Not your typical TS advice request (I hope)

[daniel lane]

Hello, all -

Well, this may be a stealth gloat more than a request for advice, but after discussing things with LOML, it looks like the majority of the budget this year is going toward completing the workshop (framing, noise insulation, flooring, electrical, etc.), including purchase and installation of a Clearvue cyclone DC system. Although I told him I felt fairly sure, Ed doesn't know quite yet that the decision has been made, so if you see him, tell him to save an 1800 for me. :)

Anyway, since that money is effectively spent, I no longer have the funds to get the Steel City TS for which I was waiting for it to go on sale next month. (Wow, that sentence sucked more than the CVC will!) Anyway, the point is I have no TS and I don't have much money left to get one! What I thought I'd ask all of you, is this: How badly do I need one, and if I need one really badly, what can I get for <$300 that will work for a while?

As far as getting along without one, I have a router, a bandsaw, and a circular saw, with which I can imagine getting a lot of the cuts done that I feel I need. Until I get the TS, I plan on building up the shop, so as far as what needs to be done, most of it is shop cabinetry and a workbench. Maybe some shelves and small portable tool stands. You know, half-lap joinery. ;)

So, what do y'all think?

[Brian Willan]

Hey Daniel

Any new $300 table saw that you are going to pickup is going to be money down the drain when you replace it with the Steel City one that you are after.

If you are going to be building shop cabinets and the like for the next while, it may suit you to pick up a circular saw guide rail system and a decent support surface. If you take a look in the Manufacturers section of the site for the Eurekazone forum and take a look at the posts there. Their website is http://eurekazone.com/

Once there take a look at their smart table kit and any of their Smart Guide System packages. You will be under your $300 budget and still have a great system for breaking down sheet stock to be more manageable on your future table saw purchase.

Cheers

Brian

[Mike Heidrick]

Do you need the cyclone right away then? What are you going to hook up to it?

I would get a cheaper DC for now (HFDC) and use the cyclone money for the TS. Then get the cyclone latter when you need it more.

[glenn bradley]

Obviously we all give our opinions based to some degree on what we do in the shop and what is important for us and the way we work. With that disclaimer out of the way I'm with Mike H. Dust collection is very important BUT, I would drag a small portable DC from tool to tool before I would want to be without the accuracy and convenience of a TS. Again, that's me . . . maybe not you ;-)

It will be interesting to see how long it takes for the guided circ saw folks to chime in. A GCS is a great solution for a serious space limitation. I could also see the benefit if you were troubled by hefting large panels around; some sheet material is really heavy. If I didn't have the room for a TS I would definitely look at them.

There is a valid argument that with a 'real' band saw, jointer and planer you don't really need the TS either. So much of what is important depends on what you plan to do in the shop.

[daniel lane]

Thanks to all of you for your responses so far. To clarify:
Workshop is in basement, immediately adjacent to HVAC air intake.
I'm an engineer that works a lot of my time near HAZMAT and in environments that prove that safety gear is important.That said, I have an 8" jointer and a 12.5" planer, plus a mini lathe, router, DCMS, and bandsaw from which to collect dust and chips while I wait for the TS. To me, the extra $500-$700 is money very well spent since:
I won't need to purchase something else in the future, so the workshop can be built and left "as is",
I have a bunch of dust/chips to collect, may as well do it right to begin with,
Did I mention that the workshop is immediately adjacent to the HVAC intake, and
Did I mention that I'm a neurotic engineer?To top it all off, I've had bad experiences with HAZMAT, including:
Getting such a major noseful of dimethyl chloride that I could not smell for 2 days and my nose weeped a clear, yellow fluid for 4 days,
Once literally passing out on a laboratory floor because some brilliant maintenance guy shut off the fume hood while I was performing dimethyl ether pesticide extractions.Combine all of the above numbered lists with the fact that I was blowing brown gunk out of my nose for 2 days after just sweeping and vacuuming the entire basement clean so I could paint the walls/floor, and you have my justification for spending money on DC before TS. :cool:


daniel

Edit: Lest it look like I was randomly taking deep sniffs of chemicals, the DMC incident above was due to someone dropping a 1 gal glass jug on the floor in an enclosed trailer with no venting. I got the snootful after I herded everyone out of the trailer and was headed back to get the SCBA/clean up kit. I just couldn't hold my breath long enough to get through the vapors...

