Got the Domino - Thanks

[Brad Olson]

First, thanks to the members who answered many of my questions regarding a Domino Purchase.

I ended up purchasing the Festool Domino with the Trim and Cross Stops and the Domino starter systainer.

http://www.thegaloot.org/forumimages/Domino/FestoolDomino.jpg
I purchased this from Bob Marino, and am extremely pleased with the service I got from him. I investigated a total of 5 dealers before buying from Bob. The big deciding factor was that he had what I needed in stock and would ship the same day as the order and most importantly, he answered all of my email questions within a few minutes of sending them. Several dealers took 1-2 days to respond to my inquiries and when you are dropping close to $1000 on a tool I expect better service.

My big question was regarding the Festool vacuums.

I decided after about 2 weeks of contemplation, that I really wasn't prepared to drop $300-500 for a vacuum that would only add marginal improvements over my ShopVac with a cleanstream filter and bag. Yes the Festool vac is far superior, but for my needs it isn't $500 more superior (to me the CT22 plus hose garage seemed to be the best value out of their vacs).

So what did I do instead? I purchased a 1", 16' Festool hose to plug into my existing shopvac and then I purchased the $20 Sears Craftsman Autoswitch (http://www.sears.com/shc/s/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10153&catalogId=12605&partNumber=00924031000P). For $140, I figured this would be a good compromise since the thing I only really wanted from a Festool vac was the tool trigger. It did have some other nice features, but to my eye for the moment it did not add up to $500 more in features.

So my initial impressions?

Systainers are great. I am extremely disorganized and I love having tool cases. Even better when they have a place for all the do-dads. Snapping them all together is great for my OCD side.

The machine is EXTREMELY well built and EXTREMELY well designed. Compared to my other PC, Dewalt and Panasonic tools this thing takes the cake. Most of this is in the small little design elements such as quick release levers on all the adjusters, positive ball bearing stops on the fence. The indexing pins are a thing of genius. No measuring or marking and you can pop out perfectly aligned mortises. The trim and cross stops are a bit hokey, but the domino itself has places that accept these additional add ons. I don't know if these will ever be useful, but I figured I get them now rather than need them later.

Initial use trials

I had some small bits of cherry scrap and I figured I would just scratch out the joints that would be required to build an end table (later I will give it an acid test with a real end table). I hacked out all the domino joints required for a table in about 10 minutes. The dominoes fit very well (even considering the RH right now is near 100%) and no glue was required to hold my scratch assembly together. The best part is that everything aligned perfectly and I had a perfect plane on the top where the table top would go. No measuring or marking was ever done.

Initial strength. I glued up one of the joints with two 5X30 dominoes, let it cure for 30 min in clamps, 30 minutes without and then beat it with a hammer. Result? MUCH stronger than a biscuit (BTDT). Seems to be on par with a true floating tenon and definitely weaker than a drawbored M&T. I was extremely skeptical about this since I STILL see plans in magazines for coffee tables with double biscuit joints to the legs. I have tried this twice (following a plan to the T) and in both cases at least one of the joints failed in use. While this is in no way scientific, after assembly of the test joint, I feel no problem using a domino instead of a traditional M&T. The only thing I would hesitate on is in places where I would need the strength of a drawbored joint to prevent racking.

Dust extraction. Near perfect and MUCH better than my former Dewalt biscuit jointer. There was no shaving left on the bench period even using my shop vac instead of the festool vacs.

Overall impressions. Exactly 20 minutes after taking this out to my shop, I had all the joints made that would be required for a small end table (albeit in scrap ugly cherry). I also have done this previously by hand or by using a hollow chisel mortiser and tenon jig. Since the domino requires only seconds of set up time it is vastly quicker than the old way which requires lots of fiddling and trimming. In fact I own $400 worth of hand tools specifically to trim and individually fit M&T joints so from this perspective I am very happy. And the best part is no residual dust from the tenon jig sitting on the floor or a huge pile of shavings to clean up.

Now to the big question, is it worth it? So far yes, but I will report back later. I personally do think that festool stuff is overpriced. But with that extra price you are guaranteed to get an extremely nice tool. Festool meets this demand and after making my first joints I am very impressed and a lot of my apprehension has worn off.

Now a final comment. The domino is making a lot of noise. However, early on I built a router jig to make floating tenon joints quickly. With a bit of improvement there is no reason why the domino is better than this approach. If you are on a budget, but some metric router bits corresponding to the domino sizes and build a mortise jig for you router and buy dominoes. The dominoes are so cheap and well machined that they are worth it. I would consider this a fair compromise for those wanting the speed of the domino without the $$ to buy the machine.

Anyway, I am looking forward to hacking out a few projects with this tool. So far it is quite nice to use.

[frank shic]

alright brad, THANKS A LOT for putting yet another tool on my future purchase list :D

[Scott Coffelt]

Great review. I've had mine for awhile now. I would love to say it gets used all the time, but considering I reall yhave not done anything in my shop except for cutting exterior trim for windows and also trmming out the interior windows. I have used it about 8 times so far and it has been all that I ask. I have some fall furniture projects int he works, so it will get used heavily then.

