Can domino replace a mortiser?

[Jamie Smith]

Hi all-

I am considering getting a festool domino joiner, and have a few questions that I haven't seen asked or answered-

1. Can it cut mortises longer than the widest setting (meaning can you just keep moving it over to make a wider slot, with overlapping passes)?

2. Can it effectively replace a dedicated mortiser?

3. How long do the bits last?

4. Can the bits be sharpened?

I have a dedicated mortiser and leigh d4 that I just don't use all that often, because of how they are situated in the shop, and I am wondering if selling them off and using the funds for a domino would be a good plan.

Thanks...

[Matt Meiser]

I'm not sure if all your questions would be answered here, but you might want to check out this thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=62972). I know Brad has since listed his mortiser for sale and said he was buying a Domino.

[James Phillips]

Hi all-

I am considering getting a festool domino joiner, and have a few questions that I haven't seen asked or answered-

1. Can it cut mortises longer than the widest setting (meaning can you just keep moving it over to make a wider slot, with overlapping passes)?

Probably, although I have not tried it. I would cut them close and then use a chisel

2. Can it effectively replace a dedicated mortiser?

Yes. I stil have both, but rarelyuse the mortiser

3. How long do the bits last?

According to Festool many thousands of moritses. I have not worn out any bits

4. Can the bits be sharpened?

NO

I have a dedicated mortiser and leigh d4 that I just don't use all that often, because of how they are situated in the shop, and I am wondering if selling them off and using the funds for a domino would be a good plan.

Thanks...


Aee text above for answers

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I going to say no. What it can do is give you lots of slots of the sizes specified by the Festool engineers in a brief period of time placed with what most folks (mind you - not all) think is good accuracy.

A slot mortiser or chisel will make you slots whatever size and depth you wish depending on the cutter sizes you have and whether you want to take multiple passes to increase width.

The Domino engineers have not intended to have made up your mind for you what sizes you need for all the joinery you do. Just some of it. As a general proposition - most expensive tool makers simply take it for granted that you will not have any problems purchasing what other expensive equipment a wood worker might desire. So I am guessing they probably don't intend that it make your mortiser obsolete.

[Kim Spence]

1. Yes, it can cut "longer" mortises by overlapping the passes. I had a couple mortises that were just slightly out of alignment and successfully made the mortise just a bit longer, maybe 1/8" or so. I haven't tried significantly lengthening the mortise though.

2. I think that only you can answer whether or not it can replace your dedicated mortiser. The Domino has some limitations.

For example, some styles of furniture such as Mission/Arts & Crafts call for "through" mortises with decorative "pyramid" shaped tennons protruding out the open end. This is not possible to do in the traditional way with a Domino, though you could easily substitute false through tennons but then its no longer truly authentic/traditional, and only you can decide if thats OK with you.

Another example, I made some Mission end/coffee tables that had a bunch of 1/2" spindles on each end that had to be mortised into the upper and lower rails. They were too small to use the domino on so I used traditional mortise/tennons with my dedicated mortiser. I did however use the Domino on all the other joinery on these tables.

3 & 4. I haven't used mine enough to wear out a bit yet, so no opinion here.

[James Phillips]

For example, some styles of furniture such as Mission/Arts & Crafts call for "through" mortises with decorative "pyramid" shaped tennons protruding out the open end. This is not possible to do in the traditional way with a Domino, though you could easily substitute false through tennons but then its no longer truly authentic/traditional, and only you can decide if thats OK with you.


I just did exactly that for some nightstands. No one (other than you guys now) will ever know they are not through mortises...

[James Phillips]

I going to say no. What it can do is give you lots of slots of the sizes specified by the Festool engineers in a brief period of time placed with what most folks (mind you - not all) think is good accuracy.

A slot mortiser or chisel will make you slots whatever size and depth you wish depending on the cutter sizes you have and whether you want to take multiple passes to increase width.

The Domino engineers have not intended to have made up your mind for you what sizes you need for all the joinery you do. Just some of it. As a general proposition - most expensive tool makers simply take it for granted that you will not have any problems purchasing what other expensive equipment a wood worker might desire. So I am guessing they probably don't intend that it make your mortiser obsolete.

