Table saw recommendation?

[Richard Alexander]

I hate to even ask this but there are just too many choices out there. I've searched this site, Epinions, Amazon, etc but haven't gotten much closer in choosing.

I currently have a Ryobi 3100. I use it for woodworking, mostly small stuff but I would like to start builiding larger chests and such. The Ryobi has been a fine tool but I don't care much for the miter setup and it is not as solid as I would like. I would also prefer a bigger work area.

I would like to spend $600 to $800 but will save up if needed. Most importantly, I don't want to be feeling the need to upgrade again in three or four years.

I've been looking at Lowes, Home Depot, and Woodcraft as well as online. The saw I'm closest to getting is the Jet 708482K. It's bigger and has the cast iron wings and a better miter and fence. I am also considering the Grizzly 1023 but the fact that their are five versions of it within two or three hundred dollars of each other is just confusing and it is a little expensive. Plus I'm personally unfamiliar with the brand.

Finally, I'm also considering the Rigid 10" saw at BORG. My main concern here is the quality. It doesn't seem like much of a step up from the Ryobi but I could be wrong.

I know it's a personal thing but I would like to hear any opinions on this. I've considered holding out for a cabinet saw but it's probably more than I really need.

[Vic Damone]

Richard, What voltage do you have available? Do you have enough space for an outfeed table? Dust collection? Do you need mobility?

If you can wait I think many of the manufactures will be coming out with riving knife equipped saws. Maybe someone else can comment on this.

Vic

[Mike Heidrick]

Richard, look for a used cabinet saw. You can find them for the $600-$800 price range. Check the local craigslist ads and local papers and auctions. Be patient and you will get a dream saw. Your $800 would have bought you a brand new Unisaw with 30" fence shipped 6 months ago from amazon. Keep an eye on them as well - sometimes they go crazy with their sale prices on the big Delta and some of their Powermatic tools. Patience is the key but know when to commit to buy and pull the trigger.

[Clint Winterhalter]

Richard,
Rigid makes nice saws, so does Jet and Grizzly.
The jet your looking at is a contractor style (open cabinet / motor hangs out the back) with a 1.5hp motor. I'm guessing that the Rigid unit is similar. Both saws should run off a standard wall outlet. The trunnion (thing that holds the blade) is mounted to the table on most contractor saws. The Trunnion is mounted to the cabinet on a cabinet saw. Cabinet mounted trunions tend to be more heavy duty than table mounted. The Jet can be set to run on 230 / single phase (The Rigid more than likely can be too). The Grizzly is a 3hp cabinet saw (closed cabinet / motor mounted inside the cabinet) that requires a 20 amp 230 circuit. Depending on what power you have available, it could be a key decision in what saw you get.

As Tim Alan would saw, MORE POWER IS BETTER. Not alway, But more never hurts. Depending on what you plan to do with the saw, 1.5HP should be fine. A ton of Creekers (ME up until recently) did just fine with a 1.5HP contractor saw. A good blade and a decent feed rate will make a world of difference on a contractor / heck any saw for that matter.

Dust collection is generally easier with a cabinet saw. It can be done well on a contractor if you have a good dust collector and buy / build baffles etc.

Once you figure out the POWER and STYLE OF SAW (Cabinet or Contractor) Spend some time looking at the fence. I spent $279 to upgrade the fence on my old $500 Craftsman saw (Ouch).

Other saws worth taking a peek at: Craftsman Saws (Zip Code Saws) built by Orion. You can normally get them for a decent price. They come with a genuine Bies fence. A bunch of Creekers own them and are very happy with them.

The 1023 is a great saw for the price. Your right you can get a bunch of different versions. You can get 54" rails. A router table in the wing etc. Its stuff you can add later if your budget doesn't currently allow. I've got the Shop Fox version of the 1023 and I've been very happy with it.

One other thing to consider. I think your Ryobi 3100 is a right tilt unit. You will find a ton of different opinions regarding which is better. Right Tilt vs. Left tilt. My advice. Get what you learned / are use to. I started with a left tilt and stuck with it when I upgraded. My brain can't deal with change sometimes!

Good luck!
Let us know what you end up with!

