Must read article

[Craig D Peltier]

A friend in California sent this to me. It mentions this forum in it.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118670860592593818.html?mod=at_leisure_main_revi ews_days_only

[Keith Starosta]

...Traffic is growing at Web sites that cater to wealthy hobbyists such as sawmillcreek.org, where registered users have more than doubled in the past year to 20,000.

:eek: :eek:

I guess I better pack up my bags and head on outta here, then....



:rolleyes:

[Tony De Masi]

Just another example of write what you want to don't worry about accuracy.

Tony

[Dave Avery]

Just another example of write what you want to don't worry about accuracy.

Tony


Certainly accurate in some cases...... I could have easily been one of people profiled for the article. What's great about SMC is that people from all walks of life, wide age spans, and differing means get together and discuss a common interest.

[David Weaver]

I'm still looking for the festool sander that has a tiny vacuum in it.

Article says I can get a LN #8 for $350 - I'm in!

[Greg Robbins]

you are a bunch of wealthy hobbyists, did you? :)

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118670860592593818.html?mod=todays_us_nonsub_wee kendjournal

[Greg Peterson]

I guess I don't fit the profile.

Oh well, it keeps me out of trouble, so long as I'm not buying tools.

[Homer Faucett]

I love the disbelief in the price of tools that the author seems to portray. However, I will bet the author paid more for his kitchen cabinets alone than I did for my entire shop and kitchen cabinets put together.

[Doug Shepard]

I have a couple of those tools mentioned. Does that mean I'm now an exekyootiv:D

[Anthony Anderson]

You don't have to worry about buying tools, you are one of the new wealthy woodworkers here at Sawmill Creek:D. That is really funny, and interesting article.



I guess I don't fit the profile.

Oh well, it keeps me out of trouble, so long as I'm not buying tools.

[Ron Jones near Indy]

If I take this article to my superintendent I should expect hundreds of thousands of dollars in back pay?:confused: I don't think so.:( Maybe my pessimistic, but realistic, outlook on things such as this have kept me from becoming independently wealthy.:eek:

[Michael Schwartz]

I can take paper thin slices of wood with my Henry Tailor framing chisels from woodcraft, as well as my Marbles Bench Chisels.

Interesting article, I guess :rolleyes:

I would probably buy a nice infill smothing plane over a 700 dollar sander, I have a 60 dollar Porter Cable that works just fine. :cool:

I guess because I have a few Lie Nelson planes I am in the same league as Jimmy Carter :D

[Chuck Lenz]

:eek: Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeze Greg Robbins ! Don't let the owners of Sawmill Creek see that ! Before you know it we will all have to have a $500,000 shop to qualify to get into this forum !

[James Carmichael]

I love the disbelief in the price of tools that the author seems to portray. However, I will bet the author paid more for his kitchen cabinets alone than I did for my entire shop and kitchen cabinets put together.

Hey, when I started out in WW about 4 years ago, I NEVER would have believed I'd buy all the tools and pay the prices for them I have, and I still don't have anything that would even be considered even medium end.

That's why it's called a "slippery slope".

I wonder if Carter is a bevel-up, or bevel-down guy?

[Warren Clemans]

Who knew that when Carter said he had "lust in his heart," he was talking about fancy planes?

Loved the article--thanks for posting the link.

[Brad Townsend]

Obviously, the person who wrote that article hasn't spent much time on SMC.:rolleyes:

[Jim O'Dell]

I've skewed the bell curve to the lower side all my life....why be different now!! :D :D Jim.

[Al Willits]

I'm wondering who borrowed my Porsche, the Lambo I can live with out for now, but bring back the 911 please, also while your at it, bring back the Wellcraft, I'd like to go to the lake estate this weekend...uh huh...you betcha.

Although I'm willing to bet woodworking is probably done by older, middle class income and up for the most part, least what I've seen.

Al........who's still got more in fishing equipment than woodworking...kinda

[John Schreiber]

The central point of the article is right on. There's nothing like working wood as an antidote for my work life. The wood never lies to me. It's my direct effort which makes it change. No committee determines how I proceed. If I screw up it's my own fault and I deal with it myself.

The article is also full of errors that we see, but most of the public will miss. Just about every article is full of errors, but we don't notice them because they aren't in our area of expertise.

