Frustrated trying to turn a bowl

[Stefan Antwarg]

I am becoming extemely annoyed trying to turn a bowl. I am using a piece of dry pine. At the point I am at right now, one of 2 things are happening. When I am near the center going toward the rim, nothing is cutting. When I get near the curve toward the rim, my tool catches. And, I can't figure out how to easily cut away this "nipple" that keeps on popping up in the center. Please help?

Stefan

[Jim Becker]

If your bowl is in "faceplate" orientation (I think is is, but the photo is cropped a little too much to confirm); that is, with the grain perpendicular to the lathe spindle, you should be hollowing outside-in, not from the inside out.

Start about an inch from the center with the open flute of the gouge pointing to the right. As you start the cut that way, very slowly rotate the flute counterclockwise JUST a little as it begins cutting. (Don't rotate too far, especially if you don't have a swept-back/Irish grind as you can catch the top edge very easily) You should be rubbing the bevel the whole time. Sweep through the cut toward the center and be sure to stop AT the center. If you go beyond the center point, you will have a nasty catch. Repeat, working your way out toward the rim and making the bowl a little deeper as you go.

You want to get your rim thickness pretty much set early on before you hollow too much to avoid chatter as the walls get thinner and you work your way down. The best way to do that is to hollow in steps...don't get too deep before you have a real rim on the piece and it's pretty clean. Be extra careful when you're starting your cuts near the rim to avoid "skating"...do this by engaging the bevel slowly and have it rubbing before you start your rotation.

Your cuts should be careful and deliberate, but you should always let the tool do the work. David Ellsworth actually has students doing these cuts one-handed in his three-day class as a practice exercise.

One other thing...practice, practice, practice on scrap logs. Poplar is a good choice, especially if it's "fresh". It's really hard to learn to hollow bowls on very dry material.

One other thing--join your local AAW (http://www.woodturner.org) chapter and attend the meetings. You'll find lots of mentors to help you out. Turning is one of those activities that "seeing" something done really brings you a long way. There are a number of turners in your area, too. You can also see if there is space left in the seminars I and others doing as part of the Bucks Woodturners "Hands On Weekend" training events. (My two sessions are on 7 March) Contact Phil Snyder at pasindigo@aol.com or 856-231-9031 for more information. A couple of miles, but good oportunities to learn.

[Steve Inniss]

Stefan,
Jim's got you covered there. I would add that you need to raise the handle as you do head toward center. This will help you slice off the nipple. It's all a feel thing though, so you aren't going to get too far thinking too much about everything you should be doing. Keeping the bevel rubbing is important as a catch avoidance control. You'll get catches from time to time, just don't let them tighten you up too much.


It looks to me like maybe you were sent screaming out toward the edge by the centrifugal force. Like Jim said you should be working toward center.

Nothing wrong with pine, but it can be grabbier, especially when dry.

I attached a big(16") pine bowl image. That one had a big hard gouge grabbing knot, with soft wood on either side.

Don't give up, it's worth it. -Steve

[Stefan Antwarg]

Because the book I have been reading is a bit unclear on this subject, I have been trying to cut both ways - outside to in and inside to out. I will keep these things in mind. And, I would be interested in some more details about the class you teach, Jim. And anyone else who lives in the Souteastern PA area.

Thanks

[Jim Becker]

And, I would be interested in some more details about the class you teach, Jim.

Please contact the individual I posted about in my previous response for information on the BWT HOW seminars, but in essence, the session I'm teaching is a technique for turning a bowl or vessel from start to finish without reverse chucking. This is particularly useful and quick for small objects. Space may or may not be available.

I also suggest you consider contacting Bill Grumbine, a fellow SMCer, as he is a "most excellent" teacher and offers good training customized to your needs in his Kutztown PA shop. My very first woodturning experience was with Bill a number of years ago. David Ellsworth also offers a great three-day weekend seminar at his studio in Quakertown, PA. I have pictures of the latter on my site from when I took that course back in 2001.

[Dennis Peacock]

Because the book I have been reading is a bit unclear on this subject, I have been trying to cut both ways - outside to in and inside to out. I will keep these things in mind. And, I would be interested in some more details about the class you teach, Jim. And anyone else who lives in the Souteastern PA area.

Thanks

Stefan.....

