Oliver 20C 1909 Pattern lathe Completely renovated and modernized

[Brian Weick]

Well- for those that are familiar with me and my posts , I finally have finished the Oliver Yesterday and I have some pictures, although they don't do any justice because I have to downgrade the picture and it becomes very granular do to the low resolution downgrade.
This project started last year -August 2006 and has been an on and off project due to my regular occupation. This all started when I got her home to my shop October 2006- She worked great, and everything was better than expected , as I had taken a trip to RIC in Rochester NY and inspected and ran the lathe before I bought it, but there were a few things that bothered me about the lathe and one of which was those Babbitt bearings. I noticed they had just a little movement ,maybe a 64th of an inch laterally and a slight longitudinal movement that was barely noticeable and was common for Babbitt bearings after some use, but what really bothered me was the spray from the brass sleeve thrust washer , wondering every time I started her if they ever should dry up, for what ever reason, during operation - they would completely destroy the shaft and the Babbitt's themselves. So I did some research into retro-fit bearing applications - pillow block- to easy and to choppy, that would have looked altered and rather strange looking. so I went the way of totally machining the head (the ears) having them bored out to accept high speed / high thrust ratio bearings and finding 4 bearings that will go above and beyond the demands of the lathe was not so that bad, I wanted them all to be sealed bearings as to not exhume it's lubricant all over my shop walls and myself. It would have cost me a fortune but fortunately I met someone through a referral and his father used to work on Olivers , that was most of their work he told me so he was pleases to be able to work on it and I told him not to worry about the time- that saved me a considerable amount of money.
So it was the bearings, the drive assembly setup and the 4 step pulley that was only using one ring due to the person who owned prior to me. These are the pictures from RIt just as I saw it before I purchased her.

[Brian Weick]

While the machinist had my headstock and tail stock it was time to start the renovation, stripping it write down to the cast iron, every single part was removed,cleaned, stripped, 11,000 rpm power wire brush final cleaning-primed and then labeled. After all was at the stage of primer, certain areas where brushed and polished with rouge as to not interfere with the operation of any moving parts. After masking they where professionally sprayed with three coats of enamel paint designed for cast iron and non-ferrous metals. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=54858 these are some photos that I have put up already on this thread. When I got this stage completed then it was time to put everything back together.

[Brian Weick]

I just got the parts back from the machinist a week ago and I had to do the same to them as well. when I finished that then it was time to put it all together. Here are the most recent pictures finally completed.

[Brian Weick]

More pictures:

[Brian Weick]

Final pictures,the next step is the Carriage- That is going to be linked to the headstock to do twisted rope or spirals on the columns. the index wheel is new as well , incremented at 5 degree steps- that is for my router which attach's to the 2nd tier carriage for fluting. It also has a Yakawa 7hp Variable frequency drive with all the bells and whistles- slow start,slow stop, reverse, etc,,etc,. What a project this was but I have to tell you it was worth every minute of time and expense. I will be posting some of my column work on here over the next couple of weeks along with David's drum -(for those that know about the thread) It is absolutely still and smooth - leaves a nickle standing on edge at any part of the lathe. No more slop- literally-LOL. :)

[Brian Myers]

Brian,
Awesome job on the restore. Now that is one sweet machine you lucky dawg. This lathe should make all the Mayo,Mustard,Robust, and all other brand owners drool!:cool:

[jeremy levine]

Really great. Like a museum restore but better because you get to use it.

[Matt Meiser]

I don't know Brian, are you sure its going to be big enough? :D

Serious, great job on the restoration/renovation. I like how you've added the modernizations without destroying the old-arn character of the lathe.

[Christopher K. Hartley]

Brian,
Awesome job on the restore. Now that is one sweet machine you lucky DAG. This lathe should make all the Mayo,Mustard,Robust, and all other brand owners drool!:cool:Brian W. she is a Treasure and you have done a fine job in the restore and update. Whatever you decide to spin, it's gota be something BIG!!:eek: Just don't surprise us and turn a pen, OK? Again Beautiful Job!!:) Now for Brian M's comment; Robust owner Drool? NOT EVEN!!!!!!!:D :D :D It did make me wonder if Brent can make a bigger one though.:eek: :eek: I can't speak for the rest of those lathe owners.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Great work Brian! Beautiful job on the restoration! Looking forward to seeing some of your columns!

[Don Orr]

Now that's a great story and a great refurb job. Good to see that classic old iron going back into service. Looking forward to seeing your work especially the drum. The bearing retrofit on the headstock came out great.

[Brett Baldwin]

Better than new and back in business. Very cool.

