Numerous 6" PVC duct work questions?

[Wes Billups]

I have a few questions regarding 6” PVC. I purchased all of the ASTM D-2729 6” PVC I need to connect my tools to the cyclone and have a few questions as I’ve never used 6” PVC for dust collection.

1. I need to buy some 6” flex hose for the short distance between PVC and tool. How well will the 6” hose from Lee-Valley fit over 6” PVC?

2. To get the system up and running I am planning on buying a couple of Lee-Valley’s blast gates and was wondering how well these fit 6” PVC?

3. My cyclone has a 7” inlet. Is it acceptable to cut a wooden doughnut to fit the smaller pipe into the inlet. I realize sharp transitions like this are typically not wanted but this will be a case where the air flow is going from smaller to larger pipe. If anyone has other ideas, I’m open to suggestions.

4. I could use any tips on assembling the system. The pipe seems unwieldy by itself and I hate to think of trying to hold a large assembled section up while trying to attach it to the ceiling. I’m also looking for input on ways to cut the pipe, I’m was thinking of building a wooden miter box to crosscut it with a handsaw.

5. Will friction fitting the pieces together be enough? I’m impressed with the fit and would be willing to caulk the joints if necessary. I just hate the idea of having screw tips projecting into my nice smooth walled pipe. Plus not screwing would make reconfiguration much easier.

I want to build my own blast gates but really want to have the table saw and router table hooked up prior to milling the wood for the blast gates. This is the reason for purchasing 2 – Lee Valley gates. I’m also open to suggestions for sources on the hose and blast gates. Lee Valley seems to have the best price/service so I thought I would go with them.

Thanks,
Wes Billups

[Matt Meiser]

1. I got my hose from Ken Craft and Oneida but I would assume it is the same size as Lee Valley's. It won't fit over the pipe. The hose and pipe have 6" ID. I used short pieces of 6" snaplock pipe which is 6" OD to connect the hose to the PVC. Sometimes it was necessary to use a pair of needlenose pliers to crimp the snaplock to make it slightly smaller to get the hose over. WEAR GLOVES!

2. I made my own so I can't answer that. cut all the circles with a beam cutter in the drill press--fast and accurate.

3. My cyclone has a 6" OD inlet and my PVC slipped right over. However I've done 6-4 transitions by using metal ductwork parts-- a metal transition and short sections of metal snaplock pipe. Theoretically you could probably heat and stretch the PVC too, but I haven't tried it.

4. I used all sorts of methods. Mine is hung with giant zip ties through hook eyes. I could usually start the zip tie and have enough give to move the pipe as needed. I also set it on a ladder, and just worked outward adding pieces as I went instead of putting up large assemblies. I cut mine with the miter saw. The PVC will gum up the blade so buy a throw-away blade for this.

5. I usually put 1-2 screws at each joint. Caulk after the sections are assembled, not before and try not to push it too deep into the joint. When you want to pull them apart, just cut the caulk with a utility knife.

[Carl Crout]

Your plumbing suppy has a rubber fitting that will convert from 7" to 6". It is basically a rubber boot with hose clamps on each end.

[Cody Colston]

[quote=Wes Billups;637436]I have a few questions regarding 6” PVC. I purchased all of the ASTM D-2729 6” PVC I need to connect my tools to the cyclone and have a few questions as I’ve never used 6” PVC for dust collection.

1. I need to buy some 6” flex hose for the short distance between PVC and tool. How well will the 6” hose from Lee-Valley fit over 6” PVC?

The hose I got from Oneida would not fit over the 6" pvc.

2. To get the system up and running I am planning on buying a couple of Lee-Valley’s blast gates and was wondering how well these fit 6” PVC?

I made my own blast gates. What I did was take a 8" length of pvc and cut out a ~1/4" vertical section on the bandsaw. I would then glue it back together with pvc glue. Now, I had a piece that the flex hose would fit over and it would also slip into the full 6" pipe. A sheet metal screw held it in place.

3. My cyclone has a 7” inlet. Is it acceptable to cut a wooden doughnut to fit the smaller pipe into the inlet. I realize sharp transitions like this are typically not wanted but this will be a case where the air flow is going from smaller to larger pipe. If anyone has other ideas, I’m open to suggestions.

I stuck the 6" pvc into the 7" inlet and used three sheet metal screws thru the 7" at 120 degree spacing to center it. I then caulked around it with silicone caulk. It's worked great.

