Best Cabinet saw under $4,000? Help me spend!

[Nathan Conner]

I sold my Craftsman 22114 for 5 bills last night. After owning it for 4 years, I found it under-powered, noisy, and not terribly accurate. What am I SAYING? It was horrid on accuracy. (Compared to a "Really Good" saw) I took good care of the top, but rarely did I blow it out inside, oiled the trunnion mechs once a year, maybe. So, it was squeaky and just...a weak saw. It was intended as an in-between saw, until I could save the money for THE cab saw I'd have for the rest of my woodworking hobby.

So, I went and priced out and looked at the Sawstop on Wednesday here in Portland. In the showroom, it looked fabulous, though the top had some stains, light fingerprint rust, surface nicks, and a few dings here and there. (Nothing big, though I'd certainly take better care of it than they are, and it's never even been turned on)

Basically, with SWMBO's approval, I have a blank check with which to purchase a new saw, as long as it falls under the cost of the Sawstop, which, when loaded up with the 52" fence, 5hp single-phase, prices out at $3950 or so.

That's a BIG pile of gold for me, and way outprices anything I've spent on a tool...by a factor of 4. So, I'm thinking... My dream saw (until I saw the SS in action) was always a good PM 66. I'm wondering, now that I have the pile of gold - could I keep about 1/2 and get one?

Obviously, the benefits of the Sawstop are...well, I have 10 good ones right in front of me. 20 if you count the difficult cuts where I have to stand on the saw. It's totally reasonable to believe that one trip to the ER with a missing/injured digit would be significantly more costly and life-affecting than the $2k I'd save. There's that.

OTOH, I'm not that prolific - just a weekend woodworker. I NEVER make unsafe cuts intentionally (duh!) but I imagine everyone who loses fingers may think that. I treat that spinning blade like a demon from the deepest depths, and rarely take my eyes off of it until it stops. I cringe at some of the cuts I see on woodworking shows that are just scary bad. And, in terms of scary tools, I'm way more "a-scairt" of the jointer and the bandsaw blades than I ever am of the tablesaw.

So...back to my issue. Is there a saw that's unimaginably awesome for this price? I can't go over the $4k limit, but all I know of the good saws are the PM, Unisaw, SC, Jet...the standards. Is there something out there (I'm limited to single-phase power) I'd pay less for and would be a better quality/longer lasting/better built saw? SS owners, and everyone - is this a no-brainer? If so, I can pick up the SS tomorrow. I don't intend a raging debate on the benefits of the SS, I see them everywhere, and it seems a great saw.

Just making sure I don't have buyers' regret before I even buy! (First time the blade drops...I imagine that regret would go flying out the window)

[Andrew Williams]

IMO you cannot do better than a Sawstop for this money. The best you will be able to get is another saw that cuts just as well and does not have the safety feature. I love my Sawstop, although it did cost about 4200 dollars with tax and delivery.

I know next to nothing about eurosliders, but there may be some out there that fit your budget. I am not going that way though since I feel that a cabinet saw is more suited to complex joinery and things like cove-cuts than a slider. Seems to me, however, that if you are mainly using your TS for rips and crosscuts, then the euro-slider is the way to go, especially for a cabinet shop that works with ply goods.

[Lance Norris]

Unisaw for half the price of the SS, or Grizzly 1023 for a forth of the SS. You will do fine with either of those. I have a Uni and wont ever need anything better.

[Mark Singer]

I think the SawStop is your best choice and I have owned PM 66 and UniSaw....the safety is very nice and it is a great saw besides

[Greg Funk]

How about a Unisaw/General/PM and a powerfeeder? You can use the powerfeeder on your shaper as well.

Greg

[Robert Conner]

I used a Unisaw for many years I never gave it a second thought. When I retired and decided I needed my own TS I went with a very good Contractor model, that lasted 1 month before I sold it and bought a Unisaw. I did not realize how good the Unisaw was, I just took it for granted.
I am sure many of the other Cabinet saws such as SC, PM, Jet and Grizzly are good saws but what really impressed me was the real world durability of the Unisaw. The one I used was in a School environment,it was used constantly and abused on occasion. It was 15+ years old before I ever used it. The bearings and belts were at least 25 years old and most likely 40 years old. The only maintenance was just occasional lubrication and cleaning when time permitted, it just kept working. The top was regularly waxed this was used as a lesson for students. It had the old style fence with the round rails, those fences were replaced twice, and the male plug for the floor socket came out second best to the Custodians floor machine a couple of times. With school budgets what they are money was spent on supplies not better fences.
The SS seems great, I just think it is way too much money. I also feel one might start to rely on the built in Safety and start to get too confident.
Enough Rant you get the point, JMHO
Robert:)

[John Thompson]

Morning Nathan...