[Brian Weick]

finally, I Just purchased a Z712 Digital camera today- they were on sale and with my work -bathrooms especially,they are usually mid sized rooms and I want to get more of the work in one picture, sort of panoramic view- my lucky day - also came with 1 gig ultra SD card and $30.00 gift card. 7.1 mega pixel and wide view optical Schneider Kreuznack variogon lens with 12x zoom capability and image stabilizer. Sad thing is I don't know what half this stuff means , now all I have to do is read the manual and become more familiar with all the features so I can take better pictures. I always thought I would be able to keep up with technology - but at the pace it's going write now, pretty soon i won't even be able to make toast- how pathetic! I am going to take some detailed photo's of my lathe tomorrow - it really is magnificent machine. I admire all of you that have refurbished old machinery as well and what a job some of you have done- fantastic detail and you can tell the amount of time that was put into it.
On a side note: Do any of you turners have any recommendation on the way I should turn David's drum log, i am definitely turning the outside first~obviously - One thing about this whole project is - I am so concerned about drying and cracking- any recommendations would be of great help- I have never turned a cut log and this is new ground- drying time - when to turn- I don't agree with the sugar maple David would like- i think a more dense wood such as oak/ash- possibly cherry - the reason I say this is I bought roughly 900 bf of soft maple-(misnomer) it's actually not soft - but some of the boards did have quite a bit of separation/cracking in the grain and with the other ruff cut lumber I have bought in the past - oak/cherry/ Brazilian mahogany/hickory/ walnut - (not in order of density)from my experience most of these woods have a nice compact grain structure and I have found these species easier to turn and more forgiving then less dense types of wood- but then again most the time I stave my material to create architectural pieces- not from solid wood. Turners, I don't do any bowl turning and I know there are quite a few of you that do, and I must say - very nice and professional work I might add ,,so I am looking for advice on turning rough logs- I am never afraid to ask how to do something- i don't care about that, it looks worse when you don't know what your doing and then you end up with egg on your face twice- for what! so- if any of you that have experience with working with cut logs for turning- drying time, etc,, etc, that would be really great!
Happy turning:)
Brian

[Curt Fuller]

Makes my heart go pitter patter!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Brian.....Fantastic restoration and upgrade!

[Brian Weick]

thanks for noticing my work- I appreciate that as I admire what you all do as well-you are all very talented individuals and I admire your work and your discussions- thank you! On a side note ~ if any of you have some suggestions about that solid core wood drum set posted by David- please start a thread or reply ~ I have read books on turning- several , but frankly I would rather hear it from someone that is very familiar with turning cut logs ~ entering in to the road that has never been traveled on and I would Rather not take the wrong path- thank you!
I will have some threads on my columns - I have two that I have to make 12" in diameter x 6' in length - maple and stop fluted. You are going to laugh but i actually am able to make pens on her- she can go 3,490 and I ran it yesterday at that speed ~ with the 16" index wheel on - smooth- really smooth , Allen was correct - it is balanced ~ only - i think that index wheel will be removed when it is not going to be used - it is very intimidating when it is running with it on, i don't want to get near it , there is an air compression noise that is generated by the 1/2' 5 degree increment locking holes on the index plate,it sounds very much like a jet engine when it is starting- no joke. ~ but very intimidating- I showed my buddy yesterday and all he said was "holy %&* ,,,,,,,that's insane" I had to explain to him that it wasn't going to be attached most of the time ~ only when I flute my material "OH,,,OH,,ohhhh ----OK" - he said. You had to be there to see the expression on his face~ Priceless! I thought he was going to run out of my shop -it was way to funny, had to be there moment. I look forward to any suggestions from you turners about that log- thank you again for the compliments- means a lot!
Regards,
Brian

[Roy Wall]

Brian,

Thanks for posting the restored Lathe and keeping us up to date....it is fabulous!!!

Be safe and enjoy - looking forward to the work you produce!

[Philip Duffy]

Brian, What a beautiful job of restoring the King of Lathes! Thanks for letting us see the whole thing! BZ! I am curious of the speed range and the turning max diameter? As to the drum, I wonder if walnut would be a better choice since it stays so stable as a log-form and only the sapwood rots. The other possibility would be a stave construction glue-up and then your magnificent machine. Phil

[Jim Boggs]

Awesome job Brian:cool: ,I'm way behind in the curve here as I am restoring a S.W. Putnam with the same intention of turning drums,for myself though.Not to mention I've never turned so much as a fence post:( .I'm wicked jealous:mad: and impressed:eek: .I seem to have also gotten side-tracked this summer with collecting other old iron,a Crescent 12" jointer(came off aCrescent Universal Woodworker),a Dewalt 12 radial arm,and tonight I'm off to look at a 26" Crescent bandsaw(I can't wait).Well thanks again for the follow-along and pics,going to start mine(sand blast all the machine and then paint) this week-end.

