Dowelmax projects

[simo sentissi]

Hello there

I was wondering if there are dowelmax owners in here -please let me know what you think of it since I want to make sure it is worth the price- and if there are any users projects pictures out there.

I use dowels quite a bit along with M&T and want to know if I can speed up the process as well as if I can use the dowelling jig for most joints (if I can use many dowels in one joint for more sturdiness than using the usual 2 dowels)

anybody wanna sell there's ?

Thanks

[Bill Huber]

There has been a few threads on the DowelMax in the past, you may want to do a search on DowelMax and get more info.

I have one and just love it, I have not got to the point were I am doing M&T yet so the DM is a really great help to me.
I have not done any really nice project with it yet but the things I have done have just worked out great.
I built 3 shop cabinets and all the fronts are done with the DM, the doors on the one cabinet were done with it.
My table saw stand was built by my Dad in 1953 and a few weeks ago one of the legs just split right down the middle so I need to make another one in a hurry. I built it with all 2x4s, DM and glue. There is not a nail or a screw in the stand anywhere. I used 80 dowels total and the DowelMax did just an outstanding job putting them in.

So I guess if you ask me the question would you buy it again, the answer would be YES.


2 of the shop cabinets
http://www.pbase.com/wlhuber/image/80076089

The other shop cabinet
http://www.pbase.com/wlhuber/image/81503098


69881 69882

[Art Mann]

I am a huge Dowelmax fan. It does everything the webpage says it will do and is almost as easy as the guy makes it look in the videos. (Go to the website and watch them if you haven't already or order the free DVD). I have used dowel construction for many years but the Dowelmax makes them a pleasure to use. I have just about quit using M&T joints because multiple dowels are strong enough for most applications and are much easier to do. About the only alternative I know of that is comparable to the Dowelmax in terms of strength and convenience is the Festool Domino and it is even more expensive.

The Dowelmax was certainly worth the price to me.

[simo sentissi]

I would definitely like to see more projects with it.
I am now considering it, but wow man: US$270 !!! that puts my planer purchase way away....

[simo sentissi]

Hello there

is there any thoughts about the type of dowels that are better than others in certain woods ?
I am looking at dowels that are already pre-glued and others that aren't but fluted or spirally traced..... I always used straight dowel sticks but not fluted or pre-glued....

again anybody selling their dowelmax ?

Thanks

[Jim Becker]

In the very rare situation that I employ dowels, they are always the fluted type so the the glue has a place to go during "wet" insertion...

[Andrew Williams]

I highly recommend the dowelmax. I have made a series of rolling cabinets using it, including the planer stand below, albeit with dovetail drawers...

http://sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=60832&d=1174494225

Also this butcher block station was joined with Dowelmax. By the way, the dowels that are recommended for use with the Dowelmax are not just fluted, they are compressed. This is essential to get the full strength of the joint. They expand (like biscuits) on contact with glue or water and lock the joint.

[Bill Huber]

Hello there

is there any thoughts about the type of dowels that are better than others in certain woods ?
I am looking at dowels that are already pre-glued and others that aren't but fluted or spirally traced..... I always used straight dowel sticks but not fluted or pre-glued....

again anybody selling their dowelmax ?

Thanks

I use the fluted type, they have some much more gluing suffice and I can tell they have been glued easier. I put the glue in the dowel hole and then push the dowel in the hole. The glue will come out around the flutes and now I know the dowel is well covered in glue.
I do use the same dowels for any type of wood I am using.
I get all of mine from HD, they work very well.

[simo sentissi]

How many dowels did you use per join ?
are the 1/4" attachments/dowels worth to try on a face frame ?

Thanks

[Bill Huber]

How many dowels did you use per join ?
are the 1/4" attachments/dowels worth to try on a face frame ?

Thanks

I am not sure if you are addressing me or Andrew so I will give you my answer.

In the face frames I use 3/4 inch wood and then used 3/8 inch dowels, 2 dowels per joint.
On the saw stand I use 5, 3/8 inch dowels per joint.
I have the 1/4 setup for the dowelmax but have not used it as of yet. I do plan on making some smaller things with 1/2 wood in the near future that I will be using it on.

