Minimax MM16 Disappointment

[Bill Reed]

I received my new Minimax MM16 bandsaw on Friday. First thing I noticed was that the cast iron table had a hole in it at the bottom of the miter slot. That didn't worry me too much, because I'm assuming that Minimax will replace the table for me. I put a 3/4" resaw blade on it and was delighted with the performance. Then I tried to put a 1/4" blade on it to try some scroll work and found a problem with the guides. If I adjust the tracking so the blade is at the front of the wheels, then the rear guide bearing cannot be brought up behind the blade. Instead it hits the metal shroud that protects the blade. OK, I thought, I'll just adjust the tracking so the blade is running in the middle of the wheels. Well, that fixes the problem with the top guides but creates another problem with the bottom guides. When the bottoms guides are adjusted rearward, the plastic knob that tightens the bottom rear bearing hits the metal cabinet and this keeps me from being able to secure this bearing at the proper location. Bottom line is that I can not position a 1/4" blade anywhere on the wheels and get both the top and bottom guides adjusted properly. Surely I'm not the first person to try to use a 1/4" blade on a MM16. Has anyone else had this problem?

Bill

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[Gary Herrmann]

A couple folks have ground away part of the shroud so the bearings support the back of a 1/4" blade. Don't recall who. You can probably find it by searching.

I haven't gotten around to it, because I don't use my 1/4" blade all that often.

[Jim Becker]

Sam Blasco has documented how to deal with narrow blades and the guides...this isn't all that unusual. It may be on the MiniMax forum at Yahoo, but you can PM here at SMC. But yes, that table needs replaced!

[Bruce Page]

Bill, check out the MM web video for the MM16. The video is quite long and covers a lot of good info including small blades.

http://www.minimax-usa.com/player_beta/index.html

I bought the cool blocks for mine.

The table casting should have been rejected at the factory.

[Doug Shepard]

Bill
The issue with the knob on the lower guide hitting makes me highly suspect you've run into the same issue I did. For some strange reason they seem to ship it from the factory with the guide secured differently from how it needs to be set up to use it. See this thread and particularly post #32 for the fix.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=31486
The narrow blade issue is well documented by everybody except MiniMax manuals. They're great saws, but this is a prime example of why I keep saying their manuals SUCK. You spent $2K+ for the privelege of being allowed to hunt this information down of WW forums, MM user group threads, etc. They've known about the issue and fix for years yet continue to subject new owners to this kind of junk instead of putting in the manual they send you with the machine.

[Doug Mason]

Not trying to lambast a company, but it simply re-enforces my conclusion that MM in Texas performs "no" quality control (except, I'm certain, for certain customers) on the merchandise it sells. Not unusual in business--as even a 20% reject/return rate is acceptable for some companies

[Rick Cabot]

Hi Bill,

The use of 1/4 inch blades on your new MM16 requires special guide inserts that MiniMax sells as an "option". I have installed them on our MM16 and they work well. You also may need a modification of your blade guard for running 1/2 inch or smaller blades.

Hope this is helpful information and good luck with your new saw. Regarding your table, I agree with Jim regarding replacement. I am sure that MiniMax will honor your request without any hesitation. We have always had great luck with Eric, our sales rep, and the warranty service at MiniMax.

Regards, Rick Cabot

[keith ouellette]

I think Doug is right. I don't know how much a person has to pay to get a real quality machine of any kind. I have had problems with almost everything I have bought since I started building my shop and have had to return some also. The wort case was my Robland x-31 combo. It was a disaster in a crate and lets just say Laguna (they own Robland) has a very poor return policy.

[Bill Reed]

Hi Bill,

The use of 1/4 inch blades on your new MM16 requires special guide inserts that MiniMax sells as an "option". I have installed them on our MM16 and they work well. You also may need a modification of your blade guard for running 1/2 inch or smaller blades.

Hope this is helpful information and good luck with your new saw. Regarding your table, I agree with Jim regarding replacement. I am sure that MiniMax will honor your request without any hesitation. We have always had great luck with Eric, our sales rep, and the warranty service at MiniMax.