[Brian Weick]

Brian, What a beautiful job of restoring the King of Lathes! Thanks for letting us see the whole thing! BZ! I am curious of the speed range and the turning max diameter? As to the drum, I wonder if walnut would be a better choice since it stays so stable as a log-form and only the sapwood rots. The other possibility would be a stave construction glue-up and then your magnificent machine. Phil


Phil,
Thank you for your compliments - much appreciated. I have a 4 speed transmission/3 step pulley from the motor to the Transmission and the VFD. At a very low speed-200 RPM ,there is an incredible amount of torque with the 3hp motor running at full throttle,the high speed - on the other end 3,490 and everything in between depending on the steps used on the pulley and the setting you use on the VFD. the turning diameter is 24" ~ 12" swing over the bed and 20" over the carriage. I think walnut may work but it's the drying/turning/drying/turning process - what the moisture content should be ,,,ect,etc that I am not sure of.
Thanks,
Brian

[Brian Weick]

Awesome job Brian:cool: ,I'm way behind in the curve here as I am restoring a S.W. Putnam with the same intention of turning drums,for myself though.Not to mention I've never turned so much as a fence post:( .I'm wicked jealous:mad: and impressed:eek: .I seem to have also gotten side-tracked this summer with collecting other old iron,a Crescent 12" jointer(came off crescent Universal Woodworker),a Dwelt 12 radial arm,and tonight I'm off to look at a 26" Crescent band saw(I can't wait).Well thanks again for the follow-along and pics,going to start mine(sand blast all the machine and then paint) this week-end.

Jim,
the ego contests and delusions of grandeur do not come up that often on this site- pretty much all adults and mature,civil individuals on here from my experience ~ which is why I like it so much ~ great people, fantastic craftsmanship, and some great threads - what more could you ask for so don't worry about calling a duck ,a duck- it is what it is.
I just wanted to mention to you that I would be careful with the method you have chosen for removing the paint on the Putnam. If you are going to do that - i would avoid sandblasting any parts that involve tolerances- IE~ tail stock shaft spindle, bearing housing,the bed itself .
I read a post last year of a guy that was renovating his American lathe and decided to sandblast ,as you are, and he applied that process to every single part from that lathe-when he put everything back together -disaster-:eek: he noticed some play in the tail stock shaft,headstock bearing and the 1st tier carriage assembly- These old iron machines do not have the same grade of steel as todays machines . I noticed this when I had to drill 3 holes in the back of the bed to mount the drive assembly stage inside the bed. there is a difference in the iron as you look at the shavings from the drilling- very fine and no shards-that's for sure - it was the grain structure of the iron that stood out from todays steel. All I am saying is you may want to Chemically clean/Power twist wire brush those parts - just trying to save you from the same "Huge" mistake that poor other guy had to deal with. I felt so bad for him :( . If you talk to anyone that is a machinist and tell them what you are going to do- wait till you see the look they give you? there is more slack that can be given to wood lathes than metal lathes because of the tolerances and accuracy needed on metal lathes ~ none the less, you want as little play as possible on any lathe. Have you had any luck finding parts for that beast? good luck with the restoration- don't forget to use a good primer and the proper paint for the project- you won't regret it, I wish you the best outcome on your Putnam!:)
Brian

[Brian Myers]

Now for Brian M's comment; Robust owner Drool? NOT EVEN!!!!!!!:D :D :D

Sorry Mr. Hartley, but pattern makers lathes like this are in a class that even a Robust could only DREAM of being in!:D:cool::cool:

If deem be fightin` words then so be it. :rolleyes:

Brian M., green with envy in PA , but not over the tiny Robust.:p

[Brian Weick]

Forgive me-but what exactly is a robust machine ?

[Brian Myers]

It`s this puny machine Mr. Hartley is trying to compare to yours.:rolleyes:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=59797&highlight=robust

[Brian Weick]

Brian,
That looks like a really nice lathe and I am sure it does everything and more- looks well designed, rugged, and perfect for what Chris is using it for - there are several things that my lathe doesn't have that his does - vacuum attachment, etc,,,etc, - Very nice lathe- It all depends on what you plan on turning- It isn't about size at all- I just bought this lathe and did all the restoration because I admire the old oliver lathe and for what I do - it is absolutely perfect, I don't turn pens or bowls, I create architectural columns and the like and I wanted a lathe with the ability to handle large capacity material and something that was designed for that purpose. there are +/- to everything we have. There are also those that own them just because they admire the machinery itself just for what it is. :)

Brian

[Bill Wyko]

That's one heck of a lathe but now it's time to getter dirty. Lets see a column like no other peel off that bad boy.:D

[Brian Myers]

Brian,
That looks like a really nice lathe and I am sure it does everything and more- looks well designed, rugged, and perfect for what Chris is using it for

