Less Alternative to Freud Super Dado?

[Pat Germain]

LOML has been dogging me hard to make more bookshelves and such. My current dado blade is a real POJ and, after many years of use, I'm sure it's quite dull to boot. I need to get a very nice dado plade pronto! (FYI, I've tried making dados with my router and really didn't like it. I don't have a router table; yet.)

I'd like to buy a Freud Super Dado. However, I'm somewhat reluctant to pony up the $200 which is the price everywhere I've looked (including Amazon.com). Can anyone recommend a suitable, less-expensive alternative?

The last time I was at my local Woodcraft store, the sales rep recommended a CMT dado set. It listed for $167, but at that price, I would feel better going with the Freud SD for $30 more. I can probably cough up $200 if that's the best solution. However, I want to be sure of this before I do do.

Thanks!

[Chuck Lenz]

I have a Freud SD208, I've been happy with it.

[Pat Germain]

Thanks, Chuck. I'll take a look at that Dado. It's about half the price of the SD508.

[Ken Shoemaker]

I have the SD208 as well. No complaints here. Good luck on your decision..

[glenn bradley]

Thanks, Chuck. I'll take a look at that Dado. It's about half the price of the SD508.

Carbide costs money. Unfortunately this means more teeth and a smoother cut equals more money ;-(

I picked up the SD508 with a 25% off coupon at Rockler. It is definitely worth $200 and I would spend that again if this one vanished. At $150 I love it even more.

JMHO, of course that's easy to say now that I've spent the dough. I cried at the price but the pain was soon forgotten and I love this set.

[scott spencer]

The Freud SD208 (http://www.amazon.com/Freud-SD208-8-Inch-Professional-Dado/dp/B0000223O9/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/002-8860438-8457656?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1189466591&sr=1-2) and DeWalt DW7670 (http://www0.epinions.com/content_314538299012) both hover near the $100 mark or less. Both are pretty decent sets IME. The 208 has fewer teeth than the 508 and 7670 but is a good set and is on sale at AMZ for $76 shipped. The 20% discount is applied at checkout.

[Brad Townsend]

Another vote for the Freud 208. I bought it for the lower price thinking I would get something better when I could afford it. I can now afford something better, but have decided the 208 is plenty good enough.

[Pat Germain]

Thanks for the info. I went ahead and picked up a Freud 208D at my local Woodcraft. They had 15% off all Freud products which saved me a few bucks.

I just made a few test cuts with the new dado set. It cuts great, but leaves a very small ridge in the bottom of the cut. I don't mind this at all, but is it normal or am I doing something wrong? I did notice it's kind of hard to get the shims on properly.

[Charles McCracken]

Pat,

The bottom of the dado should be flat across the width. There will be very small (less than 0.008" deep) V grooves in the corners that result from the bevel teeth on the outside saws but these shouldn't be evident unless you make overlapping cuts. Are you seeing change in the depth of the dado causing steps? If so, what saw are you using?

[Larry Browning]

Since money seems to be a major issue, why not look at the 6" versions of these blades. I have the SD206. I have never needed to cut anything deeper that about 1/2" anyway, and the 6" does just fine. I think I got my SD206 for around 50-60 bucks. I don't us one all that often, and a $200 investment seemed a little much for the amount of use it got.

Edit
sorry, I didn't see where you already bought the 208.

[Jim Becker]

One thing with the more value oriented dado sets is that they may not cut quite as cleanly as the premium tooling since they often have less teeth and may not be ground quite the same in some cases. You can help get around that by making it a practice to score the cut lines with a sharp knife prior to the cut and by putting painter's tape along the outside of the cut line when working with sheet goods to help minimize any edge splintering. The "inside" of the dado, groove or rabbit is of less consequence since it doesn't show most of the time and can be easily cleaned if necessary after the fact.

[Pat Germain]

Pat,

The bottom of the dado should be flat across the width. There will be very small (less than 0.008" deep) V grooves in the corners that result from the bevel teeth on the outside saws but these shouldn't be evident unless you make overlapping cuts. Are you seeing change in the depth of the dado causing steps? If so, what saw are you using?

I'm making 3/8" deep cuts in some scrap pine. The dado cuts this very easily in one pass. I'm using a Craftsman contractor saw with an AccuSquare fence.

I'm not seeing V grooves. Rather, there is one, small ridge along the bottom of the cut near the edge (about 1/8" from the edge).

I've made only a few cuts thus far. I'll do some more testing this evening. The dado set is performing very well. I just want to be sure I'm not using it improperly. Does it matter where the shims are placed? I placed them between a chipper one of the outside saws. I get the same ridge at the bottom of the cut without the shims.

Thanks, Charles.

[Michael Weber]

Pat, would switching the outside plates of your dado eliminate the ridge 1/8 from the dado edge?

[Pat Germain]

^^ I don't know, Michael. I'll give that a try tonight.