[Jason Beam]

My advice? Do without until you've got the $$ for the saw you want. You have everything you need to do just fine on most cutting tasks without the TS for now. It's not quite as easy, may take a few creative setups, but it's perfectly workable. You may find that your bandsaw is your best purchse. If you have a miter saw (even better, a SCMS), your crosscuts will be decent enough. If you don't have a miter saw, yet, then I'd put your <$300 towards one and then survive without the TS until you've acquired enough cash. If you're going to be using sheet goods, a TS is very helpful, but you can get by pretty dang well with a circular saw and a few guide rails on sawhorses.

Heck, you may even discover that a shop works perfectly fine without one.

[Josiah Bartlett]

Why not buy a decent used contractor's saw off Craigslist, then sell it and get your dream saw when you can afford it?

I survived college and the first few years of my career with a used Delta contractor's saw that I had gotten at an estate sale for $80 (circa 1992). I had that saw for 10 years, and when I found a good deal on the Unisaw I have now I gave it to a kid who was just getting started. The Delta wasn't the best saw in the world but I certainly got by with it.

As long as you take care of it you should be able to get the money back that you paid out of a used saw.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I'd skip the DC and go for the TS.

In more than 30 years all I have ever had by way of DC was a broom and later a shop vac. Three decades or so ago I worked a commercial custom build shop in Boston where we were on three floors the B-I-G iron (it was big) was downstairs, Assembly was on second floor and finishing was on third floor. There was no DC only brooms.

Get the saw.

[Maurice Ungaro]

I'll echo Josiah's sentiment.
While constructing our house this year, I found myself needing a TS. I had a pretty good contractor TS in storage some miles away, so I ended up buying one of the Hitachi models at Lowe's. It cost $299, and actually came with a fairly decent blade. It also has a dust chute that connects directly to a 2.5" shopvac hose.

That saw allowed me to rip numerous trim boards, floor boards (for those fractional pieces next to the wall) and sheet goods. Was it money well spent? It allowed me to do the job and be productive. Now that I have my Unisaw, I keep the Hitachi up in the storage loft of my shop, just in case I do another project away from my shop.

[Michael Panis]

I understand wanting to have a dust collector, but do you already have an air filtration unit? If you're concerned about what you are breathing in, that's probably more important than the perfect dust collector.
I went awhile without a tablesaw, using one of those 9' guiderails and a circular saw mounted to a base that hooks on the rail (available at Rockler). You can get by with that setup, although the tablesaw is MUCH nicer.
But...it's going to kick up a lot of dust, which brings me back to the air filter...

[Art Mulder]

Any new $300 table saw that you are going to pickup is going to be money down the drain when you replace it with the Steel City one that you are after.

Yes.


Why not buy a decent used contractor's saw off Craigslist, then sell it and get your dream saw when you can afford it?


What he said.

Get a good used contractor's saw. They hold their value well. I had an old Rockwell-Beaver TS when I first started out. Used it for 4-5 years, and then sold it for pretty much the same price that I paid for it in the first place.

[Mike Wilkins]

Use that $300 as a starting point to build your savings reserve up. That way you will be on your way to purchasing a decent table saw later on. I started on an el-cheapo table top saw many years ago; low power and the rip fence was a joke.
Since you already have a bandsaw, use it for ripping and small crosscuts for now. The BS is a safer ripping alternative anyway, especially for those not-so-straight boards. Get one of the bandsaw books by Mark Duginske for some top-notch advice on these machines (I hope I spelled his name right).
Good luck and watch those fingers.

[Matt Moore]

I would think that a good air filter is even more important that the dust collector as someone else already mentioned.

If I were you..... I would buy a used or cheap DC and an air filter and get the saw. Or you could look for used items on all three and possibly get all of them for cheaper than your new cabinet saw.