Because it's the Wall Street Journal, they focus on CEOs and other high-power high-income people and they assume all woodworkers are like that. We know it's not, but were happy to be part of a community of people rich and poor.

[John Brennaman]

Paul Turner may have been high paid before he retired however, he is now getting the same pay that I do for my woodworking. "Smiles and hugs". That's what matters most to me.

[Bob Childress]

. The wood never lies to me.

Can you please provide the name and address of your timber supplier? I've got a whole rack full of liars out in my shed. :D ;) :D :D

[Steve Kohn]

It's funny. I don't feel rich or like an executive. Do you?

I don't have a boat, or a summer home but I do enjoy woodworking and read SMC daily.

[David DeCristoforo]

I had a really good client who was one of those "wealthy hobbyists". He had a shop that put mine to shame and a collection of rare woods that would make anyone drool. Hundreds of board feet of Brazilian and Hondo rosewood. Stacks of old growth redwood timbers. Figured cherry. Some of the finest bird's eye maple I have ever laid eyes on. Remember that log of blistered Hondo mahog. that got written up in FW some years ago? He had a couple of slices of that at $5,000 a pop. Funny thing is, he never actually made anything out of any of it. He would come to me with an idea for a piece and I would draw it up for him and then after he had marked up my drawings enough to convince himself that he was "designing" the piece, we would go out to his shop and muck through his private lumber warehouse, pull some stock, load it into my truck and I would head back to my shop and make it up for him. While I never had much use for his "I'm a woodworker" BS, I sure got a lot of work from him over the years....

[Craig Stueve]

Can you please provide the name and address of your timber supplier? I've got a whole rack full of liars out in my shed. :D ;) :D :D

I agree 150%

Craig

[Brian Kent]

The difference between the list price of a low end and high end Honda Civic is $8,780. Maybe we can get them to do an article on the rich folks who buy a ritzy Civic just to drive on the same ordinary roads?


Incidentally, a great Civic could last 10-12 years. How long do those expensive table saws and hand tools last???


(ps. How much do those little aluminum bass-boats with a 4-stroke outboard cost?)

[Carl Crout]

I just bought the $50 Crown deluxe mortising gauge so I must be a billionaire.......... :)

[Tim Marks]

Not the only errors there.

The picture of him working with a Grizzly 6x26 milling machine is titled "Paul Turner works on a stool", and is captioned "wood". Anybody try using a 6x26 for woodworking? The article says he has a 1960 Deckel milling machine, though.

Another spot says some bought a computerized routing machine (to produce perfect clock gears) on the Internet for about $500, making it sound extravagant. Sounds like a bargain to me, where I can I find one of those? When you are talking CNC, anything without 000 after it is cheap.

OK, I will agree that a $700 festool sander is way over the top:D !

[Gary Keedwell]

Certainly accurate in some cases...... I could have easily been one of people profiled for the article. What's great about SMC is that people from all walks of life, wide age spans, and differing means get together and discuss a common interest.
:eek: It's so cool to rub elbows with the rich and famous.:rolleyes: :D


Gary K.

[Clint Winterhalter]

I hear we are RICH!$!$!$!$!$!$

Must have happened while I was sleeping...

Darn the luck..

Still broke!

Clint

[Mike Cutler]

Well dang!!!! Looks like I gotta give up my LN planes and chisels. They've achieved cult status! ....... Now where did I put that Plexco jack plane???:eek:,:cool:

[Bill Arnold]

I've got nothing against people who have the tons of money always to buy the most expensive tools out there. Thing is, they seem to spend a lot of their time justifying their expenditure. A lot of folks come across like they buy high-priced stuff to impress others. I'm much more impressed with someone who actually knows how to use tools to create something regardless of how much the tool costs.

[Al Willits]

Kinda wonder what they say about the other hobbies that can cost a fortune, there were a few I was in that could/did get spendy, Drag racing, shooting, tournament fishing, plus a few others, heck even my cooking hobby can get more than a bit spendy if you outfit your kitchen with all the latest commercial equipment.
I know that pro fishing now starts with a 50k boat and goes up from there, one of the guys on the walleye forum I visit just spent 80k for a Ranger with a 300hp Merc on it.