Clint

[Dan Drager]

http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0444Z

I LOVE mine. I check it regularly, but it hasn't needed one adjustment since the day I set it up. Run it with a WWII and there is nothing it cannot cut safely and cleanly.

[Joe Jensen]

I'll offer a different idea. Just to level set, I started in my dad's shop with a 1940s Sear contractors saw. My first saw was a Unisaw, then a PM66, and now a SawStop. Clearly I'm a cabinet saw guy. Having said that, I'm not sure how much you gain by upgrading from your Ryobi to something in the $600-800 range unless you find a good used Unisaw or Jet cabinet saw.

Are you looking for more power for ripping solid woods, or someting to better process panels?

I have a SawStop now which I love. I also recently bought a Festool TS75 and guide rail to break down sheet goods. Getting a good circular saw and guide rail might be an alternative and then keep your current saw?

My first choice, a good used Unisaw or equivalent. Second choice a guided cicular saw setup. Far distant last choice would be a new $600-800 saw..joe

[scott spencer]

A jump to a full blown 3hp cabinet saw offers the biggest step up and the most advantages in performance and function. The downside is the upfront expense and the requirement of 220v. I'd encourage you to take that step if those two obstacles can be overcome.

If not, then a hybrid is a logical choice...they offer many of the same advantages of a cabinet saw, but will run on a standard 110v circuit. There's really no downside compared to a traditional contractor saw with the motor hanging out the back, and several advantages are associated with not having an external motor...smaller footprint, better DC, shorter drive belt, more mass, no lifting hazard from the motor. There even a couple that have cabinet mounted trunnions for easy alignment (Steel City and the Orion made Craftsman hybrids). There are models from Jet (http://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/jetproshopsawrvu.html), Grizzly, Delta, GI, Craftsman, Shop Fox, Craftsman (http://www.epinions.com/content_184778395268), Steel City, DeWalt, Hitachi, Sunhill, and we're likely to see many more in the future as the outboard motor becomes obsolete.

[Jim Podsedly]

http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0444Z

I LOVE mine. I check it regularly, but it hasn't needed one adjustment since the day I set it up. Run it with a WWII and there is nothing it cannot cut safely and cleanly.


I second the Grizzly G0444Z. I have had mine over two years with no issues at all. Knock on hardwood! :D :D

[Bill White]

Not to hijack, but what are you and Dan doing about dust collection on the Griz.? I just got mine and am concerned about correct baffles as well as the splitter/guard issue.
Any thoughts here?
Thanks,
Bill

[Chuck Lenz]

Baffles ? Splitter guard issue ? I'm lost.

[Art Mann]

Finally, I'm also considering the Rigid 10" saw at BORG. My main concern here is the quality. It doesn't seem like much of a step up from the Ryobi but I could be wrong.

I have owned the Ridgid 3650 contractor saw and I have used a Ryobi that belongs to a woodworking buddy. I have enough experience with each to offer a realistic comparison. Let me assure you that the Ridgid is a HUGE upgrade to the Ryobi by every measure I can think of. It is a fine contractor saw that really has no quality issues. Having said that, if I were you, I would hold out for a hybrid saw such as the Craftsman or almost identical Steel City or a full 3 HP cabinet saw. I have two issues with the Ridgid 3650. (1) the dust collection is fair to poor. The little 2 1/2 inch port on the saw shroud is not adequate and only catches maybe half the sawdust with a good shop vac when used heavily. (2) The 1.5 HP motor is adequate, but just barely so. I have not run into a job the 3650 wouldn't do with a good thin kerf blade, but I would like to have more power. The motor sticking out the back is awkward to many people but my shop is large enough that it hasn't been a problem.

[Chuck Lenz]

In defense of Contractors saws. I don't get some of the gripes that the motor hanging out the back gets in the way. Atleast 90% of the time I have some kind of board support like a roller stand behind the saw. Good dust collection can be a challenge, but I've got that solved.