[Jim Becker]

I just made a few test cuts with the new dado set. It cuts great, but leaves a very small ridge in the bottom of the cut. I don't mind this at all, but is it normal or am I doing something wrong? I did notice it's kind of hard to get the shims on properly.

In your later post you make reference to the fact you are using a Craftsman contractors' style saw. There is a known issue with the arbor on some saws from that vendor where an unfortunately placed groove on the arbor causes one of the components of the stacked dado set to be out of center, thus causing a noticeable anomaly much as you describe. The only solutions are to "fill the hole" or replace the arbor with one that had the issue resolved. This problem is not brand specific relative to the stacked dado set...

[Pat Germain]

^^ Thanks, Jim. I recall reading something about this on another thread, but I didn't know my saw was one of the problem machines.

I'll check my arbor. I can likely live with the problem. I guess I could fill the hole with some body plastic or something similar.

[Jim Becker]

Pat, I don't know if your saw is one of the affected models, but it immediately came to mind when you mentioned it was a Craftsman. And only a small "defect" will cause the problem you cite.

[Perry Schmidt]

A few years ago I bought the Dewalt Dado set. I really like it. Nice kit, good blades and the dados have very smooth bottoms. I think it's easily as good as or better than the Freud, but much cheaper.

I don't know what they cost now, but got mine for around $110. That was when they were new and were really trying to get them in the market.

I've had good luck w/ Dewalt's woodworking blades. I bought another one a year later (rip blade) and haven't used it much, but when I have a very nice blade. I really like their blades better than Freud - which I've used a lot in the past. Still can't beat a Forrest though :)

Perry

[Ryan Hovis]

In your later post you make reference to the fact you are using a Craftsman contractors' style saw. There is a known issue with the arbor on some saws from that vendor where an unfortunately placed groove on the arbor causes one of the components of the stacked dado set to be out of center, thus causing a noticeable anomaly much as you describe. The only solutions are to "fill the hole" or replace the arbor with one that had the issue resolved. This problem is not brand specific relative to the stacked dado set...

That explains the same exact problem I have with my Craftsman contractor saw and 6" dado set.

Good excuse to get a better saw :)

[Mike Goetzke]

If you go to the Jungle they have 20% off on the set you want!

[Jim Kountz]

The only solutions are to "fill the hole" or replace the arbor with one that had the issue resolved. This problem is not brand specific relative to the stacked dado set...

Actually there are quite a number of easy solutions. A cheaper and much easier solution would be a dado clean out bit for the router. You can get one from MLCS (just google MLCS router bits if you dont already have their website bookmarked). They do a great job at flattening and cleaning out the bottom of a dado or rabbit.
A simple router plane works good as does a nice cranked neck chisel.

Jim

[Jim Becker]

Jim, that's kinda what I was referring to when I said, 'The "inside" of the dado, groove or rabbit is of less consequence since it doesn't show most of the time and can be easily cleaned if necessary after the fact.' at the end of my post that you quoted from. That said, there may be some times when that cutting anomaly might be problematic if it's causing a dip, rather than a ridge, right where it would show on the project.

[Jim Kountz]

That said, there may be some times when that cutting anomaly might be problematic if it's causing a dip, rather than a ridge, right where it would show on the project.

Jim,
True true, one would have to take into account the amount of "dip" or "ridge" whichever the case may be for their saw when making the cut so as to leave enough "meat" in there to correct or flatten the dado. Either way its a quick and easy fix for the Op's problem.

[Pat Germain]

I took a look at my saw arbor and it appears I do indeed have the problem with a groove in it. It causes excess play where the first chipper sits on the arbor. I was able to reduce the problem by putting the dado shims over this area. Of course, this won't be possible if I'm not using shims for a cut.

I can't imagine why the arbor was machined this way. How difficult is it to obtain and install a new arbor? The problem it's creating is no big deal for me now, but it may be a problem in the future. My saw is over ten years old. I doubt parts are still available for it.

[Pat Germain]

If you go to the Jungle they have 20% off on the set you want!

Thanks, Mike, but I already picked up a Freud dado set at Woodcraft. It was 15% off, which was nice considering I was able immediately walk out the door with it.

[Larry Prince]

LOML has been dogging me hard to make more bookshelves and such. My current dado blade is a real POJ and, after many years of use, I'm sure it's quite dull to boot. I need to get a very nice dado plade pronto! (FYI, I've tried making dados with my router and really didn't like it. I don't have a router table; yet.)

I'd like to buy a Freud Super Dado. However, I'm somewhat reluctant to pony up the $200 which is the price everywhere I've looked (including Amazon.com). Can anyone recommend a suitable, less-expensive alternative?

The last time I was at my local Woodcraft store, the sales rep recommended a CMT dado set. It listed for $167, but at that price, I would feel better going with the Freud SD for $30 more. I can probably cough up $200 if that's the best solution. However, I want to be sure of this before I do do.

Thanks!

