Wainscoting for panel doors?

[Greg Griswold]

Howdy, I have been lurking on this site for quite a while and have been impressed with the assistance/suggestions that has been offered here. It is refreshing to be able to ask a question and not feel like a complete idiot when reading the responses. Having said that, here goes my question.

LOML wants new kitchen cabinets. She likes the ones with wainscot inserts. I have built doors using the 1/4-inch artificial wainscot available at the big box, which looks ok but has no substance. I like the look and feel of raised panel doors that use a panel that is as thick as the rails and stiles. These raised panel doors have some substance and feel like they are of a higher quality.

OK, here's my question - how do I build panels that will look like wainscot and have the solid feel that I like? Do I use bead board and glue up panels, and then put in a big undercut on the back so that the front is uniformly recessed from the rails and stiles, or what.


Thanks, in advance for taking time to read this, and possilby responding.

Greg

[Todd Burch]

Greg, not sure what you mean by wainscot inserts. Do you have a picture to describe what you want to do?

Todd

[Jamie Buxton]

Well, you could use sheet beadboard and laminate it to another layer of something to give more heft. Another approach might be to use beadboard made the way they did in the days before plywood. The beadboard panel is assembled from inidividual strips of wood. Each strip has a bead on one edge, or some styles have a bead on one edge and one in the middle. You can buy prebeaded lumber in good molding yards, or you can make your own with a beading bit in a router, or even with a hand plane. A nice thing about the lumber approach is you get to use a clear finish on the doors; I've never seen sheet beadboard that was better than paint grade.

I'm not sure how you plan to combine beading and panel-raising. The beading is on the face of the panel, and the panel-raising cuts into the body of the panel. Won't it look strange if the beading just kinda gets cut off where the raising cuts in?

[Greg Griswold]

Jamie,

Sorry, not a real good description. The bead board/wainscot will not be a raised panel, just undercut on the back side. Will then be inserted into the rail and stile dado cut that would hold a raised panel insert. This would make the panel stick out behind the rail and stile, or it would have to be made planed down.

Seems like I need to try to find some bead board (not the 1/4 inch paneling) and plane it to the thickness that I will need to fit into the 3/4 inch rails and stiles with the surface starting at the front edge of the panel dado and even with the back of the rails and stiles.

Hope this clumsy description explains what I am trying to do. Our current doors have 1/4 paneling centers and flex and flop when you open or close the doors. They feel, and sound flimsy. I am trying to make doors that will have the solid, heavy feel of raised panel doors, but the look of a door with a wainscot/bead board center.

Again thanks.

Greg

[Jim Becker]

Sorry, not a real good description. The bead board/wainscot will not be a raised panel, just undercut on the back side. Will then be inserted into the rail and stile dado cut that would hold a raised panel insert. This would make the panel stick out behind the rail and stile, or it would have to be made planed down.

Seems like I need to try to find some bead board (not the 1/4 inch paneling) and plane it to the thickness that I will need to fit into the 3/4 inch rails and stiles with the surface starting at the front edge of the panel dado and even with the back of the rails and stiles.


My cabinetmaker neighbor makes these all the time, but uses a molding head cutter in the TS (Magic Molder from LRH in his case) to make the panels. That way, he can scale the beading to best match the cabinetry.

[Todd Burch]

Greg, is this what you mean?

[Jamie Buxton]

Greg --
You might not have to plane down the pre-beaded lumber. I believe I've seen it 3/8" and 1/2" thick, as well as 3/4". However, if you use 3/4" lumber with beading, you could consider making your door frame thicker rather than planing down the panel.

Jim --
Those molding heads on a table saw just creep me out. I know that folks have used for years, but still... all that's holding the inserts in is a screw. If that gets loose, there's big pieces of shrapnel flying in your face.

Jamie

[Jim Becker]

Those molding heads on a table saw just creep me out. I know that folks have used for years, but still... all that's holding the inserts in is a screw. If that gets loose, there's big pieces of shrapnel flying in your face.

