Edge Lit Sign Info

[James A. Wolfe]

Hello all,
I've been watching the ongoing discussions about edge-lit acrylic and wanted to check if anyone has located (or become) a supplier for self-contained LED lights. I have a request for an unusual table decoration for the Stuttgart Navy Ball and I thought that this might be the way to go. I'll find something nautical from Buzz and see where it goes from there.
Thanx,
Jim

[Larry Bratton]

James:
I have purchased some LED strips from this company. I do not have them yet so I can't comment further. I am getting them for a project I am working on. I talked to this guy today and he was very nice. You might check them out as a source. The ones I am getting are 16" long and operate by simply plugging them into 110v.

Acolyte Industries, Inc.
Att: Lawrence Greenberg
251 W 30th St
Ste 3FW
New York, NY 10001

(877) 4-LED-NOW x114
(215) 629-4363 x114

LRG@acolyteLED.com

[Stephen Beckham]

I've bought kits from superbrightleds.com

They have some multipurpose kits and plain old LEDs for purchase...

[George Elston]

I was in Walmart Superstore yesterday and happened on a little gadget called a "ritelight". It's a self contained LED light that is about 8.5"x 2.25"x 1". It has 6 LEDs and runs off 3 AAA batteries. The lighting is 2 level, bright and less bright. It sells for about $12 and it was so neat I bought it. Walmart is like that I can go in for a gal of milk and spend $50 on "Stuff". Anyway their website is www.intellitecproducts.com (http://www.intellitecproducts.com). I put mine inside the cover of the laser and now I don't have to shine a flashlight to see how the cut is going, but it might be perfect for an edge lit table display, no wires. You could use colored plastic or glass paint filter the light for different effects.

[Steven Smith]

I just placed an order with superbrightleds yesterday afternoon. I'll follow up here with shipping time and quality thoughts.

[Bob Cole]

Does anyone have any examples of what they done with this technique?

[pete hagan]

Bob and all. I posted a sample of our centerpiece design at:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=610652 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=610652)

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=66980&d=1182909680 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=66980&d=1182909680)

We made these for a large gala dinner of 90 tables! Well I just sold another job using the same centerpiece for 125 tables so over the weekend I have to make 35 more!!. These certainly have paid for themself as I get about $25 a table just for the acrylic parts. That works out to the laser billing about $60 an hour which I think is about right. The real cost to make the base in about $20.00 each but that's because of volume. We found surplus LEDs for about 38 cents each and I believe there are 17 leds in each base.
Additional costs are the glass vases which are floral wholesale and I think each acrylic panel is about $ 4 each before laser costs.

The centerpiece is a routed MDF base with three slots 3/16" for acrylic. Each slot contained three wide angle LEDs wired in parallel and the center had 8 leds. The height overall of the base is 3" and the length of each side is about 14.75 inches.

This is really easy to make for any wood worker here. The LEDs were all wired in parallel with a dropping resister and a standard 9 volt. The hardest part is the wiring. We painted the bases silver with Rustoleum hammered finish from a quart can and a small automotive sprayer but for a few pieces a rattle can is fine. Definitely use a primer because the MDF sucks the paint up.
I hope this helps.

Pete

[Dan Starr]

James,
Try Vytek at www.graniteart.com (http://www.graniteart.com) they have some pretty good led edge lights. By the way what is your connection with Stuttgart? It's an awful long way from Kentucky.

[Darren Null]

For edge-lit signs, have you considered cold cathode tubes instead of LEDs? Assuming you're going to run them from mains power, LEDs are quite fussy about the power supply. They will run if you just feed them the right voltage, but you'll burn out your LEDs much faster if the ampage isn't right too.
Cold cathode tubes usually come in pairs and just require 12V DC. More forgiving. Better light output for the money. Variety of colours. They're always for sale on eBay for computer case modding and tarting up your car.

Just a thought.

[Bill Cunningham]

I was in a dollar type store the other day, and they had two led flashlights in stock, one has a single led, and took a couple of AA's and the other had a squeeze grip generator, two light heads, and two 'white' leds. either one was $2.00 ..
Now walk into any electronics store, and try to buy a white led for two bucks:mad: We can't do it, but the Chinese seem to be able to :confused:

[Tom Bull]

We have used led rope lights for edge light on etched glass. You have to be aware of heat, about .77 watt per foot. You can get them that are complete with wiring at Pegasus lighting, google led rope light.