I bought alot of new larger woodworking equipment and I regret that. I could have bought a used Unisaw for what I paid for my higher end contractor saw. That would have been a much better purchase as I now have my eyes on cabinet saws. Same for drill press, jointer and planer. I wish I bought used.

Have you planned for all the ducting that is required for a stationary DC. That can be very costly.

[Joe Jensen]

How badly do I need one, and if I need one really badly, what can I get for <$300 that will work for a while?

As far as getting along without one, I have a router, a bandsaw, and a circular saw, with which I can imagine getting a lot of the cuts done that I feel I need. Until I get the TS, I plan on building up the shop, so as far as what needs to be done, most of it is shop cabinetry and a workbench. Maybe some shelves and small portable tool stands. You know, half-lap joinery. ;)

So, what do y'all think?
Everyone has their own work style. For me, the tablesaw is the cornerstone of my shop. If I were you, I'd buy a used saw on Craig's List and live with that until you decide you need something more substantial.

Also, as an engineer too, make sure you consider the tools and ducting before buying a giant cyclone. I have a 2HP Oneida. I have enlarged the ports on all the tools I can, and 2HP is plenty. I have a 12" Powermatic planer that can make like 3X the chips of a lunchbox planer. With a 6" duct, I get zero chips. The table saw and band saw are much harder to deal with. I don't have an overhead blade guard port on the TS and I need one. I've been holding off as word is SawStop is developing one. Also, I have enlarged the port on my Laguna BS and I'm still not happy wth the collection. Too much dust makes all the way around both wheels and onto the table. I think CVC recommends a 5HP version, and that seems very large for the size tools you have unless you run REALLY large ducts. Also, the flex hose cuts airflow a ton, try to use steel duct and not flex for as much as possible. I have 6 machines plumbed and I am using less than 10' of flex. 5 of that is for the planer which moves so I need the flex.

You might want to find someone from this board in your area who has installed a dust collection system to see what performance they get with HP they have...joe

[daniel lane]

Also, as an engineer too, make sure you consider the tools and ducting before buying a giant cyclone. I have a 2HP Oneida. I have enlarged the ports on all the tools I can, and 2HP is plenty.

This comment has really intrigued me, but for fear of hijacking my own thread and turning it into a debate on the merits of different DC brands, I'm going to hold off on asking more questions. I will say that after consideration, my decision to go for the CVC was in no small part due to the fact that I would get the 5hp for roughly the same cost as the 2hp Super Gorilla. The performance curve (CFM/in.H2O) looks great (the only number I saw for the SG was ~1349CFM@2.5", the CVC curve shows ~1350CFM@5").

Also, since my shop is fairly small and I see myself running a total of about 40'-60' of duct, I plan on using 6" as far as I can regardless of what I buy, so that's not a factor.

There were other considerations, too, such as:
Baldor vs. Leeson motor,
Tools I would be using and their chip/dust creation rates,
Small shop, don't want to deal with a mobile DC system, and of course,
The clear cyclone is just cool. :cool:By the way, I've seen a shop locally that has a large cyclone DC system with multiple bags for return air, so while I've not seen a CVC or Oneida in a basement shop, I have seen DC and definitely want *something*!

Finally, just to be clear here, I really appreciate the input from everyone, so please don't take my follow-up posts as attempts to guide the input. I'm not giving you the opinion I want to hear, I'm just trying to clarify my thought process. For the most part, though, I don't think there's anything that can convince me not to get a cyclone DC system and build it into the shop now, rather than make do with less and retrofit something later.

Joe, thanks again for your input, and not all of this was directed at you - I was trying to combine responses. :)


daniel

[Gary Keedwell]

I'd skip the DC and go for the TS.

In more than 30 years all I have ever had by way of DC was a broom and later a shop vac. Three decades or so ago I worked a commercial custom build shop in Boston where we were on three floors the B-I-G iron (it was big) was downstairs, Assembly was on second floor and finishing was on third floor. There was no DC only brooms.