Got a buddy who's into muscle cars, anybody price a hemi cuda lately, how about a Shelby Cobra, last I heard way over 250k.

Maybe the morons who write this stuff ought to get out more, stop by my house (and many others) and see the millions I/we don't have invested in this hobby.
No...maybe not, I don't think they'd sell many articles about little folk..:)

Al

[Michael Schwartz]

Funny how they didn't mention any YB infill Planes such as the Saint James Bay or the Holtey. I think the LN's are cheap compared to those:rolleyes:

Well, I gues we are just talking about everyday CEO's and Ex Presidents, not Bill Gates.

[Bruce Page]

Overall I thought it was a good article. Any serious woodworker could pick it apart, but the general tone was positive.

I just can’t believe that anyone would pay 5K for a used DECKEL! :eek:

[glenn bradley]

you are a bunch of wealthy hobbyists, did you? :)

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118670860592593818.html?mod=todays_us_nonsub_wee kendjournal

When I read that article I thought, Oh Wow, those rich knuckleheads let me onto their forum by mistake. Shhhh, don't tell. It sure is a good thing I'm not into those inexpensive hobbies like golf, fishing, hunting, muscle cars, moto-cross, pop-tab collecting . . . oh, OK, pop-tab collecting is OK.

[Anthony Anderson]

aaaahhhh, good ole fashion humility, and I thought it didn't exist anymore. Call up the author, maybe you can get him to do a reprint with your name in the article.:) :rolleyes:


Certainly accurate in some cases...... I could have easily been one of people profiled for the article. What's great about SMC is that people from all walks of life, wide age spans, and differing means get together and discuss a common interest.

[Joe Lasch]

I'm not exactly weathy, but I do get the WSJ at work and saw the article. Hadn't heard of this place before, but I sure like what I see!
So I guess they can make that 20,001:D

[Eugene A. Manzo III]

If I'm part of the Wealthy I might just as well buy myself another tool :D .
Ive felt pretty Executive lately until I go in the house :rolleyes: . Well my Executive Decision needs to figure out how I can pay for some of that Powermatic Thunder :confused: .

[Mark Singer]

I think it is a well written article as well. The surge of professionals into woodworking is something I have noticed over many years. I think it is a good thing.....we benefit from a much great selection of quality tools than ever before. With the internet there is wonderful sharing of ideas and techniques.....people learn much faster . The statement that many of the executives are affluent is true. I think the author finds it a bit refreshing that these "rich" guys are actually using their hands and building something rather than having endless discussions about what vintage cabernet they are collecting......or the art they found in a small town where they met the artist and had lunch discussing his tecnique for painting with acid on sheets of copper.....or the exectutive who has just bought his 11 th Ferrari... Rather than pretensous hobbies woodworking has humbled the wealthy executive to work with his hands instead of just writing checks and using his mouth to relate his experiences. He must use his mind too.....and the bottom line is ...he loves it! For the very same reasons we do. For many years I just had handsaws and electric drill was my only power tool....I still made nice stuff....relitive to that beggining most of you do have well equipped shops.....now it is up to you to make someting. For those of you that just collect tools than they might as well be bottles of wine or Ferraris ...if you are not using them to your potential. When you make something, it doesn't need to be huge or expensive, the most important thing is that it represents the very best you can do....in design and in crafstmanship.....if you do that , then that is all anyone including yourself can ask......and it will feel very good !

[Paul Douglass]

Mark, good reply. I agree with you, the only thing I don't like about the "wealthy" being involved is I can't compete with what they are willing and able to pay for tools and supplies. But they didn't just start yesterday so I don't expect to see a great surge in prices.

[Dan Larson]

Well said, Mark. Too bad the WSJ journalist didn't have the opportunity to include you in the interviews. It would have added a more complete perspective to the article.

I would bet that the senior execs who are attracted to woodworking also tend to be some of the more effective and responsible leaders. There is something intrinsically honest about woodworking. The woodworker is directly responsible for the success or failure of a piece... no dumping the blame on a junior VP if the design is lousy or the execution is sloppy!

