We need a new dishwasher

[Allen Bookout]

It is time for a new diswasher. We have an older KitchenAid that never cleaned worth a flip so am looking for something better. After a quick search around the internet I see some reports that Bosch make the "Best Diswasher" and the "Best Buy Diswasher" and that Whirlpool makes the "Best Budget Diswasher". I know that Whirlpool makes the KitchenAid so I am a little leary. I really like the few Bosch tools that I have but do not know if this would translate to quality in a dishwasher. Anyone have any personal experience with these products or recommendations?

[Jeffrey Makiel]

I believe that most dishwashers under $500 are questionable these days. They seem to have a very definitive life span just beyond the warranty. This opinion comes from my own personal experience, and experience of folks around me. I don't have any brand loyalty.

I once installed a Bosch dishwasher. It appeared to be the best dishwasher of all the other domestic brands I've installed or used. It was also twice the price of the norm. However, I've mostly owned or installed the less than $500 ones. The last two machines I installed (including my own), required warranty work upon first start up.

A couple of thoughts... A machine that has three water wands is better than two wands for improved cleaning. A machine that has a built-in disposer (commutator) is more convenient although I don't generally dispose of solids via my sewer system. And, in general, the quieter the machine, the better quality it usually has.

As far as Whirlpool, they seem to own everyone else these days as well as make machines for other folks like Sears Kenmore. Everything in these middle to low end machines screams: 'plastic'. Slightly higher level machines often just add more electronic gizmos (sanitization, sleep timer, etc.), and perhaps add a sheet of stainless steel on the front, but I think they use the same general guts. Unlike machines 15 years ago, the bodies easily rack until they are installed.

Happy hunting...Jeff :)

[mark page]

Maytag, Maytag, Maytag, if possible in your area. Just get the highest quality of the "no frills" design. No-one needs the digital stuff--just the highest end before the "frills" game begins. I have all Maytag equip and all have lasted 20 yrs plus. Just my .02 worth, maybe I'm lucky.

[K. L. McReynolds]

I heartily recommend the Bosch. I never knew Bosch made dishwashers until I won one in a contest sponsored by Vermont American. We had just bought a GE dishwasher and I sold it to install the Bosch.

Stainless steel interior, uses less soap and rinse conditioner but does a super job and is so quiet i almost cannot hear it. Ok, I can't hear anyway---but everyone else says it is really quiet.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Mark,
Be careful. Maytag 20 years ago is not Maytag today. They've lowered their quality quite a bit. I believe Whirlpool has recently acquired them, or are trying to, as to try to resurrect their name. Apparently, the Maytag repairman is no longer on TV because he's quite busy.

Three of my most recent appliances are Maytag: refrigerator, dishwasher and clothswasher. All broke either upon start up or within 2 years...twice on one of them (the refrigerator). All middle-of-the-road appliances.
-Jeff :)

[Joe Mioux]

Maytag:

In our new house, that we purchased in 2003, the previous owners built this house and installed a Kitchen Aid dishwasher in 1994.

Earlier this Spring, our Kitchen Aid needed new rollers for the lower shelf that was going cost $16 per set. The dishwasher was 13 years old and it never washed the plates, utensils etc properly. We debated and finally decided to buy a new one. With shipping and handling the cost was over $90. hmm. This was a dilemma. After some discussion we decided to buy a new dishwasher.

Now backtrack, to 2001 and we are living in our old house. The old house was built in 1979 and had a Frigidaire dishwasher. That dishwasher didn't work well either. In 2001, we went to a family owned Maytag dealer and bought a good quality mid to upper middle of the road dishwasher. $600 range - installed.

LOML love it! It worked the way a dishwasher should operate. Throw dirty plates in and they get clean without pre-rinsing or pre-scrubbing.

Forward to 2003, we move into the new house and the first thing Anna comments on is "I wish I had my old dishwasher! This one, the KitchenAid is awful!!"

Well back to 2007, we went looking at the Aplliance Borgs and saw the whole spectrum of cheap machines to the high-end machines.

