22124, 36-717, or just new fence/old saw till....

[Grant Vanbokklen]

Ok so I hear about a fence deal here and I go with a friend and we find the two Biesemeyers and a Unifence on clearance at the local Lowes. So now I've got two fences a Uni and Biese because I could not help myself :D. I figured I could easily sell the one I decide not to use. My friend got the other Biese.

However, I've also been thinking about the Craftsman 22124 because of what I've read because of the price it can be had for. And because at work we have a Delta 36-717 that we've been using for about 6 months now. The Delta 36-717 is MUCH MUCH smoother and nicer to cut on than my current contractors saw. I am very impressed with the 36-717. I've read that the Craftsman 22124 is really just a Delta 36-717 with some minor changes. Is this true? The price is a few hundred less for the Craftsman.

Or should I just mount one of the fences (Beisemeyer or Uni) to my older contractor saw and wait for a used Cabinet Saw or even longer wait for a new one that I could mount one of these fences too. About 5yrs ago I did a pully upgrade and the link-belt upgrade which made my contractors saw smoother, but no where near as smooth and as good a cutter as the 36-717 we have at work, or a better cabinet saw would be. But a better fence would make my saw safer and easier to use for the time being. But I really do hate the thought of putting to much into this saw since I know sometime down the line I'll get a better one. I worked this week though on hooking up my DC to my saw by building a 4" chute and covering the back as has been posted here. Dust collection has always been a factor in my wanting a cabinet style saw.

I've been looking online (eBay and Craigslist) for a local "deal" for a used cabinet saw for over a half year now and have not found any to my liking that I could pickup locally. Eventually I would like this to be a final table saw purchase ;). I do have a 240vac outlet in my garage for washer/dryer that is not being used because they are 120vac.

Anyone want to share insight on what to do?

[Josiah Bartlett]

I scored my Unisaw on Craig's by being lucky, and I'm glad I did, I haven't seen another since. I've been very happy with it, and I'll never go back to contractor's saws. The cabinet saws are worth every pound of weight.

[Curt Harms]

But that doesn't stop my having an opinion, everybody's got one:eek:




However, I've also been thinking about the Craftsman 22124 because of what I've read because of the price it can be had for. And because at work we have a Delta 36-717 that we've been using for about 6 months now. The Delta 36-717 is MUCH MUCH smoother and nicer to cut on than my current contractors saw. I am very impressed with the 36-717. I've read that the Craftsman 22124 is really just a Delta 36-717 with some minor changes. Is this true? The price is a few hundred less for the Craftsman.

AFAIK the biggest selling point for the Craftsman 22124 over the Craftsman 22104 or 22114 is that the 22124 comes with a Biesmeyer fence. You already have that base covered. Sears recently had a clearance sale on I believe the 22104. You might still find one?

The difference between the Orion/Steel City saws is that those saws have the trunnion assembly attached to the cabinet like the 3 h.p. cabinet saws while the Delta, Grizzly and Powermatic hybrid saws have the trunnion assembly attached to the table top like a contractor's saw. The trunnion assembly attached to the cabinet is generally considered easier to align and adjust.


Or should I just mount one of the fences (Beisemeyer or Uni) to my older contractor saw and wait for a used Cabinet Saw or even longer wait for a new one that I could mount one of these fences too. About 5yrs ago I did a pully upgrade and the link-belt upgrade which made my contractors saw smoother, but no where near as smooth and as good a cutter as the 36-717 we have at work, or a better cabinet saw would be. But a better fence would make my saw safer and easier to use for the time being. But I really do hate the thought of putting to much into this saw since I know sometime down the line I'll get a better one. I worked this week though on hooking up my DC to my saw by building a 4" chute and covering the back as has been posted here. Dust collection has always been a factor in my wanting a cabinet style saw.

I've been looking online (eBay and Craigslist) for a local "deal" for a used cabinet saw for over a half year now and have not found any to my liking that I could pickup locally. Eventually I would like this to be a final table saw purchase ;). I do have a 240vac outlet in my garage for washer/dryer that is not being used because they are 120vac.

Anyone want to share insight on what to do?I have a Grizzly 1023 and do not regret my purchase. If You do have 240 volts available, You should consider a 3 h.p. saw. If You really want a cabinet saw, a hybrid saw may feel like a half measure and down the road You'll want to sell the hybrid and get a "real" cabinet saw. If so, it'd probably be more economical to get the 3 h.p. saw now rather than upgrading again in a few years. On the other hand, people that have the Craftsman hybrid are perfectly content with it. The hybrid saw does everything they expect a saw to do and have no need or intention of upgrading to a 3 h.p. cabinet saw. The market is going through some changes now with riving knives becoming commonplace, integrated sliding tables ala Rikon, sawstop style safety-related technology after years (decades) of essentially Unisaw knockoffs. Only You can make that decision.