What do you do most with your saw?..... Large panels.. angle cuts.. cross-cut.. Rip.. etc. ?

That is the first question I would ask myself before I went any further as it is of my opionion that it is the key element to answer your question!

Regards.. and won't state my opinion before I know how you use your saw most and what degree you use it for the lesser functions it will perform.

Sarge...

[Allen Bookout]

To me it seems like that the decision would depend on current tool needs and your financial situation. If you already have all of the tools that you need and have the cash go for a $4000 saw. If not go for a $1500 or $2000 saw and apply the extra $2500 or $2000 for other needs. If you have more money than you need for everything then the sky is the limit. In that case you might want to go for a high end slider or a basic Euro or something simular depending on how you use your saw.

[Jim O'Dell]

From a casual observer, if I had the money, I'd want a euro-slider. But is there even one in your price range? Maybe a good used one? I see them as having user safety features that would negate needing the blade to drop, unless you're prone to doing really really stupid things. Yes I know accidents happen, but I just see the slider as a tool where your hands don't have to get close to the blade to make the cut.
Realistically for me buying new, I think a General TS will be the upper limits of what I will one day be able to afford. (and from what I hear quality/build wise, the Saw Stop is on the quality level of the General with the added safety of the drop mechanism.) And probably will end up with a Grizz because of money constraints. Not that I won't keep my eyes peeled for a good used euro when the time comes. Jim

[Dick Sylvan]

I feel that a cabinet saw is more suited to complex joinery and things like cove-cuts than a slider. Seems to me, however, that if you are mainly using your TS for rips and crosscuts, then the euro-slider is the way to go, especially for a cabinet shop that works with ply goods.

Since I ordered my Hammer combination machine, I can't tell you how many articles and almost entire magazines I have seen devoted to TS jigs and aftermarket add-ons that I will never have to use because the slider can do it w/o the add-ons. I can think of almost nothing that a cabinet saw can do that a slider can't.

[Nathan Conner]

Somebody brought up a really interesting point - well, there's been several, but a good one is that if I can remove myself from the equation via a powerfeeder, I wouldn't need to worry about the safety features of the SS.

Generally the work I will do varies between full sheets and ripping T&G off of scraps, to cutting some exotics for trim. So, it's sort of all over the place. I've never used a slider, though I have several sleds I made and love for crosscut work.

I like the idea of a Unisaw or PM with a feeder - that way I could save some money, have a great saw, and be able to use the power feeder on other tools, as well...

Lots of food for thought, but I'm leaning slightly away from the SS at the moment. Tempting, but...Gees. Bigger decision than I thought, and lots of decent options. Honestly, a little Jet may do all I'll ever need, but I love working on something that's overpowered - always feels better to me.

[Michael Schwartz]

PM2000, Steel City, or Sawstop.

[Dave Laird in NM]

Hi Nathan.
If were in the market for a new saw I would be looking at the new Steel City Tools Works with a granite top, tight tolerances no rust and a great saw for a great price.

Now the only question is when will they have them available?

Just my $.02.

[Justin Bukoski]

Nathan,

You really owe it to yourself to look into a sliding table saw. I just sold my PM2000 to buy a combo machine because I recently used a friend's slider and couldn't believe how much easier and accurate it was. I believe Rojek and Laguna both have sliders in your price range (if you haggle a little) and Grizzly has a new one out for under $3K.

I live in the Portland area (Vancouver) and my new toy arrives tomorrow. If you want to drop by and check it out send me a PM. I'm not sure how long it will take to clean the shipping gunk off but you are welcome once I have it set-up.

[James Phillips]

Another sawstop vote. I have it and love it. Think of it this way: Will you regret spending the $$? I doubt it. If you don't buy and have an accident will you regret not spending the $$? Yes. What is peace of mind worth? Let you wife have some input on the safety perspective.

