Workbench: What are the holes for?

[Erik De Vocht]

Hi everybody, (My first post...)
I bought an old workbench a few years ago. I have no idea how old it is.
I think it is a French design, like the Roubo bench.
I did not notice it at the time (novice mistake) but the top is convex ,over the lengh, for about 15 mm on each side.
I am going to make a new one based on this design. I will post my progress..

Now in the design stage I am facing a mistry : What are the holes in BOTH sides of the bench used for?
I have looked all over the web and local library - nothing - not a hint.
Anybody got any suggestions?

[Greg Dykes]

Those are so you can put pencils in them and have one handy at either end of the table....

[Ken Stevens]

I might say they are side "bench dogs" but it does not appear there is a vise at the end which would be used to clamp against the bench dogs inserted in the holes. I have these on the bench I use (side bench dog holes that is) but I also have a full width vise with a corresponding hole in the moveable part of the vise.

Ken

[Brad Schmid]

Hi Erik, and welcome to SMC.

Perhaps they held supports for working long stock held by the leg vise. Is there a leg vise on both sides? Or perhaps a way to extend the work surface for larger area? That's my guesses anyway...

It's good to see you've joined us all the way from Gent;) I spend a fair bit of time in the Netherlands (Amsterdam, Den Haag, Eindhoven and Delft) and Belgium (Brussels) and have many friends living in Brussels and Rotterdam.

For us curious folks, how about showing us your shop and maybe some of your work?

Cheers

[Allen Bookout]

Erik, You don't start out with questions that have easy answers do you. I just looked through a book I have on workbenches that have some of the old leg vise types and I do not see side holes on any of them. I am sure that someone here has the answer------maybe. It could be a one of a kind for a specific application.

I was just wondering about the quality of the aged wood in that bench. Is it good enough that you might consider using a router sled or something and flatten the top and then refinish the rest?

[John Thompson]

Hi everybody, (My first post...)
I bought an old workbench a few years ago. I have no idea how old it is.
I think it is a French design, like the Roubo bench.
I did not notice it at the time (novice mistake) but the top is convex ,over the lengh, for about 15 mm on each side.
I am going to make a new one based on this design. I will post my progress..

Now in the design stage I am facing a mistry : What are the holes in BOTH sides of the bench used for?
I have looked all over the web and local library - nothing - not a hint.
Anybody got any suggestions?

Viola Erik..

Based on what I can see in the picture, you have a classic leg vice on the left side as the picture is viewed. The holes are spaced down the side of the table to insert wooden "rest" inserts for a piece of stock to rest on while clamped in the vice on edge. The closest would be for short stock and farther out to accomodate longer stock, etc.

This is used to "shoot" (joint) the edges of the stock with a # 7 or # 8 hand-plane for a square edge as we do with face jointers for the most part now. I have some similar on my bench for jointing edges as a perfect glue joint can be had using that method by placing two pieces of stock together in the vice and shooting the edges that will meet in a glued up panel together. It results in a nice "butt kiss" of edges when you actually do the glue-up.

You mentioned building a new top as it is convex by 15 mm or 9/16". I wouln't as it would take away from the authenticity of the original bench. I would just "hog off" (scrub plane) the majority and flatten it with a #7 jointer when you get it down within a few mm. Some Watco oil and yor're ready to work.

Wood is going to move over time and even if you build a new flat top, eventually yiou will have to flatten it using the same method or something simlar.

Ehbien...

Sarge..

[Peter Gavin]

Hi Erik. Welcome to the forum. Coincidentally, my wife is heading to Belgium this Sunday for a 8 day vacation. I don't believe they have a fixed itinerary except to stay away from the F-1 race. Do you have any must see recomendations for her?:)

Thanks

Peter

[Erik De Vocht]

Thank you for your replys.
As for the question of restoration - I don't think so -
I included a few pictures with some measurements. The outside (both sides) is 42 mm the middle is 33 mm. You can see from the first foto I would need to take at least about 10 - 12 mm off. That would leave about 20 mm in the middle.
An other problem, it has fresh wormholes all over the bench except for the top. They do not want to go away even after 5 liters of anti-worm chemical. AND the top is cover in little nails stuck into the wood. It would damage any plane or routerbit. No I think it is time to make a replacement..
Btw did you notice the crack running from the hole to the bottom? Somebody must have put a lot of pressure on it once.

[Erik De Vocht]

Welcome to Belgium....:-)
Your wife should see Gent or Brugge. And she should have some of our beer...
If she would like a guided tour of Gent please email me.

[Erik De Vocht]

Hi Erik, and welcome to SMC.

For us curious folks, how about showing us your shop and maybe some of your work?

Cheers

Here are some pictures of my Secretaire 'masterpiece' I made for my furniture degree, 3 year course.
It is made of Khaya (African Mahogany). About 200 hours of work.
My wife loves it...

[Jim Becker]

And she should have some of our beer...

Absolutely!!!! Some of the finest brews in the world, IMHO.

[Peter Gavin]

Thanks Erik-
My wife insists that she refuses to be inhibited to a schedule. Plus, she is also going to be tracking with a Mother in Law and two Sisters In Law (to me, actually at least one of them is an actual sister) so thanks for the offer. If you want to pm (private message) me a contact I am sure they will be in Gent eventually and might work up the courage to contact you. Otherwise, it is only thier loss and thanks again for the offer.

Thanks

Peter..

ps. Beautiful work. Don't let SWMBO see it


oooooooppppppps............ I let her see this post

[Erik De Vocht]

Hi everybody, (My first post...)
I bought an old workbench a few years ago. I have no idea how old it is.
I think it is a French design, like the Roubo bench.
I did not notice it at the time (novice mistake) but the top is convex ,over the lengh, for about 15 mm on each side.
I am going to make a new one based on this design. I will post my progress..