[Larry Bratton]

Heck, you can use rope lights. I found some at Lowes yesterday, a 6' strip with a power cord for about $6.00.

By the way, don't use the source I posted above. They advertised the items I bought for sale..buy it now on Ebay..they didn't even have them! Go figure. E-bay used to be a pretty good place to buy stuff, but I am getting a bit disallusioned with it.

[Steven Smith]

I just placed an order with superbrightleds yesterday afternoon. I'll follow up here with shipping time and quality thoughts.

Well the postman just left and I had my order of LED strips. My order was shipped the day after it was placed... total time was very reasonable.

I ordered several colors and all were pretty bright. In a darkened room I'm guessing I could read a book with the led bar two to three feet away from the printed page. Each lightbar was individually wrapped by color as were the wire extenders. As it turned out I didn't really need to purchase the wire extenders as each bar came with a mounting bracket and connection wire.

Don't overdrive with your power supply and all will be good.

I lit a strip along a piece of 1/4" acrylic and it looked great. I'll construct something in the next couple of days so all can see.:)

[James A. Wolfe]

James,
By the way what is your connection with Stuttgart? It's an awful long way from Kentucky.
As with a lot of us, I "won" this business by virtue of having a relative in need. My daughter is stationed in Stuttgart and she is helping plan the Navy Ball. When her commander decided he wanted something nautical but different than a ships wheel with flowers in it, she decided I could do something with "that laser thingie" that might impress.

As I said before, I'll come up with something nautical and relevant to their location and burn some plastic. Thanks thus far to all who have commented. I'll start a prototype this week and let you know how it turns out.

Thanx,
Jim

[Rick Maitland]

I got my LED lights from www.besthongkong.com

[Carol VanArnam]

Did you make the stand (buy the parts and make it yourself) or did you buy it as a unit.... This is exactly what I'm looking for so I really want to know where you got it....

[Dan Starr]

James,
So she must be at Patch Barracks, I graduated from High School there in 85.

[Cary Fleming]

I got my LED lights from www.besthongkong.com (http://www.besthongkong.com)

Did you buy the sign light module? What are you using to power it?

[Rick Maitland]

I made the sign base myself with 1/8" black acrylic. I did all the wiring myself. It is powered by 2 9V batteries. I used this website to get the wiring design.
www.led.linear1.org/led.wiz

[Jay nomodoh]

The pictures posted of these edge lit signs looks great. I'm going to give it a try on my CNC router.

I think I'm going to make a base out of wood or Al and power a LED strip with a 9v battery. Probably 4" x 6" size.

How deep do you cut for the best results? half way through? 3/4?
Does 1/2" thick acrylic work better than 3/8" or 1/4"? Does it matter?

Any other tips?

[Pete Simmons]

What will the cost be to run the lights?

9 V batteries are costly.

[Rick Maitland]

Jay I use 1/4" thick acrylic. On the laser I engrave just enough to get the frosted look. Not sure if engraving deep would improove the look or not.

Pete the great thing about using LED lights is they consume very little power. I was curious so I ran 3 lights overnight and all day the following day with no lose in brightness. The same 2 9V batteries are in the 1st sign I ever made that we use for a sample display. I made that sign over a year ago. Your other option would be to get a power cord that plugs into 115 volt but has a built in transformer that knocks the voltage down. I have seen these at Radio Shack or other electronic stores. I like your idea of making the base out of wood. I think that would look much better. I am looking into other materials to use for the base myself.

[Jay nomodoh]

Thanks Rick. I'll think 1/4" thick sounds good. That will probably be good for a 4x6" size piece. I'll try going about 1/16" deep.

I've never routed acrilic before so I'm not sure what the surface finish will be like. I may have to sand a bit to get a nice frosted look like you get with the laser.

[Pete Simmons]

Rick - I knew they used little power but I thought a couple of days was the most they would go.

Your results looks like they last a very long time.

Thanks for the info.

Yes, Now I think using a 9v battery is the way to go.

[Tom Cullen]

Home Depot also sells various sized LED lights in aluminum strips... 12 inch and 24 inch. You would need to encase them in something ( wood ) . The prices are very reasonable.

