Bosch Lawsuit?

[Dave Lehnert]

I received a post card in the mail something about a class action lawsuit against Bosch tools saying some tools were made in the USA but were not. I only own a Bosch Jig saw so that may be the tool affected.
I lost the card I received in the mail. Anyone have any info on this? Any truth to this story?

[Charles Wilson]

I threw mine away that I got.

Chuck

[Bill Huber]

I looked at it and it went right in the trash.

I think things like that are just a waste of time and a lot of money.
I can understand one that is for something that has really hurt a lot of people but this one hurt no one.

[Dave Lehnert]

I looked at it and it went right in the trash.

I think things like that are just a waste of time and a lot of money.
I can understand one that is for something that has really hurt a lot of people but this one hurt no one.

I got it some time ago. Just happend to think of it tonight. Was no big deal to me.

[Bob Aquino]

I received a post card in the mail something about a class action lawsuit against Bosch tools saying some tools were made in the USA but were not. I only own a Bosch Jig saw so that may be the tool affected.
I lost the card I received in the mail. Anyone have any info on this? Any truth to this story?

Hoping this doesn't violate TOS, but here is a link that talks about it: http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/settlements/08141/robert-bosch-tool.html

Bottom line is you get a 10$ coupon good for one year. Now I have about 4 or 5 bosch tools and I never got anything in the mail. Guess I will have to send the registration cards in from now on...:rolleyes:

[James Suzda]

As with so many of these large “class action” lawsuits only the people making the money are the lawyers who “handled” the lawsuit! I seem to remember another class action suit where as the public who were made whole received about $.25 and the lawyers made millions!
Jim

[Jeff Raymond]

Throw it away and go build something.

[Maurice Ungaro]

We're a litigeous society, aren't we?

[Quinn McCarthy]

I have several Bosch tools. I have never had a problem with any of them. They just keep going and going. I am still amazed at the Bosch jig saw. Who cares where they are built.

I wouldn't jump in if I got a card.

Quinn

[Matt Meiser]

Now that this is a settled suit, wouldn't the lawyers make out further by people NOT applying for their "share" of the settlement? If not, who gets money not distributed? The link above says "Any unpaid residual will be used to further the purposes of the underlying causes of action as set forth in the detailed notice and approved by the court." That sounds like lawyer talk to me for the lawyers get it?

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

You can opt out of a class. That's what the notice is for. It provides you notice of the class and opportunity to opt out.

Do nothing and you are part of the class and once the matter is settled your ability to sue on your own is severely restricted if not closed entirely because of the doctrine of claim preclusion.

Class actions are a great thing~!!!

Liken class actions to the police. Police do their jobs correctly as well as incorrectly. And it's a job that most everyone agrees needs to be done. Which is why we put up with it when they do it wrongly.

The goal of class actions is to set the stage to expose corporate wrong doers to punishment who have harmed an unmanageably large group of people and to provide some measure of justice for society by causing the offender corporation to pay substantial sums in damages and suit costs and fees.

The experts in the litigation chew through tons of the money, so to the lawyers and the process of discovery is usually very costly. This tends to leave the actual persons harmed with little or nothing.

However, the goal isn't to enrich the actual class members it is too punish the bad actor.
This is analogous to the criminal justice system. Commit a crime like driving 100 MPH on the highway and you pay fines and suffer other penalties. You do not however, have to give money to everyone whose lives you put at risk.


If you want to become enriched as a result of a tort suit you opt out of the class and sue independently.

[Allen Bookout]

I have several Bosch tools and really like them. I am also against many of the law suits filled in this country. However, if Bosch's marketing department is listing tools not made in the USA as tools made in the USA they do deserve a penality large enough to assure that they do not do it again. It also serves as a warning to other companies.

As a side note, I had one of the CH compressors that was involved in a class action law suit many years ago. Not being in favor of these types of legal actions I just threw my notice away. Now after seeing that CH still operates just at the limit of the law with their deceptive advertising I have wished many times that I had at least added my name to the list, not for personal gain but to just show support against CH.

[Mike Henderson]

Class actions have their place but can be abused (like most things). There was a case recently where one of the cell phone companies were including in their "customer agreement" -which you sign to get service - that the customer was prohibited from participating in a class action lawsuit. But then the cell phone company was "cheating" each customer by a few dollars each billing period. The amount was small enough that it would cost an individual customer much more to bring a lawsuit than the amount in dispute.

For the cell phone company, those extra charges added up to a sizeable sum but the people who were charged those sums were prohibited from joining together to fight the charges.

The users brought an action to have the prohibition against class actions set aside and a judge agreed with them. So now the cell phone company will have to defend itself against the class.