Dan

[Dave Avery]

I think it is a well written article as well. The surge of professionals into woodworking is something I have noticed over many years. I think it is a good thing.....we benefit from a much great selection of quality tools than ever before. With the internet there is wonderful sharing of ideas and techniques.....people learn much faster . The statement that many of the executives are affluent is true. I think the author finds it a bit refreshing that these "rich" guys are actually using their hands and building something rather than having endless discussions about what vintage cabernet they are collecting......or the art they found in a small town where they met the artist and had lunch discussing his tecnique for painting with acid on sheets of copper.....or the exectutive who has just bought his 11 th Ferrari... Rather than pretensous hobbies woodworking has humbled the wealthy executive to work with his hands instead of just writing checks and using his mouth to relate his experiences. He must use his mind too.....and the bottom line is ...he loves it! For the very same reasons we do. For many years I just had handsaws and electric drill was my only power tool....I still made nice stuff....relitive to that beggining most of you do have well equipped shops.....now it is up to you to make someting. For those of you that just collect tools than they might as well be bottles of wine or Ferraris ...if you are not using them to your potential. When you make something, it doesn't need to be huge or expensive, the most important thing is that it represents the very best you can do....in design and in crafstmanship.....if you do that , then that is all anyone including yourself can ask......and it will feel very good !

Well said, Mark....... as simple and elegant as the things you create.....

[Jim Becker]

The former CEO of my company is an avid woodworker and in an interview with one publication a year or so ago, he stated that if he wasn't doing what he was doing career wise, he'd want to be a cabinetmaker. I've been pleasantly surprised at the number of coworkers, employees of competitors and customers whom all share in the love of working wood! And it's certainly a wonderful "mental health" activity for dealing the high-stress world we live in today in our work lives.

And that's very kewel to get a little exposure for SMC in the WSJ! Bravo!

[Chuck Lenz]

Jim, I don't know if I'd say that it's certainly a wonderful "mental health" activity for dealing the high-stress world we live in today in our work lives. I think if you keep it as a personal hobby maybe that would hold true some, but once you try to start selling your work, and have to make a liveing from it, then it becomes a whole new ball game and has the reverse effect.

[Jim Becker]

Jim, I don't know if I'd say that it's certainly a wonderful "mental health" activity for dealing the high-stress world we live in today in our work lives. I think if you keep it as a personal hobby maybe that would hold true some, but once you try to start selling your work, and have to make a liveing from it, then it becomes a whole new ball game and has the reverse effect.

Very true--and my comment applied to folks who do woodworking as an avocation, not a vocation. I personally don't sell my work--I can barely produce enough to keep up with my own needs! But there are many folks who love the art of woodworking and even when deriving their income from it, they truly enjoy what they do.

[Mark Singer]

You know for many people in the business world there is a great deal that occurs and decisions made and an individual, even an executive has little control. I run a few businesses and I know first hand. Even as an Architect I have the client the Design Review Boards, neighbors and the contractor attempting to change things.....there are rules and if the result is pleasing it was a fight to get it there....it was not luck. I like to think of my work as "haiku" (a short Japanese poem of great feeling) simple and to the point yet it speaks loudly on its own. As General Partner I have 3 other Partners in my Restaurant group and we don't always agree....after 13 years we have a great deal of respect for each other...which is good. Every executive understands this committee decision making process.
When I enter my shop, its a different world. I want oak....its oak! Iwant walnut ....so be it! I want to take the time to make hounds tooth dovetails....no one will tell me no they take too long. I just do it! This is appealing to executives....this freedom to create things from their own minds, and with their own hands. In the office they see weeks going by and little changes....in the shop every hour means a great deal... So appreciate dearly what we have...it is precious . Yes after all these years I have a few favorite cabs and pinots, mostly to share with friends.....and again for drinking not so much discussing.....because in the end the taste is everything and little needs to be said......as with a fine piece of woodwork if its truly good...it speaks...you just watch

[Bryan Rocker]

Well I guess I should feel special rubbing elboes with the rich and shameless LOL! I am willing to be there are more working stiffs here than CEO's........

As to the wood never lies, can I interest you in some that prove otherwise???