[Dick Sylvan]

Nathan,

You really owe it to yourself to look into a sliding table saw. I just sold my PM2000 to buy a combo machine because I recently used a friend's slider and couldn't believe how much easier and accurate it was. I believe Rojek and Laguna both have sliders in your price range (if you haggle a little) and Grizzly has a new one out for under $3K.

I live in the Portland area (Vancouver) and my new toy arrives tomorrow. If you want to drop by and check it out send me a PM. I'm not sure how long it will take to clean the shipping gunk off but you are welcome once I have it set-up.
What combo did you get?

[Dana Vogel]

http://www.lagunatools.com/tablesaws.htm

[Gary Muto]

The PM200 has a good rivng knife and sust collection (safety and health). I would choose it.
I realy agree with your comment that the TS is not the only dangerous machine in the chop. The whirr of jointer blades is always a reminder.
Good luck and congratulations.

[Josh LaFrance]

I just got a pm2000 and love it. It's got the most important saftey feature, a good riving knife setup. I think it's a better setup than the SS. The SS is really nice but for the extra $2k all you really getting is the blade stop. If I had the space I would consider a slider. The new grizzly looks very nice and is only about $500 more than the PM2000. I would have gone with it except I don't have the space and need the ability to roll my saw around which is really easy with the PM2000. The other down side with Sliders is that they won't take a dado blade. You'll have to use a router for all your dados.

[Rick Lizek]

Raise your dream standard!
Slider is the way to go. Much safer and more flexible than a cabinet saw.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0623X

[Don Bullock]

Nathan, I can't tell you what to do, but I can tell you what I did in your situation. I bought the SawStop. After looking at the videos on their site and showing them the the LOML we both agreed that this was the best choice for me. Knowing that the SwaStop technology was available I couldn't justify buying a different saw. I felt that if I did buy another one and had an accident that a SawStop could have prevented I would never be able to live with that mistake. Yes, I use push sticks. I even keep the guard on the saw unless I'm doing something like a dado where one can't be used. For me, safety was my biggest concern. As others shared with me before I ordered it, the SawStop is an excellent saw without the safety features. Is it as good as any other saw on the market? I couldn't say. I "moved up" from an old Chraftsman contractors table saw. What I can say is this is one fantastic saw when compared to my old one.

I realize that some point to a slider as being safer and easier to use. Jim Becker loves his slider. Since I've never used a slider and have only seen them at woodworking shows, I can't advise you on them, but I would encourage you to check them out if you are at all interested in one.

Good luck in making your choice. There are a lot of saws out there to pick from.

[Paul Hendrickson]

Been lurking for awhile as all my stuff has been in storage for a year and won't have the shop up and running for awhile, but one thing has been missing from this thread. Isn't the riving knife the most important safety feature? It is my understanding that the most frequent finger to blade contact is from kickback, and a riving knife all but eliminates this. IOW, the riving knife is what makes the sawstop safer, and you can get a bunch of great cabinet saws with riving knives right now for a lot less. PM66 and Jet are what come to mind first.

[Richard Butler]

I have a problem spending $5 for a cabinet saw but if I wanted to spend that kind of money, then I would go pro. A used Northfield comes to mind.

[Anthony Anderson]

I have the SawStop and love it. No regrets whatsoever. The SawStop is a much nicer saw, and better built, IMO, than any of the other saws that I looked at before I bought. The knife and brake are just bonuses. Absolutely no complaints. Oh, and to the often posed argument, that the safety features will make SawStop owners become careless, I say this, Do you drive in your car and play chicken on the highway just because you have auto insurance:rolleyes:? Do you go out and play in lightning storms or run in front of traffic because you have life insurance:rolleyes:? Actually the safety features do make me less nervous when I am using the tablesaw, and to me, being less nervous allows me to focus more on being safe. Yes, IMO, the Sawstop is the best cabinet saw on the market right now, with or without the safety features. Do a search here, you will find this discussion has been rehashed many, many, many, many, many, times. Good Luck on your decision. Bill

[Bill Stevens]

1.General 650
2. Sawstop
3. All the usual suspects

[Rob Russell]

This is a bit over your price range, but you'd be getting a LOT more machine than anything mentioned to date. I don't have a Mimimax bias, in fact I'm a Felder owner. This is just a great deal for someone.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=63044

As info, it's a 12" sliding table combination machine with 16" jointer/planer.