HTH

Curt

[Steve Rybicki]

I made a similar decision recently. I was deciding between updating my old contractors saw or buying new. When I decided to buy new, I then had to decide between a 3 hp cabinet saw and a lower hp hybrid. Most recommended the 3 hp and I thought they were probably right.

However, my decision changed after I read some reviews and carefully analyzed my needs. Most influential was this review:
http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/industry-news.asp?sectionID=1492&articleID=501503

Power was not my concern and the reviews suggested that the Grizzly had plenty for most people. So, even though I didn't go with one you're considering, I did go with a Grizzly hybrid. I'm very satisfied so far. It has far more power than my old contractors saw - more than I think I'll ever need. I've put some 8/4 maple through it and the saw cut this as easily as I could have imagined. I don't think my old saw cut pine this quickly.

The fence is sturdy and accurate. It passes the "nickel test" with ease. The cuts are so smooth, they look like they came from a jointer. All adjustments were spot-on out of the box. I didn't need to adjust anything.

I'm very happy going with a hybrid, and I have a feeling most non-commercial woodworkers would be too. If you're cutting a lot of very thick hardwoods, the 3 hp saws make a lot of sense. Otherwise, you can saw a bit of money and likely have a very similar experience with a hybrid.

[Grant Vanbokklen]

Josiah,
Thanks for the insight. I think your right that ultimately I'd like to have a Unisaw at home.

Curt,
Thanks also. I don't subscribe to any mags or look online all that much so I don't know all the details of who is making what. And really did not know about Steel City till you mentioned it here. I was under the impression that I could get a 22124 for $600 or less, but after further research last night that does not look possible.

Regarding the trunnion's, What models numbers exactly are you saying are different? I guess I need to do more research. I was under the impression that the Hybrid saw did have a cabinet mount but were just using 120vac and less HP. What should be considered a definition for "Hybrid"?

And again yes, I'm leaning toward waiting and getting a good cabinet saw.

Steve,
Thanks also. That was a good review. I guess I might have read into posts here that the 22124 and the 36-717 were nearly exact, but that review got me wondering. I have been very impressed with the 36-717. But I'm curious as to why the Biesemeyer fence system did not get more mention as a feature on the saws that had them. Is the Grizzly fence really that good compared to a Biesemeyer, will it last as long and stay true? I have most experience with the Biesemeyer and think it is a great fence system. But reading that review again made me want a better saw even more.

A poor man cannot afford cheap tools. My gut feelings make me wonder about the life and durability of these less expensive tools. How long really will they run smooth and true?

So I've come to the conclusion that for the time being I'm going to put the Unifence on my contractors saw since I don't have much experience with the Unifence. That way I can continue to use the Biesemeyer at work and compare it with the Unifence at home and see what I really like, trying to ignore in the comparison my much rougher running saw that I have at home. I also put the effort into making my saw have better DC ability this week and so far that looks to be working much much better. I'll keep looking for a used but great condtion Unisaw in the interim.

Again, thanks to all for the input.

[Chuck Lenz]

Grant, I've never used a Biesemeyer fence, but I've had the Unifence on my saw since 1995 and I'm very happy with it. I think you will be too.

[scott spencer]

Hi Grant - The biggest difference between the Delta and the 22124 (http://www.epinions.com/content_184778395268) is the style of trunnion system and the way it mounts. The Orion and Steel City hybrids have cabinet mounted trunnions that are easier to align, and also add alot of mass....the 22124 is probably over 100# heavier than the Delta.

Addign a new fence to your contractor saw will be a nice improvement, but it won't help it run any smoother....sounds like you'd need to add a link belt and maybe new pulleys to accomplish that.

My 22124 was a nice upgrade from my GI contractor saw. Good luck with your decision.

FWIW, the Steel City has a $100 rebate making it $900 at Woodcraft.

A full blown 3hp industrial cabinet saw is definitely a more substantial machine than the hybrids, but it will require 220v.

[Grant Vanbokklen]

Hi Grant - The biggest difference between the Delta and the 22124 (http://www.epinions.com/content_184778395268) is the style of trunnion system and the way it mounts. The Orion and Steel City hybrids have cabinet mounted trunnions that are easier to align, and also add alot of mass....the 22124 is probably over 100# heavier than the Delta.

Addign a new fence to your contractor saw will be a nice improvement, but it won't help it run any smoother....sounds like you'd need to add a link belt and maybe new pulleys to accomplish that.

