Planing questions from a fledgling Neander

[James Carmichael]

Tried the "Scary Sharp" technique on a new Anant #7 iron using a sharpening jig on a marble surface (my bathroom sink) with the iron set at 30-degrees to the surface. It sharpened right up, but the microbevel is not straight across the iron, it starts tapering about 3/4 of the way across and almost disappears at the right edge.

Any thoughts? Could it be one of the following:
1. the surface is not flat.
2. the iron is not square to the surface in the jig (my theory)
3. I just didn't work it long enough on the coarse grits to grind the bevel all the way across

There's no question the iron is leg-shaving sharp.
I put it in an old Bailey #7 jointer and tried it on the edge of a pine 2x4. It would shave, but took considerable force to get all the way across a 6" block. I'm sure I need to consult my planing book for the correct frog and cap iron distance, but, with a properly tuned and adjusted jointer, how hard should this be?

This morning, I noticed a marked increase in body hair, and a strange desire to walk on my knuckles.

[Michael Campbell]

Tried the "Scary Sharp" technique on a new Anant #7 iron using a sharpening jig on a marble surface (my bathroom sink) with the iron set at 30-degrees to the surface. It sharpened right up, but the microbevel is not straight across the iron, it starts tapering about 3/4 of the way across and almost disappears at the right edge.

Any thoughts? Could it be one of the following:
1. the surface is not flat.
2. the iron is not square to the surface in the jig (my theory)
3. I just didn't work it long enough on the coarse grits to grind the bevel all the way across

There's no question the iron is leg-shaving sharp.
I put it in an old Bailey #7 jointer and tried it on the edge of a pine 2x4. It would shave, but took considerable force to get all the way across a 6" block. I'm sure I need to consult my planing book for the correct frog and cap iron distance, but, with a properly tuned and adjusted jointer, how hard should this be?

This morning, I noticed a marked increase in body hair, and a strange desire to walk on my knuckles.

I'd go with #2, or the edge of the iron isn't square to the sides.

I haven't used a micro bevel, ever, and haven't found that it hurts my ability to plane. (I also sharpen bench planes at 25*, though I can't give you a quantifiable reason why.)

On the edge a 2x4, a #7 shouldn't present any difficulty. Are you taking too large a cut? Is the sole waxed? (This helps tremendously; after a dab of paste wax, the plane feels like it's going to take off.)

[James Carmichael]

I'd go with #2, or the edge of the iron isn't square to the sides.

I haven't used a micro bevel, ever, and haven't found that it hurts my ability to plane. (I also sharpen bench planes at 25*, though I can't give you a quantifiable reason why.)

On the edge a 2x4, a #7 shouldn't present any difficulty. Are you taking too large a cut? Is the sole waxed? (This helps tremendously; after a dab of paste wax, the plane feels like it's going to take off.)

You mean you sharpen at the same angle as the grind? Hmmm, I thought you were supposed to create a microbevel. Fortunately, those Anant irons come 4 to a box so I can try different angles and see what works. I may repeat with the one I sharpened last night on an old marble coffee table top, which is probably a better surface, to see if I can get the bevel straight across.

No, have not waxed the sole, haven't lapped it yet, either, so that would likely help. Figured I probably didn't have the frog or chipbreaker positioned right. I was trying to take the smallest possible cuts, but, being a newbie, I'm sure this will take lots of practice and experimenting.

[Michael Campbell]

You mean you sharpen at the same angle as the grind? Hmmm, I thought you were supposed to create a microbevel.


"supposed" might be a bit strong. I sharpen at the same angle as the grind, yes. Because it's hollow ground, the actual sharpened/honed area is not the entire bevel face.


No, have not waxed the sole, haven't lapped it yet, either, so that would likely help. Figured I probably didn't have the frog or chipbreaker positioned right. I was trying to take the smallest possible cuts, but, being a newbie, I'm sure this will take lots of practice and experimenting.

I haven't lapped any of mine yet either. =) I'm not a "flat sole society" member; as long as the heel, toe and area ahead of the mouth is flat, I'm happy.

I'm also new at this, so bear that in mind. What I don't know about this stuff would fill volumes.

[Jeff Kurtz]

You mean you sharpen at the same angle as the grind? Hmmm, I thought you were supposed to create a microbevel.

A micro-bevel, as opposed to a back-bevel, does nothing to the quality of your cut. All it really does is make touch up sharpening easier since you have a smaller surface to hone.

As far as the lack of parallelism on your micro-bevel, I wonder if your jig isn't the culprit? (I'm assuming the original grind was correct, which may not be the case.)

Jeff

[Don Kugelberg]

Dear Michael,

I tend to agree with your comments about lapping as they apply to a #7. The plane is commonly used as a jointer so a completely flat sole is unwarranted to say nothing of the difficulty in performing the task without a surface grinder.

I restrict complete lapping to my #4's and 4 1/2's which I use for final smoothing and my block planes. There I think the completely flat soles make a difference in performance.

