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View Full Version : Advise on a Speir Plane



Richard Goodwin
08-19-2007, 11:44 PM
I have the opportunity to buy a Speirs AYR plane. Are they any good, and what do people think would be a fair price to pay for it.

The iron is stamped with the label "James Howarth. warranted, cast steel, Sheffield". The locking plate is brass. It is 240mm long and 65mm wide.
Its in very tidy condition. Any thought?

Clint Jones
08-20-2007, 12:13 AM
By Spiers Ayr I assume you mean infill. If its nice and you can get it for $300 or less I would say go for it. I would really have to see a picture or have more details on the plane .I am sure someone more knowledgeable will chime in. -Clint

rick fulton
08-20-2007, 8:03 AM
Sample of recent sales. Note that "Spiers type" goes for a fraction of the Spiers, particularly if you can still read the stamp in the wood on the toe of the plane.

70315

If the mouth is still tight, these planes are awesome users, even if they are 100 years old. The following is a Mathieson smoother.

70318

70317

James Carmichael
08-20-2007, 1:15 PM
Give me the contact information for the seller, I'll check it out and let you know:-)

According to Garrett Hack, Spiers is the original infill, copied by Norris & Mathieson.

Jim Nardi
08-20-2007, 2:50 PM
Depending on how much of the finish is left and what the infill is made of. There are cast and dovetailed ones about. Could be from 200-1200 dollars.

Don Naples
08-20-2007, 4:15 PM
Richard:

Here is a link that documents the name. It might be interesting to see which version of the spelling you may purchase. www.antiquetools.co.uk/spiers.html
These infill planes are very nice to use. Once sharp, the weight of the plane, thickness of the iron, and bedding of the iron on wood, along with a tight throat make these planes work well even on figured woods or woods with difficult to plane grain patterns.

Barry Vabeach
08-20-2007, 9:46 PM
Richard, Prices on infills are determined, in part , by how collectors might value the plane, even though some of their preferences don't impact a user. For a user there are several issues - to me the coffin sided is nicer than the straight sided, ( I just sike the feel better) and from what I see on ebay the coffin sided has a slight premium. I prefer the handled to the unhandled, but haven't seen enough sales of unhandled to see if there is a consistent difference, but suspect that handled would cost more. The next item that impacts the price is the blade - tapered blade ( which is the lowest price) to parallel or gauged iron ( which is next) to gauged iron with thin opening ( highest value). IIRC Spiers did not sell its planes with its own stamped irons for quite some time so I don't think that there is as strong a premium for a Spiers plane with a Spiers iron as there is for a Norris plane with a Norris iron. Another issue is the damage to the handle ( on a plane this old, it is a given the handle is damaged ) The highest grade would be well repaired crack , followed by repaired in useable, but average condition, down to handle is poorly repaired or loose. Finally, the condition of the infill ( many have chips on the front infill from being struck by a hammer ) 2 spiers have sold on ebay in the last 30 days each for over $500 - though I think those prices are high. Another straight sided Spiers didn't get any bids the first time it was listed with a $400 opening. http://www.thebestthings.com/infill.htm has 2 for sale in the 500 - 700 range. Tony Murland used to sell them closer to $300 - $400 including shipping, but I can't reach his site lately. This site has a http://www.oldtools.co.uk/tools/norris/norris.pl600.php Norris for about $400 plus shipping and without debating whether a post war Norris is as good a user as a Spiers, there is no doubt that Norris name generally commands a premium price over Spiers, all other things being equal. So if it was a coffin handled smoother in good condition with a parallel iron with a decent mouth and the handle is in good shape IMHO it would be a steal at $300 and a good deal around $400. Barry

Richard Goodwin
08-21-2007, 1:10 AM
Thanks for the photo Rick, this one looks very similar, but it is a coffin shape, and the rivet on the side looks in a slightly different place. Sorry Jim, I am not in an position to give the name of the seller as it is being sold in an auction. Thank to all those who replied, I hope I am able to purchase it, as it sounds as if it would be quite an improvement on my Stanley No. 4!

