LV Twinscrew owners - How tall for the Jaws?

[Doug Shepard]

I've found tons of LV twinscrew threads but cant seem to find what I'm looking for. I know you need a minimum 6" tall jaw height, but what are you using? Right now I'm planning a 4" workbench top that would need a minimum 8-1/8" tall jaw if I'm doing the math correctly and give me a throat depth of about 4-1/2". For some reason this sounds pretty tall and I'm wondering about thinning out 2 channels underneath the top for the screws (maybe down to 3"). What's everybody else using?

[Max Lucciola]

My bench is 3" thick and jaws are 7.25"

[Wiley Horne]

Hello Doug,

You're doing the math right, depending on how you'll mount the nut flanges.

Say it's a 4" top. If the nut flange (which is 3"x3" square) is flush up against the bottom of the benchtop, then the centerline of the main screws will be at 4" + 1-1/2" (half the flange height) = 5-1/2" below the benchtop. Then you need another 2-5/8" below the screw centerline to accommodate the thrust plate and its housing, for a total of 8-1/8". So that checks.

Now you calculated the screw centerline at 4-1/2": To do that, you would need to mortise the nut flanges into the rear of the rear jaw (which is a good idea). Edit: Note that if you do place the screw centerline at 4-1/2", then the total jaw depth could be an inch less, or 7-1/8".

I am using 8" deep jaws, with the screw centerline slightly above 4-1/4". This places the top of the steel studs (which keep the work off the greasy screws) at about 3-1/2"--so the gripping depth is 3-1/2". This works, but I wouldn't want the screw centerline much deeper, because you're beginning to lose gripping power at the top of the vise.

Caution: Opinions follow....First, your idea of the 1" deep channels on the underside of the benchtop is very good--in order to keep the screws a bit higher, and therefore preserve a strong grip at the top of the vise. Second, LV's suggestion about mortising the main screw nuts into the rear of the rear jaw is a very, very good idea. What that does is provide direct support for the screw very close to the point where the screw exits the rear jaw--that is part of the solution to jaw sag. My third suggestion is to eliminate any clearance above the screws--use zero clearance. LV suggests 1/16" clearance, but that is going to let your jaw sag, and you can virtually eliminate sag if you eliminate the clearance. Zero clearance does not impair the screw operation, because the screw threads will run always in the same track, and they will burnish the track and run smoothly (they're greased). Eliminating sag is particularly important if this is an end vise. I have photos of the zero clearance installation if that would be of any interest.

One other thought is that LV recommends putting a vertical taper on the inside face of the front jaw--approx. 3/32". This is important, in terms of taking up the slack in the mechanism as you tighten the jaw. For the somewhat deeper jaws you're describing, I would use 1/8". The method that LV shows to make the taper works perfectly, provided you or someone you know, has a lunchbox planer that you can put the jaw through.

Wiley

[Doug Shepard]

Wiley
Thanks for the detailed reply. There's some things there I wouldn't have considered. My 4-1/2" throat depth figure wasn't a calculation but a rough guess eyeballing the manual diagram. I was estimating the distance between the top of the screw and the bottom of the bench and adding in the other known values. I'd forgotten about the steel pins taking away some of that height though. I think I either missed the part about mortising the nut into the back or glossed over it as I thought it part of the instructions specific to mounting it on LV's thinner bench. I'll re-read that but it sounds like a good idea. The zero clearance idea sounds like a simpler alternative to the rub-strip suggestion in the manual. Maybe if the nut flange was mortised in I wouldn't even need the channels or maybe just a small pocket behind the flange? I'll have to measure and check the math and see what that means for the jaw height and throat depth (with the pins this time). One thing I definitely have to check is the size of that nut flange though. I could have sworn I measured that at 2-3/8" square today rather than 3".