I, like you, also shy away from microbevels. After flattening the back of the iron and squaring it up, I hollow grind and then hone on a series of waterstones freehand by letting the iron sit on the front and the back of the hollow grind. Its easy to feel in this position and as long as your hollow grind angle was correct, the honing process will follow it.

[James Carmichael]

Whohoo! I'm hooked! I had the frog and cap iron set too far back. With the cap iron set about 1/32 back, it's producing fine shavings and a glass-smooth surface (at least to me). I'm sure I've got a whole lot more to learn about planes and technique, but it is so gratifying to see those curly shavings and a smoother surface than I could produce with sandpaper.

I'm sure there will be many more dumb questions to follow, but here's tonight's:

Should the depth adjustment work with the lever cap tightened down? It doesn't seem to, at least not forward. My copy of "Planecraft" uses Record planes as a reference (I'm using an old Stanley No. 7) and says to lock the lever cap down prior to depth adjustment.

Anyhow, thanks for the advice, all!

Michael,

Reread the part on iron grinding and sharpening, it does mention sharpening at the 25* bevel, says it takes longer, but produces finer cuts, which I would expect from the reduced angle, so I may sharpen one of the others at 25* after I've fiddled with Gramp's old Ward no 5.
jack.

[Wendell Wilkerson]

Should the depth adjustment work with the lever cap tightened down? It doesn't seem to, at least not forward. My copy of "Planecraft" uses Record planes as a reference (I'm using an old Stanley No. 7) and says to lock the lever cap down prior to depth adjustment.

Anyhow, thanks for the advice, all!

Michael,

Reread the part on iron grinding and sharpening, it does mention sharpening at the 25* bevel, says it takes longer, but produces finer cuts, which I would expect from the reduced angle, so I may sharpen one of the others at 25* after I've fiddled with Gramp's old Ward no 5.
jack.

Congratulation on the fluffy shavings. Quite a rush. The first time I made shaving so thin you could read through them I was pretty excited. LOML thought I was nuts when I tried to show them to her. She definitely didn't get it. Now my big issue is consistently getting those nice shavings.

As for lever cap, I've heard the same advice. I believe you're suppose to loosen the screw that holds the level cap down to the point where the level cap is snug when locked but it doesn't take alot of pressure to lock it down. This is suppose make it so you can adjust the depth with level cap locked down. It took me some trial and error to find the sweet spot.

I don't really understand why the book is saying that a 25 degree bevel produces finer shavings. My understanding is that with a bevel down plane the cutting angle is given by the blade bedding angle so as long as the blade is sharp, it doesn't really matter what the bevel angle is. I thought mouth tightness (frog position) and chip breaker positon have more effect on shaving size on a bevel down plane. Is there something I am missing here folks?

Wendell

[Alan Turner]

I have found that a really tight lever cap is a mistake. It can easily be tight enough to bend the sole of the plane a bit. This is especially true on any type of rebate plane, wihere the stiffness of the sole is compromised by the lack of a lateral margin. The lever cap should lock down with a bit of firmness, but the iron should be easily adustable.
In tems of sharpening angle, on a bench plane, with the bevel up, the grind angle is relatively irrelevant, assuming no back bevel. The included angle is fixed at the bedding angle, which can be adjusted higher with a back bevel. I generally do not back bevel as I have a very steep angle smoother for snarly woods (an HNT Gordon smoother).
I grind at 30 degress for a bench plane, on the theory that the angle isn't critical, and there is more beef behind the one atom (: cutting edge. As to the micro bevel, I start with one (sort of), but assuming I do not hit a nail (and I don't) I am able to hone almost forever without grinding, and soon enough I am honing the entire bevel. I use Shapton's, and the 1000 grit does not complain at having to remove a small portion of the entire bevel, even on A-2 Cryo.
As to flattening the sole of a No. 7, I think it is worth the trouble. I recently read a tip in a mag. (can't recall which) which said that for initial lapping, use a drywall screen abrasive, held in place by friction over 100 grit adhesive held SC wet dry sheet. While I have not tried it on a plane yet, it worked well on an old spokeshave iron. The theory is that the swarf falls into the mesh, and therefore does not build up, which can easily cause rocking side to side, etc. I liked it, and will try it on a plane next time I need to lap one.
Have fun reading through those sahvings. It is a nice, quiet sort of high, understood best by knucke draggers.
Alan

[Michael Campbell]

Should the depth adjustment work with the lever cap tightened down? It doesn't seem to, at least not forward. My copy of "Planecraft" uses Record planes as a reference (I'm using an old Stanley No. 7) and says to lock the lever cap down prior to depth adjustment.


It -should- work, yes. If it doesn't, either the cap is too tight, or the plane needs a good cleaning/lubing (or both).

Personally, I like to clean them up. It's kind of cathartic, especially to see a plane that wouldn't hardly move turn into a plane whose every adjustment is silky smooth.