[Joe Jensen]

There are few things you need to consider.
1) How much space do you have?
2) Are you ok buying used?
3) What do you do most with the saw, what kind of work do you do?

If you do a lot of sheet goods, have a large space, and you are ok buying used, I'd highly recommend a slider. If I had the space, I'd have a slider. I am using most of a 3 car garage, and if I had a slider I'd lose most of the space I use for projects. Also, I mainly use hardwoods and for me, ripping with the sliders looks like a compromise compared to ripping with a cabinet saw and a good fence. It can be done, but it looks more fussy and slower. When I get a large shop I'll have a slider and a cabinet saw. If the cabinet saw proves redundent then I'll sell it.

I started in 1986 with a used Unisaw. I upgraded to a left tilt PM66 in 1990. In 2006 I upgraded to a SawStop. Zero regrets. IMHO it's better built than the PM66, and mine was an old american built one. The SawStop also has a significantly larger cast iron top than the PM66, and the PM66 is larger than the Unisaw. I was just at a used tool store and I was really surprised at how small the top on the Uni looked after living with the SawStop for 18 months....joe

[Kim Spence]

I have 2 cabinet saws - a Unisaw I purchased new in 2005, and a Sawstop I won from Woodcraft magazine this spring. I only mention that I won the SS because my opinion of the saw hasn't been influenced by having spent $4k on it :)

That said, I think both saws are fantastic and I wouldn't hesitate to purchase either of them. They do each have their differences and "quirks". Here are my thoughts...

Power - The Uni "feels" like it has more power. Both are 3hp saws, but with the same blade installed on each the SS seems to labor a bit more when ripping thick hardwoods. I do think the SS has sufficient power and I've never had it completely bog down or stall, but it just doens't feel quite like the Uni. I have no way to quantify this, its just based the way they feel in use. Could be due to the SS having a Taiwanese/Chinese motor and I think the Uni has a Weg motor (American company, believe made in Brazil).

Fences - I have a Bies on the Uni and the Sawstop fence on the SS. I give the nod to the SS fence because it glides more smoothly, adjusts easier, and the rails seem to be heavier gauge steel. The Bies is pretty darn nice though.

Fit and Finish - nod goes to the SS, better paint, holes pre-drilled in extension table for easier assembly, etc. But it is machinery so does paint and ease of assembly really matter much?

Safety - obviously this goes to the SS, but only you can decide if this is a determining factor in your purchase.

Since I've had both saws, I've set up the SS for mainly ripping, while I use the Uni for dadoing and with a sled for crosscutting/mitering.

Bottom line - both are awesome saws and I highly recommend either of them. If you've got the cash take the SS plunge, you won't be sorry. But the $2000 extra for the SS could buy a lot of other nice machinery!

Happy shopping.

K. Spence

[Kim Spence]

The SawStop also has a significantly larger cast iron top than the PM66, and the PM66 is larger than the Unisaw. I was just at a used tool store and I was really surprised at how small the top on the Uni looked after living with the SawStop for 18 months....joe


I agree with Joe on this one...having both a Uni and a SS in my shop, sizewise the Uni almost looks like a "toy" next to the SS. The SS top is massive.

[Homer Faucett]

I got a Sawstop back in March. I didn't spend $4k, as I did not buy the fence, but I was definitely leery of pulling the trigger with the price tag. Even with my wife insisting that I purchase this saw, I was sure I would have buyer's remorse.

However, I have to say that I am very pleased with the saw, and the extra piece of mind that comes with the brake makes woodworking more enjoyable for me. While other tools are just as dangerous, I definitely use my table saw more than any other tool in my shop.

I am very impressed with the SS--heavy, wide CI surface, great fit and finish, wonderful riving knife that is easy to swap out with the splitter/blade guard, great dust collection. I am sure that I would have been just as happy with a PM 2000, but the additional safety feature on the SS is the only reason I upgraded from a Delta contractor saw. Once my wife saw the SS triggered at the local woodworking show, that was it. She told me, "You're getting a new saw . . . sooner rather than later."

[Joe Jensen]

Once my wife saw the SS triggered at the local woodworking show, that was it. She told me, "You're getting a new saw . . . sooner rather than later."