One other thing I noticed after posting earlier was that there doesn't seem to be any mention of a suggested jaw width distance outside of the screw holes unless I've missed that too. There doesn't seem to be a dimension given on how far the cover plate extends past the centerlines either. I was trying to work backwards from
(bench width) - (suggested distance from jaw ends to centerlines) = center-to-center spacing I'll need to use. I better get the tape out and do some calculating there too.

[Wiley Horne]

Doug,

I'm going to interline with your post.....



...I'd forgotten about the steel pins taking away some of that height though. I think I either missed the part about mortising the nut into the back or glossed over it as I thought it part of the instructions specific to mounting it on LV's thinner bench. I'll re-read that but it sounds like a good idea. "

LV's instructions mention the mortising as a way to increase the jaw-opening distance. When you do the math, you will decide that it ain't worth mortising to get an extra inch of jaw opening, when you already have a bunch. BUT--if you are concerned about jaw sag, that inch becomes important. Remember that you've got a heavy front jaw cantilevered out beyond that nut. As you open the vise, there is less and less length of screw supported behind the nut, and more and more screw cantilevered beyond the nut. It makes a material difference to get that nut as close to the rear jaw exit as you can--IF you care about jaw sag. By the way, the above reasoning is also why it is useful to have a rear jaw that is close to minimum (1-3/4"), rather than making it big and heavy. The thicker it is, the longer the cantilever, unless you mortise.

"...The zero clearance idea sounds like a simpler alternative to the rub-strip suggestion in the manual."

I am suggesting that, even if you use a rub strip, to let the top of the screw actually rub on the rub strip. That 1/16" clearance that LV recommends just gives the screw license to do that much sagging. But if you snug the screw up against either the bottom of the bench, or whatever spacer you end up needing--you can just about eliminate sag, especially if you do the mortising thing along with it.

"... Maybe if the nut flange was mortised in I wouldn't even need the channels or maybe just a small pocket behind the flange? I'll have to measure and check the math and see what that means for the jaw height and throat depth (with the pins this time)."

The screw diameter is a tad over 1". So it is possible, with the screw directly laying against the underside of the bench, to put the screw centerline at 4-1/2". My vise works OK with a 4-1/4" centerline, so yours will work OK with a 4-1/2" centerline. The mortising would allow you to use 4-1/2". You would end up with a throat depth above the steel studs of 4-1/2" - 1/2" (to top of screw) - 3/8" (approx. offset of steel stud) = 3-5/8", say 3-1/2", which is plenty, believe me. I believe you would be happier long -term if you use the channels, but it is a complication in a couple of ways, and the vise will work with the 4-1/2" screw centerline. But please use 1/8" taper on the front jaw.

"... One thing I definitely have to check is the size of that nut flange though. I could have sworn I measured that at 2-3/8" square today rather than 3". "

I just went and checked mine. Bumped my head a lot in amongst the drawer runners. Anyway, I get 2-3/4" square, not 3". LV's drawings show 1-1/2" as the distance from screw centerline to outside of flange, because they're assuming you'll give yourself 1/8" leeway. My vises are a few years old now, so things could have changed.

"One other thing I noticed after posting earlier was that there doesn't seem to be any mention of a suggested jaw width distance outside of the screw holes unless I've missed that too."

Doug, this is an interesting observation you've made. It's hard to discuss this one in detail without knowing if you're doing an end vise or a front vise installation (I have twin screws for front and end vises). But basically I have found that clamping space outside the screws is very beneficial. I know that the intuitive thing is that you'll be clamping inside the screws. But for many applications, I've found that one of the best things about the twin-screw is the ability to clamp outside the screw. Bottom line: don't be afraid of having clamping room outside the screws. Is your vise front or end?

"There doesn't seem to be a dimension given on how far the cover plate extends past the centerlines either. I was trying to work backwards from
(bench width) - (suggested distance from jaw ends to centerlines) = center-to-center spacing I'll need to use. I better get the tape out and do some calculating there too.