First of all......RELAX..!!!!!! Work at the lathe should be enjoyed and be almost relaxing. Slow down and see what you are doing with the lathe turned OFF!!!!! Practice with the lathe off will help you see and learn more about tool presentation to the wood surface and just exactly when it starts CUTTING or just when you will get an earth shattering "catch".

If you keep having catches....stop the lathe and repeat what you were doing with the lathe OFF and turn the wood with your tool free hand and do just like you WERE doing and you will find what you are doing to get such a catch. Bevel rubbing is VERY important to those of us in the learning and still learning process for tool control during the cut.

Most of all....stop....take a look at what you are doing carefully. Sometimes just the slightest twist in the tool can make all the difference in the world. When done properly.....the tool will cut and feel like it is guiding itself through the cut....you won't have to aliagator wrestle it to get through a cut. Another thing....sharp tools.....If it doesn't cut well, sharpen the tool....still don't cut well......<b>sharpen the operator!</b> :)

[Stefan Antwarg]

Dennis

Actually, I have done what you suggest. I can see that most of the catches happen when the corner of the blade touches. Still, I can't seem to stop making it catch.

I am hoping that some of my problem is poor sharpening technique. I have been tring to sharpen my gouge freehand - and as a beginner only following the directions in a book, I am probably not shaping it right. I am hoping that when my wolverine jig arives, that problem will be solved.

I know that I am more of a visual learner and I am just going to have to take some lessons. In the mean time, I have to say this just isn't fun. But thanks for the encouragement!

Stefan

[Tom Sweeney]

Just wanted to add my encouragement to keep going. turning is big fun - but sometimes frustrating.

I'm a little closer to you than Jim is - I'm in western Chester County. All of the advice given so far is excellant as always. The best piece of advice was one Jim gave - contact Bill Grumbine. I'm a relatively new turner & a few months ago I spent the day with Bill taking a 1 on 1 lesson. It was the best investment I've made to date in my WW'ing hobby. Bill is a SMC member so you can email him from the members search feature at the top of the page.

The event Jim is teaching certainly sounds like something you want to do, if possible. there is nothing like watching someone that knows what their doing to show you what you need to be doing with turning. I've been meaning to attend the Keystone woodturners meeting. they meet in Royersford, though I think there is a turning club closer to you - check the AAW site http://www.woodturner.org/locals/aawlocal.cfm.

My biggest challenges are:
sharp tools, lighter cuts, sharp tools & sharp tools.

Good Luck - & have fun!

[Dennis Peacock]

Dennis

Actually, I have done what you suggest. I can see that most of the catches happen when the corner of the blade touches. Still, I can't seem to stop making it catch.

I am hoping that some of my problem is poor sharpening technique. I have been tring to sharpen my gouge freehand - and as a beginner only following the directions in a book, I am probably not shaping it right. I am hoping that when my wolverine jig arives, that problem will be solved.

I know that I am more of a visual learner and I am just going to have to take some lessons. In the mean time, I have to say this just isn't fun. But thanks for the encouragement!

Stefan

Stefan....

My tool handling and turning improved noticably after I got my Tormek. I was trying to sharpen by freehand and never had a consistant bevel with the same angle each time. This alone made a LARGE difference in my turning. The Wolverine jig will make considerable difference for you. There ARE various grinds to put on your tools....each one on the same tool will feel and cut differently. I just change the grind angle on both of my bowl gouges and the difference was better cuts.

Hang in there buddy......Turning takes p a t i e n c e and that is something I have to force myself to practice parience. I have too much of todays mindset.....instant everything and here I am expecting "instant" tool control and perfect woodturning. Sheesh.!!!! Who do I think I am....Bill Grumbine!!!! ;)

[Glenn Hodges]

Stefan, get a bowl gouge with an Ellsworth type grind, and a jig like the Woverine Jig to sharpen it. This type of grind and a sharp gouge will eliminate a lot of your catches. Take that dry piece of pine, and put it away until later, get yourself some green wood to learn on. Green wood is easier to cut and much more forgiving than dry. Take lessons from Bill Grumbine, he is a master teacher that is excellent with beginners. Bill was the first person I ever saw turn a bowl. It is worth the money to develop the correct basic skills from a master. Then have more fun than you can shake a gouge at. Hope this helped.