Funny, that's about how it went for me. A friend saw a SawStop at a local dealer with the top removed so buyers could "see under the hood". I was in the area of the store with my wife so we stopped so I could take a look, and also to take some pics for my brother who lives far from any dealer. While I was looking and poking around, the salesman talked to my wife. Within 5 min she saw a video of the hotdog and was sold. She had me order it while we were standing there...joe

[Justin Bukoski]

Next thing you know SawStop will be advertising in Cosmo and Women's Health! :)

[Dave Bureau]

To me a good saw is a good saw. Its only as good as the fence system. I have a joint tech on mine and i couldnt think of a more accurate system out there. I dont have a sawstop but i like the safety issues. If i had to buy another, it would be a saw stop with a joint tech fence system.

[James Carmichael]

With one child starting private pre-K and another back to college this week, I don't have 4k to spend on tools in my dreams:-)

If I didn't have other needs (say a bigger jointer and/or bandsaw), I'd go SawStop or look for a deal on a Euro slider. I'd also give the Griz slider a very hard look.

[Don Bullock]

To me a good saw is a good saw. Its only as good as the fence system. I have a joint tech on mine and i couldnt think of a more accurate system out there. I dont have a sawstop but i like the safety issues. If i had to buy another, it would be a saw stop with a joint tech fence system.

Dave is correct about the fence being very important part of a table saw. I bought an Incra for my SawStop. I's very accurate as well, but the SawStop fence is a very good one. Since the SawStop fence is optional and I plan to add a routher table to the right of the SawStop, I thought the Incra would be a good choice. I think that the basic fence is just a little more than the SawStop fence.

[Nathan Conner]

So, the end result for me was the PM 2000. Probably not the best saw for under $4k. But I think it was best for me, my projected use, my abilities and my wallet. There was one at the local Woodcraft. They cut me a bit of a break on the price, were willing to load it up for me, and I've always had good luck there.

I played with lots of used saws at some local stores, and I'm always left wondering a) how they were treated and b) how much life have they left? So I had to stay away from used. On the BS or lathe, I was ok trying them out and seeing them run, but there's just something nice about your shop's Centerpiece being shiny and new.

Anyhow. I played with lots of them. The fit/finish on the Unisaw and the tabletop size steered me clear of it. The General and Grizz seemed a little sloppy to me. The Jet was a close third, I think, after the SS. (Had the SS been a few $$ cheaper, it would have been an easy choice). Of course, I couldn't play with a Laguna, though I liked the price, and couldn't afford the MM or see one, for that matter. I hate buying something I can't physically touch and go over.

Finally, I had a SS and a PM2000 side by side. I liked the feel of the fence and the trunnion movement and the built-in casters better on the PM, and figured that a PM with a feeder would be as safe as the SS. Probably an incorrect assumption, but with the costs of maintenance on the SS, in this climate where everything seems wet all the time (I'm still not used to a dry shop!) and I'd be worried about accidentally triggering it and wasting a $120 blade. After lots of consideration and discussion, it seems the best option for me was a new saw, lower price, slightly better feature set, ease of part replacement if ever necessary. The PM was a good choice for me.

It came home with me from the store (another plus...of course) and I got some friends over to get it in the shop. A bunch of assembly later, it's all set up and happy. As I said in another thread (want to point this out again, I was pretty suspicious):


when I went to purchase a Dial indicator at <name removed so I'm not killing anyone's business> - I was told: "Just use a tape to set up the fence. You never need a Dial indicator to set up a table saw, especially a Powermatic. That's just complete overkill. Those saws are set up correctly out of the box. They know waaaay more about setting up at the factory than you do, they have way better tools than you do, and you'll just screw things up if you futz around with it." Another one of the workers was nodding in the background, "Yeah, see they even have tilt indicators on the saw box, and if it gets tilted by the shipper, you just call Powermatic and refuse the saw from the shipper. That way you know it's never been tilted and it's going to be set up right out of the box"

I won't be going back to that particular store again. No, it wasn't where I purchased the saw.

Anyhow, it's set up, now just needs the tuning stage, and I couldn't be happier. It's way more saw than I'll EVER need, and I was happy with the price and features. It's gorgeous, and makes the rest of my tools green, tan and orange with envy.