I have the metal cover plate on mine. It extends approx. 2-1/2" (laterally) beyond the screw centerline on each side. I don't see a 'suggested distance from jaw ends to centerline', but I may have missed something. My advice would be, if the post placement is not controlling, to use at least 4" outside the screws just because this is very useful clamping real estate. However, there are other considerations: For example, if it's a front vise, you might want to limit the vise length, in order to keep more of the bench front unobstructed. Whereas if it's an end vise, you want the jaw running from end to end. Hard to get past these generalities without knowing a lot more about the bench design.

Wiley ..... apologetic to have run on so long (it's a favorite topic:)

[Kelly Anderson]

My bench top is 4" and 8 1/8" sounds about right for my jaws without measuring, installed per the instructions. I have not had any problems.

[Doug Shepard]

Wiley
As long as you keep doing all the hard work for me, feel free to run on at will.:D The twinscrew is going to be my end vise. I've got a Tucker going on the front LH (Geez Rob Lee's been getting a lot of my money lately:D ). At the moment, I've got my bench length nailed down at 78" (at least I think it's finally nailed down) but am going through the mental gymnastics to get the width figured out. For right now, lets say it's 26". It's also going to sit on a set of Noden Adjust-A-Bench legs which are 17" wide. I'd like to not center the legs under the top, but set them back as much as I can. The screws will straddle the Noden leg panels. So the setback legs would want a wider screw spacing for the sake of the rear screw clearance, but I also like the idea of having a bit more wood outside the screws. So I've got a few variables to juggle that could include possibly going a bit wider with the top, or having the legs be a bit closer to center than I would have otherwise liked. I think all the help you gave me plus doing a bit more measuring and cipherin should let me get the width figured out tomorrow.
I'll check that nut flange again tomorrow and let you know if I was off or whether they're making them smaller now.

[Doug Shepard]

Max and Kelly (your's slipped in while I was typing the last reply) - Thanks for the measurements.

Wiley
You're right. It's 2-3/4" not 2-3/8" for the nut flanges.

Still doing the rest of the math on figuring out the bench width, location of the legs on the width, and the jaw width.

[Wiley Horne]

Doug,

My friend Konrad Sauer has had a Tucker vise for a while now, and he's pretty ecstatic about it. Money well spent.

One more thought on the clamping space outside the screws, and how it relates to doing dovetails....

It turns out (for me at least) that the best place to transfer marks from the tails board to the pins board is at the corner of the bench, using the end vise. You can clamp the drawer front (to be marked) vertically outside the screw, bringing the end grain flush with the bench top, or a hair proud. Then lay the drawer side with tails to be transferred over top of it, and clamp it down. Tap the tails board with hammer to get exact adjustment, then give clamp one more quarter turn. Then mark, with everything cinched down.

Point: The clamping space outside the screw of the end vise turns the corner of the bench into a great place to do joinery operations (for me, at least:).

Wiley

[Doug Shepard]

Well I've been monkeying with the figures most of the afternoon and it looks like I'm going to end up with a 28" bench width and the screw centers at 22-1/2". That's only going to give me 2-3/4" past the centerlines on the end but will allow me to get the rear screw into a 3-1/2" space on the back side of the Noden leg and gives me a 7-1/2" offset from the front of the bench to the front of the Noden leg. The only way I was even able to make this bench fit in my limited space is to use the single rail brackets and the under-bench area for storage with the bench raised to max height while not being used. Without the off-center leg mounting, there's just no depth to that storage area. Oh well - a compromise driven by needing to share my shop with a vehicle.

[Doug Shepard]

OK - with Dave Da-Man Richard's help, I got the basic geometry of this sketched out and have another question.
For right now, I haven't decided on the joints for the hardwood edging and am just showing these butted but will probably go with dovetails for the LH end. I'm wondering about the RH end that is also the rear twinscrew jaw though. I'm wondering whether I should avoid gluing it on and just use the method LV's instructions show, using the cross dowel nuts to bolt it on? Or could I (should I) go ahead and glue it on as well as dovetail it to the long edges? I'm not sure I like the idea of a thinner glued on table edge then the thicker jaw bolted to that, but if that's what I should be doing, I want to figure that out now as it will affect the plywood core length.
For right now I'm just showing the jaw height without implementing any of the other earlier height issues. And the strange notch in the left front corner is where the Tucker will reside so that the rear jaw face is flush with the bench.