Now in the design stage I am facing a mistry : What are the holes in BOTH sides of the bench used for?
I have looked all over the web and local library - nothing - not a hint.
Anybody got any suggestions?


After a lot of work I finally have my workbench finnished. I am still thinking of some additions but it works great. I found a use for the holes (as Serge suggested)
Here are two pictures

Erik

[Phillip Pattee]

It's beautiful. Not much left of the old bench but the concept. I doubt that the initial crack from the corner to the bottom of the bench top came from holding boards on end to be jointed. Perhaps the top was made from boards salvaged from and old building and in construction those mortices held some structual members.

[Bill Houghton]

I like your secretaire. Great wood, and a very subtle disguise of a working desk.

Wish I could help on the bench, but you may have found the leftover marks from a shop solution by some mad but solitary genius who never wrote it down.

[Jim Becker]

Wow....wonderful bench, Erik!!!! And thanks for showing how those supports work. Very kewel arrangement.

[John Goodridge]

Similar to what was stated above as far as using the holes to place a rest or stop, in Eric Sloane's "Home Building and Woodworking in Colonial America" on page 90, there is a reprint of a plate from Diderot "Recueil De Planches Sur Les Sciences Et Les Arts Liberaux, Paris 1769". It shows a bench with a wedge stop at the end of the bench. The wedge appears to be placed in rectangular slot into the side of the bench and end of a board on edge is pushed against it. It is acting more like a stop (restricting horizontal movement) rather than a rest (restricting vertical movement). The text states that the board would be vertically supported by resting on pins in the legs.

On a side note, Sloane's book is pretty interesting.

[Tom Godley]

Great bench -- I love seeing these old threads!


I can see how those larger holes could be very convenient for holding stock in the vise

[Erik De Vocht]

Similar to what was stated above as far as using the holes to place a rest or stop, in Eric Sloane's "Home Building and Woodworking in Colonial America" on page 90, there is a reprint of a plate from Diderot "Recueil De Planches Sur Les Sciences Et Les Arts Liberaux, Paris 1769". It shows a bench with a wedge stop at the end of the bench. The wedge appears to be placed in rectangular slot into the side of the bench and end of a board on edge is pushed against it. It is acting more like a stop (restricting horizontal movement) rather than a rest (restricting vertical movement). The text states that the board would be vertically supported by resting on pins in the legs.

On a side note, Sloane's book is pretty interesting.

John,
You gave some new inspiration... I am going to my local library to have a look at their copy of the French book(s). It's a reference work and cannot be taken out of the building. (I would need a caddy according to this link:
http://www.antiqbook.com/boox/letu/005025.shtml...)
If it's the real thing I will try to make some copies and post them here...

[Richard Niemiec]

Eric: Wonderful job, must have been a lot of work, but its worth it. I was going to build a bench, but decided that the time involved would be too much, and I had too many projects outstanding, so I bought a Sjobergs bench instead and swallowed the pride I would have had if I made my own. Your post sort of validated my choice, as it's a year later and you've finished - I estimated it would have taken me at least 4 months, part time, after work and other responsibilities and I am sure you are in the same boat. If I built one, I'm sure I would have changed a few things from the commercial design I bought, and I envy your effort, and envy your result!! Great job, use it in good health. RN

[John Goodridge]

John,
You gave some new inspiration... I am going to my local library to have a look at their copy of the French book(s). It's a reference work and cannot be taken out of the building. (I would need a caddy according to this link:
http://www.antiqbook.com/boox/letu/005025.shtml...)
If it's the real thing I will try to make some copies and post them here...

Erik,

If you are going to look at the original text, it also referenced "Volume 7 Menosie". I have no idea what menosie might mean. At 60kg/132lb that is quite a book (or set of books).

Good luck,

John

[willie sobat]

Now that is a bench! Nice job.

[Erik De Vocht]

Erik,

If you are going to look at the original text, it also referenced "Volume 7 Menosie". I have no idea what menosie might mean. At 60kg/132lb that is quite a book (or set of books).

Good luck,

John

John,

'Menosie' I think is 'Menuisier' which means carpenter. 'Menuisier en meubles' would translate to 'carpenter in pieces of furniture'. My knowledge of english is not good enough to make the difference between a cabinetmaker or a furnituremaker or is there no difference?

What is puzzeling about your comment is that it is supposed to be Volume 7 (seven). As far as I can tell (and find on the net and in my local library) there are only 6 (six) volumes... Perhaps there are some more volumes out there...

Library visit comming real soon now.. I will keep you posted on that I found.

Erik

[Erik De Vocht]

John,


Library visit comming real soon now.. I will keep you posted on that I found.

Erik

Well, I found the books online!
English: http://humanities.uchicago.edu/orgs/ARTFL/projects/encyc/overview.html
French: http://portail.atilf.fr/encyclopedie/

In the French version I found the following drawing. The bench is a much simpler version than mine....
The link: http://portail.atilf.fr/cgi-bin/getobject_?a.142:25:22./var/artfla/encyclopedie/textdata/IMAGE/
The hook you discribe is visable.: It is marked 'K' on the workbench and the text says it is 'le talon' the heel....

Erik

[Bill White]

Glad to have you with us, and my compliments on the beautiful bench. Now you have to use it. Don't hesitate to show us your work.
Bill:)

[Erik De Vocht]

Richard,

In this thread you can find more info on my workbench:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=1018500#poststop

Erik

[John Goodridge]

Erik:

The workbench plate that you show is the same one that is in the book that I have.

The University of Chicago link mentioned 17 volumes of text and 11 volumes of plates. It seems the original set was published over a twenty year period and the text and the plates or images were published separately.

Thanks for the link.

John