Regards, Rick Cabot

Do you mean the cool blocks? If so, the Minimax video on the MM16 says they are needed only for blades smaller than 1/4". I asked my salesman about buying the cool blocks and he said I wouldn't need them. He specifically discouraged me from buying them. I find it hard to believe that Minimax would design a 16" bandsaw that wouldn't work with 1/2" or smaller blades.

[Jim O'Dell]

Bill, I have the E16, the little brother to yours. I had the same thing on it. I did a little modification that was very easy, and I don't think harms it a bit. I wasn't aware of any adaptors, and there may not be any for mine.
Any way, here is where I posted about it before. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=60383
The first post is the before picture, the third post shows what I cut out to bring the thrust bearing up to the blade. There are other posts here that may help you also. Jim.

[Steve Clardy]

I cut off one side of the blade guard so I could adjust the rear roller forward. Works for me.

Sam Blasco made himself a couple of wood blocks that he inserts between the side guide rollers. Works well for him.

[Jim Kountz]

I dont know guys this all sounds unacceptable to me. For the price you pay for this particular saw I dont feel all these "workarounds" should be neccessary at all. The darn thing should be able to take a standard blade size without having to hack away at brand new parts. When you have to "modify" a brand new machine to make it work it just seems wrong to me. Just my opinion of course!

[Stan Welborn]

I dont know guys this all sounds unacceptable to me. For the price you pay for this particular saw I dont feel all these "workarounds" should be neccessary at all. The darn thing should be able to take a standard blade size without having to hack away at brand new parts. When you have to "modify" a brand new machine to make it work it just seems wrong to me. Just my opinion of course!

Mine also Jim. After all the rave reviews, I was very close to deciding on the MM16. (will be adding a bandsaw within 2-3 months, after my DC is up and running. ClearVue on the way) Now, I'm not so sure.:(

[Jim O'Dell]

I guess I don't see these little things as major problems. I see it as getting it to work the way you want it to. Kind of like buying a new truck and getting different wheels and tires, maybe a special paint job, and a pop the ear drums sound system installed. We all modify things to allow them to perform the way we want to. Should MM have these changes made? Probably. But if they have an adaptor of some sort that they sell for this, then I can see that they manufacturer, who is not MM, doesn't see a need. So modify, or accesorize. Just make it work the way you want it to. Jim.

[Jules Dominguez]

The issue to me would be whether the MM16 arrives from the factory configured to accept a standard blade size without alterations, or whether it doesn't. And whether MM cares enough to make the necessary modification after it's called to their attention, or doesn't. And hasn't, over a period of years. Apparently the MM is a nice enough machine that users are willing to overlook this little
peccadillo, but it would certainly dampen my enthusiasm to buy one. Especially if their QC is inadequate to prevent shipping a unit with a hole in the tabletop.

[Jim Kountz]

Good point there Jules. And also for me, adding accessories to enhance performance or to perform extra functions is totally different from having to make modifications to get a new machine (or a new truck) to run right in the first place. It would also be a different point to me if we were talking about an unusual thing here but a 1/4" blade on a bandsaw is not it.

[David Micalizzi]

I had the same issue with my MM16 Bandsaw and the blade guard. What I did is trimmed of a section with a cut off wheel on a die grinder (you could use an angle grinder as well). The guard is stainless steel so the cutoff wheel works well. I was disappointed with a number of items when I received my saw but have worked through all of them. After reading all the reviews about the MM16, I expected a perfect machine but received something less. There was rust on a number of areas on the machine which I had to clean off. The side guides had to be ground with a file to set the tow in order for the bearings to spin the right way. The bottom of my fence had to be ground so it sits square to the table. My switch went bad after six months of light use. Also there was shipping damage to the fence locking knob. Mini Max was great to work with on the switch issue, fence knob and compensated me for my time with the rust removal by giving me a 1” Trimaster blade. There is no quality control on these machines that I can speak of and please don’t get me started on how they package these things for shipping. I wouldn’t move my machine across town the way mine was packaged let alone from Italy. I’m not mentioning these items to bash Mini Max or anyone for that matter. What I’m hoping for is that they address these things so that others don’t have these same issues. It seems as though they don’t care about the finer details when they build and ship these saws. I still think the MM16 is a great Bandsaw it just required more effort on my part to get it adjusted to where I thought it should be from the factory. They rationalize some of these things away by saying “these are industrial machines”, which I can understand. However, I hold these “industrial machines” to a higher standard. That is why I purchased one in the first place.

