I need a new laptop

[Leigh Costello]

Okay, I have read the threads and am now going to ask -
What laptop works for you? Is Vista or XP working better? Dell or other retailer?

I am up too late once again researching my options, and am now ready to either scream or go to a box store and get the one that looks best.

Anyone have any input? Time keeps on slipping, slipping, slipping into the future....

[Bob & Elaine Robinson]

Get an Apple Macpro. To run your laser install Windows XP & run under Bootcamp. In October or November, Apple's new OS will run Vista under Bootcamp. Apple's sales have been on the rise and they are now the #3 manufacturer in the U.S. - mostly due to a processor change (Intel instead of Motorola).

Many of my diehard PC friends have converted to Macs since they went to the Intel Chip. They now run mostly Mac programs, but also run some essential functions (like the drivers for lasers) under Windows. Windows is extremely stable and fast under Bootcamp on a Mac. You can use Parallels (which Epilog recommends) but it is a bit slower, as it is a Windows emulator. I've tried it with several programs, though, and it seems to work quite well.

One of the often mentioned laser manufacturers uses Mac minis in their lab/tech environment. I was surprised when I found out, because my first enquiries yielded no knowledge at all of Macs being used with their products. The usual disconnect between tech and sales.

I've been doing various tests & calling friends to make sure this configuration will work, as I am getting my first laser soon. A friend gave me a Compaq notebook (Pent IV) which I tested at another friend's laser shop. I'm sure a lot of it was just personal, but my comfort level was better on the Mac. One Mac/ULS laser user I know claims there are some power issues regarding the USB ports on many PC notebooks, but I must admit I have no way to confirm this. All the PC users/shops I have visited were using desktop machines and worked flawlessly. At any rate, just my opinion - not intended to ignite a Mac vs PC debate. It's just the field has been leveled quite a bit recently. However, in the long run, always let needs and finances determine the final brand and configuration.

Bob

[Matt Meiser]

What are you going to use this laptop for?

I've always had Dells or IBM (now Lenovo) Thinkpads. The last round of Thinkpads going back about 3 years were complete junk and in fact between junk laptops and junk servers, we fired IBM as our supplier. The Thinkpads were slow and would frequently lock up for a few seconds throughout the day while the servers would spontaneously reboot.

Lately Dell's home support has been pretty bad too. It took over 8 hours of my time and 3 shipments from Dell to get the media card reader in my home desktop to work with our new 1GB memory card as advertised. Before that it took many hours and probably 6 shipments to get the hard drive replaced when it went bad. I've even heard some complaints from business customers, like one who had every single drive in a server (hard drives, dvd drives, floppy drive) fail over about 6 months. And there was a whole series of Dell desktops that had an extremely high rate of motherboard failures but Dell wouldn't replace them until they actually failed--probably because some of them would make it past the warranty end date before failing.

My brother just replaced his ~3 year old HP with a new HP. He almost bought a Dell, but Dell wouldn't sell him the machine he wanted because it was a "buisness machine." Instead they wanted him to buy a "home machine" that cost $300 more, but was actually a lesser machine. I'd also seriously consider the Mac as recommended above. Even if you just run Windows on it, Apple seems to make some pretty good hardware.

[Mike Hood]

For what it's worth, I've had several Dells and we use them exclusively at work (Boeing), and we also used them in the military (Navy). They're great machines, but at home I've bought Tosibas in the last few years. We have 4 of them here in house. One for each of us and none have ever given us any issues. The oldest is two years old now and is what is on my lap right now. I'd give them the vote for reliability also.

[Keith Outten]

We use Acer laptops. I think because they are an underdog company they use better components and their machines seem to last longer with fewer problems. My Travelmate 4060 doubles as my mobile machine and runs my ShopBot so it sees some rough service. We pass them down from person to person until they are antiques...but are still running :)

.

[Bob & Elaine Robinson]

We use Acer laptops. I think because they are an underdog company they use better components and their machines seem to last longer with fewer problems. My Travelmate 4060 doubles as my mobile machine and runs my ShopBot so it sees some rough service. We pass them down from person to person until they are antiques...but are still running

Acers laptops are good machines. Apple Notebooks are made in the same plant. Buy.com often has some very good prices on refurbed Acers. Given the quality of the components/assembly I would consider that route.