:)

[Dave Avery]

You know for many people in the business world there is a great deal that occurs and decisions made and an individual, even an executive has little control. I run a few businesses and I know first hand. Even as an Architect I have the client the Design Review Boards, neighbors and the contractor attempting to change things.....there are rules and if the result is pleasing it was a fight to get it there....it was not luck. I like to think of my work as "haiku" (a short Japanese poem of great feeling) simple and to the point yet it speaks loudly on its own. As General Partner I have 3 other Partners in my Restaurant group and we don't always agree....after 13 years we have a great deal of respect for each other...which is good. Every executive understands this committee decision making process.
When I enter my shop, its a different world. I want oak....its oak! Iwant walnut ....so be it! I want to take the time to make hounds tooth dovetails....no one will tell me no they take too long. I just do it! This is appealing to executives....this freedom to create things from their own minds, and with their own hands. In the office they see weeks going by and little changes....in the shop every hour means a great deal... So appreciate dearly what we have...it is precious . Yes after all these years I have a few favorite cabs and pinots, mostly to share with friends.....and again for drinking not so much discussing.....because in the end the taste is everything and little needs to be said......as with a fine piece of woodwork if its truly good...it speaks...you just watch

Mark,

Again, right on. I work in an office and have a lot of fun with what I do but the results are not tangible. Good business decisions and well developed and happy employees provide great satisfaction, but not as much as designing and creating something that will be passed on for (hopefully) many generations. Best. Dave.

[Craig D Peltier]

Jim, I don't know if I'd say that it's certainly a wonderful "mental health" activity for dealing the high-stress world we live in today in our work lives. I think if you keep it as a personal hobby maybe that would hold true some, but once you try to start selling your work, and have to make a liveing from it, then it becomes a whole new ball game and has the reverse effect.


True Chuck, "I want it now" and all the juggling is stressful. Id like to more pickey when I become wealthy from rubbing noses here.:D

[Bob Feeser]

Woodworking for a living. Now you are talking about something that drives the message home. I have been doing woodworking, as a hobby since childhood in my Dad's shop in the basement. Then high school 2 hours per day, 5 days a week. I took as much wood shop, as industrial arts majors, even though that was not my major. When I realized that my house needed windows, and they would cost me over 4 grand, I knew that I could buy enough equipment for less than that, and build them myself. Well I started buying, and never looked back. Now I have enough tools to buy many sets of windows. I did make a prototype, and will start to make them soon I hope. Along the way, I started to do projects professionally. Oak doors, wainscoting, oak steps etc. The problem was two fold; Having to watch the clock, both in making it in enough time to make my "hourly" and make it fast enough to meet the deadline. Then being rushed by the customer to get it done, even though the finish work required a little more time. It started to get to be more like work, than a joy. My heart went out of it. Plus lugging 2/12's down the steps, and planing for a couple of hours, with a mask on, and hearing protection, then cleaning out the bags, and the list goes on. So as far as doing it professionally, I decided to put it on hold.
I have some people that I have breakfast with, who have purchased kitchen cabinets for 30,000, and enjoy the bragging rights of the price tag. I just bought a book on Veneering, doing cabinets with floral inlays on the corners, or delicate veneers for accents. Solid woods throughout. It takes a good 4 to 6 weeks of solid work to make a full kitchen cabinet set. I see what Wood Mode is getting for a set. They recently have been making a lesser line, with metal sides for cabinet drawers etc.
I had a high end body shop for 20 years. Did a lot of high end cars. Learned a great deal about fine finishing. One of my favorite customers were the Wyeth family. My shop was in Chadds Ford. Andy Wyeth used to come in the Chadds Ford Inn, with a hole in his turtle neck sweater, driving his 7 year old Jeep Grand Cherokee, and he just sold the Helga collection for 10 million, but you would never know it. He sparkled when I mentioned that things of quality get better with age.
There are some of those who have made or inherited large sums of money. Some of them are those who know what quality is and are willing to pay for the hands of a craftsman to create it for them. It is up to us to have ever higher standards in the craft, to develop something that is so beaufiful, they are powerless not to have it. Something you yourself as the creator don't want to part with. Maybe their is hope after all.

[Jim Becker]

It seems that so many are picking out the "wealth" aspect of the individuals called out in the article, rather than the "woodworking" angle. Consider that the people in the piece could easily do many things with their free time (and money), but have chosen to join our "fraternity" instead. IMHO, that just solidifies my own decision a number of years ago that woodworking is a great way to spend some time, blow off some steam and enjoy life to the fullest.