Brian
I`m sure that the Robust is a dream to turn on and far,far,far better than what I currently use . That said , a lathe like yours has a grandeur that the new lathes lack.;)

[Jim Boggs]

Hey Brian, ya I've been warned about the blaster already,was only going to do non-machined parts of the castings and then only after removing what I can that could be damaged.I've also got some cracks in the pedestals and a scarf joint that I was going to have welded.70906If it was only the one machine I might consider a more labor intensive stripping but I've got the jointer and now add to that a Crescent 26" bandsaw and a Canedy-Otto 20" #35.Was thinking the wire wheel cup might work for the machine beds/tables?Is this what you did for yours?I've had good luck with 400 or more wet/dry and Liquid Wrench/W-D on some tables.My machinist told me steel wool I think, which I'll be at forever.But your point is well taken,having anything built-up and re-machined would be fairly costly and risks more damage to machine.I'd like to do it fast but also more importantly do it right.I hadn't realized yesterday that you were the guy that had posted to my putnam thread,thanks.Is David the same guy from Canada that wanted the drums?Just wondered.Again thanks and hope my restorations come out as good as yours.How long did it take to do the chemical?

[Brian Weick]

Hey Brian, ya I've been warned about the blaster already,was only going to do non-machined parts of the castings and then only after removing what I can that could be damaged.I've also got some cracks in the pedestals and a scarf joint that I was going to have welded.70906If it was only the one machine I might consider a more labor intensive stripping but I've got the jointer and now add to that a Crescent 26" bandsaw and a Canedy-Otto 20" #35.Was thinking the wire wheel cup might work for the machine beds/tables?Is this what you did for yours?I've had good luck with 400 or more wet/dry and Liquid Wrench/W-D on some tables.My machinist told me steel wool I think, which I'll be at forever.But your point is well taken,having anything built-up and re-machined would be fairly costly and risks more damage to machine.I'd like to do it fast but also more importantly do it right.I hadn't realized yesterday that you were the guy that had posted to my putnam thread,thanks.Is David the same guy from Canada that wanted the drums?Just wondered.Again thanks and hope my restorations come out as good as yours.How long did it take to do the chemical?


Hi Jim,
When I stripped the lathe down I used the commercial grade Strypeez and that worked well on the bed and all of the parts. there were 3 coats of paint so it took three applications of the stripeez and it really wasn't to bad . 15 minutes per application. If you are worried about the time it takes - the old saying "you get out what you put in". You stated that you have some other machinery to do as well-but if you want it done write ~ act like you don't have those other machines and concentrate on the lathe first, take your time and you will be elated how nice it will be when completed. I wanted a well produced renovation and it took me quite a bit of time to restore the Oliver because I couldn't work on it every day - I have to pay my bills as well. When I completed the stripping of the old paint and primer I used a wire twist wheel on a 11,000 rpm angle grinder to clean everything up~ I used that tool a lot to clean all the bolts/carriage assemble/the lathe itself - everything- just where a good respirator mask- that stuff is nasty and it is going to get black dust all over the place. If your bed is in bad shape use the twist wire wheel to clean it up first - You can sand the bed after starting with 150 grit (depending on the condition- you may be able to move to a finer grit sand paper) and working your way down to 400 grit but you have to do every step to the whole bed including where the headstock is and don't stay in one area to long, However-you can do this process ,with care ~ ONLY ON A WOOD LATHE BED ~ do not utilize a sanding procedure on the tail stock shaft/spindle shaft or carriage guides - that should only be wire brushed. those parts that you want to shine like chrome (after the sanding procedure) use a E5 buffing compound on a buffing tool. that worked wonders on the handles/bolts and the bed - it takes some time but I wanted a real nice luster to the parts that were not painted. If you are not comfortable with using strypeez I suppose you could use a sandblasting method on most of the lathe/lathe parts- just stay away from the machined parts/raised lettering cast in the parts- as you already know. If you look at my lathe there is a chrome shine to the 1" border on the sides of the bed (upper and lower) that were not there before- I used a grinding wheel to get the iron fresh and then used the sanding method and finally the E5 buffing compound. there were pits from when it was casted in some areas but I was not going to grind an 1/8" off of the rims- there are limitations. How are you doing as far as parts? Is there a carriage with the lathe? Do you have Babbitt bearings on her or tapered ball-bearings? David, oh yes- the drum guy- yes , that is me- are you doing this for him as well? If so - this is a new phase of turning for me and if your planning on doing this as well maybe we can share information on this - I would be more than happy to work together on this! Look forward to your response
Happy Turning :)
Brian

[Paul Engle]

Brian , speaking as a machinist... "SWEETTTTTTTTTTTT" . Your labors will reward you way into the future with that one, and the rest of us can just eat our hearts out.