[Bill White]

Chuck, my question was about the baffles you mentioned in you email about dust collection. Rather than starve the dust collector, you installed a "baffle" behind the saw blade.
The splitter issue is in regard to my wish to find better kick-back protection.
Thanks,
Bill

[Randal Stevenson]

I have owned the Ridgid 3650 contractor saw and I have used a Ryobi that belongs to a woodworking buddy. I have enough experience with each to offer a realistic comparison. Let me assure you that the Ridgid is a HUGE upgrade to the Ryobi by every measure I can think of. It is a fine contractor saw that really has no quality issues. Having said that, if I were you, I would hold out for a hybrid saw such as the Craftsman or almost identical Steel City or a full 3 HP cabinet saw. I have two issues with the Ridgid 3650. (1) the dust collection is fair to poor. The little 2 1/2 inch port on the saw shroud is not adequate and only catches maybe half the sawdust with a good shop vac when used heavily. (2) The 1.5 HP motor is adequate, but just barely so. I have not run into a job the 3650 wouldn't do with a good thin kerf blade, but I would like to have more power. The motor sticking out the back is awkward to many people but my shop is large enough that it hasn't been a problem.


Which Ryobi did he have?

The BT3xxx series is vastly superior to their homeowner BT(15/20) series.
To the original poster

Like others have said elsewhere here, How much do you do at a 90% angle to the table, verse how much do you do at other angles? This could help you determine a direction (riving knife verse splitter).
Your already using what became a hybrid (riving knife, dust collection) with a sliding table, I would then lean (if your comfortable with it) toward a hybrid.
You say bigger projects, does this mean more sheet good? If so, I to would recommend a Guided circular saw system, then keep your current saw until your used to having both. (stashing money and keeping an eye on used) You may find someone retiring and getting rid of their cabinet saw, or you may go with just the guided saw setup. (depends on your comfort and needs)

[scott spencer]

In defense of Contractors saws. I don't get some of the gripes that the motor hanging out the back gets in the way. Atleast 90% of the time I have some kind of board support like a roller stand behind the saw. Good dust collection can be a challenge, but I've got that solved.

The hybrids are essentially a more modern solution that has addressed many of the common issues of a contractor saw. I can't speak for others Chuck, but my basic tendency to suggest a hybrid over a contractor saw design stems from the fact that the outboard motor offers no advantage over an enclosed motor unless you need to remove it often, but it does have several disadvantages. I see the contractor saw as an outdated and soon to be obsolete design. Whereas the hybrid design essentially offers no significant downside. As you've pointed out, many of those disadvantages can be successfully worked around to some degree, with some effort. But even with my contractor saw enclosed for dust collection, outfitted with PALS, and with an outfeed table installed, it was still capable of lifting up my workbench when beveled and knocking the alignment out of whack....a non-issue for an enclosed motor. A shorter drive belt is another advantage of the hybrid. Also, many hybrids pack some extra mass that comes in handy too.

The hybrid is basically a better mousetrap IMHO...I see the hybrid vs contractor saw debate as similar to fuel injectors vs carburators, riving knife vs splitter, or power steering vs manual, etc... for most of us the newer technology is simply a more elegant solution.

Contractor saws are very capable of the task at hand, but for a new purchase, rarely would I choose a contractor saw over a hybrid design without some justification such as a big price difference, feature difference, much longer warranty, availability, dealer support, etc.

[Art Mann]

Which Ryobi did he have?

I can't remember whether it was the BT3000 or BT3100, but it was one of those.

[Richard Alexander]

Wow. I appreciate all the great replies. This was my first post to this forum and I can't imagine a better welcome.

The main reason I want to upgrade from the Ryobi is the miter gauge. I would like to upgrade it but the Ryobi doesn't have the slots/grooves for the miter. I could put it in between the table pieces I guess but that doesn't seem very precise. The table is also a little small. Also, while working on a chest (dragon chest from scrollsaw magazine), I'm having trouble getting good miter cuts. I was going to make a jig but not having slots/grooves is an issue here too, at least in my mind. Keep in mind, I'm fairly new to woodworking.

Powerwise, the Ryobi has done fine for me. I don't have a 230 power outlet but am willing to get one installed. My workspace is half of a two car garage, and beginning to squeeze into the second half, so far SWMBO hasn't objected... so far. I think I have room for the outfeed table. More workspace is always a plus. Mobility is not an issue since I don't take it out of the garage.

I like the Craig's List suggestion. Funny enough, I saw a Delta Unisaw with a fence and extras for $850 earlier this week.... He sold it as I was heading over to check it out. Having said that, it was ten years old and made me nervous, probably unneccessarily but that's how it is for used stuff.