We called the family Maytag store where we previously purchased the original Maytag and the lady directs us to the newer version of the dishwasher that we had purchased in 2001. She actually tried to sell us the model below the one we purchased previously because she said the only difference was that the upper shelf moved up and down. There was one other feature on the outside, but I can't remember what that is. The difference in price was $100. Anna wanted the better one of the two and that is what we got.

Anna is happy with the dishwasher. However, there is a small problem with the dishes getting dry, but our family owned appliance dealer says he will fix that problem.

So, take this for what it is worth. We bought two Maytag dishwashers in last 6 years and we like them.

Joe

[Greg Funk]

I can't count how many times I've opened our Bosch dishwasher while it was running and gotten splashed. Very quiet and highly recommended.

Greg

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Maytag for a lot of years sold only what I consider "top line' products. In the last couple of years they have increased their product lines with what I call "less expensive" models. 2 years ago we bought a new washer and dryer......Not the top of the line but not the bottom either. They have worked well.

[Jim Young]

I replaced my leaky noisy non cleaning GE washer with a Bosch. Comparing the two to hand planes the GE would be the Harbor Freight China plane and the Bosch would be the LN.

[Jim Becker]

Bosch is well known for top quality dishwashers...Jim Young's analogy is pretty darn close to reality.

We went with the Fisher-Paykel dishdrawers when I did the kitchen renovation a few years ago. They are wonderful, although on the high end price-wise. Two separate dishwashers in the space of one normal one is great for different types of loads or running more frequent loads. And its motor technology is amazing. There are several other options in this type of machine now, too, including from Kitchenaid.

[Bob Marino]

We also bought the Fisher-Paykel dw a couple of years back. Mostly for the 2 drawer feature. Works well. In the Consumer Reports rating, however, the FP came in about last in the reliablity area though. No problems so far, but a little disconcerting nonethe less.

Bob

[Tim Morton]

Miele seems to be a favorite around these parts...we went with close to the top of the line maytag 7 years ago and it cleans well and is very quiet...BUT...the cycle is 2 hours and IMO its made from cheap parts.

[David G Baker]

Maytag, Maytag, Maytag, if possible in your area. Just get the highest quality of the "no frills" design. No-one needs the digital stuff--just the highest end before the "frills" game begins. I have all Maytag equip and all have lasted 20 yrs plus. Just my .02 worth, maybe I'm lucky.
Mark,
Any idea who owns Maytag? The original Maytag is gone and the new owners aren't what the original Maytag once was. Probably purchased by Whirlpool like everything else.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

David ....I just went to the Maytag website.....It indicates that Whirlpool is their parent company.

[Gary Keedwell]

This Old House did a show where they visited the Bosch factory that makes dishwashers. Very impressive. They went to this section that had all kinds of dirty dishes with every possible food stains and showed how they tested the washers. Had me convinced.;) :)

Gary K.

[mark page]

Guess I could be more specific. The first set of Maytag washer, dryer, refrig, and dishwasher did not last ME 20 yrs. The ex has them and are still in force after 20 years.:D The second set of four I've had for 6 years and still going in force. Don't know who owns them now, but if made the same I would buy again.

[Joe Mioux]

We too looked at Fischer Pakal, Bosch etc....and we didn't have a real budget. If Anna wanted it, we would buy it.

Still went with Maytag because there won't be any BS if something needs fixing in the future. Personally, I would rather deal with a husband/wife dealership that can handle problems and make decisions right then and there. In other words, not having to deal with some CS drone from a major appliance chain.

Joe

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I got a Meile and it is the SHIZZ.

[Allen Bookout]

Thanks for the information everyone. It seems like that Bosch would be the way to go in the mid price range due to quality at the present time. I see that Lowe's even handles some of the Bosch models. I will continue to check here in case there is additional information.

I like dealing with a local small business myself but not any real good dealerships around here that I know of.

Allen

[David G Baker]

David ....I just went to the Maytag website.....It indicates that Whirlpool is their parent company.
Ken,
I wondered about that. I have some current Maytag appliances and so far they have held up okay. Growing up there were 7 kids and two adults in our household, we had a very basic Maytag washing machine that lasted for 20 years and was still working when we got rid of it. Bet the ones I have now won't last that long with just two adults using them.