7186671867
71865

[Wiley Horne]

Doug,

Is there a hardwood benchtop over the ply core? I'm assuming so....

I suggest dovetailing the hardwood edging into the rear jaws. For a coupla three reasons. First, it strengthens the assembly a lot, aligns it, and provides an interlock which takes some load off the rear jaw bolts. That is, if you dovetail, with the tails on the long boards and the pins on the rear jaw, then the vise load against the rear jaw is resisted not only by the bolts in the rear jaw, but also by the dovetail joint plus the bolts in the edging. Essentially the dovetails unitize the rear jaw with the edging. As a bonus, that corner at the jaw is a very functional place on the bench, and the dovetails lock it up tight and square and plumb.

Second, glue on the ends is inevitably going to be long grain to end grain, which doesn't do much for you. And you have the hardwood top moving cross grain to the end cap, so if you glue top to end, something may have to give depending on climate. Dovetails kinda solve that problem: At least in my climate, the dovetails have just enough give to accommodate the cross grain movement through the seasons. Whereas if you had steel fasteners tying the rear jaw to the edging, you might need a special slotted washer assembly to accommodate the movement (depending on your climate in the vicinity of the bench). Plus the steel fasteners through the rear jaw would end up probably 4 inches into the edging boards, and it's kinda nice to have a doghole in that edging close to the end of the bench, and if you dovetail, you can put it where you want it.

Now if you do decide to dovetail, please don't glue the joint. First off, you want it to have just a little give. Second, if it's a nice joint, you're going to need to hammer it home with a good-size mallet (given those thick boards), and it'll hold just fine without glue. In fact, it'd be quite a job to get it apart, even without glue. But if you do use glue, once it's halfway home, forget it--nothing to do but get a bigger hammer when it starts slowing down on you. So if you go dovetails, don't use glue, just do a nice sawing job, and put it together once and that's it. I think tails on the long boards, because that creates max. resistance to the load on the rear jaw. You'll be amazed how stout that jaw is on there with dovetails plus the bolts.

Oh, and it looks cool, too. My 2 cents.

Wiley

[Doug Shepard]

Wiley
No hardwood top. It will look like the one Sam did on this thread
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=22081
The DT's like the one's he used were also what I was thinking about using. I also forgot to mention that the black slabs are representing the Noden Adjust-A-Bench legs this will sit on, and I don't have the connecting rail or it's mounting brackets shown on the sketch yet. I'm going to read through the rest of your reply while at work today to make sure I got it all.
Thanks

[Wiley Horne]

Oh, OK. The Baltic birch ply will make a fine top, and I agree to just do what Sam did. Since you'll have no expansion in the core, gluing the dovetails just becomes a practical matter for you to decide. On my bench, I was dovetailing apron to rear jaw, and both boards were 8" x 2-3/4" in cross section. Glue was neither needed or wanted. But with the ~4" x 2" cross section on these boards, two tails and one pin, I would glue it, and it won't present the problem I kinda overstated above.

That's a nice design!

Wiley

[Doug Shepard]

OK. This SU stuff is sloooowly coming to me. I managed to get these done. Dont have the changes in centerline height from the earlier feedback done, but I mainly wanted to check the screw and leg panel proximity. Managed to get my horizontal ply layers cut today as well as strips for the verticals out of what was left. Need to figure out how much I need for vertical strips and pick up some more.