I'm suprised to hear all the Craftsman recommendations. I was under the impression that they have gone down hill over the last few years and should be avoided. Maybe that was just with scroll saws? Steel City is a name I hadn't heard until browsing this group.

I don't expect to be cutting many sheet goods though I have been cutting baltic birch sheets down for my scroll saw projects. My main focus so far has been small boxes. I'm trying to work up my skill and nerve to make an heirloom quality blanket chest.

I have started doing some angle cuts which brings me back to the miter gauge issues. Next I have to look up what a riving knife is versus a splitter. I thought of them as being the same thing (the piece that keeps the wood from binding the saw blade)

One thing I know for sure, I've been playing with wood long enough to know that I'll be doing this for many, many years. I am most definitely hooked. Maybe that's reason enough to save up for a cabinet saw. After getting all this great input, I'm leaning heavily toward saving up for one, maybe the Grizzly 1023. I'll also keep an eye on Craig's List and the classifieds though I don't know how long I'll be able to keep this bug at bay.

After reading these replies, I feel a lot better about my search and far less overwhelmed. Thanks.

[Chris Barnett]

Scott, mind identifying the three saws shown in your posted pictures?

[Chuck Lenz]

Richard, If your looking for better cross cuts and miter cuts, a compound miter saw is the only way to go. Save the tablesaw for ripping and dado cuts, this is ONLY MY OPINION. I'm sure someone will try to bash my way of doing things in short order.

[Chuck Lenz]

The hybrids are essentially a more modern solution that has addressed many of the common issues of a contractor saw. I can't speak for others Chuck, but my basic tendency to suggest a hybrid over a contractor saw design stems from the fact that the outboard motor offers no advantage over an enclosed motor unless you need to remove it often, but it does have several disadvantages. I see the contractor saw as an outdated and soon to be obsolete design. Whereas the hybrid design essentially offers no significant downside. As you've pointed out, many of those disadvantages can be successfully worked around to some degree, with some effort. But even with my contractor saw enclosed for dust collection, outfitted with PALS, and with an outfeed table installed, it was still capable of lifting up my workbench when beveled and knocking the alignment out of whack....a non-issue for an enclosed motor. A shorter drive belt is another advantage of the hybrid. Also, many hybrids pack some extra mass that comes in handy too.

The hybrid is basically a better mousetrap IMHO...I see the hybrid vs contractor saw debate as similar to fuel injectors vs carburators, riving knife vs splitter, or power steering vs manual, etc... for most of us the newer technology is simply a more elegant solution.

Contractor saws are very capable of the task at hand, but for a new purchase, rarely would I choose a contractor saw over a hybrid design without some justification such as a big price difference, feature difference, much longer warranty, availability, dealer support, etc.
Scott, in most instances your talking about a considerable price difference between a Contractors saw and a hybrid, almost double the price. The only way I'd sell my contractors saw is if I was going fulltime with woodworking, then it would be a Unisaw. Theres no reason in my opinion to spend a bunch of money on a saw when it mostly sees hobby work and rarely a custom job for anyone. But then again if I made a better income than what I'm doing now then I'm sure I'd want to keep up with the good ol boys and buy a Hybrid or a Unisaw just to say I have one, not that I need one.

[scott spencer]

Scott, mind identifying the three saws shown in your posted pictures?

Not at all...should have labeled them in the first place! (sorry I can't modify that post now...)
...Grizzly G0478 hybrid, Craftsman 22124, and the Jet ProShop 708482k.

[scott spencer]

Scott, in most instances your talking about a considerable price difference between a Contractors saw and a hybrid, almost double the price. The only way I'd sell my contractors saw is if I was going fulltime with woodworking, then it would be a Unisaw. Theres no reason in my opinion to spend a bunch of money on a saw when it mostly sees hobby work and rarely a custom job for anyone. But then again if I made a better income than what I'm doing now then I'm sure I'd want to keep up with the good ol boys and buy a Hybrid or a Unisaw just to say I have one.