[Mark Singer]

It seems that so many are picking out the "wealth" aspect of the individuals called out in the article, rather than the "woodworking" angle. Consider that the people in the piece could easily do many things with their free time (and money), but have chosen to join our "fraternity" instead. IMHO, that just solidifies my own decision a number of years ago that woodworking is a great way to spend some time, blow off some steam and enjoy life to the fullest.
That is my point! The author is not saying every woodworker is Donald Trump......he is saying that many wealthy executives and professionals have taken up woodworking as a hobby and really like it! That is a good thing! They like it for the same reasons we do...

[Gary Keedwell]

".The leading hobbyists' magazine, Fine Woodworking, has a circulation of 270,000 copies, up 10% in the last decade, and 80% of the readers are executives, lawyers or other types of professionals."

I have a hard time with this quote. I find it a little hard to swallow that 8 out of 10 people who read FWW are so-called executives, lawyers etc. On the other hand ...didn't Norton of the Honeymooners call himself a "sewer engineer" :confused:
Gary K.

[Michael Schwartz]

".The leading hobbyists' magazine, Fine Woodworking, has a circulation of 270,000 copies, up 10% in the last decade, and 80% of the readers are executives, lawyers or other types of professionals."

I have a hard time with this quote. I find it a little hard to swallow that 8 out of 10 people who read FWW are so-called executives, lawyers etc. On the other hand ...didn't Norton of the Honeymooners call himself a "sewer engineer" :confused:
Gary K.

By other types of professionals do they mean professional woodworkers? Or are we all a bunch of tradesmen, or skilled laborers :D

[Mark Singer]

".The leading hobbyists' magazine, Fine Woodworking, has a circulation of 270,000 copies, up 10% in the last decade, and 80% of the readers are executives, lawyers or other types of professionals."

I have a hard time with this quote. I find it a little hard to swallow that 8 out of 10 people who read FWW are so-called executives, lawyers etc. On the other hand ...didn't Norton of the Honeymooners call himself a "sewer engineer" :confused:
Gary K.
Yes Norton was a sanitary engineer and Ralphy Boy was a transportation engineer.....Alice was a psychologist and Trixie was a shopping consultant like my wife:rolleyes: Excuse me while I Professionally Sanitize my BBQ for this afternoons after the concert meat analyizing conference...(Tri Tip Festival)

[Gary Keedwell]

".The leading hobbyists' magazine, Fine Woodworking, has a circulation of 270,000 copies, up 10% in the last decade, and 80% of the readers are executives, lawyers or other types of professionals."

I have a hard time with this quote. I find it a little hard to swallow that 8 out of 10 people who read FWW are so-called executives, lawyers etc. On the other hand ...didn't Norton of the Honeymooners call himself a "sewer engineer" :confused:
Gary K.
So, if I'm reading this right, 16,000 members of SMC are executives, lawyers, or other types of professionals. I'm assuming by "professionals" the articles means "types" like doctors, engineers etc.
So, that leaves 4,000 SMC members as "blue collar" types? Wow, I feel like I'm in the minority..:rolleyes: :p
Gary K.

[Mark Singer]

Gary, you never know...Ed Norton became an actor and was even going with Selma Hayek:eek:

[Gary Keedwell]

Gary, you never know...Ed Norton became an actor and was even going with Selma Hayek:eek:
Actor=Sanitary Engineer = Maybe that explains the smelly stuff Hollywood is producing the last 10 years.:eek: :D
Gary K.

[Henk Marais]

This is my first post (Just Joined)

I Agree that the article should be seen in a positive light.

I am a profesional kitchen cabinet maker in Sunny South Africa, and our developing economy is going throught a property market boom. However we can not seem to get the right people to grow our business with. The conclution we have come to is that the young people who has the ability to do this, think of it as a inferior career choice. They want to do something fancy that brings in all the big bucks. (I wont bore you all with the shortcommings of those who sees themselves worhy of our profession)

I thuss think that articles like this one might just give our trade and hobby the profile that will see more people join our endevours.

Basic economics will also see the price off the tools come down and more money invested by companies into the development of even better tools.

So in short - I say encourage as many to join us, as possible.