Bill congratulations on your new Bandsaw, I know when you get the kinks worked out you will be very happy.

Dave

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Did you read this thread thoroughly? If you go to the thread that Doug points to .....It sounds like it's just a matter of having some washers and a bracket improperly assembled and it's not documented properly. My MM-16 should be arriving in a week and I've subscribed to the thread that Doug points to for furture reference.

[Will Blick]

I too will concede, I thought my MM20 was going to be the cat's meow. Instead, I got a machine that had very poor QC. Table was very unflat... wheels had huge burrs on them, a blind man could have seen them. They would cut your fingers when putting the blade on. The jack system to move the saw was completely useless, not to mention, I have wasted countless hours trying to get it to work. The paint was very crude at best, lots of blemishes, certainly not what I expected from a premium saw maker.

So, if you buy MM, be prepared to do a lot of work on your machine....glad to hear I was not the only one here. MM would not correct the table or offered no solutions for the burrs. With Grizz making better and better machines, I think MM will slowly move out of the hobbiest market. My Grizz machines are all superb...granted, I don't buy the low end Grizz, but even so, they are priced more competitively than MM.

[Jim Kountz]

Did you read this thread thoroughly? If you go to the thread that Doug points to .....It sounds like it's just a matter of having some washers and a bracket improperly assembled and it's not documented properly. My MM-16 should be arriving in a week and I've subscribed to the thread that Doug points to for furture reference.

Ken, I read the whole thing. I have been looking at these things for a little while now and honestly I was really disappointed with what I read. A hole in the table? Man now thats pretty raw, I cant believe something like that would have gotten past QC. I suppose they will make it right but WOW.

Id like to hear about yours when you get it Ken and hopefully you wont have these troubles or any others for that matter. I know most all MM16 owners love their machines so it couldnt be all that bad but these issues have me backtracking.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Jim.....I work for a very large company and I'm a field engineer. I install and repair stuff for a living. When you pay more for a product you have a right to expect a better product. However, more and more people are wanting more for less. To keep a product competitive in this marketplace something has to give. For example, my company for years offered a product and it came with all the bells and whistles and there were no options because there was no need of any options....the product had everything anyone could want and the price was pretty well cast in stone as a result. We lost a lot of sales. Reason according to our customers, the competition offered options that they could pick and choose and they, the customer, could therefore hold down the price of the product and still get what they want. So.....we now sell a barebones machine and you can get whatever options you want.

Sam Blasco at Mini-Max on his video presentation points out that the 1/4" blade was at the border of the capabilities of the Euro-guides. When I ordered my MM-15 last Friday, I ordered a set of Cool Blocks for use with small blades.

The hole in Bill's table.....it slipped through the system and I have no doubt that it will be made right.

I'll call tomorrow and point out to the salesman that this thread is going on and Mini-Max is taking a beating.

Take the switch problems Mini-Max was getting hit on recently. I don't know what happened but...10 years ago I had an machine go down. I got it troubleshot to a small chassis/circuit board and ordered a replacement. I didn't even get through the checkout before the new one failed. All my parts come by air and fog in Spokane and Seattle kept effecting the timely arrival of my parts. From Dec. 23-Jan.1 I ordered and finally received a total of 5 of those chassis and they all failed within minutes to hours of their arrival. They all failed in the same way. I troubleshot the problem to a 4 diode bridge circuit in these chassises. With 5 of them on site, I was able to come up with 4 functioning diodes and repair one chassis and get the MR scanner working. After the holidays, engineering found the problem. We had got a new batch of diodes from a supplier and the entire batch was bad. Now I'm the one facing the customer in this case doctors and administrators with egg on my face.....but it really wasn't my fault. The same thing could be said about the switch problem...unless Mini-Max makes their own switches?

