a dandy little dedicated 12" disk sander that has a really stable work platform that has a slot for a miter gauge. That means you can build nifty little precision sanding miters to ensure perfect fit for segmenting. Not cheap, but precision never is!

Don't be afraid to ask woodworking questions and never blush when you do. We were all there once or are still there and embarrassed to admit it! We can't learn what we don't ask.

Hope it helps. Keep us up to date on your adventures.