[Carol VanArnam]

Ok I need some help form you LED smart guys-

I keep looking at your postings and at the web links you've all posted. I still don't get it. Can someone use small words and simple ideas to help me understand this. I want to do what all of you are doing. I want to make a box (from wood or acrylic) and put the LED lights in it and make it light up.

How do I figure this out..... Can someone post just the basic supplies needed to complete just one project...... please don't say I need a battery and 4 LED lights. I need a few more details than that.....

THANKS GUYS IN ADVANCE...

[Dave West]

I'll do my best...
Go to Radio Shack and pick out the LED color and brightness you want. On the package you will see the voltage and max current rating. If you hook the lights directly to a power supply they will most likely draw too much current and burn out, so you need a current limiting resistor ( Radio Shack also has these). Decide if you want power from a transformer or battery and go to
http://led.linear1.org/led.wiz Input all the values and it will give you a wiring diagram. It will also give the resistor values. See if the RS people can got to the web site while you're there so you don't need a 2nd trip to get the resistors.
You can also purchase LED strips on a circuit board with resistors. Just add a 12 volt wall transformer and you're set. http://www.fiberopticproducts.com/Ledbars.htm

Dave

[Steven Smith]

A quick something I threw together. I'm happy with the price (4.95) and easy implementation. Just hook up 12vdc and away you go. No worries about led polarity, current dropping resistors (on the circuit board) and they're bright! Both pictures were taken in normal room light, no flash.
Again the vendor was superbrightleds.com...

Now the only thing to think about is liability about producing a product that uses 3rd party electrical devices.

[Aleta Allen]

Steven,

That looks great! So, to ask a dumb question, In simple terms, which LEDS did you get and what else to have it fully powered, connectors, 12v, what??

I want to order and make sure I get everything I need the first time. :)

Thanks, I have a couple premade LED bars, but want to be able to make my own items.

Yes, liabilility is something to think about.

[Steven Smith]

Aleta,
No problem... I bought several from superbrightleds.com their part number is 'LB3-X6 Light Bar'. For power I just wired it to a 12vdc 'wall wart' power cube I had in the junk box.
At a minimum if I were to sell something like this, the circuit should have a fuse and on=off switch. If there's no venting for air flow, maybe a thermal limit switch too.
It would be nice if some of our vendors recognized the potential of this type of sign and offered these bases at a reasonable price.

[Todd Schwartz]

For those that do not want to create their own, Ikonicsign has their Luminary Frames.

See http://www.ikonicssign.com/luminary_frames.php

I saw them when I was there looking at the IkonicMetal product, other than that have no other experience.

Slightly spendy, but I would guess that after you figure your costs, time and liability, an option to explore.

I would be interested in anyones experience with this product.

Todd

[Howard Garner]

Aleta,

At a minimum if I were to sell something like this, the circuit should have a fuse and on=off switch. If there's no venting for air flow, maybe a thermal limit switch too.
It would be nice if some of our vendors recognized the potential of this type of sign and offered these bases at a reasonable price.

I would not worry about fuses or switches. The wall wart will cover that.
Get a light strip with a jack that the wall wart output plugs into. That will function as the on/off switch.

Howard Garner
VeraLaser VL-300, Corel X3

[James A. Wolfe]

James,
So she must be at Patch Barracks, I graduated from High School there in 85.


Dan,
She's near there. I think she works at Kelley but she lives off post somewhere just outside town. We haven't made a visit yet and everything German sounds like Gobbledee Gookenschweinertstrasse to me.;)

Jim

[Bob Cole]

I looked at the prices of the bases from the company mentioned by Todd and not sure why they are so expensive.

I'm not the brain child so need the exact model number of each of the items to make the whole. A little hand holding is required and don't worry, my diaper has already been changed.

Do you think it would be difficult to modify a plaque display base to make this work?

[Scott Shepherd]

I just got back from a large sign convention in Atlantic City and they had a large number of LED companies there (all used for lighting large, commercial signs), and I had the chance to speak with a couple of them about it all. Seems the real costly issue is the power supply. You need "something" to cut the power and get it down to levels where the LED's operate. That appears to me to be the real costly item of these units.

I had a good discussion with one supplier who actually had their company sign done that way and hanging in the booth. I told him that there was a nice market out there for the light bars and people were looking for them with limited results. He had an Asian man there and he turned to him and said "Can we bring in just the light bar and not the entire assembly with the acrylic in it" and the gentleman nodded that he could do that. They spoke about having to "bring it in" and I got the impression it was all coming from China just from the conversations they had in front of me.

