what shaper to buy

[Jason Boushard]

I need a good shaper for doing kitchen cabinets, crown, molding all the basics with making and installing your own kitchen cabinets any suggestions for a guy on a tight budget? I was told my 1.75 hp router wont hack it even if mounted to a table.

[Jim Kountz]

Well you're right about your particular router, it is a little underpowered for what you described. That being said however you could get a larger one that would do the job for less than a shaper. That being said however you would then need to buy/build a table to mount it in and a good fence system etc etc. The old shaper vs router debate is long going and will probably never really be settled. To answer your original question if you are on a tight budget take a look at the 3hp Grizzly shaper. Its a workhorse of a shaper and would do just about anything you throw at it. If I were ever going to buy another shaper I would have at least the 3hp or larger. With the smaller ones you basically have an overgrown router in a metal cabinet.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Jason....Years ago, I was thinking of getting a shaper. However, I've found that a decent table mounted 3HP (15 amp at 110V) router works just fine for my hobby needs. This decision was made 20 years ago, and it turned out to be the right one for me. In fact, I've found that a router is much more ideal for the molding work that I perform and powerful enough to raise panel doors, albeit not quickly. Also, the diversity of router bits offered these days are astounding.

My caveats. I do not do woodworking for a living, and therefore, I'm not into 'production'. My shop is very small and space is limited and valuable. Lastly, my research indicates that a decent shaper is a 'real' 3 hp and one should also have an appropriately sized stock feeder mounted to the shaper. This cost should be factored into your budget as well as the high cost of shaper cutters vs. router bits.

-Jeff :)

[Allen Bookout]

I am also on a budget so a good 5hp shaper and a 1hp feeder are out of the question for me right now although I really want one. I guess that a 3hp shaper would do it but from what I am hearing it is a little underpowered for one pass raised panels. The feeders alone are several hundred bucks.

Right now I am using the Milwaukee 5625 router (either 3.25 or 3.5hp) but having to make two passes minimum for raised panels. Twice the work and time of having a good shaper but it does a good job.

[Jamie Buxton]

Basically, more horsepower gets you speed, and less power means you work more slowly. With a 1.75 hp router, your feed speed will be lower than with bigger machines, and you may find you want to take multiple passes to cut some profiles. You can build kitchen cabinets with it -- just slower than with a more powerful machine.

[Greg Funk]

If you are doing it for yourself you should probably consider outsourcing the doors. If you get a shaper you can easily spend the same amount again on tooling. Once you add up the cost of a shaper, power feeder and tooling you can buy a lot of premade doors. That said I have a 3HP Delta shaper w/powerfeeder and haven't had any problems raising doors in a single pass. I also used it to make 2000' of trim for our house using insert tooling. If I were to do it over I would use a molder for making the trim.

Greg

[Brian Weick]

That will do the job - but as stated in the earlier thread - several passes need to be made- if you are planning on doing a lot of cabinet work and complex large moldings and feel you will be able to use the shaper more after your project - bite the bullet and get one, you will not regret the purchase!:)
Brian

[J.R. Rutter]

For one kitchen of "made by me" doors, a router table would do the trick. There are tons of door shops around (including mine, but I only deal locally) that can get you a good product ready to finish, or finished.

A shaper with feeder would give you safety, precision, and a nice clean cut. There is a nice looking Bridgewood on the big auction site with sliding table and 4-wheel feeder that would be perfect. It would need a static converter for the feeder though.

[Allen Bookout]

If I were to do it over I would use a molder for making the trim.

Greg

Greg, Just curoius; are you talking about a molder head setup for a tablesaw?

[Jason Boushard]

well guys thaks for the help this would be for production runs of doors and cabinets. I install for a company right now but want to branch out co like to pay me 3-4 weeks late and I am sick of it. I know I can give a better product at the same price so I am going to try to go it on my own. Greg I am curious about the molder you were refering to also. I am going to have to start the shop on a budget. I am doing shadow boxes to get the money for the tools I need. I still need to get a poket hole jig.

[David DeCristoforo]

One thing you don't mention is your budget. There are any number of good machines out there in the 3hp range which, in spite of many opinions to the contrary, will simply blow away any router table setup. In this range, you should look for interchangeable spindles, usually 1/2", 3/4" and a router collet. In addition, many machines in this class also offer a 1" spindle option but this is not a particularly useful size.

Going to a larger machine would get you 5-7HP and a 1.25" spindle and maybe even a tilting spindle but the investment will be much greater and will probably prove to be "overkill" for your use. The smaller machine will mean a couple of passes for "full" RP profiles in hard woods but that's not the end of the world. In fact, it is often much better to run RPs in two passes anyway, the first to "hog off" most of the material and the second to clean up.

As to feeders, it is MMHO that a shaper without a feeder is an incomplete machine. However, the small feeders you can buy for a few hundred bucks are really not substantial enough for a 3hp shaper. Unfortunately, the larger feeders are much more expensive and a small feeder would be better than none at all.