[Art Mann]

Hello there

is there any thoughts about the type of dowels that are better than others in certain woods ?
I am looking at dowels that are already pre-glued and others that aren't but fluted or spirally traced..... I always used straight dowel sticks but not fluted or pre-glued....

again anybody selling their dowelmax ?

Thanks

I use the Dowelmax brand of dowels exclusively. These pieces aren't just sections of dowel rod that have grooves cut in them. The dowels are cut larger than 3/8" and are compressed into shape. When you put glue onto the dowels they eventually swell up a little bit. This design prevents the dowels from shrinking and coming loose due to changes in temperature and humidity. Don't scrimp on the dowels.

[Bill Huber]

I use the Dowelmax brand of dowels exclusively. These pieces aren't just sections of dowel rod that have grooves cut in them. The dowels are cut larger than 3/8" and are compressed into shape. When you put glue onto the dowels they eventually swell up a little bit. This design prevents the dowels from shrinking and coming loose due to changes in temperature and humidity. Don't scrimp on the dowels.

They are not Dowelmax brand, they are Laurier Wood Craft and I do agree they are very good dowels. http://www.laurierwoodcraft.com

[Andrew Williams]

The short answer on dowel number is I use as many as the width of the wood will allow, barring any movement issues.

In the case of the apron on the butcher block, that ended up being about 6-7 dowels each joint. With the recommendation from the inventor of Dowelmax, I have changed dimensions slightly to allow for a better fit for the Dowelmax, such as choosing 2 1/4 width instead of 2", which allows 3 dowels per joint instead of just 2.

[Mack Cameron]

[quote]They are not Dowelmax brand, they are Laurier Wood Craft and I do agree they are very good dowels. http://www.laurierwoodcraft.com Laurier does not sell to the retail trade, but they can be purchased from LV.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32732&cat=1,250,43217,43228

[Bill Huber]

[quote=Bill Huber;639822] Laurier does not sell to the retail trade, but they can be purchased from LV.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32732&cat=1,250,43217,43228


Thanks Mack, I was wanting another source for them. I have used the ones from HD but as been stated the Lauriers are very good.

[Matt Lentzner]

I have a book that says that dowels don't last. Essentially, they get out of round over time because they shrink more in one axis and than the other - an oval peg in a round hole. The author observes that whenever you see a piece of furniture that is falling apart (chairs especially) it is joined with dowels. That has been my experience also.

Can anyone speak to this issue? I'm very interested in the dowelmax, but I'm concerned about the longevity of the joint.

Thanks,

Matt

[Bill Huber]

I have a book that says that dowels don't last. Essentially, they get out of round over time because they shrink more in one axis and than the other - an oval peg in a round hole. The author observes that whenever you see a piece of furniture that is falling apart (chairs especially) it is joined with dowels. That has been my experience also.

Can anyone speak to this issue? I'm very interested in the dowelmax, but I'm concerned about the longevity of the joint.

Thanks,

Matt

I would like to know more on this also.

I do know that my Dad made a little table about 55 years ago for me and I have used it as a step stool, a TV stand, a night stand, a sewing machine table and the corner of many a fort as a kid and it is still going strong.
There are no screws or nails in it and it was all done with dowels and glue.
It was stored in and attic for about 10 years, it was stored in the garage for a few years and been move all over the place in the last 40 years.

But who is to say that sometime in the next 50 years it starts to come apart.

[Greg Funk]

I have a book that says that dowels don't last. Essentially, they get out of round over time because they shrink more in one axis and than the other - an oval peg in a round hole. The author observes that whenever you see a piece of furniture that is falling apart (chairs especially) it is joined with dowels. That has been my experience also.

Can anyone speak to this issue? I'm very interested in the dowelmax, but I'm concerned about the longevity of the joint.

Thanks,

Matt
According to recent tests it seems traditional M&T joints are at least twice as strong as dowels or loose tenons so if you have a critical joint like a chair rail it would be wise to use M&T construction. However, there are many joints where dowels and other loose tenons are more than adequate.

Regarding old chairs with dowel joints failing: I suspect they were not using modern glues and that this may also contribute to premature failure.