I bought the MM-16 because I wanted a machine that was mechanically strong enough to last through my life time and would give my two sons something to argue over...:D I'm sure eventually I'll have to perform minor repairs, replace bearings etc. but the machine should be mechanically strong enough that as a hobbiest I won't have to buy another in this lifetime.

[Doug Shepard]

Did you read this thread thoroughly? If you go to the thread that Doug points to .....It sounds like it's just a matter of having some washers and a bracket improperly assembled and it's not documented properly. My MM-16 should be arriving in a week and I've subscribed to the thread that Doug points to for furture reference.

Ken
Just so we're clear. That thread doesn't address needing to do the blade guard notching for the 1/4" blades. It only affects being able to get both the guides in line with each other and if all you do is flat cutting you probably wouldn't even notice it. It's not until you start tilting the table that it starts being noticable as well as making the guides lean back towards the frame which I suspect explains Bill's issue with the knob hitting. I also don't think they're shipping all of them that way, just the occasional saw. But it sure would help if there was a pic or diagram in the manual that showed the configuration so that victims could figure out how it was supposed to be.

[Jim Kountz]

Ken,
You make some good valid points, I am sincere when I say I hope your saw gives you years of trouble free service. Keep us posted when it arrives!!

[Stan Welborn]

As a potential customer, I don't see the hole in the table as a large issue. Caa-Caa occurs. I have/had my choice narrowed down to the MM16 and the Agazzani B 20. I'm sure both have isolated things that ocasionally happen. I'm sure they will make it right. If ALL the tables had a hole, it would be an issue.

THIS is an issue...


A couple folks have ground away part of the shroud so the bearings support the back of a 1/4" blade...


Bill
...The narrow blade issue is well documented by everybody except MiniMax manuals. They're great saws, but this is a prime example of why I keep saying their manuals SUCK. You spent $2K+ for the privelege of being allowed to hunt this information down of WW forums, MM user group threads, etc. They've known about the issue and fix for years yet continue to subject new owners to this kind of junk instead of putting in the manual they send you with the machine.


the third post shows what I cut out to bring the thrust bearing up to the blade. There are other posts here that may help you also. Jim.


I cut off one side of the blade guard so I could adjust the rear roller forward. Works for me.

Sam Blasco made himself a couple of wood blocks that he inserts between the side guide rollers. Works well for him.


I had the same issue with my MM16 Bandsaw and the blade guard. What I did is trimmed of a section with a cut off wheel on a die grinder (you could use an angle grinder as well). ...

While all this may not be the deciding factor in my choice, it sure hasn't led me to lean towards the MM16. This is something you would expect out of a much less expensive piece of equipment. "Well, I had to do this and that to my saw but It cost a lot less than Brand-X so it's all good"

I understand people defending their purchase of ANY machine. Especially one they paid a premium for. Although I don't plan on using the saw I choose with a 1/4" inch blade, at some point I may wish to do so. And, for the difference you're paying above some other saws, I find it unacceptable to not be able to do so without having to butcher an expensive machine to get it to work. To me that's not customizing, that's fixing.

But I'm only one person, with one opinion. YMMV

[Jim O'Dell]

The other thing that comes to mind on the Mini Max is something that has been said before here. This is an industrial machine. It's not built as a consumer unit. Therefore it will tend to have a few more rough edges than a machine developed for the home user. That doesn't mean that a hole in the table is acceptable!! Nor would uneven tables or fences that won't sit flat to the table be acceptable. And I believe they will take care of those things as quickly as possible.
But little things that can be easly corrected, to me, is no big deal. I think it took me 30 or 40 minutes to make my modification to the guide. Took longer for the paint to dry so it wouldn't rust! As always, YMMV. Jim.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

The other thing that comes to mind on the Mini Max is something that has been said before here. This is an industrial machine. It's not built as a consumer unit. Therefore it will tend to have a few more rough edges than a machine developed for the home user.

Is disagree. After more than 20 years in industry from machine shops to R&D engineering it's been my experience that industrial equipment is far, far better in every respect than the stuff they produce for consumers.

Consumers get lower quality everything that counts, prettier paint jobs, fancier packaging, and more cheap cheesy plastic safety guards.

