Which Laser works best to kiss cut edible paper ?

[Paul Liu]

Hi -

I'm not in the workworking business, but this site seems to be the goto place for user feedback on laser machines. Reading thru the various posts have been helpful but now I have a specific question.

I'm interested in getting a laser machine where the primary use is for kiss cutting edible papers into various shapes (i.e. ovals, footballs, helmets, etc). These papers are very thin starch/sugar paper. This paper is what is typically used in supermarkets that offer photo cakes. This kiss cutting has been tested successfully on both Universal and LaserPro machines, so I suspect no brand will have problem making this cut.

My main concern here is speed and smoothness of the curves on the cuts. Surface/Cutting area is not as much of a concern for me because the largest sheets we would use measure 11 x 17.

Does anyone have any insight as to which brand can give me the best speed/smooth cut ratio ? Also, does stepper vs servo motors come into play significantly here ?

The other uses I potentially have are (1) cutting packaging foam to be used for use in shipping cookie gift boxes, (2) engraving/cutting logo on wooden boxes to be filled with treats and (3) cutting of MDF/particle boards to create molds that I use for other things (1/2 inch thickness is preferred, but I can also cut 1/4' and glue together for increased thickness).

What kind of wattage should I be thinking about for these uses ?

Thank you in advance for your replies !

[Mike Hood]

I'd say servos will give you the smoothest and fastest curves. Also... even though it won't require much power... having enough will allow you to cut at higher speeds.

My Explorer will cut very fast at higher power settings and if time is any concern I'd think 25W-40W would be a minimum for most any cutting jobs.

[Rodne Gold]

You could use 5w to cut your edible papers and will need 100+ watts to cut 1/2" mdf decently.

[Stephen Beckham]

Paul,

My biggest concern would be the cleanliness of the machine. After cutting a few pieces of MDF - I'm not sure you could clean the machine enough to place anything edible back in the machine.

Call me silly, but you may be better off with a vinyl cutter for the edible paper and the laser for the other stuff. If you're looking at a 11X17 - you should be able to get a nice cutter that could do that and if it has the sole purpose of paper only - and there wouldn't be a cross contamination problem...

Steve

[Scott Shepherd]

I don't believe you'll find any difference in servos versus stepper motors in curve quality. I have an Epilog Helix that has servos and now a Universal with steppers and I'd offer up that you'll not be able to find any difference in quality of a curve between the two. If anything, the cut is smoother on the Universal, but that's possibly a function of the way the driver handles curves rather than the ability for a servo to produce it.

Coming from the CNC world, servos were always better, but having said that, stepper motor machines have been producing incredible accuracy for years. The SR-71 Blackbird, the Space Shuttle, the F-14 Tomcat were all manufactured when stepper motors were used.

If you'd asked me 6 months ago which is better (and I am on record saying it), I'd say hands down, the servo. However, having this machine I have now, I can do nothing but admit I was incorrect when it comes to laser engraving machinery.

[Joe Pelonio]

I have not tried edible paper, but have done other food products. The problem is the sugar. Anything with sugar will carmelize and it not only turns brown but affects the taste. Starch turns to sugar and burns with heat too.

I also have been in contact with the people at the Food Network's "Ace of Cakes" who told me via e-mail that they had given up trying to use a laser on
fondant and molding chocolate for that same reason.

It may be that the the edible paper is so thin and has less sugar so will cut OK. You said it had been tested, but I'd make sure of that or test it on someone else's laser before buying one for that purpose.

I cut 1/4" MDF easily with 45 watts, but for 3/8" I had to make two passes.

Stephen,

A plotter would work as long as the edible paper was mounted onto a carrier/backing. When I cut odd materials on a plotter I use an artist's temporary spray adhesive to attach it to a carrier, for this edible paper they would have to come up with an edible temporary adhesive that wouldn't melt it.

If you cut without a backing the piece falls out and gets crunched up, and the blade hits the cutting bed strip on the machine.

[Stephen Beckham]

Joe - good points... I was more concerned with the left over smoke and dust from cutting anything... I'm constantly cleaning the machine just keep the yuk out... I couldn't imagine laying something edible in my machine unless there was some sacrificial wax paper or something under it. Then you'd have the problem of the vacuum table not holding down the edible paper?!?!

Boy this one's a challenge... I'll stick to my plaques and veneer...

[Joe Pelonio]

Joe - good points... I was more concerned with the left over smoke and dust from cutting anything... I'm constantly cleaning the machine just keep the yuk out... I couldn't imagine laying something edible in my machine unless there was some sacrificial wax paper or something under it. Then you'd have the problem of the vacuum table not holding down the edible paper?!?!

Boy this one's a challenge... I'll stick to my plaques and veneer...
When I engrave cookies I always lay them on a paper towel, if just 1-2 I fold it so the edges don't fly up. Wax paper will melt onto the food so it's better to use food grade parchment paper or a small cooling rack under food for cutting.

[Paul Liu]

Thank you all for the informative responses.

Joe - Agreed on the food engraving issue. I first tried food engraving with laser about 6 years ago. Took about 30 minutes to realize that wasn't a commercial possibility because of the burnt taste. Same thing happens on this edible paper, but the burnt taste is not an issue here because the entire design is printed with food coloring. The laser is intended to only cut out the shape to be laid onto food products. The burnt area is limited to a very thin line around the edge of the image. This is easily masked by the flavor of the baked good.

Stephen - Thank you for the vinyl cutting suggestion. I talked to a few vendors this morning and am sending the paper in for testing. Each edible paper actually already comes with a wax paper backing, so maybe this will work out ok. If it does, then you just saved me a bundle of money ! :)

[Joe Pelonio]

see the thread on plotters in the signs section.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=63985

[James A. Wolfe]

Paul,
Some years ago I worked on the development of Edible Images, an edible paper based product created with an inkjet printer. We found that the best substrate for us was a rice paper product. The starch will discolor only slightly and we found no objectionable taste. There are paper products made from potato and corn starch as well but they were more like a card stock than a paper. If you're using the shapes as bases then this is one way to go.
Are you primarily interested in placing cutout shapes onto the cakes? If you are looking for a large quantity of shapes, a conventional die cutter may be your best bet.

Keep us posted.
Jim

[Paul Liu]

Joe - Thanks for the thread info. If the tests prove successful, then I'll move to determining which cutter best to go with. I might be limited since the printer I use is not standard in the industry, and I need one to print registration mark for accurate cutting of the images printed. One vendor told me that the Roland GX24 comes with a standard software that will allow me to do this with any printer, but I've not confirmed that yet.

Jim - Rice paper is fairly thick and wrinkles with touch of moisture so it's tough to handle. I don't know when you tested this product, but there is one patented edible paper made by a bakery industry supplier that works real well. The intended application is actually chocolates. We sell into the promotional product space (logo'd items) and quantiy generally range from about 200 to 2500. It's a new line for us, so not sure what the response is going to be like. I was looking for a flexible method so that we can offer variety of sizes to start.

Thanks again for all of your insights and thoughts.