[Bryan Rocker]

I wouldn't rule out a good Kitchen Aide. After looking at all the dishwashers in my target range, the kitchen aide with the stainless interior has proved to be extremely quiet and washes like a champ. I looked at the bosches and the looked good but expensive, I decided that no matter which brand I bought the extremely hard water my well produces would wear out all comers before their time. Only time will tell if it was the right choice. I have been running it for over a year with no problems at all.

[Frank Hagan]

We just bought a Maytag DB6000AWW at $500, and I would not recommend it. It has some good features. We like the silverware rack in the door, as it frees up room in the lower rack. And it is quiet. But that silverware rack pops open occasionally when you close the door, with a cascade of silverware down under the lower rack to lodge against the heating element (which I see as a potential failure mode in the future). I'll wire the damn thing shut with monel wire when I get it from the boat.

And don't believe the stuff about not having to rinse the plates off first. Heavily soiled dishes not only don't get clean, but you end up with food particles on every other dish in the dishwasher, requiring you to re-wash the entire batch. So we are back to rinsing the plates nearly clean. Even then, we have to re-set the front panel controls with each load because your settings are not "sticky" ... it reverts to the standard, "energy saving" mode. So we have to push the "pots and pans" button as well as the "sani-rinse" buttons with each load. The dishes then come out clean, and it is quiet. But it is not the level of quality we expected.

Our friends and neighbors who have done the same thing have all been unhappy with their Kitchenaid, Kenmore, Whirlpool or Maytag dishwashers. The only people I know who have been happy with the appliances have been the Bosch purchasers ... but they spent quite a bit more than I did. I'm thinking that noise and energy savings have come at the expense of effective washing with most of the models now, but Bosch gets around that by not having a grinder/disposal in the machine, so they can have much more water noise and maintain a quiet profile.

Maytag was acquired by Whirlpool in 2006, so the last 'warranty accural' numbers you can get are from late 2005. And Warranty Week reports Maytag as one of the highest at over 3% of sales set aside to service warranties. Whirlpool was second highest at over 2.5% (see the story at http://www.warrantyweek.com/archive/ww20051122.html )

[Gary Keedwell]

About ten years and two houses ago, we purchased an Asko and it was nice and quiet and cleaned dishes good.
Gary K.:)

[Al Willits]

Whirlpool indeed owns Maytag now.
Also the old 2 drive belt Maytag washer is not todays washer, the newer style (single belt) is much cheaper made than the old reliable maytag of years gone by.

Unless you have a Miele/Asko or any of the euro brand dealer next door to ya, stay away from them, they are high priced and many service company's do not have parts or training on them.

Much of the consumer complaints on washabilty,we see are consumers not reading the manual with the dishwasher, running the hot water in the sink before running the dishwasher will cure many of the problems customers have, old soap, wrong or poor quality of soap, hardness of water, whether the soap is powdered or liquid all make or can make a difference.

Dishwashers quiet so it must be good?
Nope, just insulation for the most part, take that $2000 Meile and remove the insulation from around it and you'll have your basic noisy dishwasher for the most part.

BTW your basic Kitchen-aid/Whirlpool will wash just as well as the euro models at half the price.
Most of the techs here where I work like either the Bosch or Whirlpool line.

Another thought when buying a dishwasher, is how it loads.
The Fisher Paykel dish drawers (whirlpools making a comparable unit now also) may work for some, but the limited height may cause problems for larger items, also the way it loads and racks may or may not work for the dishes you have, have whoever uses it the most look and see how it loads and whether it'll work for them.

Personally I'd take things like consumer reports and use them with a grain of salt.

Just a thought.

Al

[Jim Becker]

Another thought when buying a dishwasher, is how it loads. The Fisher Paykel dish drawers (whirlpools making a comparable unit now also) may work for some, but the limited height may cause problems for larger items, also the way it loads and racks may or may not work for the dishes you have, have whoever uses it the most look and see how it loads and whether it'll work for them.

Very true, although the only thing we haven't been able to fit in them are the 14" "chargers" that we very rarely use except for a special dinner for guests. We've actually found that having two drawers means we can more easily keep up with the nature of little girls and the number of cups and other things they go through in a day...one drawer a day pretty much is normal for us and it uses less water and less power than a typical full-format dishwasher.

