Mini Rail and Stile Project

[Rick Hubbard]

Before I plunk down $112 for a miniature rail and stile bit set, perhaps I can request a sanity check.

What I am planning to do is to create some very small rail and stile frames (4” X 9”), using ½ inch stock. The ends of the frames will be machined with a 45 degree lock miter bit, so that 4 of them, when joined together will form a box. This part should not be too tricky.

The more tricky part (and this is where I need the sanity check) is how to construct the panel for the rail/stile frames. Since I want the inside of the box to be flush all the way around, I won’t want to simply insert a panel into the grooves in the frames. Instead, what I want to do is to cut out the bottom of the grooves so I can insert a panel that will be flush with the back of the rails/stiles. I have attached an image of how I want it to look.


So, here are the questions:

First, how many things are wrong with the general concept?
Second, since the panel that fits in the groove will be solid ¼ in oak, what would be the safest strategy for securing them to the frames (I’m thinking about glue and 23 gauge pins). On a structure this small is wood movement going to be a problem? If so, I suppose I could resort to oak plywood but I REALLY don’t want to do that.

Thanks for the advice

[frank shic]

bill, if you use a solid oak panel, you'll still need to leave a gap of 1/16-1/8 on the sides to accomodate for expansion/contraction. the whole point of using a traditional rail and stile construction is that you can't SEE the expansion/contraction since the panel is held like a sandwich in the groove. tacking or gluing the panel in place would prevent it from moving like it normally will.

have you ever used a lock miter bit? it's very finicky and would not be my joint of choice on door or drawer front construction.

what are you trying to build?

[Rick Hubbard]

First, yes I have used a lock miter bit and I am absolutely delighted with what can be done with them (although I concede that, without LOTS of practice and a good collection of set up blocks, set-up can be a challenge). I've used mine for quite a long time and, just yesterday, ordered a second (much smaller) one from Eagle that is designed for use with 3/8"-1/2" stock.

The particular project I'm working on is a set of miniature sarcophogai that will be used to display and store some archaeological artifacts. It is important for the interior to resemble that of a plain flat-stock box, but for purely aesthetic purposes I want the outside to convey the impression of frame and panel construction on the outside.

The main question on my mind, as I said, has to do with wood-movement. I could (maybe) live with a 1/32" gap between the panel and the rabbets in the rails and stiles. This, it would seem, be adeqate for expansion. Still, I wonder about how to secure the panels in the frame.

[Steven Triggs]

Just curious, why are you opposed to using plywood for the panels? It would solve your expansion issue, allowing you to attach the panel anyway you want. Given that you are going for no gap between it and the rails/stiles, you wouldn't see the edge.

[Jim Becker]

Wood movement on something so small would likely be very minimal. Personally, I don't thing gluing it up as your illustration shows would be a real problem...those things are very small!

[Alex Yeilding]

Why not run a rabbet around the back of your panel, and have a groove rather than rabbet in your rails and stiles? In oter words, make it a frame and panel, with the panel being raised on the back, just with the raised panel being nearly 100% field, and no decorative bevel? Space for expansion and contractoin can probably be tiny--figure percentage movement for wood you will use and humiidty variation lilkely to be seen.

[Ed Falis]

I'd be inclined along the same line as Alex suggests: rabbet the back of the panel to match the backside of the groove, leaving a little breathing space for the panel.

[Rick Hubbard]

Just curious, why are you opposed to using plywood for the panels? It would solve your expansion issue, allowing you to attach the panel anyway you want. Given that you are going for no gap between it and the rails/stiles, you wouldn't see the edge.

Hmmm. Thats a reasonable and thought provoking question. I suppose it all boils down to "druthers" rather than anything else. So, when I really stop and think about- sure, why not plywood. Thanks for bringing it up

[Rick Hubbard]

I'd be inclined along the same line as Alex suggests: rabbet the back of the panel to match the backside of the groove, leaving a little breathing space for the panel.

BINGO! Thanks Ed and Alex. I knew somebody could think through this better than I.

Pics when done!