Here's a shot underneath. It's just gonna fit.
71999

From the end.
72001

And got rid of all the ugly butt joints.
72002

[Doug Shepard]

OK - another question. Assuming I go with the zero clearance screw idea of Wiley's, I got to wondering about mortising out the bottom of the bench and setting a strip of 1/2" UHMW plastic into it. As wide and long as needed to make a splipperier rub surface against the screws. Would this make the screw travel any smoother or would I just be wasting my time?

[Bob Malone]

Doug I made the end vises for the twin screw 11 1/2" deep so I could gets lots of vertical support for larger panels. I set the screws 24" apart again to get maximum width for larger panels when building bigger carcass furniture like dressers. With the deeper jaws on the end there is absolutely no worry about the screws and how they interact with the under carriage of the bench.

If you can just make the end jaws deeper and quit worrying about the screw placement.

Good luck,
Bob

[Hank Knight]

OK - another question. Assuming I go with the zero clearance screw idea of Wiley's, I got to wondering about mortising out the bottom of the bench and setting a strip of 1/2" UHMW plastic into it. As wide and long as needed to make a splipperier rub surface against the screws. Would this make the screw travel any smoother or would I just be wasting my time?


Doug,

I haven't chimed in on this thread because everybody else has given you great answers and suggestions. However, I thought I'd comment on your idea of using UHMW as a rub strip for your screws. I did that with my twin screw - zero clearance with the screws contacting a UHMW strip for their entire length and it has worked great. I have absolutely no jaw sag and the screws run very smoothly on the UHMW. Here's a photo.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f343/hankknight/IMG_0237.jpg

I attached my rear jaw to my 4" thick end cap (I wish I had used the rear vise jaw as my end cap, but a design error prevented my from doing so). To reduce the distance from the top of the jaw to the screws, I let the vise nuts into the rear jaw (see above photo). This allowed some flexibility in placing the rear jaw. It was easy.

I absolutely agree with Wiley's suggestion that you go with a 1/8" taper, or perhaps even 5/32", for your 8" wide jaws. I followed LV's instructions and tapered mine 3/32". It's not enough. The top of the vise closes first, like it's supposed to, but I think I would get a tighter grasp at the top if I had a little more taper.

Hank

[Doug Shepard]

Duh - I'd been thinking about no gap between the screws and bottom of the bench (bench bottom as the rub-strip) for a while now, so when the UHMW idea popped up, I naturally thought I'd set that in flush with the bench bottom. I'm several weeks away from trying to mount that, but putting slots in the bottom was something easier done upside down before any of the legs or other hardware was attached, so figured I should ask about it now. Your picture just reminded me that I can stick with LV's more typical install and just surface mount the UHMW - which is less work. Thanks.

[Jim Newman]

Bob, beautiful bench! I have a vise mounting question. I have a record 52 1/2 vise I was going to use for my front vise on my bench I am designing in a similar way to yours. My front apron boards are 2x8 maple and padauk (still in rough form as I have not started on the bench yet). I was planning on making the front apron 6 to 7 inches from the front of the apron back to the maple bench top, but concerned about mounting the record vise as the apron will be about 7 inches wide, similar to yours. This will put the top of the vise's back jaw about 3 1/2" below the top of the bench. Is this too far below the bench top? Did you simply mount the vise below your apron or do you have your vise mounted through your apron? I have laminated stock (glued up red oak 1x4's) for my vise jaws to make an actual measurement 3 1/2" thick by 10 1/2" wide (or tall) and as long as I want, so my vise jaws are plenty strong and tall to do this. Are 18" wide jaws too wide for the record 52 1/2 vise? have a twin screw vise along with a tail vise I was going to put on the right end of my 36" wide bench. The tail vise will be about 6 1/4" wide (front to back) and the rest of the roughly 24" bench width will be the twin screw so I can use the entire bench width to clamp large items with. Does the twin screw work well for a tail vise or does it put too much strain on it? In reading, it seems the tail vise will hold up well for face planing over time, so decided to put both in and have the hardware for the Tail and Veritas Twin Screw Vises. I plan to make furniture, so dovetails and large glue ups are anticipated. I have a large handplane collection and plan a lot of handwork, but also use machines for the bulk of stock dimensioning.