Get the saw.
I'm in Cliffy's corner on this one:eek: I have a portable that I wheel to each machine, an air cleaner at the ceiling and floor fans pointed to the bulkhead. Not perfect, but good enough for this hobbyist.
Gary K.

[Jim O'Dell]

The other thing is to watch Lowes very very closely. They have closed out most of their Delta fences, and still have Delta table saws in stock. These could go on a lowball sale before long, and you should be able to get a deal on a used fence someone took off to put a T-2 or Biese on, for next to nothing. Since you aren't in a hurry, sit back and watch. You can also get some of the clamp-able straight edge guides that would work for a temporary guide for use with the circular saw. Watch Craigs list and the paper for your area every day for a deal on a good used TS. This way you can resell later and not lose a bunch in the process. Jim.

[Joe Jensen]

This comment has really intrigued me, but for fear of hijacking my own thread and turning it into a debate on the merits of different DC brands, I'm going to hold off on asking more questions. I will say that after consideration, my decision to go for the CVC was in no small part due to the fact that I would get the 5hp for roughly the same cost as the 2hp Super Gorilla. The performance curve (CFM/in.H2O) looks great (the only number I saw for the SG was ~1349CFM@2.5", the CVC curve shows ~1350CFM@5").

Also, since my shop is fairly small and I see myself running a total of about 40'-60' of duct, I plan on using 6" as far as I can regardless of what I buy, so that's not a factor.

There were other considerations, too, such as:

Baldor vs. Leeson motor,
Tools I would be using and their chip/dust creation rates,
Small shop, don't want to deal with a mobile DC system, and of course,
The clear cyclone is just cool. :cool:By the way, I've seen a shop locally that has a large cyclone DC system with multiple bags for return air, so while I've not seen a CVC or Oneida in a basement shop, I have seen DC and definitely want *something*!

Finally, just to be clear here, I really appreciate the input from everyone, so please don't take my follow-up posts as attempts to guide the input. I'm not giving you the opinion I want to hear, I'm just trying to clarify my thought process. For the most part, though, I don't think there's anything that can convince me not to get a cyclone DC system and build it into the shop now, rather than make do with less and retrofit something later.

Joe, thanks again for your input, and not all of this was directed at you - I was trying to combine responses. :)


daniel

Just to clarify, my point was a 6" duct running to a machine with a 4" port will only be marginally better than a 5" or 4" duct. There will be a little less duct loss, but the small port will by far be the limiter. I'm not an expert, but I think the 5" SP will help a small port over the 2.5" SP, but I bet that 2.5" of SP with a 5" port and duct is better than a 5" SP, 6" Duct, and 4" port.

The clear cyclone is cool, but I would rather have quiet. Just something to consider. Doesn't being an analytic suck sometimes :eek:

Lastly, my 2HP Super Gorilla came with a Baldor motor.

[Doug Shepard]

...
The clear cyclone is cool, but I would rather have quiet.
...

I was initially concerned about that too especially after hearing that 5 HP beast power up without the ducts, filter, and insulated DC closet. Standing in the family room (the 2nd location in this thread with the decibel figures)
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=64272
it's very quiet. If you were visiting and didn't know what it was when I powered it up, you'd think it was just the HVAC motor kicking on for the air conditioning. Standing in the shop at the belt/disc sander, I cant hear the DC unit even without putting something to the disc. I have to shut the sander off before I can notice the DC.

[daniel lane]

Lastly, my 2HP Super Gorilla came with a Baldor motor.

Joe,

I failed to elaborate on my comment, and you've reminded me. I've had a thing against Baldor motors lately, due to some really <censored> problems at work. We've had several Baldors fail in completely innocuous environments, including one brand new washdown duty motor that shorted when some water dripped on it. At the same time, all of our Leeson motors have been operating like a dream. So for the last 2-3 weeks, I've been cursing Baldor and praising Leeson.

