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Tim Brooks
08-13-2007, 3:50 PM
This is a follow up to question two of this post:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=61844 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=61844)

I have a 20 amp GFCI circuit that keeps tripping. The GFCI is in the breaker not the receptacle and the only thing on while turning is the lathe. The tripping is now happening more and more frequently. It only seems to be tripping, however, after I have been turning for a little while say, 30 mins. or so. I am beginning to think the lathe (Jet Mini) is surging which is causing the circuit to trip. Is there any way to test to see if this is the case? Yesterday, I put very little pressure on the piece that was turning (placing my hand on the piece to check for smoothness) and the circuit would trip.

Suggestions, please!

Mark Rios
08-13-2007, 3:57 PM
Why is the circuit on a GFCI? Is the receptacle that your lathe is on part of a kitchen or bath circuit? If not, change out the breaker. Just don't stand in a tub of water while turning. :D GFCI's aren't really good for high load applications from what I've found.

Tim Brooks
08-13-2007, 4:05 PM
Why is the circuit on a GFCI? Is the receptacle that your lathe is on part of a kitchen or bath circuit? If not, change out the breaker. Just don't stand in a tub of water while turning. :D GFCI's aren't really good for high load applications from what I've found.

The bathroom receptacles are powered by the same circuit as the receptacles in the garage. I am not sure why... I was hoping it was more a "code" requirement than an inept electrician hired by the builder... :eek:

I suppose it would be easier to simply run another circuit, huh.

Pat Germain
08-13-2007, 6:08 PM
I know in my area, GFCIs are required in the garage. This can be at the breaker or the receptacle.

GFCI's are designed with planned obsolescence. After so many hours of use, they will have trouble staying reset. Then they won't reset at all. This simply means they must be replaced. Unless your GFCI breaker is new, you should replace it with a new GFCI breaker. They are not really cheap, but not too expensive either: usually under $50. Dollars to doughnuts, the new breaker will work fine. If it doesn't, then you know you have other issues.

Mark Rios
08-13-2007, 6:58 PM
I know in my area, GFCIs are required in the garage. This can be at the breaker or the receptacle.

GFCI's are designed with planned obsolescence. After so many hours of use, they will have trouble staying reset. Then they won't reset at all. This simply means they must be replaced. Unless your GFCI breaker is new, you should replace it with a new GFCI breaker. They are not really cheap, but not too expensive either: usually under $50. Dollars to doughnuts, the new breaker will work fine. If it doesn't, then you know you have other issues.



Pat, I agree with you for the most part but I'd have to add an exception.

I've used some larger amp draw tools on brand new GFCI's they will still trip the breaker. And one of my electric 110v compressors simply will not run on a GFCI receptacle.

And your right Pat, at least here in CA as well, the garage recepts must be GFCI protected. They don't figure on too much of a draw for bathroom usage so they throw the garage and the baths on the same circuit. I guess for the average homeowner it would be ok for just running drills, a fan or some other relatively small amp draw appliance but for the larger woodworking tools it kind of stretches it a bit. BTW, the garage door opener is usually on that same circuit. Other times they will run the garage door recept off of a light circuit, maybe exterior lights, and then the lights dim when the door is operated. :rolleyes:

And I agree on replacing the GFCI breaker in question. If it's tripped more than a couple of times then it's already gotten pretty weak and will continue to trip.

A dedicated circuit for the lathe, and maybe a couple of other tools :D , might save some money in the long run buy not having to continue to replace the GFCI breakers.

jmo

Pat Germain
08-13-2007, 9:43 PM
A dedicated circuit for the lathe, and maybe a couple of other tools :D , might save some money in the long run buy not having to continue to replace the GFCI breakers.

jmo

That's good advice, Mark.

Tim Brooks
08-14-2007, 8:45 AM
Thanks so much for the input guys...

I think I am going to run a completely separate circuit to that side of my garage. I can't lose by doing so. I suppose I must add another GFCI breaker to stay in line with code right?

The house was constructed in 2001 but the way the electrician wired the house there is no method to the madness. I guess I'd drive contractors crazy with my systematic way of doing things if I worked for them... :D

Jim Becker
08-14-2007, 10:39 AM
Tim, I don't believe it's uncommon for a garage outlet to be on the same line with a bathroom in many cases since said outlet in the garage is generally considered a "convenience"...and covering it all with one GFCI cuts cost during construction. My previous home was done that way, in fact. There is likely more "method" to the installation than most of us will realize when you consider how common the practice is!

When we decide to use our garage for purposes other than storage...such as a shop...we need to put appropriate power in place to handle it. It's no longer a "convenience" outlet situation.

