Router Help

[David Peno]

I am very new to woodworking and am having problems using my Bosch router. I went out and bought a set of templates to make an adorindak chair. I used whitewood ( since i'm new and wanted to learn on cheep wood) and I made a chair using a flush trim bit and clamping the wood to a table and handholding the router. I then decided to get a router table and now when I try and flush trim the pieces of wood the router takes out a big chunk of the wood if I go against the grain or runs up the wood very fast if I go the other way. I don't understand what I am doing wrong, does anyone know what my problem is?

Dave

Edit: Checked the manual and the wood runs when I pass it past the router in the proper direction, so..how do I stop it from running away from me?

[David DeCristoforo]

What you describe is exactly what will happen if you try to "cut" stock with a router bit. You need to cut the pieces out first (with a jig saw for example) to within a 1/16" or so of the line and then flush trim to the template. That's why it's called a flush "trim" bit. BTW, this is a fairly ambitious undertaking for a first project.

[Michael Schwartz]

Just rough it out first with a hand held circular saw and a jig saw, and take the final 1/16" of an inch or so off with the router.

Even if you were climb cutting it shouldn't grab it that much so it sounds like you are trying to take too much off.

Good luck with your first project.

[David Peno]

I guess I need to cut them closer. I used a jigsaw to cut the pieces close but not that close. Thanks for the help, I will give it a try again tomorrow.

[David DeCristoforo]

Also, you need to watch how the grain "runs out" on the edges of the stock. The direction of feed should always be "with" the grain which may change directions at various points along the edge. If the wood is tearing out, you are most likely cutting "into" the grain. Sometimes you need to move the router in the direction of cutter rotation which can cause the cutter to (as you so correctly state it) "run up the wood very fast". Having less wood to remove will help with this as will taking a few light cuts rather than trying to hog all the wood off in one pass. A good grip and some muscle is essential to control a cut like this.

[Chuck Lenz]

Also, you need to watch how the grain "runs out" on the edges of the stock. The direction of feed should always be "with" the grain which may change directions at various points along the edge. If the wood is tearing out, you are most likely cutting "into" the grain. Sometimes you need to move the router in the direction of cutter rotation which can cause the cutter to (as you so correctly state it) "run up the wood very fast". Having less wood to remove will help with this as will taking a few light cuts rather than trying to hog all the wood off in one pass. A good grip and some muscle is essential to control a cut like this.
I've never known it to be good practice to run a piece of wood through the router in the same direction as the cutter is spinning, no matter which way the grain of the wood is going.

[David DeCristoforo]

"I've never known it to be good practice..."

It is, nevertheless, unavoidable at times.... It's actually not a problem as long as you are not trying to remove a lot of wood and you have a good grip on things. It's much easier if your stock is held securely and you maintain a good grip on the router. If the router is fixed and you are moving the stock, a jig with good grips is helpful. This is one of those things that can easily turn into a post with a thousand conflicting replies. So, just for the record, let me add that if you are not comfortable doing this....don't do it.

[Gary Keedwell]

I've never known it to be good practice to run a piece of wood through the router in the same direction as the cutter is spinning, no matter which way the grain of the wood is going.
I watched a Video ( kept nodding off:eek: ) this afternoon where a "machine" called a Wood Rat did most of it's cuts with a "climbing cut". Claimed there was less "tear-out".
What I like to do is "hog" most of it out with a "conventional cut" and leave just a little bit and go over the whole thing with a climbing cut. Climbing cuts usually leave a better finish.
Gary K.

[Bruce Page]

I watched a Video ( kept nodding off:eek: ) this afternoon where a "machine" called a Wood Rat did most of it's cuts with a "climbing cut". Claimed there was less "tear-out".
What I like to do is "hog" most of it out with a "conventional cut" and leave just a little bit and go over the whole thing with a climbing cut. Climbing cuts usually leave a better finish.
Gary K.
This is also the method that I use.

As to the original question, David C. gives great advise.

[Bill Hylton]

David,

I use routers extensively and I have written a lot of magazine articles and books about router use. The manufacturer's booklet is a dreadful information source. I urge you to get a GOOD book on router use. Look for one that gives you more than a sentence or two about template work.

You need to learn and understand which direction to feed the router (or on a router table, to feed the work). Feed direction know-how is a safety issue first and foremost. I've had a router literally jerk itself out of my hands. And when working at a router table, I've had work snatched from my grasp and fired off the table. I both instances, I was darn lucky to be unscathed.

When you move the router in the direction the bit is spinning (clockwise in a hand-held router), it's called a climb cut, and it usually is inadvisable. It's tough to cover all the issues and explain all the dynamics involved in just a few sentences. You need to see some drawings and pictures too.