Today I heard an opinion from one of our equipment vendors (that I respect greatly) about how good Baldor motors have been for them. So I'm reconsidering my grudge and thinking that maybe I'll just complain about our bad luck. I retain the right to go back to my grudge if some of our replacement motors fail, but for now... Anyway, that's the story behind my comment.

And yes, being an analytic really does suck sometimes; I spend so much time reviewing options I get stuck in "analysis paralysis" and don't act. That's another reason I've opted for the CVC...my gut says go for it, I can't see how I would get burned, so I'm thinking "make a freakin' decision and go with it!" :D


daniel

[Tim Morton]

Buy a gorilla and a grizzly 1023 for about the same price as the cyclone and the $300 TS you are thinking about. You will be set for life. Do not buy a contractor saw if you are concerned about dust collection. Its alomst impossible to collect dust from any type of TS except a cabinet saw.

[Chuck Lenz]

Do not buy a contractor saw if you are concerned about dust collection. Its alomst impossible to collect dust from any type of TS except a cabinet saw.
Once AGAIN I have to disagree with that myth.

[Rick Potter]

Just pick up a good used Craftsman table saw for $200 or less. Keep it untill you are ready to move up, then sell it for what you paid for it. There are a lot of them around and easy to find. If you want to know what to look for, e-mail me and I will give you some pointers.

Rick Potter

[Larry Rasmussen]

I like my Bosch 4000 and prices are going down as they have a new one in the line. It has a dust port, stays aligned and vertical and is reasonably quiet. I am remembering a couple of the contractor's saws in my past and they sounded like a jet taking off. I wear hearing protection but I am in a neighborhood. I use just Bosch just to rip. Put a decent blade in it and it will go right though plywood or 1X, 2X material feeds slow but cuts without stalling.

I was looking hard at cabinet or hybrids but am thinking I may just wait until a good riving knife set up appears on a 10" I can afford. As far as wasting money, it would be re sellable, much more so than a used contractor's saw.

Larry

[Bob Feeser]

No matter what you do with a dust collection system, you are still going to get fine particulate into the air. You appear to have a sensitivity to regular dust as well as the potent stuff like pesticides. Maybe I am stepping out of bounds, but it is a possiblity that your exposure to pesiticides has created a critical threshold in your system for any kind of contaminents. So onto some suggestions.
The bottom line on lung protection is a good paint and dust respirator mask, like a 3M or Norton, the type available at your paint and body shop supplier, or even a Home Depot model that goes for about 30 dollars. Even more importantly if you are using chemicals, then you should be using a mask like I just mentioned with a carbon filter, but one that also has a chemical filter. Those masks require you to keep them in a sealed closed bag, because if you leave them out, the oxygen, or whatever neutralizes their effectiveness. DO NOT confuse this with one of those mickey mouse paper masks, they are just like having no mask on at all. They leak like a sieve. Get a real mask.
I too have a shop next to an HVAC unit in the basement. When sweeping out a basement, especially for the first time, it is possible that mouse droppings may be present, that completely dehydrate, creating nasty airborne dust when swept, a known cause of a special bad news virus. Once again a mask in front of you, that you can conveniently pop over your face is a constant tool you want on, and at your disposal. I also have a fresh air system, that I can use if I am going to be at a single station for an elongated period of time, but I think I am roaming from the original topic of this thread.
Next point is that I have 2 JDS dust collectors on the ceiling, and they spew out ultra fine particles less than 1 micron in size. They are the ones that do the damage. So what I really love is a simple 20 dollar box fan in a window, that is sucking the air out of the shop. By having a cross venitilation window open on the other side of the shop, the window fan does a nice job.
What is really important, and is ultimately the strongest bottom line, is that I keep my mask draped in front of me, and when I start to create dust, I pull the strap up over my head, and breathe nothing but super filtered air. Even the 3M standard carbon filter mask, takes out particulates so fine, that it even removes invisible odors. I used masks in a shop that I owned for 20 years, spraying urethanes (chemical mask for that one) and do not have any problems.
I am hesistant to address the pesticide problem, but I can be polite, and stand by the wayside, or I can say something, and possibly make a difference. I have a saying that goes, "Whatever kills kills"
So my suggestion is to buy the table saw, get a box fan, put it in a window with cross ventilation, seal off your HVAC area, even if you have to build an airtight box around it, and first and foremost, get a good mask for constant use until the air clears in the shop, and that means if you are running dust collectors, that is never.
Fine Woodworking magazine ran a shootout of the cabinet saws, and they gave an editors best buy or award or its equivalent to a grizzly model. It wasn't perfect, but for the, as I recally 8 or 900 dollar price tag it was a nice unit for the money. I am sure you can look up the model by doing a search here at SMC for Fine Woodworking table saws, or cabinet saws etc. The link was posted several times. It probably is the same model as recommended here in this thread by fellow creekers.
I am not a physician, a dust collection expert, HVAC expert, nor do I know what your situation, condition or anything else, so my real advise is to ask a professional in each of the areas of concern what is best for you. I am only mentioning what I would do. I had an experience many years ago by not wearing a mask at all, while spraying urethanes with hardeners in it, called isocyinates. Which I later referred to them as iso cyanide, and spent the next day spitting something in the shower, that looked like it would get up and crawl away. From then on I always, always, always wore a mask in the presence of hazardous chemicals.
Sometimes love comes with a pat on the back, and sometimes it comes with a kick in the butt. :o


