HVLP suggestions

[John Davidson]

I was in Alanta this weekend and saw 2 HVLP systems being demoed. The first was an Apollo 800 system and the other a Turbinaire 1235. Both seemed like good systems and both were offering good prices on package deals. But I am not sure which way to go. I have never used a spray system but I think it would be a effective tool to a better qaulity finish. I am looking for help with this, does anyone have experince with ether of these or any other HVLP systems?

[Jason Roehl]

So, which car should I buy? Sorry about the sarcasm, but it's about the same question. In HVLPs, you can get everything from a Yugo that has trouble spraying thinned water to a Rolls-Royce, that will spray just about anything you can put in it, and do it well.

You can get anywhere from a 1- to 4-stage turbine (I've never heard of higher, but they could be out there), you can get systems that use air from the turbine to siphon or pressurize the pot, or you can even get systems that have a small on-board compressor to provide fluid pressure (what we have) while the turbine provides atomizing air.

I think you can get a Harbor Freight special for $59 or so, or you can drop up to $2000 or more on a pro set-up. For $200-$300, you can get a system that would spray stains and light finishes. Our system can just barely spray latex paints ($700 5+ years ago).

Jason
Self-employed Painter

[Phil Phelps]

Do you already own a compressor, John? If you are just beginning to spray finishes, I would go the conversion HVLP route. It operates off a conventional compressor. You can buy, as Jason pointed out, a fine HVLP for $300. It will do a great job. I'm gonna' say it again, it wont' do all that well with latex paint. The latex material must be thinned. You can use the conversion with a cup or pressure pot. But, please don't think any HVLP doesn't have overspray. They do. But not neary as much as a siphon gun. And it will take practice to use one. They lay down three times as much material as a siphon gun. That two cents and a little experience. Good luck. ;)

[Jason Roehl]

I knew Phil would weigh in on this one!! I did forget the overspray issue. In the grand scheme of things (assuming all the machines are set properly for the material being sprayed, etc.) HVLP has the highest transfer efficiency, followed by airless, and bringing up the very rear is conventional spray (air supplied by compressor only).

The conversion spray that Phil mentions is basically a compressor hooked up to an HVLP gun, and that puts it in a very close second to a real HVLP. This is what autobody shops are now required by law to use (instead of the former conventional standard).

Any HVLP setup will create overspray, but it is relatively minimal--a fraction of what conventional throws in the air. You'll still need a respirator (not a dust mask).

Jason

[Paul Dwight]

The first big decision you have to make is whether to go with a turbine system or a conversion gun. Excellent examples of both types are readily available. If you don't already have a good-size compressor, then a turbine system may be more cost-effective. I have a nice turbine system that gives me terrific results -- but if I could do it all over again, I'd go the conversion gun route. Turbines heat the air quite a bit and that's been a problem for me here in hot, dry Arizona. The hot air from the turbine makes the solvents flash off faster and makes it harder to get the finish to flow out. I don't know whether you might have the same problem in Atlanta. The only real disadvantage I know of with a conversion gun is that you have to filter the air to remove oil and water. High quality filter units are not inexpensive. If you're interested in conversion guns, it would be worth your time to check out Jeff Jewitt's website, www.homesteadfinishing.com (no affiliation). If you think a turbine system is the ticket, Lemmer offers a good balance of quality and price IMHO (www.lemmer.com). The Lemmer T-55 is the system I have. If you poke around on the Fine Woodworking site I think you can find an article they did a couple of years ago comparing $500 turbine systems. That might also be worth a read. Good luck! -- Paul

[Jason Roehl]

Paul Dwight,

The simplest solution I know of to your turbine heat problem is this:

1. Double the length of your airhose.

2. Set up a cooler with water and ice in it, then put as much of the hose in there as possible to cool the airflow.

The second one may seem like a lot of trouble, but it's really only a few minutes in the grand scheme of things, and you're trying to do a fine finish anyway, right?

Jason
Self-employed Painter

[Bob Reilly]

The conversion gun on this site is an excellent choice at $129.95
www.gleempaint.com then click on conversion guns

[John Davidson]

I don't have a compresser so I was mostly interested in a turbine system. Both of the systems that I looked at are 3 stage systems and seem like they would be fine for thin finishes but I would like to be able to spray latex as well. Both the sales people said that thinned latex could be sprayed but I wonder how well?

[Bob Reilly]

John ,you can talk to the people at Gleem paint about latex,i'm pretty sure there is a different needle valve you have to purchase,if you need to spray latex and these guy'
s are up front about their products,at least you'd know if it can be sprayed with a HVLP unit.

[Jason Roehl]

Originally posted by John Davidson
I don't have a compresser so I was mostly interested in a turbine system. Both of the systems that I looked at are 3 stage systems and seem like they would be fine for thin finishes but I would like to be able to spray latex as well. Both the sales people said that thinned latex could be sprayed but I wonder how well?

That really depends on how big of an item you are spraying. Thinned latex has a pretty decent open time, but something like a door is hard to spray with HVLP. One thing you can do is to "cross-hatch." What you do is spray horizontally, then turn the gun 90° and spray vertically.

Jason
Self-employed painter

[Phil Phelps]

I have a real problem with latex through a siphon gun. The thinning of the material breaks down the paint. They offer an extender called Floetrol, that helps but, I find I still have to add water. Also, the sheen takes a beating after being thinned and atomized. A gloss isn't as glossy after thinning. And down the line, satin, etc. Sadly, one gun doesn't do it all. I'll bet there are situations when Jason has to resort to the ol' roller and brush. What ever it takes. Remember. The identical paint will appear a different color on different textures.;)

[Jason Roehl]

Originally posted by Phil Phelps
I have a real problem with latex through a siphon gun.

So do I. I much prefer our pressure pot setup when I spray latex through the HVLP (much better control of fluid pressure). I still need to thin it a bit, but not near as much. And, one extra coat usually brings it up to sheen.

Jason

[Phil Phelps]

Originally posted by Jason Roehl
And, one extra coat usually brings it up to sheen.

Jason [/B]

What do you do it you spray and brush the same cabinet? Re: brush the fase frame and spray the doors? Ever have a difference is sheen?

[Jason Roehl]

We've had sheen differences, but I don't recall anytime that another sprayed coat doesn't solve the problem. We do tend to push the limits on mil thickness, though, and lay things flat whenever possible (like cabinet doors).

Jason

[Chris Knight]

I have a Wagner CS9600 - 4 stage turbine and associated gun which I bought in the mistaken belief that more powerful was better. If I could buy again, I'd get the Apollo 800.

My set-up is very powerful and will certainly handle latex but I don't want it for this, I want a nice controllable spray for cabinets, using lacquer - waterborne and nitrocellulose. For this, the unit leaves much to be desired. The gun is not a very good one, control over the air pressure/volume is very coarse and hard to adjust and I end up with too much overspray.

By contrast the Apollo seems well matched to the kind of work I do and the gun seems nicer.

A conversion gun would be fine except my compressor is not where I spray as it gets used for other purposes and the turbine is very portable

Chris

[John Davidson]

Chris -- "My set-up is very powerful and will certainly handle latex but I don't want it for this, I want a nice controllable spray for cabinets, using lacquer - waterborne and nitrocellulose. For this, the unit leaves much to be desired."

Chris, this is what I was looking for since the main reason to purchase the unit is for fine finishing and not latex. I thought that it would be worth moving up to a more powerful unit to able to do latex but did not want to compromise the main objective of spraying lighter materials. I also take it from your post that you have looked at the Apollo units and liked what you saw? I just ordered the 800!!

Thanks
John