Industrial equipment in my experience is far better sturdier heavier and more technically polished and precise than the stuff they sell for consumers.

Consumers on the other hand get more cheap plastic parts, thinner metal components, lower quality everything, and a great deal of what the consumer sees is only as deep as the shiny pretty paint.

Worse: Most every manufacturer who makes consumer products is engaged in a never ending quest to cut costs. If they can make the thing with metal only 1/16" thick this year they may try to cut that by another 1/64" next year and eventually it'll be made from plastic and they'll start shrinking that too.

If a consumer wants a high end product that consumer needs to pay one huge lot of money. Usually ( mostly without exception) those top end products are both pretty AND draw heavily from industrial equipment.

[Tom Ruflin]

When I got my MM16 they had solved the switch problem by installing a better switch but it would not allow the bottom door to open all the way making installing 1 inch blades nearly impossible without scratching the paint. After 6 months MM sent a fix. I use 1/4 inch blades on mine all the time without having to cut the guard, just adjust the bottom of the guard to the front by loosing the nut on the bracket at the back of the guard and moving the bottom of the guard to the front a little. It would be nice if they would make these adjustments clear in the manual. Knock on wood, everthing else is fine with my MM16.

[Scott Thornton]

I am the recent purchaser of both the 12" jointer/planer combo and MM20...

I couldn't be happier with 12" jointer/planer combo...

The MM20, I am reserving comment right now, pending some resolution of a couple things...:confused:

[Michael Schwartz]

You shouldn't have to grind metal, re-machine parts, or modify a peice of brand new equipment to get it to work properly. Unless the blade size is officialy unsupported by Minimax it is really a sad thing if you have to modify the tool to use it.

I hope you get your bandsaw setup and tuned nicely.

[Gary Herrmann]

Another option is the ceramic guides from Laguna. A couple people on the creek have done this as well. This is probably the avenue I'll pursue when I have have my next curvy project.

Admittedly, you could expect the saw to work with 1/4" blades better out of the box. I think with just about all machines and hand tools you're going to run into something that you think could have been done better.

Now maybe a Holtey plane is perfect out of the box. I'll never know. Altho, I sure hope I get to try one some day...;)

[Alan Tolchinsky]

I have a MM16 and have never been impressed with the overall quality. My table was very out of flat so I cannot get the blade 90 degrees to the blade. I don't feel the guide bearings can really control a 1/4" blade, just my opinion. There is so much play in the guides that I feel there must be a better way to control smaller blades. I don't know how these businesses work but I feel that quality control is non existent from the US factory. It seems like once they leave Italy that's it until the customer receives the machine. If anybody knows any different I'd like to hear, really.

[Jim O'Dell]

Cliff, what I'm saying is that the builders of the MM machines, and other brands, doesn't worry so much about the pretty paint jobs. They don't pay special attention to burrs. Some of the castings are a little rough. It's an industrial machine. What do most people buy a MM16 to do? To have the ability to resaw at the capability this machine offers. Is it able to do other things? Certainly. Should one be able to place any size blade on it that MM says will work? Yes, I agree with that. Others have offered work arounds for the short comings. I think Sam Blasco's personal fix is the best of the one's I've seen, and probably the cheapest. MM should adopt that and send a block of the proper material and Sam's instructions on how to implement it with each machine.
But on the other hand, nothing I have had to do to my E16 to get it up and running has caused me any grief. Heck, hooking up the cyclone to it was harder than anything I've had to do to the bandsaw. And I know a lot more about my saw and how it is put together for the work I've put into it. But then I enjoy taking things apart to learn how they work. I enjoy the challenges of woodworking, where not everything goes together correctly. (And if you had seen me this weekend, you'd tell me to get another hobby!:D ) There has been enough said over the 4 years I've been on the wood forums to know that these little idiosyncrasies exist with the MM Bandsaws. So why do we still expect each one to come out perfect when we order them? I know this may come across as a little harsh, and I don't mean for it to be-I just can't find another way to say it and still get my thought across. I'm for downloading the user made owner's manual, and get on with using the machines. Bill, I hope MM takes care of the table quickly so you can get on to enjoying what that machine will do. I'd love to be in your shoes at this point. Jim.