A few minutes later, as I walked through the show someone behind me was hollering my name. I turned around and it was the guy from the LED place and he wanted to know what sizes people in the laser world might want. I explained the typical sizes of lasers that most people owned and he came up with several sizes he said he'd get back with me on.

I have no idea what they will cost. Might be high dollar units or might be fair priced. There were probably 10 people at the show who were using these signs, but no one made them. They would point me to the guy who made the extrusions. I have the extrusion info, but everyone put the LED's in the units themselves.

The place that made the extrusions was Sign Comp out of Grand Rapids, MI. I can't locate the extrusion used to make them in the catalog I picked up, but it's where everyone I asked told me they got it from (well, not actually got it from, as I think Sign Comp even referred me to someone else to buy their products from.

I'll post any more info here when I hear from the people, good or bad news.

[Joe Pelonio]

Somewhat OT but yet related, I just did some tradeshow signs using several of these light boxes. I just did translucent vinyl logos on the acrylic faces. They have fairly reasonably wholesale prices to the trade. I've been using them for years for backlit menu signs for a chain of fast food restaurants.



http://dynamicdisplays.net/index.html

[Bob Cole]

I did find another company that focuses on LED/Cathode bases. The cost was a little disappointing if ordered in smaller quantities but larger orders could make this supplier worthwhile.

I purchased a single 12" white LED slim series to try (.25" acrylic) and it works very well. If I were to design the base, I probably would have changed it a little bit. The bases includes the base, power with switch, and little pins to "slide" the acrylic in the base. This part of the base I thought could have been done better, but works ok.

The only way I would be able to use these bases is to form a coop with other owners to purchase a large qty.

Here is the link:

http://www.centsiblelighting.com/edge-lit-signs.htm

[Kenneth Hertzog]

Hi All
I've been working on an LED light strip for some time now.
Just about have it ready for production
attached are some pictures of the strip.
These will be available in different colors.
( if anyone is interested )
they are run from 110 voltage.
also have a base designed for the strip
pictures attached
ken


76301

76302

76303

76304

[Scott Shepherd]

Bob, what was the pricing? I can't find it on that page. Can you post the details, as in the price for 1 and the price/qty where the breaks start?

[Joe Hubbard]

I've made several edge lit photos using Crystal Edge bases. I bought them before the price went way up. Photobrasive's e-store is down right now so didn't get to check in on prices but I think they are so expensive it is well worth your time to learn how make your own (8x10 is something like $80.) The photos I made were halftoned just like you would for the laser then transfered to photo resist and sandblasted on optical glass (I made them prior to having my Trotec Speedy 300). I've not tried acrylic for photos but think it should work great. Big downside is normal wear and tear (scratches) and the glass really has a quality look and feel. I'm with Carol though and would like a "receipe" from some of you electronic types. Is it as easy as you make it sound or am I missing something? This has been a great thread - I've learned a lot. Thanks - Joe

[Bob Cole]

They have a minimum Qty of 50. The sizes range from 6" to 36" an colors Red, Blue, Green, White, Yellow, and color changing. They will sell singles for testing but only have 12" and 16" and only in white. They will also do custom sizes and to call for a quote.

Qty 50 price
Red
6" 27.50
12" 33.00

White
6" 34.00
12" 46.00


Qty 500 price
Red
6" 13.75
12" 16.50

White
6" 17.00
12" 23.00


They also have a price discount at 100 pieces. If you PM me I can e-mail you the Excel spreadsheets with the breakdown with all the colors and sizes.

I can't justify purchasing 500 and the price for 50 is too high for what I was planning on marketing.

[Bill Cunningham]

My local dollar store has square boxes, about 2.5 x 2.5" (made in China) with a cluster of three, very bright, random flashing leds (red, yellow, blue) recessed into the middle.. These are sold to provide lighting effects when placing those 3d lasered glass or acrylic cubes on top.. They are held together with 4 screws, and powered by 3 AAA batteries.. When taken apart, the little circuit board can be stuck leds up into just about any small custom box and powered by any 6-9v source Would work forever on a 6v lantern battery, or even a small 6-9v rectified transformer . Just hook up the marked wires to + and - and you even get a switch..
Best part It's a dollar store so their only a buck a unit..