[Kim Ford]

Brian, Nice Machine. . . .and I really mean nice.

Now you just need to pick up an Oliver bandsaw of the same vintage and your shop will be complete.

Good luck and have fun.


Kim

[Brian Weick]

thanks guys- but those pictures do not do it any justice- But I looked at my post on shrinking the size of jpeg's and I will try this site they recommended. Kim, I received your PM - thanks- what lathe do you have ? I read your comment about the Oliver lathes- i have only seen 3 on Machinery exchange this past two weeks and nothing in-between , one 1943 Oliver 20D (don't see those that often) was going for $8500.00 -1940 with power carriage but the the span was less than 72" and another was a B (owner is not sure- but i am) American/Oliver- around the time Oliver bought the American Machinery co. that is going for $5000.00 but it needs some TLC and it has that ungodly power drive write above the belt cone and it is Babbitt bearing. Also there was a 20b - just came off recently- all original- rough shape, but again the 72" span but it had tapered bearings which is good- providing they were in good operable condition- replacing those-pricey-$1,800.00 to $2,500.00.
On the drum issue: this is new to me (drum turning) willing to try it - it's the drying situation that i am not sure about-and the wood log itself. I can get 24" over my bed (w/o- the carriage) 20" over that. I was thinking of finding- or having my machinist fabricate a long gouging bar and some finish cutters to go along with that- but something where I can change the bit on the end depending on the step I am in in the process. any thoughts?
thanks again,'
Happy turning,:) and Kim- yes- where can I find that Oliver Band saw?
Brian

[Brian Weick]

Hey Brian, ya I've been warned about the blaster already,was only going to do non-machined parts of the castings and then only after removing what I can that could be damaged.I've also got some cracks in the pedestals and a scarf joint that I was going to have welded.70906If it was only the one machine I might consider a more labor intensive stripping but I've got the jointer and now add to that a Crescent 26" bandsaw and a Canedy-Otto 20" #35.Was thinking the wire wheel cup might work for the machine beds/tables?Is this what you did for yours?I've had good luck with 400 or more wet/dry and Liquid Wrench/W-D on some tables.My machinist told me steel wool I think, which I'll be at forever.But your point is well taken,having anything built-up and re-machined would be fairly costly and risks more damage to machine.I'd like to do it fast but also more importantly do it right.I hadn't realized yesterday that you were the guy that had posted to my putnam thread,thanks.Is David the same guy from Canada that wanted the drums?Just wondered.Again thanks and hope my restorations come out as good as yours.How long did it take to do the chemical?

Jim,
I was hoping you would start a thread on your restoration for us - i love to see the before and after results- plus- you have a record of everything you did to the lathe- that is important if it were ever to leave your shop- hopefully not! Something to think about?
Thanks- and have a great weekend!
Happy turnings- (after your renovation):)
Brian

[Christopher K. Hartley]

Sorry Mr. Hartley, but pattern makers lathes like this are in a class that even a Robust could only DREAM of being in!:D:cool::cool: If deem be fightin` words then so be it. :rolleyes: Brian M., green with envy in PA , but not over the tiny Robust.:p


It`s this puny machine Mr. Hartley is trying to compare to yours.:rolleyes:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=59797&highlight=robust


..Now for Brian M's comment; Robust owner Drool? NOT EVEN!!!!!!!:D :D ...

Mr. Myers comments? Interesting Spin...no pun intended...well, maybe a little.:D

Without question Mr. Weick, everything he says about your lathe is true and my Robust compared to yours, well, I can't say he is off there either.

I do admire you and the work you've done as well as admire your iron. I, very simply put, "am just very happy with what I have". I appreciate that your comments acknowledged that. I'm looking forward to hearing and seeing much more of your Champion Lathe.:)

[Brian Weick]

Mr. Myers comments? Interesting Spin...no pun intended...well, maybe a little.:D

Without question Mr. Weick, everything he says about your lathe is true and my Robust compared to yours, well, I can't say he is off there either.