That's an example of where class actions are valid and justified.

Mike

[Hank Knight]

[QUOTE=Cliff Rohrabacher;649427]

Class actions are a great thing~!!!

Liken class actions to the police. Police do their jobs correctly as well as incorrectly. And it's a job that most everyone agrees needs to be done. Which is why we put up with it when they do it wrongly.

The goal of class actions is to set the stage to expose corporate wrong doers to punishment who have harmed an unmanageably large group of people and to provide some measure of justice for society by causing the offender corporation to pay substantial sums in damages and suit costs and fees.

The experts in the litigation chew through tons of the money, so to the lawyers and the process of discovery is usually very costly. This tends to leave the actual persons harmed with little or nothing. QUOTE]

Cliff, I agree with you conceptually, but in the real world, class actions are terribly abused and represent a significant drain on our economy. For every class action case with a lauditory social purpose (remember the Ford Pinto and Thalidimide cases) there must be 100 or more cases that have only the barest basis in law or fact. These lawsuits are the brain children or smart enerjetic lawyers who make mega bucks on the litigation.

The Bosch case is a good example. Why sue Robert Bosch Corp. for a $10 certificate on behalf of a bunch of people who aren't unhappy with their products in the first place? Sure, maybe Bosch should be prohibited from advertising "Made in the USA" if their products are not, but a single plaintiff could accomplish that through an injunction in a much smaller lawsuit. The reason, of course, is that the lawyers will make much more money prosecuting and defending a class action lawsuit with thousands of potential class members than they would make in a single plaintiff suit. Meanwhile, the lawsuit will cost Bosch (or any other class action defendant) mega bucks to defend and will clog up the court system for several years.

I'm a lawyer, a partner in a large national law firm, and I have defended class action lawsuits. I have seen a sea change in the last 15-20 years in the way lawyers go after business. The shift has been away from single plaintiff lawsuits to multi-plaintiff actions because that's where the big bucks are. Law firms want to be recognized as experienced class action litigators, so an increasing part of their business development budget is spent on raising their profiles as "class action litigators." Plaintiff firms are trolling for the next "cause" and defense firms are trolling for the next class action client.

The result of all of this is noticeable. There are fewer single-plaintiff lawsuits brought today by large lawfirms than 20 years ago. The big litigation powerhouses are are spending more and more of their resources on multi plaintiff litigation. I question whether the average Joe is well served by our judicial system these days in light of this trend. I have no doubt that our economy is not well served by it. You see the effects on the bottom line cost of the goods and services you buy every day.

I have no quarrel with socially conscious litigation as long as it is directed at legitimate social evils. I have no quarrel with class action lawsuits that are directed at real injuries to large numbers of people. I quarrel with lawyers who bring class action lawsuits (or any lawsuit for that matter) for selfish reasons where there is little if any social justification for them. Unfortunaltely there is a lot of that going around these days.

I'll get off my soap box now.

Hank

[Bill Arnold]

I got the notice in the mail also but, when I checked the claim form, none of it applied to me. Here's the link to the form: http://www.rbtcsettlement.com/pdf/rbtc1poc.pdf

The deadline to file was July 20, 2007.

:rolleyes:

[Ray Moser]

Hank, you sound like a lawyer with some sense. How sad there are not more people with JD's that think like you do. It might cut down on the 'not enough dead lawyer' jokes.:)

[Ed Breen]

We were involved in a class action suit three years ago. Several plaintiff attorneys brought suit against some other agencies re: overtime. The agencies caved in and settled. We did not, Yes the cost of discovery was high since there were 41 plaintiffs, but we stuck to it and prevailed (a full week in federal court) Tjhe supreme court also agreed with our argument and I pity the poor ones who settled and didn't fight.
:) :)

[glenn bradley]

This is a reason to tie up the court system, line lawyers pockets and cause Bosch expense that they'll have to make up by increasing the price I pay for tools!?!

[Allen Bookout]

This is a reason to tie up the court system, line lawyers pockets and cause Bosch expense that they'll have to make up by increasing the price I pay for tools!?!

If Bosch did the right thing in the first place this would be no problem.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Cliff, I agree with you conceptually, but in the real world, class actions are terribly abused

A very great many things are abused. When the police ( in a non-Belton state) ransack your car without warrant they are abusing power yet we don’t fire all the police.


For every class action case with a lauditory social purpose (remember the Ford Pinto and Thalidimide cases) there must be 100 or more cases that have only the barest basis in law or fact. These lawsuits are the brain children or smart enerjetic lawyers who make mega bucks on the litigation. As I recall the Pinto has stapled gas tanks and they did burst and catch fire.