James Mittlefehldt
08-21-2007, 5:46 AM
Oddly enough I have a plane that on the surface looks very much like an older Stanley no 5, but there are some distinct differences in the bedding casting, the frog and the lateral adjustment lever mechanism.

It has a James Howarth iron as well, but it appears to have been made for the plane, which is not marked anywhere else.

Derek Cohen
08-21-2007, 9:38 AM
Sometimes you happen on a Spier without even realising it. I bought this sorry unmarked plane with the intention of "doing something" with the shell.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Restoration/P1010015.jpg

A complete rebuild (including iron, wood and lever cap screw) and it looked like this...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/spier2.jpg

It does a good job on some difficult timber.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Restoration/Planingagainstthegrain2.jpg

I can't say that it lost value in being rebuilt - it had none to start with! :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

nic obie
08-21-2007, 1:31 PM
Hey Derek,

NICE plane!

Jim Newman
08-22-2007, 3:03 PM
I have a Spiers of Ayr coffin smoother without the handle and I also happen to have a Norris which I suspect is an A50 unbreakable. The Spiers is the superior plane in use....it literally polishes the wood compared to the Norris. It has a heft and feel that is indescribable, but heck, what do I know....I'm a neanderthal!

Barry Vabeach
08-22-2007, 9:26 PM
While no where near the infill collector that some are, I have a Norris A6 ( post war) closed handle and a Spiers open handled coffin smoother and while the Norris handle feels better in my hand, the Spiers does have an incredible feel like it is vacuuming shavings. I am trying to tune up the Norris and it is possible it may get better, but right now the Spiers is far ahead.

Joel Moskowitz
08-23-2007, 10:48 AM
Norris post war in general don't perform anywhere a pre-war. And the cast Norrises like the A50 (with the exception of the A17) do not have wood under the iron and are the Norris Low end and should not really be considered infills and don't work nearly as well as the rosewood stuffed planes. ( YMMV on individual samples)

Don Naples
08-23-2007, 9:45 PM
While no where near the infill collector that some are, I have a Norris A6 ( post war) closed handle and a Spiers open handled coffin smoother and while the Norris handle feels better in my hand, the Spiers does have an incredible feel like it is vacuuming shavings. I am trying to tune up the Norris and it is possible it may get better, but right now the Spiers is far ahead.

Barry: I have an A5 Norris that has a throat that is significantly more open than the Spiers. Is that the case with your A6? I thought of shimming the Norris with a sheet of copper, but have not yet bothered. In my experience, the Mathieson has the tightest throat, but I have only a few that I use, and am not a collector, so don't have enough to compare a meaningful number of these fine planes.

Jim Newman
08-24-2007, 1:13 AM
Derek, what a great job on your "lucky" find! My Spiers of Ayr plane is similar to yours except the wood in back of the iron is higher and comes up past the screw in the lever cap. The plane does such a great job, I can't bring myself to do anything to it except put in a Hock 3/16" replacement blade, which works great, BTW.

My Norris does not say unbreakable on the front of the plane, but the configuration is exactly the same and has a steel Norris London lever cap. I suspect it is a very late model and the wood looks to be mahogany instead of rosewood. The plane still works very well (again with a Hock 3/16" replacement iron), though not as nice as the Spiers. I agree, make sure the wood infill goes up high on the iron and the "overstuffed" version where the wood comes to the side edges of the plane is preferrred. If anyone has ideas on my Norris, please educate me.

Barry Vabeach
08-24-2007, 8:44 PM
Don, the Norris I have doesn't have a large throat. I made replacement blades for both planes so that both planes have a fairly tight opening ( I am not a fanatic about the mouth size, I made the Spiers blade because it came with a tapered iron and I wanted a snecked iron, since I was making one, I decided to make a few more and made one for the Norris as well) and while I was at it I made new chipbreakers for each plane so the differences are unrelated to the blades or chipbreakers. Instead the Spiers seems to have a lower center of gravity and the Norris just doesn't seem to plane very well - I tried lapping but I think I must not have done a good job. The other possibility is that the Spiers may have a slight convex bottom and that might allow it to take a full length shaving when the Norris can't - though when I get some time I will be working on the Norris to try to sort that out. Barry