Hi Chuck - The hi-end hybrids can run double the price of a basic contractor saw, but highend contractor saws can run in the same range. Many models are often available in the $400-$500 range. The Jet 708100 goes on sale frequently for $399 and is regularly $499, the Hitachi C10FL is regularly $499..goes on sale for $420-$450 periodically, the Craftsman 22104 (if still available) goes on sale near $300, the 22114 goes below $600 often ...even some of the higher end models are in his price range... the 22124 was available for $720 as recently as last Sunday night for a 12 hour window, the Griz is as low as $695 if you can pick it up locally, and is still within his budget after s/h. The Deltas fall in his range often, and sometimes incentives from Steel City put them in reach. That Jet model has been on sale at Woodcraft in the $600 range recently.

Lots of hybrid choices exist at common prices for contractor saws. I'm not suggesting that contractor saw owners should sell and switch to hybrids, but when contemplating a new saw, the hybrids offer some design advantages and are a logical consideration IMHO.

[Chuck Lenz]

Yeah Scott, it's a tough decision. When I bought my Delta 34-445X Contractors saw in 1995 I got the 30" Unifence, a full sized Delta mobile base, and leg set. I made my own extension table board from 3/16" sheet steel. That saw package cost me $800 plus tax. I guess I could of bought a hybrid if they had them at the time for a little more money, but I would of had to buy the full size mobile base yet. You know how it goes, stuff starts snow balling. http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c89/Woodchuck_/100_0068.jpg

[Don Bullock]

Wow. I appreciate all the great replies. This was my first post to this forum and I can't imagine a better welcome.

Richard, you'll find that the people here are very helpful. Welcome to the Creek.


The main reason I want to upgrade from the Ryobi is the miter gauge. I would like to upgrade it but the Ryobi doesn't have the slots/grooves for the miter. I could put it in between the table pieces I guess but that doesn't seem very precise. The table is also a little small. Also, while working on a chest (dragon chest from scrollsaw magazine), I'm having trouble getting good miter cuts. I was going to make a jig but not having slots/grooves is an issue here too, at least in my mind. Keep in mind, I'm fairly new to woodworking.

It sounds like you do need a different saw.


Powerwise, the Ryobi has done fine for me. I don't have a 230 power outlet but am willing to get one installed. My workspace is half of a two car garage, and beginning to squeeze into the second half, so far SWMBO hasn't objected... so far. I think I have room for the outfeed table. More workspace is always a plus. Mobility is not an issue since I don't take it out of the garage.

Please understand that installing a 220 power line can be expensive. You'll need to add that cost to the cost of the saw.


I like the Craig's List suggestion. Funny enough, I saw a Delta Unisaw with a fence and extras for $850 earlier this week.... He sold it as I was heading over to check it out. Having said that, it was ten years old and made me nervous, probably unneccessarily but that's how it is for used stuff.

Some love to buy used equipment and are willing to fix or modify what they buy. Others, like me, aren't comfortable with that. You need to go with what you're comfortable with.


I'm suprised to hear all the Craftsman recommendations. I was under the impression that they have gone down hill over the last few years and should be avoided. Maybe that was just with scroll saws? Steel City is a name I hadn't heard until browsing this group.

Several of the Craftsman table saws are well liked by those who have them. As mentioned by one poster, they are built by the same company that is making the new Steel City table saws. I have no idea, however, if the quality is the same. I have a Craftsman 14' band saw and find it to be very good. Again, it all goes back to what you "need" to do the work you want the saw for.


I don't expect to be cutting many sheet goods though I have been cutting baltic birch sheets down for my scroll saw projects. My main focus so far has been small boxes. I'm trying to work up my skill and nerve to make an heirloom quality blanket chest.

That's a great goal. I wish you the best as you gain the skills to reach it.


I have started doing some angle cuts which brings me back to the miter gauge issues. Next I have to look up what a riving knife is versus a splitter. I thought of them as being the same thing (the piece that keeps the wood from binding the saw blade)

Yes, a splitter and a riving knife have the same function. You are correct that there is a difference between a riving knife and a splitter. Splitters are always 90degrees to the table top. They must be removed to do ant angle cuts. The riving knife is attached to the trunion (the part of the saw that holds the arbor for the blade) so it can be tilted with the blade. In my opinion the riving knife is a very important "safety feature" that needs to be considered when buying a new saw.

As someone else has already suggested, a compound miter saw is excellent for cutting angles as well as crosscuts.