[Don Bullock]

alright brad, THANKS A LOT for putting yet another tool on my future purchase list :D

I agree with Frank on this one. SWMBO is not going to like this so I'll have to put off the purchase at least until sometime next year.;) She has been very supportative this year with all my tool purchases so I don't want to push my luck just yet.

Brad, your review is excellent.

Congratulations!!!!

[John Stevens]

But with that extra price you are guaranteed to get an extremely nice tool.

Brad, glad you like the Domino. I hope it never needs service, but if so you'll see that some of the high purchase price goes to pay for the excellent service that Festool provides. I own about ten Festools, and as expensive as they are, I've gotten all I've paid for.

Regards,

John

[frank shic]

don, i think the key is to try to get the delivery to coincide with a day that SWMBO will be out of town or away in the afternoon when that loveable brown truck shows up. at least, that's what i'm hoping for next week when my bosch 4000 shows up - it's going to be challenging trying to hide that beast in the garage where she won't see it!

[Brad Olson]

I sort of asked for permission, however, I mentioned it was "expensive" but never gave a number on HOW expensive.

As a hobbiest this is one of the most expensive single purchases I have made but again after messing with it again this morning, I don't regret spending the money so far. It has a 30 day no questions return policy which is comforting.

[Ray Knight]

I started playing with my domino jointer today. Generally pleased. Instructions aren't all that good. The storage boxes remind me of airline meal serving modules. Fit together nice, bit awkward to open. BUT when you put a locating bracket on the tool, they won't fit back in the storage case. DAMN. You need to disassemble the damn thing, or arrange some other storage. And if you have it set up for a cut you are going to use a few times each day, you sure don't want to disassemble it. So you have that fancy storage box and you can't use it. Ray Knight

[Dan Clark]

Ray,

First check on the Festool Owners Group dot com forum. Lots of good help and feedback there.

Then, check out the FestoolUSA dot com website. Under the green "Applications & Tips" tab, you'll find "Getting the most from the Festool Domino Machine by Jerry Work" and several other excellent Domino documents.

Festool makes good tools, but their documentation is somewhat less than optimal. The two resources above should help.

Dan.

[Brad Olson]

It came with a manual :rolleyes:;)?!

Festool owners group is where I am learning most and they too complain about the lack of a manual commensurate with the cost of the tool.

There is however, a great manual link on Bob Marino's website "Getting the Most out of your domino" or something like that. It is under the "Tips" section

[Rick Christopherson]

Brad, try this http://festool.home.att.net/

[Brad Olson]

Brad, try this http://festool.home.att.net/

Rick,

Thanks, that is a MUCH, MUCH better manual!

Brad

[Andy Coverdale]

For applications where you want a drawbored tenon just use the domino for the mortise; then cut the tenon as usual with a saw of some kind.

Andy

[Don Bullock]

don, i think the key is to try to get the delivery to coincide with a day that SWMBO will be out of town or away in the afternoon when that loveable brown truck shows up. at least, that's what i'm hoping for next week when my bosch 4000 shows up - it's going to be challenging trying to hide that beast in the garage where she won't see it!

Frank,
Not a chance. At our house SWMBO pays all the bills.:eek: Please understand that I'm not hurting for tools or a tool budget, especially this year - bband saw, bench top mortiser, 8" jointer, bench top drill press, 13" planer and a SawStop. Besides, for some strange reason, that Brown Truck usually delivers right after dinner at our house.;)

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Brad, try this http://festool.home.att.net/

Thanks! Though I have used my Domino pretty extensively in the last few months, this manual would have been a God send back upon inital set up and use of the machine.

[frank shic]

Frank,
Not a chance. At our house SWMBO pays all the bills.:eek: Please understand that I'm not hurting for tools or a tool budget, especially this year - bband saw, bench top mortiser, 8" jointer, bench top drill press, 13" planer and a SawStop. Besides, for some strange reason, that Brown Truck usually delivers right after dinner at our house.;)

huh, i thought i was the only guy who's wife paid the bills! i wish you could somehow tell the UPS guy to try to hide the box as much as possible and not to ring the doorbell. i just calculated that it would take five days to ship from new jersey to california. i promise myself not to buy another tool for the rest of this month...

[Greg Cole]

Pssst Frank.... the big brown truck will deliver to a business address ie you work. Unless youwork from home....:rolleyes:
I've been on the fence about a Domino for awhile & still trying to decide if I want to soend the $ on a package with one of the CT vac's etc. Maybe I'll wait to see what Santa puts in the envelope at work 'round Christmas (last years was spent on Neander tools, so maybe a 180* switch for this year?). It's an expensive itch that hasn't subsided for 6 months or so.
I will admit I I can see a use for one almost every time I am in the shop unless the shop time is stock prep or project finishing. Is that my way of justifying it or trying to...???:confused:

Greg

[Scott Coffelt]

As I re-read this, one thing I did on my Dewalt Jointer was break the small tab in the dust chute. Ever since, I have had zero wood chips escape the vac. I found before the tab would cause the chips to get caught and reduce air flow.