4. I could use any tips on assembling the system. The pipe seems unwieldy by itself and I hate to think of trying to hold a large assembled section up while trying to attach it to the ceiling. I’m also looking for input on ways to cut the pipe, I’m was thinking of building a wooden miter box to crosscut it with a handsaw.

I made a 6" crosscut box for cutting the pvc with a handsaw. A quickgrip clamp across the top of the box will squeeze it enough to keep the pvc from moving. As for assembling, I just added one element at a time and used perforated tape for hangers. I screwed the hangers to my OSB ceiling.

5. Will friction fitting the pieces together be enough? I’m impressed with the fit and would be willing to caulk the joints if necessary. I just hate the idea of having screw tips projecting into my nice smooth walled pipe. Plus not screwing would make reconfiguration much easier.

I used 3/8" sheet metal screws to hold my components together. I did not caulk the connections but do have a bit of leakage around some of them. It hasn't seemed to hurt performance, though.

I want to build my own blast gates but really want to have the table saw and router table hooked up prior to milling the wood for the blast gates. This is the reason for purchasing 2 – Lee Valley gates. I’m also open to suggestions for sources on the hose and blast gates. Lee Valley seems to have the best price/service so I thought I would go with them.

As stated, I built my own out of 3/4" melamine with 1/4" hardboard gates. I have heard others praising the Lee Valley gates, however. Good luck on your installation.

[Doug Shepard]

...
2. To get the system up and running I am planning on buying a couple of Lee-Valley’s blast gates and was wondering how well these fit 6” PVC?
...


They dont, but I made them work with some rubber gasket tape
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=58586
It's a very snug fit. I had to use bar clamps to press the PVC onto the gate, but the next thinner rubber I first tried wasn't totally gap free (see the later correction on the thread). For the longest run where a clamp wouldn't work, I pressed it onto the gate using a hydraulic car jack, a couple of blocks, and the other end up against the rafters. If you go that route, dont apply any stretch pressure when applying the tape. The glue will creep in a day or so and you'll have to apply another piece in the gap. Good thing I found this out before actually screwing the PVC onto it where it wouldn't have been visible.

[Terry Hatfield]

I have a few questions regarding 6” PVC. I purchased all of the ASTM D-2729 6” PVC I need to connect my tools to the cyclone and have a few questions as I’ve never used 6” PVC for dust collection.

1. I need to buy some 6” flex hose for the short distance between PVC and tool. How well will the 6” hose from Lee-Valley fit over 6” PVC?

None of the 6" flex I have ever seen will fit over the PVC. Matt has the right idea. Buy a piece of 6" metal HVAC pipe and cut some short sections, 4" or so. The HVAC pipe should fit snugly into the PVC and into the flex. I secure the HVAC pipe to the PVC with a couple short screws and then caulk. A regular clamp will hold the flex on the HVAC pipe.

2. To get the system up and running I am planning on buying a couple of Lee-Valley’s blast gates and was wondering how well these fit 6” PVC?

No idea, I built my own but you typically can not go wrong with anything that Lee Valley sells.

3. My cyclone has a 7” inlet. Is it acceptable to cut a wooden doughnut to fit the smaller pipe into the inlet. I realize sharp transitions like this are typically not wanted but this will be a case where the air flow is going from smaller to larger pipe. If anyone has other ideas, I’m open to suggestions.

The rubber boot that Carl suggested would be great or a 7" to 6" metal HVAC reducer would work also. Both should be readily available at any of the big box stores and cost only a couple bucks.

4. I could use any tips on assembling the system. The pipe seems unwieldy by itself and I hate to think of trying to hold a large assembled section up while trying to attach it to the ceiling. I’m also looking for input on ways to cut the pipe, I’m was thinking of building a wooden miter box to crosscut it with a handsaw.

I attached the elbows and/or wyes to the pipe that is going to be attached to the ceiling and hung that much and then attached the down pipes. This is the time to call in a favor from a buddy or two if possible. It is pretty difficult to do by yourself. I just cut the PVC with a jig saw. Works great. Just plunge the blade in and cut away.

5. Will friction fitting the pieces together be enough? I’m impressed with the fit and would be willing to caulk the joints if necessary. I just hate the idea of having screw tips projecting into my nice smooth walled pipe. Plus not screwing would make reconfiguration much easier.