One thing I know for sure, I've been playing with wood long enough to know that I'll be doing this for many, many years. I am most definitely hooked. Maybe that's reason enough to save up for a cabinet saw. After getting all this great input, I'm leaning heavily toward saving up for one, maybe the Grizzly 1023. I'll also keep an eye on Craig's List and the classifieds though I don't know how long I'll be able to keep this bug at bay.

Welcome to the hobby. May you have many years of enjoyment. As the LOML said the other day, "there's no end to the tools you "need.";) Remember she's toe one who insisted that I buy a SawStop.


After reading these replies, I feel a lot better about my search and far less overwhelmed. Thanks.

As I said, the people here are helpful. As you get more comfortable using these forums you might want to do some searches. There is a vast amount of information already stored here. Again, welcome to Sawmill Creek.

[Richard Alexander]

My Ryobi has a riving knife. I can definitely see the advantage to it. One less step in setting up for miters and of course the safety factor.

Thanks for the nice reply. This group has given me a some great information to chew on.

[Grant Vanbokklen]

The hybrids are essentially a more modern solution that has addressed many of the common issues of a contractor saw. I can't speak for others Chuck, but my basic tendency to suggest a hybrid over a contractor saw design stems from the fact that the outboard motor offers no advantage over an enclosed motor unless you need to remove it often, but it does have several disadvantages. I see the contractor saw as an outdated and soon to be obsolete design. Whereas the hybrid design essentially offers no significant downside. As you've pointed out, many of those disadvantages can be successfully worked around to some degree, with some effort. But even with my contractor saw enclosed for dust collection, outfitted with PALS, and with an outfeed table installed, it was still capable of lifting up my workbench when beveled and knocking the alignment out of whack....a non-issue for an enclosed motor. A shorter drive belt is another advantage of the hybrid. Also, many hybrids pack some extra mass that comes in handy too.

The hybrid is basically a better mousetrap IMHO...I see the hybrid vs contractor saw debate as similar to fuel injectors vs carburators, riving knife vs splitter, or power steering vs manual, etc... for most of us the newer technology is simply a more elegant solution.

Contractor saws are very capable of the task at hand, but for a new purchase, rarely would I choose a contractor saw over a hybrid design without some justification such as a big price difference, feature difference, much longer warranty, availability, dealer support, etc.

Scott this is an excellent response to the debate. I've got a Craftman US made contractors saw at home since the early 90s, but have been using a newer Delta 36-717 Hybrid at work for the last 6mos, before that, 2yrs at this job, we had a Delta contractors saw (stock junk fence). I've had experience with a few Unisaws over the years and other Delta and Craftman contractor saws.

All I can say is that I'm extremely impressed with the Delta 36-717 Hybrid that I'm wanting a SMOOTH cutting saw like this at home now. And Dust Collection is a prime concern for me these days, when I was younger I was more ignorant to the dust issue. But I do wonder about the durabilty of these newer saws. Is the metal and motor really as good, will they stay true and cut smooth for years and years like a Unisaw? And even though I do have an unsued 240vac outlet in my garage, I have a handful of 120vac's that are much closer to where I'd be plugging in.

Are the Trunnions different between the Craftsman 22124 and the Delta 36-717? Sorry I don't have time to decipher all that I read here. But I'm a bit confused on this point.

[David Micalizzi]

Look for a used cabinet saw if new is out of your range. If you stay with woodworking you will probably end up/want one eventually. It's all the intermediete tools we buy to get to where we want/need to be that cost the most. I'm selling mine right now to move up to a slider (check the classifieds). Don't be afraid to make a low offer on something you find or like, you never know. The worst that could happen is the seller could say no. I always preface such an offer with the fact that I'm just a hobbiest. It seems to ease the tension. I wish you the best with you decision.

[Jason White]

The RIDGID TS3650 tablesaw at Home Depot is a wonderful machine and has received excellent reviews in the magazines. The quality is top notch and you can't beat the price. The stock fence is among the best and it takes a full dado stack. I don't use the built-in mobile base on mine, but others seem to love it.

I'm not trying to sell you on the RIDGID, but don't worry about any quality problems because there really aren't any. It's a great saw for a great price!