The first test was the nickel test, of course, but because I saved so much money, all I had was $100s in my pocket. Well, ok. I had a quarter. It took about 10 seconds to get standing on end on the table, but I was able to turn the beastie on, rip a piece of 4/4 oak, and turn it off, all without disturbing the quarter. Then, was able to breathe gently and watch it tip over immediately.

The smile is still there. :)

I do feel some vibration in the top while it's running, but I'm sure that's inevitable. It's also louder than I expected, and the fence is a PITA to adjust compared to the Craftsman. I'm sure it's simply out of adjustment and I'm not used to it. I'm used to "bumping up on the lever" on the Craftsman fence to do slight adjustments, and nothing to bump on this guy. Bought a new Forrest 40T and a Systematic 50T to try out. I have a relative here in town who used to sell Matsushita blades - he gave me a new 7 1/4" x 1/16" (Way thinner than I've ever used!) blade he told me to try out on it. I'll try, but I'm skeptical. REALLY skeptical. I know to remove the riving knife before I try it.

I picked up a Steff stock feeder for the saw, but I'm afraid it will have to go back to the store. Mostly because it's missing a major piece out of the box (some salesman stole it for another customer and didn't replace it). But also because I just don't rip all that much, and didn't understand it's advantages and setup as well as I thought before I bought it. The thought of drilling holes in the new top makes me cringe, and the fact that it's so heavy makes it completely impractical for the amount of setup required for each cut. I never do production work, so it's total overkill for me. And I can't imagine myself replacing/removing every time I want to rip something too large for it, or when I want a cut that will cause the fence to be blocked by the base. Maybe there's a setup trick to it I don't know about, and it's useful for me after all? I have no shaper, just a small Rockler router table. Regardless, this one will go back due to the missing piece, and I may or may not pick up another in the future.

So, anyhow, I'm tickled to have the new saw. I really appreciate all the advice, and there were a LOT of things I didn't consider before I submitted the question that your replies brought up.

Thanks again, guys. I'll let you know how it runs after the setup tuning is complete. And with the money I've saved, I'll keep my eyes open for an upgrade to my jointer at some point later this year.

[Don Bullock]

Congratulations and enjoy your new saw.:D

[Allen Bookout]

I'll bet that you are going to really love that saw. One thing that I use for ripping that I really like is the Grip-Tite. You might want to take a look. The only bad side is that the metal fence rust really fast so if you do get one put some T9 and/or wax on it right away.

[Bart Leetch]

Well you could buy a Saw Stop & gold plate it. :eek: :) :D

The amount you spend on a saw isn't the measure of a saw or the measure of the quality of work you can do with it come on back down & put you feet on the earth & get real & please don't get mad at me. Perfect does make it easier for someone that is doing it for a hobby or a business for that matter. But highly accurate will work too. You don't really need the cream of the crop.

There are many many old Delta Unisaws out there that were just setting in a corner with a slightly rusty top & paint problems & maybe bearings that need to be replaced have been brought back with a clean up & paint & bearings & a new fence for under $1000 & are great saws. I know I have a 1940 model of a Unisaw & I did just this to bring it back. I didn't even replace the bearings it wasn't needed.

I am not saying you need to overhaul a saw. but I am saying you don't have to throw money at a saw to get a good one & it doesn't have to be a top of the heap name brand saw either. For a little more than your wanting to spend I could buy a New 10" cabinet saw, combo Jointer/Planer & a real good 17" band-saw & a clear vue cyclone system cost $5334.00 plus tax & shipping.

Now maybe your out to WOW someone & that is what turns you on. Sorry it doesn't impress me & never has. Sorry if I have stepped on some toes. But I don't plan to drop a lot of money on any one tool. You can get real good tools that will do what you want with out breaking the bank.

Congratulations on your new PM.

The sloppy feel you thought you felt in the Grizzly & General probably wasn't even as much as the change from winter to summer in the wood your going to cut.

Of course I rushed because of time & didn't read about which saw your purchased but my feelings haven't changed. That is unless your going to use your PM to produce in a business.

Now this won't stop me from stopping to see Jim's MM slider & MM combo Jointer/Planer when ever I get too. I still like to see a nice piece of equipment when ever I get the chance.:D

[Nathan Conner]

Bart, why do you hate America?

