Taking the plunge....chuck for bowls?

[Richard Link]

Hi everyone. A very simple question (but perhaps one with a complicated answer). I've been enjoying turning pens and small objects on my mini lathe for a while now but have decided to take the plunge and start bowls. Along those lines, I am in the process of putting together a budget to outfit my humble shop with a larger lathe and the necessary basics for bowl (and perhaps someday hollow vessel) turning. I am planning to purchase a heavy duty lathe (probably a Powermatic 3520B). I like the powermatic since I don't want to have to go bigger later and I'm not prepared to shell out the scratch for one of the premium monsters (i.e. a oneway, robust, etc).
My question relates to the chuck requirements. What would you bowl gurus consider the appropriate chuck to purchase for bowl turning? I'll admit, I'm pretty uninformed at the moment. Seems like some use a 4 jaw chuck while others favor a vacuum chuck, etc. I can see the attraction of the vacuum chuck if I graduate into hollow vessels. Since I'd rather do it right from the beginning, can you give me some guidelines on what I should acquire at the start to attach "stuff" to the lathe? Specifics on brands would be helpful. Much appreciated. Sorry if this is a well worn topic.

Rick

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Richard........I am currently turning on a Jet VS Mini. The inmates here at the turner's forum when they shoved me into the Vortex 18 months ago were smart enough to buy me a SuperNova2 chuck that will fit both a mini and a PM3520B which I hope to own in a few months. I may have to buy an adapter bushing but that's it. The SN2 is a good chuck and has served me well.

[Mike Vickery]

Richard - If I read your post right you are miunderstanding vacuum chucking. Vacuum chucks are usually only used to clean up the bottom after the piece has been turned they are not used for general turning of the bowl.

Get the 4 jaw chuck first and add the Vacuum later if you want. I personally have a oneway talon, but most of the major brands are good.

Also I use 2 different sets of jaws for most of my bowls #2 jaws for stuff up to 12 or 13 inches and #3 tower jaws for anything bigger then that.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Agree with everything Mike just stated!

I also have the talon chuck and use the #2 or #3 jaws for all my bowls. Great chuck - very well made and solid as a rock! Another thing to consider - make sure you get a chuck that uses a key instead of bars. With a key you can tighten the chuck with one hand while holding the bowl blank with the other. Just a little more convenient than juggling over the lathe bed. Looking forward to seeing pictures of what you end up with!

[Dennis Peacock]

Hello Richard,

There is a big difference between chucking for a bowl blank and chucking for finishing off the bottom of a bowl or platter via vacuum chucking.
I have been using the SuperNova chuck for a long time now and have nothing but good experiences with the SN chuck. However, when you get ready for vacuum chucking, you'll need some extra stuff, like a vacuum pump, adapter to hook the vac-pump up to the lathe as well as a vacuum chuck to stick the bowl or platter to the vac-chuck for finishing off the bottom. When chucking either way, standard chuck or vac-chuck, you should always use the tailstock to better secure the piece to the the lathe and save the removal of the tailstock for the final finishing cuts on the bottoms of your forms.

Either way, once you go with a standard chuck, bowl and various form turning will be much easier after your initial learning curve. Once you go with a vac-chuck for finishing off the bottoms of your forms, you'll wonder how you ever got along without one. :D

BTW, welcome to The Vortex. ;)

[Richard Link]

Thanks for the excellent advice. Now I have a better sense as to how to proceed.

[Harvey M. Taylor]

Hi Richard,
what the others said about the vacuum chuck. Dont rule out the VicMark chuck. The dovetail grip makes for a really secure hold. Also there is less dust that gets into the gears because of the way it is made. Sure, a few bucks more but the extra cost will pay for itself in a short while. Enjoy the turning and learning, Max

[Jim Becker]

Great advice in this thread! We all have our preferences relative to chucks....mine is for the OneWay products. I like their jaws better than the smooth or "dovetail" versions. Great hold without making tenons and the required shoulder harder to cut, especially for folks new to turning.

[Richard Link]

Love the creek! Great information. I am now leaning toward the Oneway products, either a Talon or a Stronghold. If I understand correctly, the only disadvantage to the stronghold over the Talon is just weight and size? The price isn't that much different. I would imagine that this is not a significant factor if the item is to be used on a larger lathe (I am considering a Powermatic 3520B at the moment). Is that correct? Any reason to buy the Talon as opposed to the Stronghold if it will be used on a lathe of this size other than price?