I just need reassurance this is the right way to go as a 36"+ bench width seems wide, yet I do have room for it. I was thinking of using the bench on the back side of my table saw as an outfeed table when needed. Length will be 8'+ by the way. Table saw and right apron are 7' long. My other option would be to use the tail vise on the right side and put the twin screw on the left side of the bench and reduce the bench width to about 30 inches, while retaining the Record 52 1/2 for the front vise. I talked to Lie-Nielsen and they said to just use the record for the front vise instead of ordering front vise hardware as the Record would be better over the long hau. Lie Nielsen has always been great with their advice BTW over the 20 years I have done business with them. Your bench just seems so similar with the wide aprons and metal front and twin screw end vise. Thanks for your help as how to do this record vise installation on my wide apron is worrying me. Also concerned if the tail/twin vise configuration on the right is best as I have never had a bench before. Thanks so much.
Jim

[lou feicht]

Doug I made the end vises for the twin screw 11 1/2" deep so I could gets lots of vertical support for larger panels. I set the screws 24" apart again to get maximum width for larger panels when building bigger carcass furniture like dressers. With the deeper jaws on the end there is absolutely no worry about the screws and how they interact with the under carriage of the bench.

If you can just make the end jaws deeper and quit worrying about the screw placement.

Good luck,
Bob
Have you had any problems making the jaws this deep? I'm ready to install my LV twin screw. I built in channels in preparation for this, but now I'm thinking why not just go under th bench and make the jaws deeper.

[Doug Shepard]

OK - Took me a bit longer to get to this point than I'd hoped but I plan on drilling the holes in the rear jaw tomorrow. I'm probably going to go with 9" tall jaws though for the moment I've left them overwide at around 9-1/2". I'm going to see what the cover height location looks like tomorrow and decide whether to trim it down to 9" or not. I ended up getting hold of 3/4" UHMW for the rub strip. It looks like I want the holes set heightwise so that the square nut edge is butted up against the bottom of the bench. I drilled a hole through a scrap piece and inserted the nut and vise screw and held the UHMW up against the screw. It's about 1/32 or 1/16 shy of being even with the edge of the nut. So I'm wondering if this little bit of play wouldn't be a good thing or whether I should plan on putting a thin shim behind the UHMW so that the screws are tight up against it??

[Wiley Horne]

Doug,

Take another look at Hank Knight's installation in a post above. That's about a perfect installation IMO/IME. LV recommends play above the screws, but I just don't see it. First place, I didn't want the jaw sag. Second place, using the UHMW in a zero clearance mode is like installing bearings to protect a turning shaft. If you allow play, then the nut itself becomes the bearing, and now the shaft (with the vise jaw weight cantilevered out at the end of it) is cattywompus in the nut, which creates metal-on-metal grinding which doesn't have to happen.

What you can do though, to be practical about it, is just use trial fits of the UHMW along with shim versus no shim, and see what you think. You can get a perfect fit to suit yourself that way.

2 cents.

Wiley

[Bob Malone]

Good Evening Jim,

Sorry for my tardy reply to your questions but I never saw the post from 2 months ago. I visit the SMC forum daily; therefore, I would have replied within one day. But if you are still building your bench here are the answers to your questions:
FRONT VISE:
With regards to the front vise I used the Lee Valley 9" wide quick release vise. I estimated the height at which the metal vise would look best in the block of cherry and then measured the top of the metal vise below the bench top. I drilled holes through my front apron board at the exact height to match the vise height to the top of my apron and bench. I did use a spacer of ash to make the vise hardware fit perfectly under my bench top. My front vise board is a piece of 10/4 black cherry which measures 7" deep by 20" wide. I mortised in the metal vise to the solid piece of cherry and drilled the three holes in the cherry block to match up with the 3 holes in the front apron board. Becasue the cherry is relatively soft, I used a 4/4 hard maple piece laminated to the inner face to the front vise, which effectively gave me a 12/4 thick front vise. The actual metal vise is expoxied into the solid chunck of cherry, so the metal vise and cherry block move as one!! There is minimal racking when oerating the vise. I estimated that the front jaws could be approximately 2X wider than the metal jaws themselves, and for my bench this worked out fine. I do believe that the epoxy helped to make the entire front vise rigid - only using 2 large #14 screws to attach the metal vise to the block of cherry would not have achieved the desired result to have a solid front vise with minimal racking.