Now, if I would have had the space to do it, I really would have liked to have done two separate single dish-drawer setups with both in the "high" position. That's really nice because it eliminates the bending over to load/unload. Unfortunately, our kitchen wouldn't accommodate that.

[Allen Bookout]

More really good information rolls in. Thanks!

I trust the information on the woodworker forums so much more than most other places due to the quality and expertise of the people involved.

[Greg Cole]

Anyone know anything about Jenn Air DW's? I know their other appliances are prety much well liked by those I know that own them, just never seen-heard of Jenn Air DW's....
I am most likely going to try to buy a new DW this week too.

Thanks,

Greg

[Matt Meiser]

Maytag is definetly not what it was even a few years ago. My parents older Maytag washer is getting on in years and will probably need to be replaced soon. The repairman who came out to fix it last time said their calls on new Maytag stuff have risen dramatically and they are recommending other brands now. This is a local appliance/furniture place my parents have dealt with for years and I don't doubt them.

[Glenn Clabo]

We've had a Bosch for about 5 years and love it. We never rinse the dishes off...and it's extremely quite.

[Al Willits]

We've had a Bosch for about 5 years and love it. We never rinse the dishes off...and it's extremely quite.


Many of the newer models have what some call a turbidity (sp?) sensor and rinsing the dishes off does more harm than good, the sensor see's little foodstuff in the water and shortens the cycle.

Jenn air is maytag, kinda like Kitchenaid and whirlpool


Al

[Glenn Clabo]

Al,
Bingo! Thanks. It also explains the different wash time indication...while on the same setting. I mentioned this to my wife...and she swears that not rinsing (being the lazy male...she was hardest to change btw...) has stopped the etching of glass. She even adds the favorite wine glass to the nightly wash.

[Tim Brooks]

I'm curious..

I thought dishwashing (among other things that need to be cleaned around the house) was the reason we have children... :eek:

[Glenn Clabo]

Dishwashers quiet so it must be good?
Nope, just insulation for the most part, take that $2000 Meile and remove the insulation from around it and you'll have your basic noisy dishwasher for the most part.
Al

Al,
Isn't also true that the european style dishwashers don't have the garbage grinder? I know our Bosch doesn't...and the filter works fine.

[Al Willits]

I think your right Glenn, seems to me there's a filter that gets removed and cleaned from time to time, almost positive its Bosch that is that way.
Seems to work and customers say they don't have to clean that screen very often if I remember right...having a brand name issue (more commonly called CRS disease right now)..:)

Also usually etching is from to much soap (not enough foodstuff) or the dishwasher not rinsing or even to hot a water.
Usually to much soap though.

Al.

[Bryan Rocker]

It is Tim until they grow up and move out then its time to buy a dishwasher LOL!

[Pat Germain]

Another vote for BOSCH. The GE dishwasher the builder installed in my house was equal in quality to an EZ-Bake oven.

I had purchased a Maytag many years ago and was looking at new models to replace the GE toy dishwasher. The salesman echoed what most folks are saying here: Maytag ain't what they used to be. Further research proved this particular salesman wasn't lying.

I was all set to buy a nice KitchAid when another salesman turned on the dishwasher behind me. It was a BOSCH. I didn't think it was working because I didn't hear anything. I couldn't believe how quiet it was. Since my kitchen is open and just off the living room, noise abaitment was important. I went with the BOSCH and it works great. The all stainless steel insides are worth every penny.

The only time the BOSCH is didn't get dishes clean is when my kids used to just throw them in haphazardly. As long as the dishes are loaded in something close to correctly, they come out sparkling. No need to rinse. Just scrape and load!

[Tim Brooks]

It is Tim until they grow up and move out then its time to buy a dishwasher LOL!


Now that makes complete sense.

**note to self: Add a dishwasher category to the long-term budget so I will have enough to purchase one of these nice dishwashers when the kids are gone. :D

[Wes Bischel]

We've been very pleased with our Kenmore (by Whirlpool) dishwasher. It is quiet, but more important, it does a great job on the dishes - even the ones my 5 year old stacks in.:D I use it for everything - pots, pans, fine stuff etc. It runs every other day and has for 5 years without a hitch.

FWIW,

Wes