I agree with you if you mean the Craftsman/Delta/etc versions and wouldn't use them on my saw due to the "creepie" factor. But the Magic Molder (http://www.lrhent.com/magic.htm) is quite a bit different in construction. Not only is the arbor a carefully machined and balanced piece of aluminum, the cutter sets are also balanced and lock exactly in place. The only downside is the cost...it's considerably more expensive than the "old style" molding head cutters.

[Greg Griswold]

Greg, is this what you mean?
Todd,

That is exactly what I have in mind.

Greg

[Todd Burch]

OK Greg - now we're talking!!

Those doors are on the first built-in I ever did. They are birch rails and stiles and Georgia Pacific 1/4" beadboard plywood panels. The doors are certainly not heavy, but there is no flimsiness to them at all. A few keys to construction are:

1) tight joinery on the rails and stiles and
2) a snug fit for the panel in the rail and stile grooves.
3) Caulk in all the right places if you are going to paint them.

Now, the beadboard. I was pretty picky when it came to choosing the beadboard. I went to both Lowes and Home Depot at the time to look. They had (basically) two flavors of beadboard in stock. They had the ply that actually had been routed with a rounded bead, and they had what I would call a fake beadboard, that simply had square cuts (like saw kerfs) that were supposed to resemble a bead, but it was just flat (and ugly). I bought all the rounded bead ply they had. When I went back for more, all the had was the flat - and get this - the part# from Georgia Pacific was the same! I called GP and got ahold of the "guy" who knew. He said that they had been getting too many complaints about the rounded bead, as the cut was deeper, and people didn't like the black lines that some of the core veneers had in them. I said "so what - it's getting painting". He was sympathetic, as he also agreed that the rounded bead was better looking, and a more classic/classy look, but there was nothing he could do about it and it wasn't going to be offered anymore. I was mahjor league bummed.

But, I persevered. I went back to Lowes and bought prefinished rounded birch beadboard (the same ply I was buying before - just factory finished). I scuffed up the surface and painted it. Viola! Noone knows the difference and I get the look I wanted.

Now, back to you. Nail the panels in place after you glue up the doors (pin nails work great, or little bitty staples, like an upholstery stapler). Caulk all side of both sides of the door, if you are painting. No rattling, no flimsy doors. Use good hinges too. I use extruded brass butt hinges (~$20/pair).

If you want a little "heavier" look, ou could always glue two pieces of beadboar dback-to-back and cut a 1/2" (actually, less, 'cuz the ply is really only about 5mm thick), groove. They gives you a fairly thin raised frame (1/8"+), but then you have bead on both sides.

Let us know what you decide and post pictures of how it turns out! Todd

[Greg Griswold]

Todd,

Thanks for the suggestions. I will give them a try, and will post a picture when I make some progress.

Jim,

That molding head looks interesting - thanks

Greg

[Daniel Rabinovitz]

Geg
Lowe's in the Pittsburgh area has it available in 3/8 inch.
So it ought to be available in your area.
It's not the 1/4 paneling that has the beads pressed into it.
These are cut into the 3/8 plywood
I have used it quite a bit - nice stuff.
Daniel
:cool:

[Ed Falis]

My cabinetmaker neighbor makes these all the time, but uses a molding head cutter in the TS (Magic Molder from LRH in his case) to make the panels. That way, he can scale the beading to best match the cabinetry.

Slick. Looks like I just found another use for my Magic Molder ;-)

Is he just cutting the "look" into a solid panel, or is he making separate pieces to join into a panel?


Thanks, Jim

- Ed

[Jim Becker]

Is he just cutting the "look" into a solid panel, or is he making separate pieces to join into a panel?

He's cutting into the face of solid stock, generally poplar, but I've seen him do other species, too. The real key is that you can vary the width to properly match the project scale and using various cutters, do different widths/patterns/depths for the same reason. It's not for everyone, but Ed's clientèle are all paying for very high-end work and they generally demand the custom work throughout.