[Ed Newbold]

I got my LED lights from www.besthongkong.com (http://www.besthongkong.com)Do you have a page link for this item, because when I visited the site you indicated, I could not locate a base like that.

Thanks very much,

[Jay Beller]

I got 12" A/C powered edge-lit strips, but company went under. Still have a lot, so anyone wants to buy some to play with (white LEDs only) send me a message.

I cut .220 or .236 acrylic. It's a pain getting it into the display, but I developed a system of acrylic "keys" - you slide one in and rotate 90 degrees and it opens the channel just enough to squeeze the acrylic in.

The displays are meant to hang from the ceiling or mount on the wall, but I figured out how to make them stand - cut acrylic "feet":)

[Jay Beller]

Sorry, my last post got stuck in the middle of the thread.

In addition to the 12" A/C displays, I also bought a bunch of small battery-powered displays that fade between blue-red-green. These are often sold with "crystals" in them, but I cut my own acrylic - which lets me come up with my own shapes.

[Dan Hintz]

A couple of months back I designed a surface-mount LED light strip for edge lighting specifically for SMC members who complained about lack of supply (and colors). The board is 1/4" wide, less than 1/4" thick, and I could offer it in your choice of supply voltages, length, and color. You supply the power (wall wart, battery, etc.) and base, I supply the light strip.

All parts, except the LEDs and boards themselves, are sitting on the shelf in my workshop. I never placed an order for the boards as reception continued to be lukewarm with little to no expressed interest (I think one person contacted me offline about them). If you all have an interest, I'm happy to order them, but I can't/won't do it if it's for four or five boards... setup costs on the board would kill it. You guys have to be more vocal! :)

[Jay Beller]

Dan - I'm new to the site and don't see any prior images of your design. Do you have any posted?

[Frank Corker]

Missed this one with it being an older post. Jay, nice work that you have done, I love the one with the Jewish guy on it, looks very effective in the star.

[Dan Hintz]

Dan - I'm new to the site and don't see any prior images of your design. Do you have any posted?
You can see some images of car windscreens lit using my multi-color units on my webpage, but that's it. There are no pics of the design I mentioned as I never shipped it off for manufacture... many like the idea, but when it comes time to actually purchase something, interest wanes. In my business, roughly 2/3rds of all people who express an interest in purchasing disappear into the woodwork when it comes time to actually pay... I have years of data to back that up, too.

[Jay Beller]

Thanks Frank. The images I posted of the 12" LED display is a good representation of the finished product. These images of the smaller ones doesn't come close to capturing the impact when the LEDs cycle through their colors.

[Rags Alan Ragland]

Jmes
I make light bases for most of my glass blasting plaques and I get the lights from: Vibelights. www.vibelights.com (http://www.vibelights.com) They have most everything
we would use for backlighting, edge lighting, etc.
Sorry I do not have a picture to post I am probably the only remaining human without a good Digital Camera. Could not afford one after buying my laser.
Dr. Rags

[Bob Keyes]

Contact Jim Good, this forum. I have bought some glowboards from him. Really inexpensive and all ready to engrave and run.

[Marc Myer]

I second that!
It's a2zengraving.com (jim.good@a2zengraving.com); and Jim's a pleasure to deal with.
Lots of new products coming on line now to get your brain working on ideas, inexpensive too.

[Jim Good]

Actually, thanks Bob and Marc!

Check's in the mail!!!:D

The referenced web address is my retail site that I've been ignoring for a long time! I've been too busy trying to get product out to my friends in the laser business. I'm pleased to hear people are finding customers.

Take a look at: http://wholesale.a2zengraving.com/

I desperately want to clean it up. I just wanted to get some pictures posted. It's confusing so email me and I can clear up the fog! I'm always trying to get more variety and colors. I'm working on the website to make it more user-friendly.

I can send a pricelist (that is equally confusing so I'm at least consistent!) for anyone interested.

Thanks!

Jim

P.S. I was going to wait until the website was completed before offering up a free sample pack for this forum. I'll get with Mike to get that done. No reason to wait for the website.

[Martin Boekers]

I've purchased smaller units from Jim Good, he's on the "creek" They are very reasonably priced and fit my needs!


Marty