I do admire you and the work you've done as well as admire your iron. I, very simply put, "am just very happy with what I have". I appreciate that your comments acknowledged that. I'm looking forward to hearing and seeing much more of your Champion Lathe.:)


Chris,
That lathe you have is awesome !- no joke- I don't know why everyone has to make comparisons. Know I now a Harbour freight lathe is nothing to get exited about either but it's what comes off the spindles that matters. I just put my renovation on to help those that want to restore their equipment and maybe they can take bits of processes that I have done on my lathe to help them out with their restoration. there was nothing on conversions of bearings on older Oliver lathes, Nothing on moving the transmission from where it was to where I wanted it- in the belly. I had to design that power drive system myself and I am not a machinist by trade. I have all the plans for the fabrication - documentation and design, and maybe some day i will be able to help someone else. Everyone thinks bigger is better- not true - that lathe takes up my whole west wall - I have 16' x 5' that is gone from a 22x22 shop that is why I have all of my machines on wheels with the exception of my Mustard TS. I think you have an awesome lathe Chris, awesome-it is no doubt a robust machine and a professional piece of equipment. I wish everyone wouldn't go that direction with this post- I do appreciate the compliments, don't get me wrong, but I think it's the process and the stages involved with a machine restoration that are fascinating and educational. well- I hope you and your family have a great holiday weekend and It is a pleasure conversing- even if it is in cyberspace-LOL
Happy turning on that beauty! :)
Brian

[Brian Weick]

Final pictures,the next step is the Carriage- That is going to be linked to the headstock to do twisted rope or spirals on the columns. the index wheel is new as well , incremented at 5 degree steps- that is for my router which attach's to the 2nd tier carriage for fluting. It also has a Yakawa 7hp Variable frequency drive with all the bells and whistles- slow start,slow stop, reverse, etc,,etc,. What a project this was but I have to tell you it was worth every minute of time and expense. I will be posting some of my column work on here over the next couple of weeks along with David's drum -(for those that know about the thread) It is absolutely still and smooth - leaves a nickle standing on edge at any part of the lathe. No more slop- literally-LOL. :)


New Pictures: I Finally figured out how to shrink the pictures without loosing the quality

[George Guadiane]

New Pictures: I Finally figured out how to shrink the pictures without loosing the quality
I don't normally do lathe envy, but WOW! THAT was really worth whatever effort you put into it.

[Brian Weick]

New Pictures: I Finally figured out how to shrink the pictures without loosing the quality


Updated with the lettering- one more color application needs to be applied-will have more pictures after completed.

[Kim Ford]

Brian, in answer to your questions;

I have a 1974 2255 with a power feed compound. I found it through google from a surplus machine dealer in Minneapolis. In perfect shape with top quality bearings, all I added was a VFD. There was an identical one on ebay out of CA in April that went for $2,550. The 22 series is typically 17" turn capacity, however, by simply putting in height blocks under the headstock and the tail stock you can extend it to 30" without a big problem. Then just have a machinest make an extender for your compound. I would recomend a 22 series or the 20B, both are excellent modern type machines that will last more than a lifetime.

As to the machinery, just keep in touch with all the usual suspects, OWWM, WoodWeb, Ebay and continue to Google. I found and purchased an Oliver 17 bandsaw (30" with 15" throat) completely rebuilt from OWWM classifeds for $750. I had to go to Ohio to pick it up but it is a sweet machine.

As to turning the drums..... the best method I could come up with is to pattern out a round blank between centers that is at least 6" over length. I would recomend making an outside guide for your router. This needs to be accurate, you will use it to later cut the final outside diameter. .

Next; put two steady rests to support the drum each about 1/4 of the distance in from the end. Look on Brian's website he has the type of rest you would need made.

With the blank still between centers and in the rests rig a boring bar on your compound that can make the center cut. This might be a bit tricky because you need to be able to move it the entire length of the blank. Until you figure out what is the best you may only be able to cut 6-8" at a time, and then reset. I think I would start by making the blank about 1" or 1 1/4" in wall thickness and see how that works.

Remember, this is all at a relatively low speed. <100 rpm. As soon as the boring bar cuts through . . . the steady rests will hold the hollow tube you just created. Disassemble and continue with the next size down.

Get a big plastic trash can that the blanks will fit in and let them swim in DNA. When they are stablized and dry your are ready to proceed.

Okay, what I would do is get a 2" shaft machined that I can rig between centers that is at least 12" longer that the biggest blank. Have your machinest make a jig that would hold a router and would slide on shaft to cut the inside diameter. Also have him make a couple of dog legs that could grip both inside or outside.

Now to turn the finish drum. You must turn the outside first. This is very slow rpm, like 10 or 20. Use the dog legs to center the piece and the router jig you created for the rough out to do a finish cut on the outside. Put your steady rests in place, switch your headstock dog leg to grip by the outside, take off you tailstock dog leg and cut your interior surface with the router from the tails stock end. Clean up your ends and you are done.

The big question is if you can do this once or do you need to take the 1" down to 5/8" go through the drying process again and then cut the final blank at the 1/4 to 3/8".

Sounds easy, when I look at it in my mind, but believe me it will be a challenge. This is just my 2 cents.