The Bosch case is a good example. Why sue Robert Bosch Corp. for a $10 certificate on behalf of a bunch of people who aren't unhappy with their products in the first place? Sure, maybe Bosch should be prohibited from advertising "Made in the USA" if their products are not, but a single plaintiff could accomplish that through an injunction in a much smaller lawsuit. Indeed. I wonder what the “cognizable harm” in this case is going to be.


The reason, of course, is that the lawyers will make much more money prosecuting and defending a class action lawsuit with thousands of potential class members than they would make in a single plaintiff suit. Meanwhile, the lawsuit will cost Bosch (or any other class action defendant) mega bucks to defend and will clog up the court system for several years. Stupid baseless crap is the price we all pay for the freedom to bring a suit so long as one can assert it’s in good faith.


I'm a lawyer, a partner in a large national law firm God bless you. I refused to go with a firm. A national one no less. EEEK~!! “The horror the horror.”



I have seen a sea change in the last 15-20 years in the way lawyers go after business. The shift has been away from single plaintiff lawsuits to multi-plaintiff actions because that's where the big bucks are. And you know why don’t you. Too damn many law schools are cranking out too damn many young lawyers.

You should see the up surge of plaintiff’s actions in my business. It’s hysterical. There are plaintiff’s lawyers who send out more than a hundred letters a months threatening law suits if the purported defendant doesn’t settle up quick. Way far too many people just send the $2000.00 and write it off rather than defending a federal action.

The result of all of this is noticeable. There are fewer single-plaintiff lawsuits brought today by large lawfirms than 20 years ago. I would say that it’s the fees ranging from $300 to $1500 an hour. And then there are the experts. I can't find an expert for less than $600.00 an hour. Most are more. Most folks just can’t do it.


I question whether the average Joe is well served by our judicial system these days in light of this trend. Has he ever? Justice is a game. He who plays best wins.
And the level of judicial paternalism makes my teeth grind.


I have no quarrel with socially conscious litigation as long as it is directed at legitimate social evils. I have no quarrel with class action lawsuits that are directed at real injuries to large numbers of people. Amen.


I quarrel with lawyers who bring class action lawsuits (or any lawsuit for that matter) for selfish reasons where there is little if any social justification for them. Amen

[Carl Crout]

[quote=Cliff Rohrabacher;649427]

Class actions are a great thing~!!!

Liken class actions to the police. Police do their jobs correctly as well as incorrectly. And it's a job that most everyone agrees needs to be done. Which is why we put up with it when they do it wrongly.

The goal of class actions is to set the stage to expose corporate wrong doers to punishment who have harmed an unmanageably large group of people and to provide some measure of justice for society by causing the offender corporation to pay substantial sums in damages and suit costs and fees.

The experts in the litigation chew through tons of the money, so to the lawyers and the process of discovery is usually very costly. This tends to leave the actual persons harmed with little or nothing. QUOTE]

Cliff, I agree with you conceptually, but in the real world, class actions are terribly abused and represent a significant drain on our economy. For every class action case with a lauditory social purpose (remember the Ford Pinto and Thalidimide cases) there must be 100 or more cases that have only the barest basis in law or fact. These lawsuits are the brain children or smart enerjetic lawyers who make mega bucks on the litigation.

The Bosch case is a good example. Why sue Robert Bosch Corp. for a $10 certificate on behalf of a bunch of people who aren't unhappy with their products in the first place? Sure, maybe Bosch should be prohibited from advertising "Made in the USA" if their products are not, but a single plaintiff could accomplish that through an injunction in a much smaller lawsuit. The reason, of course, is that the lawyers will make much more money prosecuting and defending a class action lawsuit with thousands of potential class members than they would make in a single plaintiff suit. Meanwhile, the lawsuit will cost Bosch (or any other class action defendant) mega bucks to defend and will clog up the court system for several years.

I'm a lawyer, a partner in a large national law firm, and I have defended class action lawsuits. I have seen a sea change in the last 15-20 years in the way lawyers go after business. The shift has been away from single plaintiff lawsuits to multi-plaintiff actions because that's where the big bucks are. Law firms want to be recognized as experienced class action litigators, so an increasing part of their business development budget is spent on raising their profiles as "class action litigators." Plaintiff firms are trolling for the next "cause" and defense firms are trolling for the next class action client.

The result of all of this is noticeable. There are fewer single-plaintiff lawsuits brought today by large lawfirms than 20 years ago. The big litigation powerhouses are are spending more and more of their resources on multi plaintiff litigation. I question whether the average Joe is well served by our judicial system these days in light of this trend. I have no doubt that our economy is not well served by it. You see the effects on the bottom line cost of the goods and services you buy every day.