That's why I recommend you get a good tutorial before ruining more wood and putting yourself at further risk.

The trouble you are having is not uncommon. Climb cutting with a hand-held router is sometimes okay, but it may not really solve your problem. Climb cutting on a router table is always a bad, bad approach.

You always want the cutting edges sweeping down on the grain--as in rubbing down the nap of a rug. When the edges sweep up on the grain--raising the nap, so to speak--they can split the wood.

Instead of climb cutting, try turning the workpiece over, so the cutting edges, when you are feeding the router in the correct direction (counterclockwise), are sweeping down on the grain. You have to switch from a flush trim bit to a pattern bit (which has its pilot bearing on the shank). Or get a bit with a bearing on the shank and on the tip and adjust the bit extension according to where the template is. Or move the template from one face of the workpiece to the other, so it remains underneath, where the flush trimmer's bearing can contact it.

There's more than one way to do a thing.

Rout safely; rout productively.

Bill

[Jason Beam]

Bill's advice is my personal favorite. The disclaimer "Don't do it if you're not comfortable" is VERY sage advice, too.

But I think that there needs to be some education that prevents someone from becoming falsely comfortable with a given operation. Most of the injuries I've sustained have come because I had done something enough times without incident that I felt that I was comfortable with the process.

I took Bill's advice to try to help people who aren't yet comfortable with a given popular technique to decide if they want to try to become comfortable with it. It's far easier to prevent a potentially unsafe habit before it has chance to take root.

Finding one of those "dual bearing" bits is probably the perfect solution, i think. You can sometimes get away with flipping the pattern from one side to the other without throwing off the alignment, but it can become annoying if you're routing a complex shape or the grain direction changes frequently.

VERY light cuts helps a lot for me. I was routing dividers for some CD racks awhile back and lost three or four walnut pieces because the cut I was taking was wayy too much AND it was going up the grain - double trouble! Flung a couple of 'em before I understood what was happening. :)

[David Peno]

David,

I use routers extensively and I have written a lot of magazine articles and books about router use. The manufacturer's booklet is a dreadful information source. I urge you to get a GOOD book on router use. Look for one that gives you more than a sentence or two about template work.

You need to learn and understand which direction to feed the router (or on a router table, to feed the work). Feed direction know-how is a safety issue first and foremost. I've had a router literally jerk itself out of my hands. And when working at a router table, I've had work snatched from my grasp and fired off the table. I both instances, I was darn lucky to be unscathed.

When you move the router in the direction the bit is spinning (clockwise in a hand-held router), it's called a climb cut, and it usually is inadvisable. It's tough to cover all the issues and explain all the dynamics involved in just a few sentences. You need to see some drawings and pictures too.

That's why I recommend you get a good tutorial before ruining more wood and putting yourself at further risk.

The trouble you are having is not uncommon. Climb cutting with a hand-held router is sometimes okay, but it may not really solve your problem. Climb cutting on a router table is always a bad, bad approach.

You always want the cutting edges sweeping down on the grain--as in rubbing down the nap of a rug. When the edges sweep up on the grain--raising the nap, so to speak--they can split the wood.

Instead of climb cutting, try turning the workpiece over, so the cutting edges, when you are feeding the router in the correct direction (counterclockwise), are sweeping down on the grain. You have to switch from a flush trim bit to a pattern bit (which has its pilot bearing on the shank). Or get a bit with a bearing on the shank and on the tip and adjust the bit extension according to where the template is. Or move the template from one face of the workpiece to the other, so it remains underneath, where the flush trimmer's bearing can contact it.

There's more than one way to do a thing.

Rout safely; rout productively.

Bill

Bill,

I think I will take your advice and get a good router book. I used some of the other comments here and tried a few pieces last night with much better success. I cut the pieces very close to the template and did fine untill I encountered end grain. I am still getting tear out on the end grain. The thing that confuses me is that on the handheld trim work I did I had no tear out at all. I guess that is part of the learning process and I now need to get a good book.

Dave

[Richard M. Wolfe]

The others have given good advice - cut close so you have a small amount only to remove and if safe using a climbing cut will generally result in a smoother cut as you are cutting away from the wood rather than into it. Also, what size bit are you using? For a long time I used the cheap small flush trim bits you could buy at the woodworking shows for a couple bucks. I finally broke down and got a heavier much larger diameter three flute flush trim bit and it made all the difference.

[Nancy Laird]

David, you'll be a lot safer in doing this task if you jigsaw the pieces to within about 1/16 to 1/8", then take them down to dimension with an edge sander and/or a spindle sander. You won't have the problem of trying to rout against the grain, no tearout, and no danger of chopping off a piece of finger with a spinning router bit.

Just MHO and .02.

Nancy (123 days)