Thanks to all of you for your responses so far. To clarify:

Workshop is in basement, immediately adjacent to HVAC air intake.
I'm an engineer that works a lot of my time near HAZMAT and in environments that prove that safety gear is important.That said, I have an 8" jointer and a 12.5" planer, plus a mini lathe, router, DCMS, and bandsaw from which to collect dust and chips while I wait for the TS. To me, the extra $500-$700 is money very well spent since:

I won't need to purchase something else in the future, so the workshop can be built and left "as is",
I have a bunch of dust/chips to collect, may as well do it right to begin with,
Did I mention that the workshop is immediately adjacent to the HVAC intake, and
Did I mention that I'm a neurotic engineer?To top it all off, I've had bad experiences with HAZMAT, including:

Getting such a major noseful of dimethyl chloride that I could not smell for 2 days and my nose weeped a clear, yellow fluid for 4 days,
Once literally passing out on a laboratory floor because some brilliant maintenance guy shut off the fume hood while I was performing dimethyl ether pesticide extractions.Combine all of the above numbered lists with the fact that I was blowing brown gunk out of my nose for 2 days after just sweeping and vacuuming the entire basement clean so I could paint the walls/floor, and you have my justification for spending money on DC before TS. :cool:


daniel

Edit: Lest it look like I was randomly taking deep sniffs of chemicals, the DMC incident above was due to someone dropping a 1 gal glass jug on the floor in an enclosed trailer with no venting. I got the snootful after I herded everyone out of the trailer and was headed back to get the SCBA/clean up kit. I just couldn't hold my breath long enough to get through the vapors...

[Josiah Bartlett]

Once AGAIN I have to disagree with that myth.


Yeah, I had a much easier time collecting dust from my old Delta contractor's saw than my Unisaw. With a zero clearance insert and all the hatches and covers and stuff in the cabinet it doesn't do much at all.

[Steve Rybicki]

No matter what you do with a dust collection system, you are still going to get fine particulate into the air.

Bob, I appreciate your post. I've just recently been researching dust collecting. I've been wanting to eliminate having to work with a dust mask on, but after reading your post, I'm wondering if that's possible and still remain healthy.

Some of the cyclone systems say that they collect 99% of particles between .2 and 2 microns. Are you saying that .2 micron collection isn't small enough or are you saying that the 1% of those that get through - are still too many for good health?

[Wilbur Pan]

What I thought I'd ask all of you, is this: How badly do I need one, and if I need one really badly, what can I get for <$300 that will work for a while?

The easy way to find out is to start building stuff. If you can finish projects, you don't need a tablesaw. If you get to a point where you can't proceed with your project, then that's the point that you need a tablesaw.