Not to start a argument here (especially after the recent EZ vs Festool debacle), but you can widen slots by making multiple passes with the domino just like with a traditional mortiser. You are still limited with chisels for a traditional mortiser. I also think it is much more accurate than a traditional mortiser. What it might no be is more flexible. JMHO

[Alan Tolchinsky]

I don't own a Domino but I understand mostly what it does. I do own a mortiser and I think it has more flexibility. You can do more with it in varying situations but the Domino probably will be faster in use.

[Dave Rudy]

Correction to an earlier post -- you can definitely cut wide mortises by simply moving the Domino and repeating the cut -- several of the Australians have done it extensively, made their own tenons of different sizes, etc.

And yes, the bits can be sharpened, once or twice. Bit cost is sufficiently reasonable that the consensus seems to be why sharpen, just replace, but most people have not come close to cutting enough mortises to face the issue.

As has been said, if you need square, through mortises then the Domino may not be the right answer for you. In any other case, why not try one (you will not regret it, guaranteed) and keep your slot mortiser for a while. See if you miss it. I'm betting no.

[Brad Olson]

I am going through this same decision process right now.

I pretty much decided to get the Domino, now I am just deciding how much damage to make it (i.e. trying to decide if a $500 vacuum is worth it).

I'll give you my perspective on this...

I can hand cut a mortise and tennon joint just as fast as I can use a dedicated mortiser and tennon jig. Why? I don't do production work and all of my cuts are unique to what I am making so I spend a lot of time setting up both the mortiser and tennon jig. While a dedicated mortiser and tennon jig do a beautiful job 95% of the time I ended up just cutting them by hand. I did find that the best way to set the jigs up is to use a machinists surface guage and dial calipers. The problem is that if you less than 4 joints that are the same, this takes a bit of time to do for the number of joints required.

So the reason I am interested in the domino is that it's approach to M&T joints is such that material thickness and width is not a factor. While you are limited to the domino dimensions, you can overcome this by using multiple dominoes



1. Can it cut mortises longer than the widest setting (meaning can you just keep moving it over to make a wider slot, with overlapping passes)?

A: Yes, in fact you can use the machine to make a sliding slot if you want. A plunge router is more appropriate though. There is a pin stop so if you are trying to get a bigger mortise you can just use the pin stop to make an nearby adjacent slot. Watch the video at festoolusa.com and this will make a lot more sense.

2. Can it effectively replace a dedicated mortiser?

Yes, unless you use a dedicated mortiser for Arts and Crafts furniture. Strength is not an issue as it is just like a floating tennon. In fact it looks like using more thinner dominoes is preferable to single big dominoes. For me, since I never work with 3/4" material and the size and widths of my M&T joints vary means that the few times I have used a mortiser, it takes me a while to get it setup. Mine sat idle for 2 years after I first bought it.

3. How long do the bits last?
4. Can the bits be sharpened?

Probably a long time, no that can't be resharpened, but the are about $30 to replace.

Finally, is the machine overpriced? Yes, all festool stuff is. However, your are paying a premium for their tools to be engineered as a system. Like it or not Festool is unique in that everything is designed to work not only extremely well, but to work interchangeably. Because it is good and unique, you have to pay a premium. Whether this premium is worth it to you however, is your decision.

[Steve Rowe]

1. Can it cut mortises longer than the widest setting (meaning can you just keep moving it over to make a wider slot, with overlapping passes)?

YES - As others have already indicated.

2. Can it effectively replace a dedicated mortiser?

YES - since the Domino is itself a dedicated mortiser. Whether it does everything you would want it to is really a question only you can answer.

3. How long do the bits last?

A lot more mortises than I will probably cut. They are carbide tipped which is a lot more than other mortise bits.

4. Can the bits be sharpened?

I have heard they can be sharpened. I suspect if mine ever get dull, I will just hone them with a diamond hone. If it doesn't work, I will replace.