[Greg Funk]

Cliff, what I'm saying is that the builders of the MM machines, and other brands, doesn't worry so much about the pretty paint jobs. They don't pay special attention to burrs. Some of the castings are a little rough. It's an industrial machine.

There has been enough said over the 4 years I've been on the wood forums to know that these little idiosyncrasies exist with the MM Bandsaws. So why do we still expect each one to come out perfect when we order them? Bill, I hope MM takes care of the table quickly so you can get on to enjoying what that machine will do. I'd love to be in your shoes at this point. Jim.
Jim,

I'm not sure I'd classify the mm16 as an industrial machine. It is more of a high-end bandsaw for hobbyist woodworkers. Industrial machines need to be delivered in working order. Someone making their living from woodworking doesn't have time to fool around searching web sites and bulletin boards looking for fixes, cleaning up and fine tuning a saw before they use it. They want it delivered, set up and ready to go. That is diificult to do without local service.

Greg

[Doug Shepard]

... Someone making their living from woodworking doesn't have time to fool around searching web sites and bulletin boards looking for fixes, ... That is diificult to do without local service.


The same applies to those not making a living from woodworking and if you're a company that doesn't have local service reps, you'd think it would be a priority to document this stuff since your owners are going to be on their own to service the saw. Updating the manual aint rocket science. I mean really - how much effort are we talking about to take more pictures of current saw equipment, document all the known issues and fixes, provide complete setup instructions, get a MS Word file edited and converted to PDF and make the thing available on your site?? As good a rep as MM's CS has, it's often not convenient for folks working day jobs to call them M-F and those calls wouldn't be necessary in the first place if they'd just address this stuff. I've got nothing but good to say about the 2 individuals at MM I've dealt with (Erik Loza/Sam Blasco), but whoever is dragging their feet on this, or not hiring a temporary technical writer ought to be raked over the coals. I dont mind doing the fixes myself - I just hate being subjected to the hunt for information when I need it.

[Bill Reed]

Well, the good news is that Minimax says they will replace my table. Based on all the good reports I read on this forum about their excellent customer service, I wasn't too surprised about this.

The bad news is that I still can't figure out what they were thinking when they designed their guide system. I have discovered that the bottom guides on my machine expect the blade to be positioned at the far front of the wheels. They cannot be moved back to accommodate a blade running in the center of the wheels. In the picture below of the bottom guides, the 1/4" blade is positioned so that the teeth are slightly in front of the tires. You can see that the guides are bumping into the bandsaw cabinet and cannot be moved to the rear. Well, the puzzle is that for blades less than 3/4" wide, the upper guide assembly can't be moved forward to contact the rear of the blade because it hits the steel shroud.

The only solution for this bandsaw seems to be to run all blades so the teeth are hanging off the front of the tires and to grind off the bottom part of the shroud so the upper guide assembly can be moved forward to support the blades in this position. This really seems like a stupid design to me.

I am curious where other MM16 owners run their blades. Does everyone run their blades at the front of the tires?

Bill

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[Jim Becker]

For flat tire saws like the MM16, it's convention to run the blades with the teeth just off the wheel...there is no crown on the tire and as a result, the set of the teeth can be affected, more or less, depending on tension.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

After reading this thread here is what I think is the underlying problem: People including me feel they deserve more from these machines for the money spent. We don't deserve tables that have holes in them or are far from being flat. I agree some of these things are just a matter of tweaking the machine and I have no problem with that. But how do you "tweak" a hole in the table or an unflat table? It's no fun removing and replacing these heavy tables. ( I've done it twice). They are heavy.

I could go on about all the things that have reported here about these machines. But I'll draw an analogy here. Mercedes has had a quality problem on a lot of their models lately. You spend a premium price and get a car with lots of problems down the road. Do you think Mercedes owners are happy about repeated trips to the service dept? (Just check Consumers Reports on this) You expect when paying top dollar not to have these problems with the product. That's what is wrong here. You feel with all these problems you could have bought a cheaper alternative and been happier with that.