Having said that, I have a bandsaw, and no tablesaw in my shop. For cutting sheet goods, a wide 10-14 tpi blade can give you surprisingly good results.

[Bob Feeser]

Bob, I appreciate your post. I've just recently been researching dust collecting. I've been wanting to eliminate having to work with a dust mask on, but after reading your post, I'm wondering if that's possible and still remain healthy.

Some of the cyclone systems say that they collect 99% of particles between .2 and 2 microns. Are you saying that .2 micron collection isn't small enough or are you saying that the 1% of those that get through - are still too many for good health?

Steve,
Considering the numbers you have provided, I may have overstated my case. My intent was to shed some light on the illusion that is created by most of the standard units, that I also use. Unfortunately, I am not qualified to comment on what are safe levels of wood particles in the air, and their effect they would have on any given individual. The cyclone units are sweet though, I wish I had one. My dream shop has a cyclone unit, with an outside separator. Most shop level systems are spewers. A good face mask at the ready to pop over your nose and mouth at those dusty moments goes a long way to save your lungs. It is not a nuisance when you use it only occassionally, like at those times when a dust cloud is being created.
People with brown lung disease or other health sensitivities need to go to the n'th degree. A fresh air suppllied system is absolutely clean, but the model that I have requires a hose attachment. I know that their are other models with a helmet that filter air instead.
I would reccommend the book I bought a couple of years ago on Woodshop Dust Collection, but newer books have arrived since then. I would check the Amazon reviews and ratings, and pick up a good one, if you haven't already. That is money well spent, especially when you are in the design stages, or anytime for that matter.

[daniel lane]

Since I've not been around for a little while, I'm going to combine thoughts:


The easy way to find out is to start building stuff. If you can finish projects, you don't need a tablesaw.

Wilbur, that is really a great way to look at this. As I plan some of the shop cabinet construction that follows framing up the shop, I've spent more time trying to figure out a way to do the jointery without a table saw. I find that I'm thinking things through much more this way, rather than just assuming I'll do a cut on the TS. I'm going to do exactly this, and when I finally bump up against that wall, I'll revisit this topic. Thanks! :)


No matter what you do with a dust collection system, you are still going to get fine particulate into the air. You appear to have a sensitivity to regular dust as well as the potent stuff like pesticides.

Bob, thanks for your input. I may have given the wrong impression here...I have no sensitivity, at least no more than your average healthy person, but instead have had some bad experiences and wish to do what I can to ensure that I never have another. My workshop is in the third of my basement that has no windows, so I have neither natural lighting nor a place to vent DC exhaust. Because of this, I'm planning on spending a higher proportion of my budget on DC.

At this point I realize that my OP has been hijacked, in no small part due to my own posts. So I'll just say this (to everyone) and hope that we can get back on track:

I'm spending what some may consider a lot of money on dust collection because I don't view anything else as an option. I've looked for months at the portable units, but I want higher velocities (due to several pieces of equipment), fixed piping (due to shop size/layout), and minimal dust exhausted back into the shop (see above about not being able to vent outside). I've looked at several cyclone systems, and I've found one way to achieve 99.99% efficiency at 0.5 micron. Is it the only way? Probably not, but I'm happy with it, and I feel it gives me the maximum amount of growth opportunity when I leave my current house. Because I don't have a good way to exhaust dusty air, I intend to keep looking at other options, including air cleaners that have sub-micron filters. But for dust control and peace of mind, I've made my decision.

Once again, because the internet does not allow easy conveyance of one's attitude, I'd like to thank everyone for their input - I read just about everything I can on this site, and I learn a lot every day. The posts in response to my original question have been very educational and interesting, whether focused on the saw question or the dust control question, and I appreciate everyone taking the time to respond.

That said, I'd like to say that in response to Wilbur's post, I'm going to hold off on looking for something at the moment, and focus on the tools I have. And of course, a recent issue of WOOD magazine had a great article on half-lap jointery without a TS, so I'm going to continue to plan on that sort of thing until I hit the proverbial wall, and THEN I'll deal with my lack of TS.

Thanks again, everyone.


daniel