Steve

[Bob Marino]

Jamie,

3. How long do the bits last?

Thousands of cuts in end grain, thousands more in softwood/long grain.

4. Can the bits be sharpened?

Yes, but as Dave stated, at the cost of resharpening, most people will replace rather than resharpen.


Bob

[Gary Keedwell]

This tool seemingly is marketed to those where time is money, or the financially endowed hobbyist.

Not your average hobbyist grade tool and priced accordingly.

Gary K.

[Jamie Smith]

Thank you all for the great comments. I am still on the fence about it (OK, I am not, but SWMBO is) :)

[John McArthur]

2. Can it effectively replace a dedicated mortiser?

For me it cannot. Nor can a dedicated mortiser replace a mortise chisel. As a hobbyist who enjoys woodworking, I ask myself what it is I enjoy about woodworking. I do enjoy cutting joints, and designing them for my specific needs.

[Art Mann]

Just keep in mind that a number of experiments have shown that the loose tenons used by the Domino are no match in strength for a traditional M&T joint. You might want to hang on to your M&T tools just for those applications that require maximum strength. For example, I am about to finish up a curio cabinet where the door is made of fairly narrow stiles and rails and has to support a heavy sheet of glass. I chose M&T joints for this particular application, even though I normally use multiple small round loose tenons per joint (dowels).

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Not to start a argument here (especially after the recent EZ vs Festool debacle), but you can widen slots by making multiple passes with the domino just like with a traditional mortiser.

Then aren't you stuck making your own tenons? If I recall they don't make more than a couple or three thicknesses of domino biscuits.


You are still limited with chisels for a traditional mortiser.

Indeed. I have a shop built slot mortiser and I rather like it a lot. I have lots of options by way of end mills, staggertooth and other router bits etc. I have come to like loose tenons rather a lot.


I also think it is much more accurate than a traditional mortiser. What it might no be is more flexible.

It may - or not be more flexible, My mortiser can do angles and I can control position width and length within a few thousanths of an inch. I have never used a PM or General square chisel type mortiser so I can't say much about them and accuracy. I have seen posts elsewhere where the posters expressed various degrees of dissatisfaction with accuracy.

No tool is going to please everyone.

Except maybe the Winning PowerBall Ticket.

[Tim May]

This tool seemingly is marketed to those where time is money, or the financially endowed hobbyist.

Not your average hobbyist grade tool and priced accordingly.

Gary K.

For the line of tools in general, not necessarily the Domino, I would also add: those who want to try to get many of the benefits of a large woodworking shop without a lot of "footprint."

It's almost a "Neo-Neanderthal" sort of thing, with hand tools augmented with precision electric hand tools. Myself, I currently have just four Festool items: the OF 1400 router, the Trion barrel-handled jigsaw, the Rotex 125 sander, and the CT22 dust collector. I've been very impressed with the quality, the packaging, and the service. (I ordered from Bob Marino and got my deliveries on the fourth day after the order was sent electronically, late Sunday night to Thursday morning. It may help that I live near Santa Cruz, just a few hundred miles up the coast from Goleta/Santa Barbara, where Festool's US site is located.)

I figure the Festools make a nice supplement to some of my hand planes (Lie-Nielsen low-angle jack, scrub plane, block plane, and chisel plane) and other quality gear.

For most sawing I use a DeWalt hypoid (essentially worm-drive) 7.25-inch, left side blade, with a saw guide. Easy to get very accurate cuts. I'm carefully evaluating both the EZ and Festool approaches to guides...not yet sure I need anything more than my home-built saw guides.

My thinking about the "Neo-Neanderthal" thing is that I don't want my entire garage taken over with a large table saw, bandsaw, jointer/planer, spindle sanders, etc. Yeah, if I were making a LOT of stuff, it might make sense. (A couple of friends of mine have their garages completely taken over by large footprint machines. Fine for Normites, not so fine for less frequent users. Just my view, as of this time.)

But for right now I'm enjoying seeing what I can make on a smaller scale. The high quality of the Festools I already have is making me look towards the Domino and maybe the smaller circular saw (TS 55).

--Tim