Bob

[Joe Pelonio]

My son and daughter are both happy with their Dells. On the other hand, my wife's HP is a pain. We have to keep the back bottom elevated or it overheats and shuts itself down.

[Scott Shepherd]

We had to buy a new computer before our laser came and I really wanted to finally make the switch to Apple. My parents got an Apple after years and years of PC's, and I loved it. At the time, no dual boot, and no support from any Laser Mfg's, so we had to go PC. I selected Dell for one reason. Support. We got the next day warranty on it and it turned out to be super. We couldn't get a parallel port to work right one day. I went online to their chat, spend about 15 minutes with someone there, then the guy tells me the motherboard is bad and they would send someone out the next day. By 11am the next morning, my motherboard had been replaced, on site, and the problem was resolved.

I know Dell's quality has gone down (and perhaps that's why Michael Dell is now back running the place), but having someone get me up and running within 24 hours is something I can't live without.

That's why we selected what we did.

I'm also working on a quote right now that involves a 42" Plasma screen. Same thing- Dell will have someone out quickly if you pay for it. I went to Circuit City and spoke to them about it and said "What if someone goes bad", and they told me "Well, we'll send someone out to fix it", and I said "In how many hours?". He looked at me odd and said "Right now it's taking about 3 weeks, but that could be longer depending on how busy they are".

I can't put product in my clients spaces and have them down for weeks. I need quick service and I've always gotten that from Dell. Granted, if the product was better, I wouldn't need the service!

[Stephen Beckham]

I went Dell Laptop because I couldn't afford a Alienware at the time of purchase. What I got with Dell was and is a great deal. We used Dell in the Army for the last couple of years I was in and loved them.

I repaired CPUs and Radios for a career and I have found that the Dell is the easiest for me to repair myself. I never noticed that they broke more often than the others we bought at the same time (Acer, Toshiba and HP most commonly).

The only advantage that Alienware had to offer was that it was one of the first to come out with Dual Processors in a laptop.

Eitherway - get that duo processor - get the high speed front end bus and get that 1Gig of ram. Since we heavily rely on video - a nice beefed up video card helps.

One other note - for me the laptop worked out best so I could move between the store and the bus. The other advantage is the dual screen capability talked about in another thread - most laptops have it built in automatically. The ability to have two screens really makes it nice. I keep Photograv running on one and X3 on the other. The WOW factor goes up for the customer adding value to the wizardy you're working in front of them!

[Darren Null]

I got mine from here:
http://www.clevo.com.tw/Default.asp
You'll see a lot of these, but they're often rebadged and pretending to be manufactured by somebody else. It's alienware spec, but not paying for the badge if you buy the right one. The 901C 'gaming laptop' looks pretty sexy.

I've been thrashing the daylights out of mine for 3 years with no problems and it STILL outperforms pretty well anything I can buy in town today.

Definitely ***--> NOT <--*** Vista.

[Nancy Laird]

Definitely ***--> NOT <--*** Vista.

But you almost can't buy anything at all without Vista these days. Dell charged me $99 extra for XP when I bought my laptop in late June. My son just got a new laptop and he's starting to like Vista, and says that in another 6 months or so, there won't be any support for XP. I just don't understand when companies screw around with success!!

Nancy (103 days)

[Darren Null]

Many companies will sell you a 'bare' computer, with nothing loaded on it. Install the OS and load the specific drivers for that machine (from the manufacturers website. There's nothing to stop you formatting and reloading XP onto a machine even if you have no choice about Vista (provided the XP drivers are available).

Vista as an operating system -frankly- is just not ready for the market. To use the popular car analogy, if you sold a new car in that state of readiness you'd be taken to court. Probably by the next of kin.
I'm a conservative, curmudgeonly type when it comes to operating systems and I only switched from Win98 SE because of the excellent driverless support for USB gizmos in XP. As an OS, XP is uncontrollable compared to W98- you cannot be sure that it's not doing something you wouldn't like. Vista is much, much worse. Leaving aside the fact of much more overhead to do -essentially- the same thing (basically, you're giving 1/3 of your computer to Microsoft), the extra DRM features in Vista make it a definite 'no' for me.
"But I'm legal and honest", I hear you cry, "it won't effect me because I never do anything naughty with my computer".
That'd be fine, if it worked. But it doesn't. There's circumstances where the DRM will -deliberately, mind you- degrade your HDTV signal if there's a problem with the software; and that's just one of many instances where the OS will make your life harder because it's deliberately programmed to. It only needs to glitch a bit and suddenly your perfectly legal setup won't work properly, or at all. And when it does happen, you can guarantee that it'll be at 8pm on a Friday night when you have a large rush order to get out for a wedding the following day.
It's a principal thing too- whatever the terms of the M$ EULA says, it's my damn computer and I'll use it for what I please. I will not have some **** in Redmond deliberately killing functionality that I have overpaid for on MY machine if a certain set of circumstances are not met.