Thanks Kim

[Brian Weick]

Brian, in answer to your questions;

I have a 1974 2255 with a power feed compound. I found it through google from a surplus machine dealer in Minneapolis. In perfect shape with top quality bearings, all I added was a VFD. There was an identical one on ebay out of CA in April that went for $2,550. The 22 series is typically 17" turn capacity, however, by simply putting in height blocks under the headstock and the tail stock you can extend it to 30" without a big problem. Then just have a machinest make an extender for your compound. I would recomend a 22 series or the 20B, both are excellent modern type machines that will last more than a lifetime.

As to the machinery, just keep in touch with all the usual suspects, OWWM, WoodWeb, Ebay and continue to Google. I found and purchased an Oliver 17 bandsaw (30" with 15" throat) completely rebuilt from OWWM classifeds for $750. I had to go to Ohio to pick it up but it is a sweet machine.

As to turning the drums..... the best method I could come up with is to pattern out a round blank between centers that is at least 6" over length. I would recomend making an outside guide for your router. This needs to be accurate, you will use it to later cut the final outside diameter. .

Next; put two steady rests to support the drum each about 1/4 of the distance in from the end. Look on Brian's website he has the type of rest you would need made.

With the blank still between centers and in the rests rig a boring bar on your compound that can make the center cut. This might be a bit tricky because you need to be able to move it the entire length of the blank. Until you figure out what is the best you may only be able to cut 6-8" at a time, and then reset. I think I would start by making the blank about 1" or 1 1/4" in wall thickness and see how that works.

Remember, this is all at a relatively low speed. <100 rpm. As soon as the boring bar cuts through . . . the steady rests will hold the hollow tube you just created. Disassemble and continue with the next size down.

Get a big plastic trash can that the blanks will fit in and let them swim in DNA. When they are stablized and dry your are ready to proceed.

Okay, what I would do is get a 2" shaft machined that I can rig between centers that is at least 12" longer that the biggest blank. Have your machinest make a jig that would hold a router and would slide on shaft to cut the inside diameter. Also have him make a couple of dog legs that could grip both inside or outside.

Now to turn the finish drum. You must turn the outside first. This is very slow rpm, like 10 or 20. Use the dog legs to center the piece and the router jig you created for the rough out to do a finish cut on the outside. Put your steady rests in place, switch your headstock dog leg to grip by the outside, take off you tailstock dog leg and cut your interior surface with the router from the tails stock end. Clean up your ends and you are done.

The big question is if you can do this once or do you need to take the 1" down to 5/8" go through the drying process again and then cut the final blank at the 1/4 to 3/8".

Sounds easy, when I look at it in my mind, but believe me it will be a challenge. This is just my 2 cents.

Thanks Kim


Kim,
thanks for the information about the drum making- I really appreciate the input- 2 heads are better than 1 as they say- I'll be posting the project when I can get to it- it has been busy as far as business goes- but when I get the chance I am going to start it. thanks again for the help Kim
Happy Turnings:)
Brian

[Brian Weick]

Update: for those that are interested, I received my Hitachi M12v2 router yesterday- not bad for $117.00 inc shipping! that router is a monster- deceiving by the pictures. Some features I like, some I don't - I would not use this for an under mount router but it's perfect for my fluting on the Oliver. I attached the mounting plate yesterday , however I think I am going to come up with a swivel design today. It's difficult to get to the lock down knob and adjustment lever, so it's back to the drawing board with me and my router plate. :D and yes i moved the jet turbine index plate back on the headstock spindle, it was to up close in the front.

[Kim Ford]

Looking Good!!!!

[Skip Spaulding]

Absolutely Beautiful! Thanks for sharing.

[Brian Weick]

Finished the router carriage plate assembly today. Came out real nice- That sample (small column) I did with the router and different bits. Surprisingly when I run it at 10 RPM's I get real clean cuts so I thought I would give it a try.
More updates on some projects with the Oliver.:)
Brian

[Ernie Nyvall]

Wow Brian, that is spectacular.

[Jim Kountz]

Ok Brian its official, I really dont like you now!! LOL Of course Im kidding Im just really jealous of that lathe you have there. Excellent job on the restoration and that sample turning with the router.
Way to go my man!

[Ed Scolforo]

Very interesting! Wha, no electronic variable speed?? :eek: :D

[Brian Weick]

First of all, That space aged Hitachi router from planet Beltar is off of the carriage-. It worked very well but way to much bulk and the fabricated configuration was to much, not to mention I hated the design~ what were they thinking. anyways The new router is the PC 892 and this set up is very easy and not to mention looks a lot better. The index plate was mounted on the S&K dbl pulley flywheel , and when the lathe ran at full speed it sounded like a jet engine, rather loud, and I wanted to be able to take it off and on when needed. So yesterday I removed everything from the shaft and took the index plate off , put everything back to together on the spindle shaft, installed the shaft , then centered/mounted the index wheel on to a face plate used the carriage to cut the center hole out from 2" to 2 5/16th", that worked out good then moved the index wheel and the locking assembly to the back , mounted a hub on the outboard side to clamp the index plate , then centered the locking assembly to the index plate to check for accuracy- was true all the way around.
This is a much better set up for both applications now and I will be working on the linkage next~. :D
Brian