Tim Brooks
08-14-2007, 11:01 AM
Tim, I don't believe it's uncommon for a garage outlet to be on the same line with a bathroom in many cases since said outlet in the garage is generally considered a "convenience"...and covering it all with one GFCI cuts cost during construction. My previous home was done that way, in fact. There is likely more "method" to the installation than most of us will realize when you consider how common the practice is!

When we decide to use our garage for purposes other than storage...such as a shop...we need to put appropriate power in place to handle it. It's no longer a "convenience" outlet situation.

Point well taken.

Thanks!

Dennis Peacock
08-14-2007, 11:31 AM
Tim,

If I remember correctly, from way back in my wire pulling days....at least 1 plug in the garage had to be GFCI, any additional outlets could be ran on standard circuit.
You could check with your local inspection office to see what the local rules allow.

Gary Muto
08-14-2007, 11:52 AM
My garage has one GFCI plug but the others are ganged (daisy chained) after that so that all garage plugs are ground fault protected. If a ground fault is detected all of the plugs will be disconnected.

Tim Brooks
08-14-2007, 12:07 PM
They put two plugs on the circuit with the bathrooms and one plug on the circuit with the kitchen. The lathe is plugged into the outlet that is on the circuit with the bathrooms. I would have thought they would be daisy chained too but that was certainly not the case. I thought about connecting it to the other outlet to see if the same thing happens. I might have a chance tonight to try that.

Dennis Peacock
08-14-2007, 12:14 PM
They put two plugs on the circuit with the bathrooms and one plug on the circuit with the kitchen. The lathe is plugged into the outlet that is on the circuit with the bathrooms. I would have thought they would be daisy chained too but that was certainly not the case. I thought about connecting it to the other outlet to see if the same thing happens. I might have a chance tonight to try that.

Our local code required us to put the kitches on 2 seperate circuits with half the outlets on 1 circuit and the remaining half on the 2nd circuit. These outlets were in fact on their own circuits. The GFCI circuit that was commonly ran was, from the panel to a garage plug, then catch the two outside waterproof outlets, and finally the two bathrooms. This was the entire GFCI circuit and I've ran about 427 of them during my days of working as an electrician.

I'm sure the code has changed as my wire pulling days were in the very early 1980's. It's always a good idea to check with your local codes just to be on the safe side.

Tim Brooks
08-14-2007, 12:27 PM
Our local code required us to put the kitches on 2 seperate circuits with half the outlets on 1 circuit and the remaining half on the 2nd circuit. These outlets were in fact on their own circuits. The GFCI circuit that was commonly ran was, from the panel to a garage plug, then catch the two outside waterproof outlets, and finally the two bathrooms. This was the entire GFCI circuit and I've ran about 427 of them during my days of working as an electrician.

I'm sure the code has changed as my wire pulling days were in the very early 1980's. It's always a good idea to check with your local codes just to be on the safe side.

Oh yeah, I forgot about the waterproof outlets. I believe they are on the same circuit as the bathrooms...

I think I am going to find a good electrician (in my circle of friends) I can bouce questions off before I purchase or install anything. As stated previously, I am dumb as a tree when it comes to electrcity.

Rob Russell
08-14-2007, 1:23 PM
My understanding of the current NEC (local code may vary) is that:

All Bathroom and Garage 120v, 15 and 20-amp receptacle must be on a GFI-protected (exception - dedicated-purpose receptacles for things like appliances). [210.8(A)]
Bathroom circuits may only serve the bathroom(s). [210.11(C)(3)]A lower cost way of GFI protecting receptacles is to insert a GFI-receptacle at the front of the circuit and let that receptacle protect everything down-circuit. GFI receptacles are generally less costly than GFI breakers.

James Rambo
08-14-2007, 6:43 PM
All garage receptacles are to be on a GFCI by National Electrical Code (NEC). They can be on the same circuit or multiple circuits. The garage door opener may be on the circuit but ahead of the GFCI outlet ( the jurisdictions can and do change this).someconties require the gdo to be on a 20 amp dedicated circuit Small Appliance circuit. Now a days the bathroom is on a GFCI circuit but on their own 20 amp circuit. In the garage if they are a dedicated outlet (a single outlet in the box, not a duplex, one above the other) they are allowed to be non GFCI protected, this is an exception to the NEC.

Russ Filtz
08-15-2007, 9:06 AM
In the garage if they are a dedicated outlet (a single outlet in the box, not a duplex, one above the other) they are allowed to be non GFCI protected, this is an exception to the NEC.

I'm guessing this comes in handy when you don't want the chest freezer or fridge in your garage on a GFCI!

Jim Becker
08-15-2007, 10:52 AM
I'm guessing this comes in handy when you don't want the chest freezer or fridge in your garage on a GFCI!

I suspect you're correct on this, Russ...something that is essentially plugged in all the time would warrant the non-GFCI circuit. But those outlets that J. Homeowner would hit with the hedge clippers right after a rainstorm...well... ;)