TWIN SCREW TAIL VISE:
I also enjoy making furniture Jim, but I have my benches on locking swivel castors so I can access all sides of the bench. My bench resides in the middle of my shop, not against the wall. The LV twin screw vise when properly setup is very smooth to operate, but I do use both handles to minimize strain on the vise thread system. My bench is also 36" wide but only 6 1/2 feet long - so we have similar dimensions.

The advantage of the widest distance between the twin screws is that I can drop a large panel in between the screws and when the vise jaw clamps the panel in place it NEVER moves. The twin screw vise operates so smoothly that I enjoy to use it as much as the front quick release vise. Again I will state that go as deep on the back vise jaws as you can, this extra depth gives more holding power when the panels are clamped in. My cherry end vise boards were 12" rough, so by the time I trued them up my jaws ended up 11 1/2" deep which is great for locking those panels in place. I reallt think that the maximum width between the screws AND the maximum depth of the rear jaws really does create a strong and versatile vise system for larger panel work or holding odd shaped pieces like a rocking chair glides or rockers. I used UHMLV low molecular plastic against the twin screw threads, and while this is necessary, it was a small pain to get the critical thickness of the plastic accurate to have the twin crew rotate easily.

Forsaking conventional wisdom, I built my bench 36.5" tall and I love the height!! The increased height eliminated the workbenches ability to work as an outfeed table. Many books said that 34" is the ideal workbench height, but for me at only 5' 9" tall, I should have probably gone with a shorter bench. My original intention was to make the bench taller and then cut it down to size - but I discovered that I like the taller size for many repetitve tasks like cutting dovetails and free hand router work.

I know you have more questions that I probably did not answer, but I don't mind communicating with you if you have more specific questions. Please feel free to PM me for more detailed answers.

I waited too long to build my bench, now I wonder how I built anything without a solid bench with strong vises and dogholes and ....

Bob in Calgary

[Doug Shepard]

Wiley (and Hank too)
Thanks again. Sorry for beating a dead horse. Scanning the earlier posts, I realized that question had already been asked and answered. Reading all the valuable input here is almost as complex as reading the actual LV instructions;)
So A-Shimming we will go.

[Hank Knight]

Doug,

Good luck wih your twin screw installation. Be sure to post pics when you're done.

Wiley,

Thanks for the compliment! :)

Hank

[Doug Shepard]

OK - got the rear jaw screw holes drilled and the steel dowel pin holes. The wall thickness between the two isn't all that thick but should be OK. But when I go to do the same on the front jaw, I need a 1/2" clearance hole instead of the 3/8" dowel pin hole. That's going to make for an extremely thin wall between those 2 holes. Haven't read any comments on this so I spoze it's nothing to worry about, but it sure has me wondering.

I also discovered that at least one of my threaded nut plates doesn't have the threaded post centered on the plate. Not a big deal for vise operation, but it does make a difference in mortising out for the plate. I had only pulled the one plate out and used it to knife the mortise outline on both sides. As I'm chiseling out the first one and testing to see if it fit I see a drastic mis-alignment. At first I figured I just really screwed something up, but after rotating it a few turns everything lined right up. Think I better get the 2nd nut plate out and re-knife the lines on the other hole just to be safe. Fortunately when I hogged out most of the waste with the DP and Forstner I stayed a bit back from the lines so I should be OK.