Greg

[Art Mann]

I have a book that says that dowels don't last. Essentially, they get out of round over time because they shrink more in one axis and than the other - an oval peg in a round hole. The author observes that whenever you see a piece of furniture that is falling apart (chairs especially) it is joined with dowels. That has been my experience also.

Can anyone speak to this issue? I'm very interested in the dowelmax, but I'm concerned about the longevity of the joint.

Thanks,

Matt

I have read that too. That is one reason why I use the Dowelmax (Laurier) dowels. They are compressed into size rather than just machined to size. Supposedly, they will not shrink to a size smaller than the hole in any dimension.

My preferred method for joinery has been dowels for 30 years. I have built many pieces of furniture that were made this way and none have failed yet. Based on that, I have to wonder just how true the concept that dowels shrink and fail is. In reality, dowels are just small round loose tenons. I tend to believe that the dowel joints in old pieces failed due to bad fit and inferior glue rather than just shrinkage.

[simo sentissi]

I have to agree that M&T are a little stronger -or at least feels to me- but I never put 5 dowel in joint either.

now I am wondering if it is not worth to stop doing the mortise by hand and buy a mortising machine for about the same price as the dowelmax including the bits.... I am in limbo here.
I have a little jig for my router for mortising but I always have to square them after and it seems to me I can do the whole thing faster sometimes with a chisel -lot of practice and good chisel-

maybe I could get this gizmo and have a shot at it: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?Offerings_ID=17847

I have been using the gorilla glue as well as the white wood glue from HD but I am a rookie too... and my new furniture pieces are less than 2 years old...? what do you guys use ?

[Art Mann]

I have to agree that M&T are a little stronger -or at least feels to me- but I never put 5 dowel in joint either.

now I am wondering if it is not worth to stop doing the mortise by hand and buy a mortising machine for about the same price as the dowelmax including the bits.... I am in limbo here.

Even compared to a mortise machine, I think dowels are faster to use. I have a nice shop built mortising jig for my router and it makes the job fairly fast. You still have to cut the tenons somehow and that takes time as well.

I have a little jig for my router for mortising but I always have to square them after and it seems to me I can do the whole thing faster sometimes with a chisel -lot of practice and good chisel-

I use a router to cut mortises also, but I don't square the corners. I find it quicker to round the edges of the tenon with a sharp chisel instead.

maybe I could get this gizmo and have a shot at it: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?Offerings_ID=17847

I don't like the type of jig that centers the router bit on the workpiece. I prefer to cut mottises and tenons referenced to the front facing surface instead. That way, even if your workpieces aren't exactly the same thickness, you only have to sand or plane down the back side of the joint to flush.

By the way, the Dowelmax references the front face of the workpiece rather than centering the hole as well.

I have been using the gorilla glue as well as the white wood glue from HD but I am a rookie too... and my new furniture pieces are less than 2 years old...? what do you guys use ?

A recent article in Fine Woodworking (IIRC) tested various types of glue and concluded that PVA (Titebond) type wood glues are stronger than polyurethane (Gorilla glue) based materials. I have some reservations about their methodology. I don't like to deal with polyurethane because of the foaming. If I need a longer open time, I have used white glue and Weldwood and both work ok.


:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

[simo sentissi]

Thanks for the reply !
I guess I still need to do more thinking...

[Robert Mayer]

I bought a dowelmax not too long ago, probably the only used one ever sold. I ran across it on ebay. It was the best purchase I have made.

I used it recently on my fish tank stand. Its not done yet, but nearly every piece of it was assembled using 2" dowels. Its going to hold a 125 gallon tank. I have gotten pretty creative with using dowels at angles with it too. At this point in the project I used over 120 dowels. Its way overkill to hold this tank, but i want it to be done right.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-2/1246550/DSCN1807.JPG

[Art Mann]

I bought a dowelmax not too long ago, probably the only used one ever sold..


That kinda tells you something about what the people who own it think about it, doesn't it?

[Matt P]

In the very rare situation that I employ dowels, they are always the fluted type so the the glue has a place to go during "wet" insertion...

Jim,
Why don't you use dowels more frequently?
Matt