I've also been reading a LOT of posts concerning lathe choices of late. I am leaning toward the 3520B and the price seems ok for what you get. Obviously there are a lot of folks out there who swear by the Oneway lathes and I can see the attraction. I don't want to ever buy another lathe (wishful thinking) so I'm giving this decision a lot of thought. If I chose to save for a Oneway 1640, it would postpone my plunge a bit but would it be worth it? I don't really see myself waiting long enough to buy the big Oneway 2436 nor do I anticipate a lot of turning in the >16" size. In comparing the Oneway to the Powermatic, is it like comparing a Masarati to a Corvette? i.e. both go fast, both are nice cars but the Masarati is more expensive, more prestigious, perhaps a bit more hand built, etc.? Or is there some other intangible factor that makes the Oneway just so much more worth it? Is the resale value better? Will I be sniffing after the Oneway 5 years from now once I've put in a lot of hours turning?

Rick

[Mike Vickery]

Richard, I have never used the Stronghold just the Talon. I will say that I have a 20 inch swing on my lathe and even with maxing it out a couple times the Talon has worked fine for me. I you plan to turn really big stuff often and have access to a lot of large wood you might want to consider the stronghold. I think the Talon will meet most woodturners needs. I will tell you a secret after a while you will probably end up with more then one chuck. So you can always get the stronghold later.

[Martin Braun]

One other thing, if you're strapped for cash you can get your four jaw chuck now and for finishing the bottom you can either go the jam chuck or friction chuck route, or you can make a donut chuck out of a spare face plate, some plywood & threaded bar. These are low cost alternatives.

For a vacuum chuck, unless you have a spare vacuum pump sitting around, you're going to start off around $150 and depending on the quality of components you're looking for, it could easily hit $250+.

They don't call it the abyss for nothing. The lathe is only a fraction of the cost ;).

[Ken Fitzgerald]

They don't call it the abyss for nothing. The lathe is only a fraction of the cost ;).

That's the reason I'm considering buying Mustard...balance out the cost of the lathe to the cost of the accessories!:D

[Doug M Jones]

If you want to whet your appetite for bowls, Grizzly has a Vicmark copy for $100 that is a decent chuck. I have a Jet Mini and have turned bowls up to 8 inches with it. Patience is not one of my virtues.

[Brodie Brickey]

Richard,

I have the Oneway Stronghold. Its a very large chuck for a mini. You could just as easily go with a Talon and have the swappable inserts when/if you get your Powermatic. On a mini the Stronghold will continue spinning for quite a while due to its inertia. A Talon won't have as much continued velocity.

The Talon is a sure hold for anything under 16" in diameter. That doesn't mean that you can't hold larger, but its designed for under 16".

If I were to do it over again...I'd seriously look at the Nova line as well as the VicMarc. The main reason is that IF (and I have to stress this since I haven't researched) I can get multiple sized chuck bodies that fit the same jaws I'd be even happier than I am now with the Oneway line.

I have most of the jaws for my Stronghold, but those jaws won't fit a Talon, so when I bought a second chuck I got another Stronghold. Not a problem but something to consider.

For cleaning up the bottom of a bowl, check out the donut chuck (Google "Bill Grumbine" his page has directions), there is also another chuck called a Longworth Chuck (Google it and someone's site will have directions on making one). These homemade chucks work really well for all bowls except natural edge (NE) when the bowl won't sit flat upside down.

[Jonathon Spafford]

I like my talon chuck... if you get too much bigger in size then the Talon you have a lot of chuck in the way and it is hard to get close to the foot and maneuver around in some cases. The Talon can close small and open large enough for most general needs. You can always upgrade jaws for different purposes... but I've never had troubles with the size of the #2 jaws that it came with. The advantage of these chucks is that they are super strong... they have a good tough chuck key and a good tough woodworm screw that won't snap on you like some of the others will! The price is $220 at Craft Supply, but I've seen it down to $199 and you might get it cheaper if you wait for a sale!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Richard,
For cleaning up the bottom of a bowl, check out the donut chuck (Google "Bill Grumbine" his page has directions), there is also another chuck called a Longworth Chuck (Google it and someone's site will have directions on making one). These homemade chucks work really well for all bowls except natural edge (NE) when the bowl won't sit flat upside down.

Brodie,

I use a donut chuck to turn the tenon off my NEs. I use doublesided tape and tape as many thichnesses of 2" rigid foam insulation as necessary to the base of the donut chuck. I turn that foam to make a tapered cylinder of sorts that will fit in side the NE. Then I place the NE on the cylinder; install the rest of the donut chuck and capture the NE and turn away the tenon. It's not that difficult and works well!

[Brodie Brickey]

Brodie,

I use a donut chuck to turn the tenon off my NEs. I use doublesided tape and tape as many thichnesses of 2" rigid foam insulation as necessary to the base of the donut chuck. I turn that foam to make a tapered cylinder of sorts that will fit in side the NE. Then I place the NE on the cylinder; install the rest of the donut chuck and capture the NE and turn away the tenon. It's not that difficult and works well!

Ken,

Thanks for the tip. Never thought about using foam that way.

