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James & Zelma Litzmann
08-20-2007, 2:06 PM
Hey everyone I have a question. Do you have a filter system on your engraver? The building inspector came by this morning, he ask if we engraved on things that were hazardous, like silver, etc? Not thinking about mirrors, we said no. Now we realize we do engrave on mirrors and we want to be above board with all inspections. We are not even sure if we need a filtering system or not, any suggestions, I'm guessing if "he" says we do . . . then we do?

If any of you have a filtering system can you share on how you built it, cost, etc?

Thank you for any help you can give.

God Bless,
Zelma (Psalm 18:2)

Joe Pelonio
08-20-2007, 2:59 PM
Are you doing a remodel or something, to cause a building inspector to come by?

I only had the fire department safety inspections and they never questioned the laser. In fact they asked for a demo to see it work. So far since I moved home no inspections (knock on wood).

I can't speak about glass mirror, but when I checked the MSDS for the acrylic mirror which I use a lot, it was no more dangerous than cutting plain acrylic.

Dave Jones
08-20-2007, 4:40 PM
Technically, engraving any kind of plastic puts out poisonous fumes. People in industrial parks or the countryside that vent directly outside are just relying on the fact that the air dissipates and dilutes quickly. If you are in a closed space or in a tight area with other tenants near your exhaust, then you may have a problem.

I am in a closed space with only a small vent fan. Not enough to exhaust directly, and too close to other tenant's open windows (10 feet). So I have a filtering system. It was expensive and a bit of a pain to maintain.

I got a 2 part system that cost about $4200 plus a couple hundred dollars shipping. It is an electrostatic plate system (catches most of the smoke) followed by a blower with a dust/particle, HEPA, and large charcoal filter. I got both parts through Electrocorp.

http://www.odorcontroller.com/laser-air.html

The ES1400 (white box in the left picture) is the electrostatic plate unit that catches most of the smoke. I got the larger of the two blue units (the one in the right photo) which has a much larger HEPA and charcoal filter in it.

You don't need the electrostatic plate unit, but it extends the life of the other filters by a huge amount. It has no parts that need to be replaced, but you do need to pull the plates out and soak them and wipe them off with Q-tips on a regular basis. Without it the smoke from plastic and wood would clog the HEPA filter very quickly, and they're expensive to replace. The charcoal would also have to be replaced more often. And it's also expensive.

James & Zelma Litzmann
08-21-2007, 12:51 PM
Are we remodeling . . . trying. Before we can actually open the Coffee Shop, we have to build out a public restroom and kitchen. Right now we are only doing the electrical part, we are still waiting for a plumber, the ones we gotten bids from so far . . . we can't afford. So we are taking this one step at time. We never expected the building inspector to ask about hazardous material?:eek: We really didn't need that, I expect we haven't heard the last from him on that issue. I know, I know, "Oh yea of little faith."

Thanks for all the replies, if anyone knows of a less expensive way to fix this, any information would be greatly appreciate.

God Bless,
Zelma (Psalm 18:2)

Joe Pelonio
08-21-2007, 2:48 PM
That is an odd thing for a building inspector to be concerned about. Why should he care what the space is used for? Seems like if anything, a health inspector would want to look into that since you are selling food/drink.

If you are venting to the outside without filtration and the fumes are drawn away from any area where breathing is going on ot shouldn't be a problem any more than an auto repair sending their car exhaust outside via tubing, or a BBQ joint sending up smoke. Even another shop that used to use a laser for rubber stamps only operated without filtration. They did have to run the vent through their upstairs neighbor and out the roof though.

If you do buy one of the expensive air scrubbers made for lasers, the (cleaned) exhaust stays inside.

Who knows what they will require, but maybe build a box for something like these to go into the exhaust duct? (toward the bottom)

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/productIndex.shtml?originalValue=air+cleaner&L2=Duct-Mount&operator=prodIndexRefinementSearch&L1=Air+Cleaners%2C

James & Zelma Litzmann
08-21-2007, 3:21 PM
I agree Joe, it caught me totally off guard, maybe it shouldn't have but it did.

I will look at these and the ones Dave sent us. I think I will contact our distributor or GCC, they should know the rules of these things . . . don't you think?

Take care,
Zelma (Psalm 18:2)

Marc Myer
08-21-2007, 4:20 PM
If the building inspector is only concerned about 'hazardous material,' you're fine. Even the smellier stuff we laser-ers use isn't hazardous per se given the way we do it. If he isn't concerned about ambient odors, you shouldn't be either. We assume you'll be venting outside somehow, hopefully not next to the food area :). I'd relax unless it becomes an issue.

James & Zelma Litzmann
08-22-2007, 9:38 AM
We are venting outside. Is it harzardous if you engrave on the back of mirrors? I may be fretting over nothing.

Mike Null
08-22-2007, 10:51 AM
Zelma

I doubt that there would be any problem if you engraved mirrors all day every day.

Brian Robison
08-22-2007, 11:19 AM
Glass mirrors or Acrylic?

James & Zelma Litzmann
08-22-2007, 2:08 PM
The mirrors are glass. We've never done acrylic mirrors, although that is something I want to try, just to see if it turns our as good as glass.

Tom Bull
08-25-2007, 1:21 AM
Little late, but this may be helpful. Mirrored glass is several layers: Glass, silvering (which in the process we use actually contains silver) usually a form of aluminum, a copper coating for protection of the silvering, and a paint coating. There are a lot of variables, but none of these materials are patricularly hazardous when burned or etched away. I would not breathe anything that is concentrated. Even house dust can be a lung irritant. Hope this helps some.

Bill Cunningham
08-26-2007, 10:02 PM
Little late, but this may be helpful. Mirrored glass is several layers: Glass, silvering (which in the process we use actually contains silver) usually a form of aluminum, a copper coating for protection of the silvering, and a paint coating. There are a lot of variables, but none of these materials are patricularly hazardous when burned or etched away. I would not breathe anything that is concentrated. Even house dust can be a lung irritant. Hope this helps some.


I don't know about hazardous, but that explanation of mirror coatings certainly goes a long way toward understanding why some mirror is harder to etch, and the inconsistencies of power/speed combinations we get when trying to etch mirrors from several different sources..