I think MiniMax has to step up their game as far as quality goes.

[Kevin Adams]

I've been following this thread and thought I'd chime in a bit. I, too, was in the market for an upgrade to my old Delta 14" a year or two ago. I looked closely at Laguna and Minimax. The thing to remember is that Minimax doesn't make their MM line of saw. They do make their other line, which includes the S45N bandsaw. This is the machine I ended up buying from them and I have been extremely happy with the purchase. The fit and finish is first rate and the saw works wonderfully--runs as smooth as silk.

Why did I chose this saw? I thought the MM16 was a real beast, but I make furniture and wanted a more refined saw. In addition, I just couldn't see paying that much money for a 16" saw (that was replacing a 14" saw). Now I know the MM16 also has a huge motor and great resaw capabilities, but when was I going to need to resaw 16"? I decided I would rather have the 18" throat and the 12" of resaw was fine. In addition, while I keep an 1/2" blade on almost all the time the saw can take a smaller blade without any modifications like folks are talking about with the MM16.

I just thought I'd throw this out there. If I was going to buy from the MM line, it would be the 20" saw, but do you really need that much capacity? Since I'm not cutting up blanks for turning or real large timbers, the S45N works just great and is a very precise machine.

Thanks,
Kevin

[Dan Lee]

Bill
I need to check when I get home later today but if I remember correctly what I did on my 3YO MM16 is to move the spacer from between the bracket and frame to the front of the bracket and flipped the bracket so that the post is pointing forward. I found this gave a better range of adjustment for small and large blades.
Dan

BTW: This is the arrangement I use with Laguna ceramic guides, I don't recall if I did this with the stock guides

[Jim Becker]

Dan, that's what I was trying to recall about in the other thread on the lower guide setup...flipping something around on the lower guides to accommodate narrow blades. Unfortunately, I've never put anything narrower than 1/2" on mine yet so haven't experimented toward that end...

[Allen Grimes]

I'm not too knowledgeable about them big bandsaws and I am definitely not a Mini Max owner, but I've always thought that the big saws weren't meant for small blades in the first place. I've always planned on owning a big and a small and thought that this was common practice amongst woodworkers.

I'm not defending Mini Max at all, and I could very well go with a Laguna BSaw when the time comes for me to get my big boy, but I don't see this as a problem at all.

Maybe this is just not the saw you were looking for. All I can say to add to this is that you should never buy a tool with the assumption that it can do something that you want it to. Ask a lot of questions and make sure you KNOW before you buy. Thats what I do.

Not saying that you are at fault, but this should be a lesson learned and you should always remember this when thinking about purchasing another tool, no matter how big or small it may be.

[Joe Mioux]

Alan Tolchinsky and Kevin Adams pretty much summed up my feelings about the MM16.

I spent a lot of time choosing between the mm16 and the s45.

Realizing the fit and finish was better on the 45, i still chose the 16 because of the foot break.

I do like that feature.

The problem the MM16 has is that it is a machine that is overhyped on forums such as smc.

It is a very good bandsaw that does have a few flaws.

Would I buy it again? yea.

Joe

[Dan Lee]

Heres a couple pics of my lower guide setup. 3/4" blade hanging over the lower wheel maybe 3/16". You can see there is plenty of forward and backward adjustability.
If I recollect correctly my original problem was moving the original guides far enough back for a 1" blade. I can run a ¼” blade wherever I want on the wheels


When I bought this saw I was so disappointed that there was a minor scratch in the top that would require sanding it out. MM was willing to replace it but asked me if I had measured the flatness. Well when I did it was no more than 0.004” as best I could measure. I thought hmm flat is important … scratch is not to performance.

[Bill Reed]

I'm not too knowledgeable about them big bandsaws and I am definitely not a Mini Max owner, but I've always thought that the big saws weren't meant for small blades in the first place. I've always planned on owning a big and a small and thought that this was common practice amongst woodworkers.

I'm not defending Mini Max at all, and I could very well go with a Laguna BSaw when the time comes for me to get my big boy, but I don't see this as a problem at all.