The connections will leak if you don't caulk them. I used bathroom adhesive caulk for all my joints. Caulk the connections that will be against the ceiling before you attach the pipe to the ceiling and then just caulk the rest after the system is together. The bathroom caulk seals everything up great and comes apart pretty easy if/when you need/want to change the configuration. You will have to support the down pipes very well if you don't use a few screws in the joints. DAMHIKT. A few short sheetmetal screws will be fine. The tips sticking out slightly on the inside of the pipe has never been an issue for me but I would certainly keep the screws as short as possible.

I want to build my own blast gates but really want to have the table saw and router table hooked up prior to milling the wood for the blast gates. This is the reason for purchasing 2 – Lee Valley gates. I’m also open to suggestions for sources on the hose and blast gates. Lee Valley seems to have the best price/service so I thought I would go with them.

I've bought hose from Wynn's Environmental and from Grizzly. Both worked fine for me. Both have about the same pricing. I have all homemade blast gates.


Thanks,
Wes Billups

Hope that helps!!!

Terry

[Michael Thomas]

Hi,

The Lee Valley 6 inch flex fits perfectly over 6 inch s&d pvc. It takes a little work but the fit could not be better. As previosly stated the blast gates are not a good fit. Clearvue cyclones sell blast gates that are perfectly fitted to 6 inch pvc. I just finished installing my cyclone system all with 6 inch pvc and would be happy to share my experience.

cheers Mike

[Bartee Lamar]

Michael,

A lot of us would like to hear your experience and see pictures..

Maybe you could start another thread.....

TIA

[Sean Troy]

Michael,

A lot of us would like to hear your experience and see pictures..

Maybe you could start another thread.....

TIA
Ditto. My Cyclone gets delivered next week and I'll be going all 6" also.

[Matt Meiser]

That's really nice that the LV hose fits without adaptation. It must be more flexible than the stuff I've used.

I forgot about the rubber sewer pipe connectors. When I first set my cyclone up the blower inlet faced down into the top of the cyclone and I used one of those to adapt the 7" outlet of the cyclone to the 6" inlet of the blower. Those have an amazing range and make for a smooth transition.

[Jim O'Dell]

The 4" and 6" I got from Woodworker's Supply is a nice tight fit on the PVC, had to use a hair dryer on the 6" to get it to go. My Clear Vue came with a short piece of Winn Environmental hose at the bottom, and I worked for 45 minutes with a hair dryer and could not get it to go over the pipe. I'm sure it would have gone into a fitting, but I didn't have one available. I'm happy with the WS flex. Seems plenty tough. Jim.

[Michael Thomas]

Hi Bartee and Sean, I am new to posting although I have been getting great info here for several months. I am not sure how to start a thread but will look into it. If you have specific questions I will be happy to reply. I just finished installing my clearvue( still finishing off lose ends and tweaking things). I installed the cyclone in a small room built into the garage. The idea was to help reduce the noise as well as have somewhere to put the garbage can so the bears can't get at it. All my ducting is under the cement floor except for an overhead run to the table saw. I simply remove a diamond back steel plate cover and insert my short length of flex hose to the machine. The shear volume of air that is moved is unbelievable!! There is no doubt that 6 inch duct is the wat to go. As for noise it is fairly quiet untill the machine is hooked up and then all the noise from the air rushing around the machinery increases the noise level a fair bit. However the trade off of not having any dust escape is not only worth it but some what amazing. I will try to post some pics if able...is there instructions somewhere on how to do this??

Cheers Mike

[Jim O'Dell]

Mike, glad you're posting. For the picture part, go here: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=25115
For new threads, there is a small button to the top left on the first page of each sub forum (not each thread) that says New Thread, then post as normal, just be sure to put a title on it! Won't post with out one, but does remind you. Jim.

[Michael Thomas]

Hi Jim , How do I resize my pics?? The average file size is 2.5 mb per pic.

Thanks Mike

ps I apologize for getting off topic on this thread..

[Bartee Lamar]

Hi Jim , How do I resize my pics?? The average file size is 2.5 mb per pic.

Thanks Mike

ps I apologize for getting off topic on this thread..

Download Picasa from Google (http://picasa.google.com/). It is GREAT. You have to do a little work so it will find you pictures, but I import directly from my camera into picasa. the use the "export" button at the bottom. I use 640 wide pictures at 80%. Pick an temp folder and then do the picture upload to this site. It works great.