JW


I hate to even ask this but there are just too many choices out there. I've searched this site, Epinions, Amazon, etc but haven't gotten much closer in choosing.

I currently have a Ryobi 3100. I use it for woodworking, mostly small stuff but I would like to start builiding larger chests and such. The Ryobi has been a fine tool but I don't care much for the miter setup and it is not as solid as I would like. I would also prefer a bigger work area.

I would like to spend $600 to $800 but will save up if needed. Most importantly, I don't want to be feeling the need to upgrade again in three or four years.

I've been looking at Lowes, Home Depot, and Woodcraft as well as online. The saw I'm closest to getting is the Jet 708482K. It's bigger and has the cast iron wings and a better miter and fence. I am also considering the Grizzly 1023 but the fact that their are five versions of it within two or three hundred dollars of each other is just confusing and it is a little expensive. Plus I'm personally unfamiliar with the brand.

Finally, I'm also considering the Rigid 10" saw at BORG. My main concern here is the quality. It doesn't seem like much of a step up from the Ryobi but I could be wrong.

I know it's a personal thing but I would like to hear any opinions on this. I've considered holding out for a cabinet saw but it's probably more than I really need.

[Curt Harms]

I hate to even ask this but there are just too many choices out there. I've searched this site, Epinions, Amazon, etc but haven't gotten much closer in choosing.
<snip>

I know it's a personal thing but I would like to hear any opinions on this. I've considered holding out for a cabinet saw but it's probably more than I really need.

If You peruse these forums, You'll see quite a few people upgrading from the contractor-style saws to hybrids (120 volt friendly) or 3 h.p. cabinet saws. I don't believe I've ever heard of anyone changing from a cabinet saw to a contractor's saw. If You think a hybrid saw would do what You want, keep an eye on Sears. Their "zip code" saws get pretty good reviews and are priced well on either clearance or sale.

HTH

Curt

[Chuck Lenz]

If You peruse these forums, You'll see quite a few people upgrading from the contractor-style saws to hybrids (120 volt friendly) or 3 h.p. cabinet saws. I don't believe I've ever heard of anyone changing from a cabinet saw to a contractor's saw. If You think a hybrid saw would do what You want, keep an eye on Sears. Their "zip code" saws get pretty good reviews and are priced well on either clearance or sale.

HTH

Curt
You may not of heard of anyone changing from a cabinet saw to a contractors saw, but I sure see alot of people selling cabinet saws because they say they are moveing.

[Jeff A. Smith]

I had a BT-3000 for a long time. I upgraded to a Unisaw... but I missed some features of the BT-3000. It's a little finicky... okay... maybe more than a little. But just check it each time you move the table, and it's good. A real smooth cutter. I wish I'd kept it in addition to the Unisaw. Later, I upgraded to a slider, but I have fond memories of my BT-3000.

So... my advice is this... Ask yourself this question: What is it I'm trying to do that my BT-3000 is unable to accomplish? Maybe you're sawing 4/4 oak all day and you really need the additional power. But outside of power alone, I'm not sure any contractor saw is a significant upgrade, and many come with their own caveats/drawbacks. Remember, I said, "outside of power." Yes, the larger motors are nice.

Sometimes an outgrown saw is just in need of a new blade and a little tuneup.

I'm just trying to give you something to consider... Hope it helps...

Jeff

[Dave Dionne]

Hi
I also had a RYOBI BT3000 and was a great starter saw for me but I wanted to get into doing more cabinet work and larger projects. I went for the JET exacta cabinet saw and love it (on a side note you will be amazed at how quite it is compared to your Ryobi)

To make the purchase easier strip your Ryobi down and sell the parts seperatly on Ebay, I paid $280 for the saw and stripped her down and sold it for over $450.00

Good luck

Dave

[jeff guenther]

Richard,

I purchased a Grizzly 1023z a couple of years ago new. I run a 2 man top end cabint and millwork shop. It has run thousands of board feet of lumber through it. Just finished up the last millwork job which had 2300 bf of hickory. The only time the saw grunted was when we were cutting 8/4 hickory for some 1 3/4" interior doors. If you can wait and have room for cabinet saw, get one from Grizzly. You might also look to Grizzly's tent sale. I've picked a shop full of tools from their tent sales, if you don't mind scratches and dents. Also spend the money and get Forrest sawblade for you saw.I installed one new when I got the saw and it hasen't been off since. My saw is used daily and I have no coplaints. Hope you find this useful.