Maybe this is just not the saw you were looking for. All I can say to add to this is that you should never buy a tool with the assumption that it can do something that you want it to. Ask a lot of questions and make sure you KNOW before you buy. Thats what I do.

Not saying that you are at fault, but this should be a lesson learned and you should always remember this when thinking about purchasing another tool, no matter how big or small it may be.

Before buying this bandsaw I read this and other forums extensively, talked a lot with my Minimax and Laguna salesmen, and read all the reviews I could find in magazines. I also watched the Minimax Sam Blasco video, which is available on their website. This video shows Sam doing all the things I want to do with my bandsaw, including intricate scroll cuts with narrow blades. The one thing I was not able to do is see the machine in person. It's probably a mistake ever to buy something sight unseen. A 16" bandsaw is not really all that big. Sure, it's a lot heavier than the 14" saws, but that just gives it a lot of stability that they don't have. This saw should be able to do all the things I want to do if it weren't for a couple of minor design flaws. I am confident, based on the reports of superb Minimax service, that they will fix my problems.

[Howie French]

while I have not tried a 1/4 blade, I did initially have a problem with a 1/2" blade. The fix for me was simple, where the lower end of the guard is connected to the guide post, there is a screw that can be loosened that
allows you to pull the guard forward, there is about 1/2" of play. After doing this there is plenty of room to bring the rear guide bearing up to the back of the blade without hitting the guard, so much room that I think a 1/4 blade should be no problem. I also run my 1/2 blade with teeth off the wheel.


Howie

[David Micalizzi]

Allen that’s what I did when I upgraded my Bandsaw kept my 14” Rigid for curve cutting and kept a 1” blade on the MM16. The problem was that space became an issue for me as I’m sure it is with most people here so I sold my 14” Bandsaw to save space. Also the larger table makes working on bigger pieces just safer IMHO. The video they show with the machine shows it doing curve cutting. So if it can’t support a ¼” blade with out major modification that is just misleading. Don’t discount the MM16 for your big Bandsaw needs. It has in my opinion the best upper guide post assembly and a great tension mechanism. Also the frame is well built and will handle anything you can throw at it. These are the important things that can't be modified easily. The other issues can be corrected with out too much effort. I considered the Laguna when I was shopping but the upper guide post seemed too light duty to me. If I had to do it over again I would get a machine with larger diameter wheels (20”) so I could run the 1” Lennox Trimaster with out fear of it breaking.
Dave

[Dave Sabo]

Alan, you point out why many Benz owners get a Lexus the next go around. Same we love ya service but their stuff works better out of the box.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

For what it's worth.

The gentleman that I have been communicating with for the past 6 months or so on buying an MM-16 is Michael Kahn. He took my order and afterwords told me of his recent promotion to general manager. In his most recent email sent today, he gave me the tracking number for my MM-16 and told me that employees of Mini-Max were tracking this thread. He said he was traveling to Italy next month and would add the "complaint" here to his list of things they'd like changed. He indicated the factory had been very receptive to change requests as requested by customers.

Maybe the next generation of MM-16s will have this problem resolved.

[Allen Grimes]

To Bill, if you saw them doing things in their videos that you can't do without modifications yes I think it is just fine to be disappointed as that IS misleading like as David M said and you have every right to complain. I admit that I was wrong and I apologize if I offended you.


A 16" bandsaw is not really all that big. Sure, it's a lot heavier than the 14" saws, but that just gives it a lot of stability that they don't have.When I said "when I get my big boy" I didn't mean a 16" I plan on getting a 20" or 24" bandsaw for my next BS purchase that I will use for resawing and heavier duty work, while at the same time holding onto my 14"er for lighter duty and curved work.


Also the larger table makes working on bigger pieces just safer IMHO. As far as safety is concerned, I'm not worried about my bandsaw, but either way you can easily make a shopmade table for supporting larger pieces.


Don’t discount the MM16 for your big Bandsaw needs. It has in my opinion the best upper guide post assembly and a great tension mechanism. Also the frame is well built and will handle anything you can throw at it. I never said I wouldn't buy a Mini Max machine, only that I am not sold on it already. When the time comes, I will buy what I think is the best tool, that may or may not be a Mini Max.