It takes me about 3 days to set up a new XP machine, and much of that time is disabling unwanted M$ 'features'. On all my computers, IE, Outlook and the rest are the software equivalent of tied to a chair in the basement...and my computer is faster and significantly more secure because of it. W98 took me 4 hours and I was a lot more confident about security.

An OS ought to be transparent, a stable platform that doesn't intrude much in your life and just quietly gets on with stuff; with things you need being readily accessable. XP ain't it and Vista is even further away from the ideal. Every minute you're wrestling with the OS is both unnecessary and a bit of your life you're not going to get back.

Get a 'cold start' version of XP and salt away all the updates somewhere is my advice. Sure, there will come a time when XP isn't supported, and maybe by that time Vista may even work properly. There's always Linux. Or Mac.

EDIT. Oops. Got on my soapbox a bit there.

[Stephen Beckham]

So ah... Darren - how do you really feel about Vista???

I'm with you on the Vista - but I'll keep my XP over 98. I commented in an earlier thread that the largest two viruses ever put in digits was AOL and WIN 98... :)

The other good one was when they talked of the new OS it was going to be a combination of WIN CE, WIN ME and WIN NT. Take out the WIN and you got what's left - CEMENT. :eek:

[Leigh Costello]

When I began my search, I was sold on Dell because I have never had a problem with their product - this desktop is 4.5 yrs old, my old standby is 9.5 yrs old (relegated to writing papers by my daughter for high school) and is good condition for a Windows 98 computer. I don't know why Dell would charge more to install XP, but they do. I have test run Vista vicariously with my sister and I do not like it. I am going to be using the laptop for portability and to run our other engraver - Gravograph M40. I once had a laptop, but my nephew needed one for school so I sold it to him. So my choice machine is Dell, but I can't ignore the other options. Back to research, I suppose....:rolleyes:

[Mike Hood]

My son just got a new laptop and he's starting to like Vista, and says that in another 6 months or so, there won't be any support for XP. I just don't understand when companies screw around with success!!

They'll be supporting XP for many years to come. There are literally MILLIONs of corporate and government machines out there that require long term support.

Heck... Windows 98 and ME were supported all the way through last year... and they still provide limited online support.

I think what he's talking about is Microsoft's plan to stop selling XP to PC manufacturers in January of 2008. Doesn't mean you won't get support though.

[Keith Outten]

I'm still running Win2000 on my workstations and XP on laptops. Vista is a long way from being reliable enough for business use here.

I have been waiting for years for the equipment manufacturers to start providing Linux drivers for their engravers, CNC routers, printers and other devices. I know there are millions of business users who would move to Linux if the driver support was there for equipment. I'm also willing to bet they would have less tech support headaches if customers were running Linux.

ShopBot, Epilog, Universal....why won't you people listen, learn and wise up?

.

[Mike Null]

FWIW

I recently purchased an Acer with Vista. I consider it one of the worst purchases I have ever made. More so because of Vista than Acer. If I were doing it again I'd go for Sony.

I am using a Gateway desktop, my third and like the others it has been flawless but when they bought Emachines I got scared.

[Curt Harms]

FWIW

I recently purchased an Acer with Vista. I consider it one of the worst purchases I have ever made. More so because of Vista than Acer. If I were doing it again I'd go for Sony.

I am using a Gateway desktop, my third and like the others it has been flawless but when they bought Emachines I got scared.

Wellll, Acer bought Gateway I read.