[Reed Gray]

I have three of the Vicmark chucks, and a PM3520A. One large Vic, and 2 smalls, depending on what I turn and core. I prefer the dove tail jaws as I feel that they grip better than the straight jaws. Oneway now has sliders for their big chuck so that you can use the Vicmark jaws on them.
robo hippy

[Montgomery Scott]

There is an excellent article from Russ Fairfield reviewing several chucks on Wood Central. Check out "Russ' Corner" to find the link. I bought an Axminster 4" chuck for my Rockwell lathe and a Vicmarc 5.5" chuck for my Jet. Although the Oneway is an excellent chuck, I prefer the Vicmarc, though I believe it is really a preference and not a matter of superiority.

[joe greiner]

I also use the Grizzly clone. I got both sets of auxiliary jaws, and thus have a large range of spigot/tenon/socket diameters available. For reasons unknown to me, there's a gap in the full range; probably has something to do with where the attachment holes can be located. This info isn't available in the catalog; learned it by actual measurements.

As stated, the vacuum chuck isn't the only way to finish the bottom. Cole jaws can be attached to the 4-jaw chuck to grip the bowl rim in either compression mode or expansion mode (for undercut rims). As the 4-jaw chuck has limited diameter range, you need to relocate the buttons for substantially different diameters. I've made three Longworth chucks (one was a fubar). The large one extends past my lathe's motor and has a larger minimum diameter; the small one mounts closer to the headstock and misses the motor. Both of these move continuously over their full ranges. Google ["joe greiner" "longworth chuck"] for a blow-by-blow account of my variations, and just ["longworth chuck"] for more general instructions.

For very thin walled bowls, the concentrated load from the buttons is not good. BTDT. For these, I revert to my older technique of mounting a plywood disk on a faceplate. I turn a groove to mate with the bowl rim, and attach the bowl to the assemblage with duct tape. The downside of this is that rim diameters are seldom identical, and you need to cut a new groove for each bowl; use a new disk when you run out of places for the groove. The tape is also good insurance for the Longworth or Cole. Might not be a bad idea for the vacuum chuck, too. Filament tape is also good, but more expensive.

A donut chuck can be made with several disks with different size openings for different ranges of bowl diameter. Only need one disk with no hole, mounted on a face plate. The donut chuck is more robust than the others, and you may get away with more aggressive cutting. Stiil and all, lighter cuts are advisable, if only to avoid making funnels. A depressed center provides a better foot than a flat bottom, to reduce wobbling on the tabletop or whatever.

For NE bowls, you could probably use any of the aforementioned tools, with wedges at the shallower portions to make the bottom perpendicular to the lathe axis; this would most likely be best with the faceplate and plywood, or the donut chuck, with copious amounts of duct tape to keep everything together. (Ken's foam accessory might be better, though - Thanks, Ken). I haven't made any NE bowls, so take this suggestion with a grain of salt.

Joe

[Richard Link]

Thanks everyone for such great information. Based on you're recommendations and reading some other sources (including the Russ article), I went ahead and bought a Powermatic 3520B and a Oneway Stronghold yesterday. Very excited to get started although I'm sure I'll be back here asking beginner questions before long. I also signed up for a day long bowl turning class and bought a few books to get started. Now I just need to figure out how the heck I am going to get this 600 lb monster out of the box and assembled without a crane in the garage when it is delivered....

Thanks again.

Rick

[Patrick Taylor]

Now I just need to figure out how the heck I am going to get this 600 lb monster out of the box and assembled without a crane in the garage when it is delivered....
Thanks again.
Rick

Way to go! You'll be very happy.

While I can not link to other forums, I strongly suggest you do the following google search: ;)
http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&q=%22Powermatic+3520+Tips%2C+Reviews%2C+Sources%2C +Links%22+site%3Awoodturner.org&btnG=Google+Search

[Mike Vickery]

Dang Richard you really are jumping in! Nice gloat.

Nothing in your profile says what are you live in but if you have a local turning club many have video libraries that you can check out videos and books. Usually that alone is worth the price of membership. I find the videos to be of more use than the books.
You might even have a creeker near you that would be willing to give you a couple pointers for free. I know I wish I would have had a mentor when I started out. I think it would have brought down the learning curve quite a bit.

[Patrick Taylor]

You might even have a creeker near you that would be willing to give you a couple pointers for free. I know I wish I would have had a mentor when I started out. I think it would have brought down the learning curve quite a bit.

Ditto. I had/have a great mentor that walked me through the process of turning a bowl with good form and attention to the right details. It was priceless. I only wish I had more time now to get together with him again.

[TYLER WOOD]

Yes, apprentiship/mentoring is sooooooo helpful. Luckily I had Mike in town for me. Being 45 minutes from a large town, 300 miles from a large city, made it impossible for me to take classes. He has helped me learn the pro and cons of doing things. Also showing different techniques. If you can find a club and find someone willing to mentor it will be a boon to your learning curve.