I would not presume to tell you which brand of shaper to buy but I will tell you that if I were buying a new 3HP shaper today it would be a General.

[Jim Nardi]

Magic Moulder works very well on your tablesaw. I bought my shaper off of e-bay for $355 it's a older Poitras that is still made by General today. Considering just the price of tooling there's no such thing as a cheap shaper.

[Jason Boushard]

I left the budget out becuse I dont want to get in a rush for the machine and buy a pos. I will do the raised pannels in several cuts with my router for a while if I have to so I can save up for a good machine. From what I have seen so far I am going to have to wait for a bit before I get one but I am going to need one so I would still like you guys suggestions. I just dont want to spend money on something I am going to replace in 6 months becuse I didn't look before I leaped.

[Dixon Peer]

Buy the biggest, heaviest machine you can afford. The heavier the shaper the better the product it'll put out assuming the spindle is running true with little or no runout. Go for the most horsepower you can get within your budget.

I run curved trim and crown mouldings for our jobs (a lot of fun seeing the profile come out while passing the knives) on a 10 hp SAC. The power feeder is good for straight work and with a special attachment I had made I can feed curved casing past the cutters in the upright position. A shaper is a very versatile machine in talented hands, but be careful, because it'll take a hand off in no time.

[frank shic]

jason, have you considered one of these machines?

http://rbiwoodtools.com/panelmaster2.html

i want one of these machines SO BADLY but unfortunately, they're a little bit hard to conceal from LOML.

[Jim Kountz]

well guys thaks for the help this would be for production runs of doors and cabinets.

Man if you could pull it off a shaper is the tool for the job when you're talking production runs. You wont regret it!

Jim

[Greg Funk]

Greg, Just curoius; are you talking about a molder head setup for a tablesaw?
No, I was thinking more of a Williams & Hussey or clone. At the time I didn't want to spend the money on the W&H but I believe you can get similar performance from a ShopFox for much lower cost.

Greg

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Jason, I have a 3HP General international shaper for home use, no router table.

The shaper in my opinion, is better than the router table, less vibration, cast iron top, induction motor, good fence etc. My shaper has two spindle speeds 8,000/10,000 RPM, which works OK for router bits, however router bits do not have as good cutting geometry as shaper cutters.

Bottom line is the shaper cutters make much faster, smoother cuts.

GI have a promotion in the US now for the shaper I have 40-250M1 for $1,349.

They also have larger shapers 40-450 which is 5 or 7.5HP for $3,490.

A feeder is a must for panel raising as it's too difficult to push the panel at a constant speed and provide sufficient pressure onto the table and into the fence. Not to mention it keeps your fingers out of harms way.

Regards, Rod.

[Dick Sylvan]

As to feeders, it is MMHO that a shaper without a feeder is an incomplete machine. However, the small feeders you can buy for a few hundred bucks are really not substantial enough for a 3hp shaper.

David,
I just took delivery on a Hammer combo which has a 4hp shaper. What would you reccomend as an appropriate power feeder?
Thanks,
Dich

[David DeCristoforo]

"...What would you recommend as an appropriate power feeder..."

Any good quality "full sized" feeder will work. Delta, Felder, PM, whatever. The variables are speed range, number of wheels, HP, etc. I would look for a 1 hp 3 wheel reversible feeder for as good a price as you can find. For a "bit" more dough you can get a 4 wheel feeder which is sweet because you can have 2 wheels on both the infeed and the outfeed side. Also, you need a special bracket to mount a feeder on the Hammer:
http://usa.felder-gruppe.at/?page=shop_node&node=1345
Trust me on this...you gotta have this bracket!. Otherwise you will have to unbolt the feeder base every time you need to clear the machine table.

[Mark Duginske]

One thing you don't mention is your budget. There are any number of good machines out there in the 3hp range which, in spite of many opinions to the contrary, will simply blow away any router table setup. In this range, you should look for interchangeable spindles, usually 1/2", 3/4" and a router collet. In addition, many machines in this class also offer a 1" spindle option but this is not a particularly useful size.

Going to a larger machine would get you 5-7HP and a 1.25" spindle and maybe even a tilting spindle but the investment will be much greater and will probably prove to be "overkill" for your use. The smaller machine will mean a couple of passes for "full" RP profiles in hard woods but that's not the end of the world. In fact, it is often much better to run RPs in two passes anyway, the first to "hog off" most of the material and the second to clean up.

As to feeders, it is MMHO that a shaper without a feeder is an incomplete machine. However, the small feeders you can buy for a few hundred bucks are really not substantial enough for a 3hp shaper. Unfortunately, the larger feeders are much more expensive and a small feeder would be better than none at all.

I would not presume to tell you which brand of shaper to buy but I will tell you that if I were buying a new 3HP shaper today it would be a General.

THIS IS WELL WRITTEN AND TO THE POINT. The shaper is not just a larger router. If one is going to get serious especailly about production, ie, doors chairs, etc. a shaper is a better choice. I was in a store recently and watched a "newby" spend $1,500 on a shiny red router table. That same $1,500 would have bought a shaper with router collets.