Now that I have the Domino though, I've not pulled the Dewalt out of the box. I have kept it thinking I would need at some point. But nope.

[frank shic]

i've recently sold off $200 worth of tools on ebay and i'm returning the vitamix blender that my mom bought me as a birthday present from costco for a little over $300 so i think i'll feel a little bit better about this next hit. good idea about having it delivered to work greg, but the mail office at my institution is so incompetent that i wouldn't want to take any chances!

[Gary Keedwell]

i've recently sold off $200 worth of tools on ebay and i'm returning the vitamix blender that my mom bought me as a birthday present from costco for a little over $300 so i think i'll feel a little bit better about this next hit. good idea about having it delivered to work greg, but the mail office at my institution is so incompetent that i wouldn't want to take any chances!
Hey Frank, I'd think twice about returning the Vita mix. We have the old stainless steel model of 20 years ago and I can tell you for certain that it makes the best Pina colada I ever had.:eek: :) Note: Been "on the wagon " for a couple of years but gonna keep it around just in case.:p
Gary

[frank shic]

gary, is the vitamix THAT MUCH BETTER than a regular blender? well guys, it looks like i'll have to wait at least another week or two. this guy on craigslist is willing to meet up with me in sacramento to offload his performax drum sander :D

[Gary Keedwell]

Well Frank, to be frank with you:p LOML bought hers 20 years ago and I don't know how the competition is building them now a days. She used to make bread, soups,etc. We used to take those little frozen cans of Pina colada (they have alot of different ones today) and a bunch of Ice cubes and a can or two of Captain Rum and In a minute or so you had the creamy firm drink that your spoon could stand straight up in it.
Man when I had parties...they loved it.

Gary

[jason lambert]

All I have to say is I don't use this tool every but it is one of my staple tools that makes the job a whole lot easer and faster. Don't know what I would do with out it.

[Jesse Cloud]

This is probably a dumb question, but if you like drawbored m&t, why couldn't you drawbore a domino??

[Gary Keedwell]

All I have to say is I don't use this tool every but it is one of my staple tools that makes the job a whole lot easer and faster. Don't know what I would do with out it.
Jason ...don't want to sound facetious, but you don't know what you would do without it? :confused: :) Man, I'm not even going to respond to that........Anyways have a great day, guy.:) Go Pats!!!!!
Gary

[Vijay Kumar]

Pssst Frank.... the big brown truck will deliver to a business address ie you work. Unless you work from home....:rolleyes: :confused:
Greg

Psst Frank and Greg. You can have the shipment delivered the the UPS station near you and then go an pick it up at your convenience.

[frank shic]

vijay, GREAT IDEA. i think i'll have to look into that option...;)

[Greg Cole]

Big brown truck comes to my work twice a day....
He dislikes my lumber bundles for some reason :D

Greg

[frank shic]

Big brown truck comes to my work twice a day....
He dislikes my lumber bundles for some reason :D

Greg

that's because he's envious!

[Matt Meiser]

So Brad, how are you feeling about your purchase after 4 months? Has it completely replaced the biscuit jointer and mortiser your sold?

[Brad Olson]

Yes, I love it! Once you get the hang of how to use the machine effectively, it saves a TON of time and really opens a lot of creative avenues for de novo work.

Previously, my biggest problem with a biscuit jointer was either of the following...

A) The biscuit slot was too wide for the application and using the small biscuits were too weak.
B) The biscuit was too weak for the intended application. I.e. not a replacement for M&T joints

so far some of the things I have made with it include...

-Plywood drawers for the shop
-Several end tables for a charity auction (here in a "production" mode, it saved at least 2 days work over cutting the M&T's by other methods into the aprons and legs)
-Clocks
-Other small things that would normally use a M&T or a biscuit
-Several panel glue-ups where I needed the alignment that would traditionally use a biscuit. 5 mm dominoes work better than biscuits for alignment IMHO. Further, I just draw 2-3 pencil lines across the joint for the alignment slots instead of using the built in alignment pins.


Where it has exceeded my expectations the most is the ability to build something from the scrap bin without any plans or for prototyping. It really changes your though process when you can stick a M&T joint in just about any place as you work, so for that quick project from the scrap bin, or for prototyping, it really saves a lot of time and opens up some creative avenues.

Dust collection is fantastic too!

I decided to just use my shop vac with a festool hose and a craftsman autostarter. It is probably not as good as a festool vac setup but at the end of the day I couldn't see myself dropping $400+ on a vacuum, especially considering how dirty my shop is anyway.

[Chris Padilla]

This is probably a dumb question, but if you like drawbored m&t, why couldn't you drawbore a domino??

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/SkillsandTechniques/SkillsandTechniquesArticle.aspx?id=28508

Unless you glue the domino into one of the mating pieces FIRST and then allow it to dry, I don't see how you can use a domino for a drawbored M&T joint. So, it could still be done...just a bit slow, I think. However, perhaps it is a good test for the glue! :)