I have no quarrel with socially conscious litigation as long as it is directed at legitimate social evils. I have no quarrel with class action lawsuits that are directed at real injuries to large numbers of people. I quarrel with lawyers who bring class action lawsuits (or any lawsuit for that matter) for selfish reasons where there is little if any social justification for them. Unfortunaltely there is a lot of that going around these days.

I'll get off my soap box now.

Hank

If you are really a lawyer you need to get off of your soap box and learn to spell.

It's:
Formaldehyde
energetic
Laudatory

[Randy Denby]

If you are really a lawyer you need to get off of your soap box and learn to spell.

It's:
Formaldehyde
energetic
Laudatory

I dont get it? Who's on the soapbox? Hank is a lawyer, not a teacher.
If you are really criticizing, then make sure you're right ....Its thalidimide,as Hank stated ,not formaldehyde. Medicine prescribed back in the 50's/60's to help pregnant women with morning sickness .It caused alot of deformities. I am missing 2 fingers on my left hand due to it.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

[quote=Hank Knight;649633]

If you are really a lawyer you need to get off of your soap box and learn to spell.

I'm trying to figure out why you'd make such a mean spirited remark.

Being a professional does not mean that one can spell, or do math.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

This is a reason to tie up the court system, line lawyers pockets and cause Bosch expense that they'll have to make up by increasing the price I pay for tools!?!

I'm guessing that the "cognizable harm" the suit will allege is that Bosch charged the higher Euro price while not using the higher priced Euro labor. They'll have to argue that it was misleading and caused people to pay for something they didn't get.

I don't like that line of reasoning. After all, Bosch can charge any thing they please. They don't need to justify it based on what country provided the labor. There is also no meaningful distinction between a worker from the USA or Germany except that US labor is cheaper because the overhead is lower.

[Paul Douglass]

What I didn't like about the law suit was, I did not initiate it, I did not want it, I have not been injured, yet the instruction said that if I did not respond I was part of it. Who are they (?) to tell me I have to respond to NOT be part of something I didn't want in the first place?



Or did I read it wrong? Anyway, seems to me there are more important thing lawyers could be doing.

[Hank Knight]

What I didn't like about the law suit was, I did not initiate it, I did not want it, I have not been injured, yet the instruction said that if I did not respond I was part of it. Who are they (?) to tell me I have to respond to NOT be part of something I didn't want in the first place?



Or did I read it wrong? Anyway, seems to me there are more important thing lawyers could be doing.

Paul, you didn't read it wrong. There are two kinds of class action lawsuits: "opt-in" and "opt-out." Most class actions are intended to settle a legal issue once and for all for everyone affected who might have a claim. These are "opt-out" suits. Potential class members (those who may have a claim) are sent Notice of the class action and given the choice of participating or not. In cases where the potential class is very large, Notice may be published in the newspaper or through other means of public communication. Unless a potential class member affirmatively "opts out" of the lawsuit, his/her claim will be resolved by the class action litigation.

If you have a claim, and you probably do since you got the Notice, you have two options: (1) sit back and do nothing and whatever claim you have will be resolved in the class action lawsuit, or (2) preserve your right NOT to be bound by the class action lawsuit and to bring your own lawsuit by sending in notice that you are "opting out" of the class action.

"Opt In" suits are not as common and are creatures of statute. Many wage-hour lawsuits, for example, are opt-in suits because the wage hour statute set them up that way. In these cases, Notice is sent advising potential class members that if they want to be part of the class action they must affirmatively "opt in." Those who "opt in" are included and their claims are resolved in the class action litigation. Those who do not "opt in" are not included and can bring their own claims in later litigation.

There may be problems, however, for those who lurk on the sidelines after receiving Notice of a class action. Decisions on factual issues in the class action litigation may apply to them later even though they were not included in the class action. Might be good - might be bad. If you have a claim and are interested in pursuing it, it would be a good idea to consult with an attorney about whether to join in a class action.

My $.02

Hank

[Nancy Laird]

[quote=Hank Knight;649633]

If you are really a lawyer you need to get off of your soap box and learn to spell.

It's:
Formaldehyde
energetic
Laudatory


Why don't you say something positive, Carl, instead of all the negative and fault-finding comments I'm seeing from you?

[John Shuk]

Cliff and Hank, both of you make good arguments. I could follow this discussion all day. Ultimately, I think I have to agree with Cliff that we pay a price for the freedoms we enjoy.
Thank you for the insight though. I mean that sincerely.