There are any number of cheaper alternatives out there but i suggest you strongly consider the Freud Dial-A-Width set. It's $40 more than the SD, but I can guarantee that once you use it you will never cry over the dollars spent.

The hassle and time of setups is almost totally eliminated and the cut is glass smooth on the sides and the bottoms are dead flat.

At $240 (Amazon) it's pricey but like all quality tools its a real joy to own and use.

[Ron Blaise]

Model H7777 ($50.00). I can't believe the performance I got with it for the price. This is a 3/4 x 1/4 deep dado cross-grain in Walnut. Not bad at all in my book.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/WoodySouth/100_1319.jpg

[scott spencer]

I took a look at my saw arbor and it appears I do indeed have the problem with a groove in it. It causes excess play where the first chipper sits on the arbor. I was able to reduce the problem by putting the dado shims over this area. Of course, this won't be possible if I'm not using shims for a cut.

I can't imagine why the arbor was machined this way. How difficult is it to obtain and install a new arbor? The problem it's creating is no big deal for me now, but it may be a problem in the future. My saw is over ten years old. I doubt parts are still available for it.

The problem first showed up with the Craftsman saws, then flaired up again with the Ryobi made Ridgid 3650. The problem either originated with Emerson or Ryobi...not sure which, b/c Ryobi started making the Ridgid for Emerson and may have inhereted the arbors from them. Do you know who made your saw or what year it was made? If Emerson, it's pre-1997 and would start with 113....if Ryobi, it's post 1997 and would begin with 315 IIRC, but am not certain. Either way, I agree it's a silly mistake to miss, and even sillier to see it resurface several years later! :eek:

It's possible that the arbors are interchangeable. JB Weld has been posted as a very acceptable and easy solution.

Here's a pic of the arbors:
71707

[Chuck Lenz]

There are any number of cheaper alternatives out there but i suggest you strongly consider the Freud Dial-A-Width set. It's $40 more than the SD, but I can guarantee that once you use it you will never cry over the dollars spent.

The hassle and time of setups is almost totally eliminated and the cut is glass smooth on the sides and the bottoms are dead flat.

At $240 (Amazon) it's pricey but like all quality tools its a real joy to own and use. Sounds like a nice set, but my question is, can the set be resharpened ? And if so at what cost ? I use to have a Craftsman Excalibur dial a width dado that no one could repair and resharpen. That blade cost me $90 when it was new. Needless to say I wasn't happy about it. Thats when I bought the Freud SD208 stacked dado set. I wished I had bought the Freud from the start, much better cuts and is repairable and can be resharpened.

[Don Wurscher]

I have a 60's vintage Craftsmans saw with a ShopFox fence.

I solved the problem, by stacking a couple of blade stiffeners next to the arbor shoulder. The problem is the thread is under cut just after the 5/8" lip on the arbor. This causes the next cutter to not center.

Granted with my technique you lose some max width, but this has cured my problem.

Another thing to keep in mind, is if you using a "0" templete, you must cut a new one as the stiffeners shift spacing.

Don W

[Charles McCracken]

Sounds like a nice set, but my question is, can the set be resharpened ?

Chuck,

The SD600 series Dial-A-Width dado sets are true stacks and can be resharpened with no problem.

[Pat Germain]

The problem first showed up with the Craftsman saws, then flaired up again with the Ryobi made Ridgid 3650. The problem either originated with Emerson or Ryobi...not sure which, b/c Ryobi started making the Ridgid for Emerson and may have inhereted the arbors from them. Do you know who made your saw or what year it was made? If Emerson, it's pre-1997 and would start with 113....if Ryobi, it's post 1997 and would begin with 352 AFAIK. Either way, I agree it's a silly mistake to miss, and even sillier to see it resurface several years later! :eek:

It's possible that the arbors are interchangeable. JB Weld has been posted as a very acceptable and easy solution.

Here's a pic of the arbors:
71707

Sure enough, the "Bad Arbor" picture matches mine exactly. Thanks for the info, Scott! I'm pretty sure I bought my saw in '96. It sat in my garage for many years with little use. Thus, it should still have a lot of life left in it. I'll give the JB Weld solution a try. I was thinking of trying body plastic, but JB Weld should be much more durable.

[Chuck Lenz]

Pat, have you tried to find a replacement arbor ? I'd give Sears a call and raise a little hell, I can't imagine that you are the only guy thats had the problem, you'd think there would of been a recall on it. The JB Weld thing I'd be a little leary of.

[Pat Germain]

^^ Good point, Chuck. However, considering my saw is over ten years old and the new Sears saws are completely different, I doubt there's much they could do even if they wanted to.

I suppose I should at least ask about it. (?) Is anyone aware of a successful arbor swap on such a problem saw? I'd be interested in the source of a new arbor.

[Chuck Lenz]

Pat, you never know till you ask. They may have some old stock parts or be able to point you in the right direction. Your saw really isn't that old, it's not like it was made in the 70's.