[Brian Weick]

For any of you that own aftermarket, or a replacement VFD for your equipment, there are some options that are available for the unit FYI.
I had my Yaskawa 7hp VFD mounted on a swing assembly on the back wall along with the magnetic starter and it was OK but not what I really wanted. I remember reading in the manual about the remote setup options and what was available~rocket science with all the technical description. I called Yaskawa's tech department ~ absolutly top knoch department by the way ~ thanks to Jason~ the man is incredable, anyways, he told me there are 2 applications , the one remote operation actually is a main controller called a (MEMOBUS) master unit which will control all vfd's if you have more than one in your system~ however ~ this application is more less designed for blower fan units, conveyor and more industrial applications so you have control from one unit and avoid having to go to every single VFD to change parameters. In my manual it explains to you the wiring from the control terminals but not from that point to the remote. You also have to take into account the potentiometer (K value) the meter (milliamp) those were the only 2 that were confusing, the rest,,IE ~ on/ off, forward/reverse and multi step speed reference are just contact switches. I was able to get a analog controller , same brand (Yaskawa) which was great for $10.00 + shipping from ebay, the guy even changed the potentiometer for me from a 10K to 2K which is what my model called for, along with throwing in the resistor which had to go between + side of the meter from 4ma down to 1ma. I think he has more of these on hand to sell if anyone is interested ,send me a pm. I found out that they originally sold for around $129.00 from a distributor ~ what a bargain and it is definitely a professional set up.
I have this set up on my oliver as you can see and the controller (attached to the carriage) is detachable , I can actually put the controller in my hand , or lock it in my belt to have it with me next to my hip and i have a range of 13'. it is awesome what ever digital readout I get on the main controller corresponds to the analog meter ~ it works flawlessly and I now have control with me at all times. If your interested in doing this with yours , check your manual and look for remote control, or control terminal in the manual~ you may or may not have this I don't know but from what I have read most if not all have this option. I have to get a Plexiglas case to cover the VFD as well ~ it is not good to have dust or debris falling into the unit so I am off to find a case plexi case today.

[Paul Engle]

Brian, excellent work on the Oliver. Indeed.

[Dick Strauss]

Brian,
That looks like one heck of a setup!

Don't forget to allow for some air flow in the acrylic case for the VFD. Sealing it would definitely lead to overheating. I've often thought that I'd mount mine in a metal box with a sealed swing door if I ever get around to adding a VFD to my lathe. I plan to mount a pc fan along with air filters to keep the dust out of the unit.

Can I ask what all was involved with having the bearing retrofitted? How much time was involved in the machining and what would it have cost based on normal machine shop rates? The reason I ask is I've got an old woodworking/metalworking lathe with a 1.5/8tpi headstock and brass/bronze bearings that requires lube. My system bearings and spindle seem to have no play but I wonder what it would cost to retrofit mine...


Thanks in advance,
Dick

[Brian Weick]

Hi Dick,
Yes, I am looking into the cover case because dust and debris will damage the unit, your absolutely correct .The VFD on the Oliver has a fan built right into the unit on the bottom, as far as adding another fan to the unit~I don't think it is necessary as long as the case you have around it allows for air flow. But if thats what you want to do~ it certainly can't hurt.
the machining on your headstock and spindle will vary in the pricing depending on who you take it to, the best thing to do if you really want to retrofit the bearings is take it to a machinist and see what they say. when I had mine machined the prices I got were all over the place. Like I said ~ if your really interested in doing this take it with you for the day , line up some machinist/milling outfits and see what they say. I would recommend asking around for someone that you know directly or referred by someone you know and I think that will help out with getting the job done correctly and within a reasonable price tag attached to the job. good luck with your project Dick.
Brian

[Bob Hallowell]

Brian, Nice job. I biult my own with a 10k varible resisitor and a 3 postion switch and built my own. But I have no meter and I paid more then $10

Bob

[Brian Weick]

Hi Bob,
Bob, I have a few questions for you,
:Did you mean 10K potentiometer? you're model calls for a 10K pot or are you just using the one you have? , this K value on the pot has something to do with the tie in to the meter apparently.Anyways, i have to ask you, where did you mount the VFD and when you use the remote control, can you see the value on the HZ digital readout? Did you encase the VFD ~ that is something I definitely have to do asap.
I am glad I utilized the remote feature, it makes having control of the lathe so much easier and "safer" ~ the case is what I am concerned about right now.
Brian