[Hank Knight]

I worried about the minimal clearance between the vise screw hole and the clearance hole for the steel pin too, but I went with the iunstructions. No problems.

Hank

[Doug Shepard]

There's not any issue with the nut plate post protruding past the face of the rear jaw when you mortise them in?

[Wiley Horne]

You're still good because there's a matching hole in the front jaw inner face that the post can disappear into. There's even some theoretical benefit, because it means the screw has positive support that much further!

Wiley

[Doug Shepard]

I kind of hoped that was the answer I'd hear but thought I'd check before doing any more wood surgery.;)

[Hank Knight]

There's not any issue with the nut plate post protruding past the face of the rear jaw when you mortise them in?

Doug,

Are you talking about the threaded barrel of the nut plate? If so, my vise jaws were thick enough that the threaded post did not protrude through the face of the rear jaw. I don't know what to tell you if yours protrudes through the rear jaw face. I would probably laminate another layer onto the jaw piece to increase the thickness enough to accommodate the threaded post. If you're talking about the 3/8" stand-off post that keeps your work off the vise screws, no problem. There is a matching hole in the front jaw to receive the post when you close the vise jaws.

Hank

[Robert Trotter]

I just finished drilling the holes through my jaws.
78191 The jaws are a bit over 9" deep/high. You can see how close the holes are on mine. I have two as my jaws are 24" centres and I wanted protection off the screws inside and outside. Got extra pins.

I just put the nuts as per instructions.
78192

Robert

[Brent Grooms]

Doug, I can tell you for certain... shim the UHMW. I have to add some to mine as it is a real BEAR when its cold turning the vise handles and there is play in the screws as Wiley mentions above.

[Doug Shepard]

Doug,

Are you talking about the threaded barrel of the nut plate? .... There is a matching hole in the front jaw to receive the post when you close the vise jaws.

Hank

My jaw thickness is 1-3/4" which lets the threaded barrel protrude maybe 3/16" or so. One other thing I forgot about yesterday is that I plan on covering the jaws with leather. I found some very thick buffalo leather which I think is going to completely surround that barrel projection anyway. So I dont think it will ever get to the point where the threaded barrel has to slide into the screw hole on the front vise anyway. So since one mortise is pretty much completed and the other hogged out with a forstner, I think I'll keep going as-is.


Robert
I did drill for the extra set of 3/8" dowel pins but didn't think to order extra pins when I got the vise. Tried to find some 3/8" SS rod yesterday with no luck, but walked out with two 3/8" SS eyebolts that have long enough unthreaded portions that I can cut 2 more dowels from them.

[Jim Newman]

Your response Bob answers my questions so thanks so much! Sounds like you are happy with your quick release front vise as well. I was thinking of putting in a tail vise on the right side and wondering if I should put my twin screw next to it (on the right side of the bench) or maybe on the left side of the bench. What do you think? The tail vise seems to be a good addition for clamping 1 1/2" from the edge of the front apron and that way the twin screw can be more of a face clamp between the screws or to clamp large items to the bench top. Also if I have a wide board I need to saw dovetails on, the twin screw would be just to the left of the quick release record 52 1/2 vise. That way I would not be putting a lot of clamping pressure on the extreme side of the twin screw for face clamping as the tail vise seems better suited to this task. Please let me know your experience!

[Doug Shepard]

Lost a couple weeks to the flu or this would have been done sooner but finally got the rear jaw and last piece of purpleheart attached to the top. Ended up at 8-3/8" high. The top has a wet coat of epoxy/sawdust filler on it at the moment. Managed to slop a bit onto the jaw that I'll clean up later. I'll get an underneath pic once I turn the top over to put finish enderneath.
80128

Thanks for the help everybody.

[Hank Knight]

Lookin' good!

[Chris Padilla]

Nice, very nice! Sigh, one day I'll get to building my bench...one day.... :)