I mean, c'mon. If you don't throw money at a perceived problem, it will NEVER go away. And my work would obviously be better if I had a $12k saw, because I'd have to charge more for it. And as we all know, expensive IS better.

(*snicker*)

You're right, of course. No need to go overboard with my purchases. I just want something that will last me a long time and be a joy to use...and admire. Not saying I couldn't have gotten that out of my old saw. Wait...yes, yes I am. It wasn't a joy to use, and didn't "do it" for me. It drove me batty more often than it was easy to just "use it and not think about it".

But I love my lathe - wouldn't trade it for anything - it's about 50 years old, heavy, and beautiful. It's no Oneway with digital this and vacuum that, but...I don't need that.

I'll enjoy my PM - it's the tablesaw for me that will last 50 years. It better, at least.

[Bart Leetch]

Nathan

I am so glad you have a sense of humor. Yes I do hope you enjoy your PM.

[Justin Bukoski]

Nathan,

DON'T use that thin kerf blade on the PM2000 unless you remove the riving knife (which is a bad idea). Stick with full kerf blades for the safest use.

Congrats on your new toy!

[Nathan Conner]

Yeah, I thought of that one - I'll make sure and remove the knife before I try this little blade. It'll be awhile until I actually get to make anything. I have to get it set up correctly - too much other stuff going on. You may have some advice about the recycling thread I just started, being local.

(PM me if you'd like - I'd love to see this new saw you've picked up and get any advice on the 2000.)

[Rod Sheridan]

Nathan, congratulations on your new saw, I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

I have one question, you mentioned that the General and the Grizzly felt sloppy, what does that mean?

I have a General 650 and sloppy isn't an adjective I'd use for it.

Regards, Rod.

[Matt Moore]

I am envious. Enjoy your saw.

It does seem odd to me that one of the reasons you stepped away from the SS is that you would use a feeder to keep your fingers away and now it appears that you are not going to use a feeder.

"I picked up a Steff stock feeder for the saw, but I'm afraid it will have to go back to the store. Mostly because it's missing a major piece out of the box (some salesman stole it for another customer and didn't replace it). But also because I just don't rip all that much, and didn't understand it's advantages and setup as well as I thought before I bought it. The thought of drilling holes in the new top makes me cringe, and the fact that it's so heavy makes it completely impractical for the amount of setup required for each cut. I never do production work, so it's total overkill for me. And I can't imagine myself replacing/removing every time I want to rip something too large for it, or when I want a cut that will cause the fence to be blocked by the base. Maybe there's a setup trick to it I don't know about, and it's useful for me after all? I have no shaper, just a small Rockler router table. Regardless, this one will go back due to the missing piece, and I may or may not pick up another in the future."

I am too late of course but if it were me and my wife authorized the purchase of a SS, I would not hesitate for a second to get the SS. Anything else is something less although you still have a great saw just without the safety features and larger table, etc.

By the way, my wife has "authorized" the purchase but we just don't have the money right now. If I did not have my eyes on a SS, I would upgrade to a used cabinet saw.

[Nathan Conner]

Good point, and I've thought about that, too. The sloppy referred to a couple of things - and by "sloppy", let me rephrase to: "Not as tight or solid-feeling as the PM".

The handwheels on the PM were bigger, the trunnion movement felt more solid, and you felt like you had instant response when you moved it.

Also, the fence was easier to move, felt like it had less play, both locked and unlocked.

Lastly, when I bumped each saw fairly hard with my hip, the PM felt like I was bumping a concrete bunker, while the others (except the Jet) felt like I was bumping a shed.

Now, that said, I've since adjusted both on the PM, and it feels WAAAY better than it did in the showroom. The fence feels like it was machined to fit the table, and the handwheels feel even better when it's solidly on my concrete floor.

So, in hindsight, I think the "sloppy" comment was undeserved. I shouldn't have taken the feel of a poorly/quickly set-up saw in a showroom as rent. I'm guessing that I was "blinded by mustard", as it were, and the PM felt better because it was 2x as much. I don't plan to spend all of my time playing with the trunnions or bumping it.

At least not after the first few weeks. :)

[Rod Sheridan]

Nathan, thanks for the clarification.

The PM must be expensive since the General is about $3,000!

Regards, Rod.