[Matt Meiser]

I'm not sure on the operating systems, but I do know that frequently when you buy a Microsoft product, the license for that product allows you to run the older version instead. For example, I needed to purchase SQL Server 2000 licensing for a customer after SQL Server 2005 came out. They had me buy everything for SQL Server 2005, plus the media for SQL Server 2000. I realize that it's a little trickier for a consumer buying an operating system to navigate through all that though.

[Curt Harms]

I'm still running Win2000 on my workstations and XP on laptops. Vista is a long way from being reliable enough for business use here.

I have been waiting for years for the equipment manufacturers to start providing Linux drivers for their engravers, CNC routers, printers and other devices. I know there are millions of business users who would move to Linux if the driver support was there for equipment. I'm also willing to bet they would have less tech support headaches if customers were running Linux.

ShopBot, Epilog, Universal....why won't you people listen, learn and wise up?

.

I wonder if manufacturers would lose Microsoft's good will and support if they supported their hardware under Linux. Microsoft can't defeat Linux as they have others by "cutting off their air (cash) supply " per Steve Ballmer so they gotta do what they can to keep Linux hard to use. I think if Linux were anywhere near as easy as Windows to connect to hardware, it'd be time to sell Microsoft stock.

Curt

[Scott Shepherd]

I have been waiting for years for the equipment manufacturers to start providing Linux drivers for their engravers, CNC routers, printers and other devices. I know there are millions of business users who would move to Linux if the driver support was there for equipment. I'm also willing to bet they would have less tech support headaches if customers were running Linux.

ShopBot, Epilog, Universal....why won't you people listen, learn and wise up?

.


Amen to that. Being that Apple's OS is virtually UNIX, you'd think some laser folks would begin to migrate over to Linux, Unix, or any variation. It's a superior operating system from a technical standpoint. I ran UNIX on workstations doing CADD/CAM programming of CNC machines 20 years ago. We had instant messaging, email, and lots of other bells and whistles long before Windows even came out. It's heartbreaking to look at all this new equipment out there and see no one willing to step up and commit to writing the drivers for it.

So sign me up too. Stop forcing us to use a single product and give us the choices we deserve to have!

[Darren Null]

For those of you who want to have a dabble- Ubuntu is the 'beginner's linux', and is quite kind to your head. If photoshop and Command & Conquer went on linux I would have moved over years ago. Yeah, I know there's WINE and other windoze emulators but have you ever read the WINE instructions with a view to moving a major app like photoshop? Life is too short. I want to do stuff with computers- twonking around with computers as an end in itself is a stage I graduated from 20 years ago.

Drivers and suchlike are an important issue- not least because there's so many flavours of linux. The other important issue is choice of software...everybody writes programs for windoze because everybody uses windoze, so you have a much greater variety of software. It's tricky. Whether M$ have shot themselves in the foot hard enough to tip the balance remains to be seen. Probably not though...people bought Win ME.

The other -in my view- major problem with linux and the apps that run on it are the instructions. Windoze apps tend to follow a sort of formula: Overview; features; screenshot; more detailed description (usually in FAQ or support). Linux instructions seem to dive straight in with command-line switches for correcting quantum fluctuations on your reverse sprocket. I've seen linux stuff where I've not been able to find what the program is for after several hours of searching the docs. All well and good if that's the sort of thing you enjoy; but not for me. Computers are a means to an end for me- I want to be able to identify quickly that it'll do what I want (for whatever insane project for world domination I'm working on at the moment) and do it.

[Mike Null]

Curt

I think I saw the Acer--Gateway thing as well. Not sure it's a done deal yet but it might help Gateway.

The jury's still out on my Acer laptop and it really gets very little use so it'll take a while to form an opinion.

[Frank Tralongo]

Leigh,
Been running all dual processor HP's for several years now 3 Laptops,1 desktop all have been very very reliable under XP.
One of the laptops uses the AMD dualchip set and the darn thing gets very hot on the side that the cpu chip is located. Hasn't ever failed (except for usual windows gotcha's) but who nows what lurks in the future.

[Curt Harms]

I really prefer the IBM pointing devices so I just bought an R61 thinkpad from Staples. It comes with Vista home premium. I want it to be dual boot at least, better yet maybe install Vista in a year or two when hardware manufacturers catch up. I find out that certain variants of the R61 thinkpad are easy to install XP or 2000 on, other variants have components that don't have XP/2000 drivers. I think this one may be going back.

HTH

Curt