You can also create excellent web albums Here is the Web Album of my Cyclone Delivery. (http://picasaweb.google.com/bartee/200707CycloneDelivery) ( a little stealth gloat )

Pictures are worth a 1000 words....

[Abe Low]

[quote=Wes Billups;637436]I have a few questions regarding 6” PVC. I purchased all of the ASTM D-2729 6” PVC I need to connect my tools to the cyclone and have a few questions as I’ve never used 6” PVC for dust collection.

3. My cyclone has a 7” inlet. Is it acceptable to cut a wooden doughnut to fit the smaller pipe into the inlet.

Bill, I had the same cyclone 7" inlet and used 6" snaplock ducting. I cut a plywood spacer using a circle jig on the bandsaw to fill the space between the snaplock and the inside of the 7" inlet, used 3 small screws at 120 degree spacing to hold it all together, then calk to make it airtight. Works like a charm.

[JayStPeter]

I3. My cyclone has a 7” inlet. Is it acceptable to cut a wooden doughnut to fit the smaller pipe into the inlet. I realize sharp transitions like this are typically not wanted but this will be a case where the air flow is going from smaller to larger pipe. If anyone has other ideas, I’m open to suggestions.

4. I could use any tips on assembling the system. The pipe seems unwieldy by itself and I hate to think of trying to hold a large assembled section up while trying to attach it to the ceiling. I’m also looking for input on ways to cut the pipe, I’m was thinking of building a wooden miter box to crosscut it with a handsaw.

5. Will friction fitting the pieces together be enough? I’m impressed with the fit and would be willing to caulk the joints if necessary. I just hate the idea of having screw tips projecting into my nice smooth walled pipe. Plus not screwing would make reconfiguration much easier.

I want to build my own blast gates but really want to have the table saw and router table hooked up prior to milling the wood for the blast gates. This is the reason for purchasing 2 – Lee Valley gates. I’m also open to suggestions for sources on the hose and blast gates. Lee Valley seems to have the best price/service so I thought I would go with them.

Thanks,
Wes Billups

3. Since Oneida recommends 2' straight pipe out of the cyclone in 7", the first thing I did was attach a 2' straight section of 7" metal duct bought from them. Then I used a 7x6x6 wye (since it made sense in my layout) to transition to 6". There are a couple places I had to transition from PVC to metal and back. To do this, I took the 6" metal and wrapped it with the self stick door/window seal foam and shoved it into the bell end of PVC. When you look inside the transition is almost seamless as the ID is the same for both and the metal shoves right in flush with the PVC. Some Al tape over the seam holds it all together well. You can use this method to use adjustable 6" elbows also if you need to make some funky angles.

4. It's heavy. I built sections on the floor then temporarily hung one end from the ceiling using a loop of string attached to a screw that would later hold pipe hanging metal for the permanent attachment. Then I levered the other side up and attached the same way. Finally fit the new section to the existing section and attach permanently using pipe hangers or custom made wooden brackets. The wooden brackets are useful near drops as the weight of the PVC can cause problems where the drops hang down. See #5 for more on this. If you don't hit a joist/stud, use toggle bolts. Most of the other kinds of drywall supports will eventually pull out due to the weight.
For cutting the pipe, I did as you described and made a sort of miter box out of 2x material I had laying around. Only I used a sawzall with a long blade to do the cutting.

5. Friction will hold, but will leak. I used Al tape for all of the joints (get the stuff that's $15/roll, not the stuff that's $6). However, the drops need screws somewhere or they will slowly come apart. You can either screw each piece at the joint or make some brackets to hang the pipe off the wall near the blast gate and screw there. But the tape alone will not hold hanging pipe like it will for metal. I made my own blast gates screwed them to cleats in the wall to hold up the stack. But, over time the weight of the stack made it difficult to open the gates. So, I had to go back and screw the joints to reduce the pressure on the gates. I can't remember the size screw I used, but it barely sticks into the pipe. They were some sort of self drilling screw that made things real easy. Reconfiguration is easy as the tape comes back off without too much hassle and the screws come back out without hassle also.

I put some extra wyes along the main lines for reconfiguration. I just capped them off using some shop made plugs made from the offcuts of my blast gate circles wrapped in foam. I also made cleanouts at the end of runs the same way.