My 22124 was a nice upgrade from my GI contractor saw. Good luck with your decision.

FWIW, the Steel City has a $100 rebate making it $900 at Woodcraft.

A full blown 3hp industrial cabinet saw is definitely a more substantial machine than the hybrids, but it will require 220v.

Scott,
Yeah I was mistaken about the Craftsman 22124 and the Delta 36-717 being the same. It was the Steel City and the 22124. I was mistaking the Delta and Orion (former Delta employees) connection. Orion being the company that makes both the Craftman and Steel City. I think I've got it right now anyway.

I'm just curious was there a reason you did not go with the Delta 36-7171 Hybrid? Or did you even consider it in your search for a new saw? The one we have at work has no quirks at all and could probably pass the nickle test while we are using it all day! I read here a post about a few that had vibration at shutdown, the one we use does not.

But I still wonder about the life of these saws, if they are skimping on metal quailty, or bolt holes are not tapped well, etc.. That has been my impression of some of the things coming out of China recently. It would be nice to try a 22124 to see actually how it performs. Do any of these saws sell without the fence system for great prices?

And I did do the pully and belt thing less than a year after I got my saw back in the mid 90s, it helped, but is not even close to the 36-717's preformance.

[scott spencer]

Scott,
Yeah I was mistaken about the Craftsman 22124 and the Delta 36-717 being the same. It was the Steel City and the 22124. I was mistaking the Delta and Orion (former Delta employees) connection. Orion being the company that makes both the Craftman and Steel City. I think I've got it right now anyway.

I'm just curious was there a reason you did not go with the Delta 36-7171 Hybrid? Or did you even consider it in your search for a new saw? The one we have at work has no quirks at all and could probably pass the nickle test while we are using it all day! I read here a post about a few that had vibration at shutdown, the one we use does not.

But I still wonder about the life of these saws, if they are skimping on metal quailty, or bolt holes are not tapped well, etc.. That has been my impression of some of the things coming out of China recently. It would be nice to try a 22124 to see actually how it performs. Do any of these saws sell without the fence system for great prices?

And I did do the pully and belt thing less than a year after I got my saw back in the mid 90s, it helped, but is not even close to the 36-717's preformance.

The 22124 and the Delta hybrids actually share quite a few parts. The motor, motor mounting assembly, drive system, on/off switch, and several other more minor parts appear to be the same. I grabbed the 22124 b/c of an extreme sale price of $594 w/free delivery. The advantage of the cabinet mounted trunnions would probably persuade me to make the same choice again, but I'm sure either would serve you well.

I have no way of knowing how long the saw will hold up, but there are alot of them out there, and the track record seems to be pretty good so far...knock wood. I wouldn't recommend subjecting it to a commercial environment long term, but for a hobbyist they should hold up as well as any. Mine's been going strong for nearly 2-1/2 years now.

Maybe there's an owner near you who will give you a test drive. You might be able to check out the Steel City at a Woodcraft.

[Steve Rybicki]

Josiah,

Steve,
Thanks also. That was a good review. I guess I might have read into posts here that the 22124 and the 36-717 were nearly exact, but that review got me wondering. I have been very impressed with the 36-717. But I'm curious as to why the Biesemeyer fence system did not get more mention as a feature on the saws that had them. Is the Grizzly fence really that good compared to a Biesemeyer, will it last as long and stay true?

I have limited experience with a Biesemeyer. I have a friend with one and I've played with it a bit. From what I can see, they are very comparable fence systems. The Grizzly may be a bit smoother, but both appear very strong and accurate. When I test for deflection, neither appears to move much with quite a bit of pressure applied. Personally, I wouldn't make a decision based on the difference between them.


My gut feelings make me wonder about the life and durability of these less expensive tools. How long really will they run smooth and true?

The 3 hp Grizzly (which has a very good reputation) costs about $250 more than the hybrid. The difference being a larger motor, cabinet mounted trunions and a different fence model. Having seen both saws at their store, and knowing the weights of the saws, I can't see anything else that would "cheapen" the hybrid. I think these features account fully for the price differences. The hybrid is near 400 lbs with the fence attached and runs as smooth as anything I could have wished for.

If the trunions hold their adjustment, I can't see what else could cause it to run significantly different down the road. In fact, I had my Craftsman saw for over 20 years and I would say when I got rid of it, it ran about identical to when it was new. On this particular Craftsman, even the trunions held their adjustments for many years. My new saw is so much nicer than the Craftsman, in every way, that I feel confident that it will run well and last a couple lifetimes - at least.