Jeff

[Dave MacArthur]

I'll second Joe Jensen-- for $600-800, you can pick up a used cabinet saw on CL (or almost a new Griz 1023 which is a good saw), which would be a much better upgrade than any thing you'd purchase new at the HD or Lowes. I used a Delta contractor's saw for 10 years which performed well for me, and I expect to sell it on CL for around $500-$700, based on others I see there fully loaded up--just pointing out that you can get a quite nice setup for $500 on Craig's List

[John Stevens]

[snip] I'm not sure how much you gain by upgrading from your Ryobi to something in the $600-800 range unless you find a good used Unisaw or Jet cabinet saw.

Getting a good circular saw and guide rail might be an alternative and then keep your current saw?

My first choice, a good used Unisaw or equivalent. Second choice a guided cicular saw setup. Far distant last choice would be a new $600-800 saw..joe

I agree with Joe. I started out with a Ryobi BT3100 and then bought a high-end guided circular saw system (not saying which one in order to avoid starting an F vs E war). Given the accuracy of the GCSS and its advantages in terms of dust collection and safety, I now only use the BT3100 for ripping and cutting coves. A top-quality guided circular saw system may well cost $800 or more, but in my limited experience it was a better value than upgrading to a TS in the range of $600 to $800. When I upgrade to a better TS, safety and dust collection will be among my top priorities, and I'll be prepared to spend well over $1,000 to get it. But thanks to my GCSS, I'm in no hurry to replace the BT3100. Next purchases will be a bandsaw and a bigger planer with a Shelix head.

Regards,

John

[Art Mann]

I'll second Joe Jensen-- for $600-800, you can pick up a used cabinet saw on CL (or almost a new Griz 1023 which is a good saw), which would be a much better upgrade than any thing you'd purchase new at the HD or Lowes. I used a Delta contractor's saw for 10 years which performed well for me, and I expect to sell it on CL for around $500-$700, based on others I see there fully loaded up--just pointing out that you can get a quite nice setup for $500 on Craig's List

You might be able to pick up a used cabinet saw in Phoenix, but that is absolutely untrue where I live. I have looked for a cabinet saw for over a year and a half on Craigslist in the closest 4 cities to where I live (125 mile radius) and in that time, I have only seen two for sale. One sold within one day and the other guy must have thought his saw had a solid gold top. I also looked in the local newspapers and the free "for sale by onwer" type papers. In many geographic areas the "buy used" advice is worthless.

[Dave MacArthur]

Wow, that's too bad Art... it is nice to have a good used market locally. I just finished CL view for today, and there are 2 cabinet saws new today since yesterday:
10" General Cabinet saw w/Biesemeyer 43" - 2HP - $500
grizzly 5 hp single phase cabinet saw with router extension only 1 year old $850.00 Jet floor stand drill press like new with mortising attachment $250.00 Powermatic contractor table saw 2 years old $300.00. Delta 14" band saw one year old $300.00

Not sure where you or Rich are located though (come on, update that profile ;) ).

[Joe Jensen]

Wow, that's too bad Art... it is nice to have a good used market locally. I just finished CL view for today, and there are 2 cabinet saws new today since yesterday:
10" General Cabinet saw w/Biesemeyer 43" - 2HP - $500
grizzly 5 hp single phase cabinet saw with router extension only 1 year old $850.00 Jet floor stand drill press like new with mortising attachment $250.00 Powermatic contractor table saw 2 years old $300.00. Delta 14" band saw one year old $300.00

Not sure where you or Rich are located though (come on, update that profile ;) ).

Funny, I was just posting the exact same thing for Phx when my laptop crashed. I had three cabinet sawes on the list from today's Craig's list posts in Phx...joe

[Mike Peace]

I really like my Ridgid 3650. Had it for two years. Well made with a great mobile base. Fence is deadon accurate. I looked at a lot of Contracter saws and feel like this saw was a great value with the convenience of picking one up at a nearby HD. That said, the dust collection is a little weak and there is always sawdust under the saw. Find out more than you ever wanted to about this saw at www. ridgidforum.com.