Beginning neanderthal

[Bjenk Ellefsen]

Heya!

I'm beginning woodworking and I,m buying various hand tools. I'm very much attracted to working wood with hand tools. I find it safer and less stressful.

I'm almost done with my workbench. There is a question that haunted me last night. It just occured to me that in order to make drawers I will have to make grooves for the bottom and dadoes for other projects. How can I do that without touching a router ? Don't get me wrong, I do own a router but I would like to make grooves and dadoes without one.

My guess is that it takes planes. I know rabbet planes exist but what if I want a rabbet at a certain width ? The same goes for small grooves to hold the bottom of drawers (1/4").

If anyone could enlighten me I would be eternally grateful!

[Tyler Howell]

A back saw and chisel can do wonders.

Now Mr. Basher per SMC policy please submit your full name for the Creek. Thanks and welcome

[Wendell Wilkerson]

There are several ways to accomplish grooves, rabbets, and dados with hand tools. These are the ways I know about. As Tyler suggested you can use a saw to cut the walls of the channel then chisel out the waste. You can flatten the bottom with a router plane or a cranked neck chisel. As you summarized, there are also specialty plane designed for these tasks: rabbet planes, dado planes, plough planes (grooves in the face of stock), and fillister planes (grooves in the edge of stock). These can be made out of wood or metal. There are also metal multiplanes such as the famous Stanley #45's and #55's that can do these jobs and more. Check out "The Handplane Book" by Garrett Hack. It is kind of considered the bible of handplanes at least in terms of describing all the different types.


Wendell

[Bjenk Ellefsen]

There are several ways to accomplish grooves, rabbets, and dados with hand tools. These are the ways I know about. As Tyler suggested you can use a saw to cut the walls of the channel then chisel out the waste. You can flatten the bottom with a router plane or a cranked neck chisel. As you summarized, there are also specialty plane designed for these tasks: rabbet planes, dado planes, plough planes (grooves in the face of stock), and fillister planes (grooves in the edge of stock). These can be made out of wood or metal. There are also metal multiplanes such as the famous Stanley #45's and #55's that can do these jobs and more. Check out "The Handplane Book" by Garrett Hack. It is kind of considered the bible of handplanes at least in terms of describing all the different types.


Wendell


Thanks for the replies. I will look for Hack's book.

As for my nickname it should be corrected into my full name shortly. Sorry about that!

[Mark Singer]

A Record 44 Plough plane has various width blades. It has a depth stop and a fence. So you can make the width and depth of dado you want . The fence will allow you to put it a set distance from the edge. Should cost less than $50 on Ebay. This one doesn't sem to have blades...keep looking but it works nice and you can even use it to "clean-up " routered or table saw dados
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3268542088&category=1461

[Bjenk Ellefsen]

A back saw and chisel can do wonders.

Now Mr. Basher per SMC policy please submit your full name for the Creek. Thanks and welcome




Could anyone elaborate on the backsaw and chisel technique for a groove of 1/4" (say like in a 14" long piece) ?

Thanks again!

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Bjenk, A Stanley 78 (Millers Falls and Record also made one) will make nice Rabbets. A Stanley 39 makes dados, but you need a plane for each width you want to make. A stanley 45 or 55 can do both, but I'm finding out the 45 can be prone to tearout because it has a wide open mouth.

I've never made a dado with a saw and chisel, but basically, you outline the width of the dado with the saw kerf, then chisel out the waste in the middle. Then you clean up the bottom of the dado with a router plane such as the stanley 71.

BTW, I now I laugh when I hear someone say they want to use hand tools because they can make something by hand with fewer tools than they can with power tools. Maybe someone can, but its not me. I'm finding out that having the right tool is more important with hand tools than it is with power tools.



Good luck.

[Dave Anderson NH]

My method for doing dados is fairly simple though explaining it is harder than doing it. I mark (score) the edges of the dado with my markiing knife to prevent tearing the grain as the initial step. I then clamp a scrap board with the edge covering most of the scored cut. I then saw the dado to depth and repeat for the next cut. If the dado is stopped, I get as close as I can to the stopped end and define the end with vertical cuts from a chisel. For speed I remove most of the waste with a cranked neck chisel. The final smoothing of the dado bottom is with either my #71 or #271 router plane depending on the with. It's quite a simple operation though making the depth even along the whole length takes a little bit of practice.

[James Carmichael]

There are several ways to accomplish grooves, rabbets, and dados with hand tools. These are the ways I know about. As Tyler suggested you can use a saw to cut the walls of the channel then chisel out the waste. You can flatten the bottom with a router plane or a cranked neck chisel. As you summarized, there are also specialty plane designed for these tasks: rabbet planes, dado planes, plough planes (grooves in the face of stock), and fillister planes (grooves in the edge of stock). These can be made out of wood or metal. There are also metal multiplanes such as the famous Stanley #45's and #55's that can do these jobs and more. Check out "The Handplane Book" by Garrett Hack. It is kind of considered the bible of handplanes at least in terms of describing all the different types.


Wendell


Just getting into this stuff myself. Another excellent book is "PlaneCraft", I think first published in 1911 and looks like it was a textbook for English TradeSchools. It's a bit verbose and not long on illustrations, due to the era it was published in, but lots of good info on plane technique. It's available through Woodcraft.

[Bjenk Ellefsen]

I got an offer for a Stanley #45 used by a Carpenter no later than 2 years ago. He died and the plane was in his family for generations. His wife offered to sell it to me. It has a set of 20 blades and looks like it's in a very good condition. She said that for 60$ it could be a deal. So I might buy it and experiment a little with dadoes and grooves of various width. First i'll close the deal and then Ill let you know what I think of it.

[Wendell Wilkerson]

I got an offer for a Stanley #45 used by a Carpenter no later than 2 years ago. He died and the plane was in his family for generations. His wife offered to sell it to me. It has a set of 20 blades and looks like it's in a very good condition. She said that for 60$ it could be a deal. So I might buy it and experiment a little with dadoes and grooves of various width. First i'll close the deal and then Ill let you know what I think of it.

Congratulations, I believe you've just posted your first GLOAT. $60 for a #45 with a full set of cutters is a pretty good price. On eBay they go for at least $150 with that many cutters. I have no experience with #45's but I have heard they can be finicky. Here's a couple sites with more info on the #45

Patrick's Blood and Gore Planes #45 - #A45 (http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan6.htm)

Stanley Combination Planes (http://www.tooltrip.com/tooltrip8/stanley/comb-planes/stan-com.htm)

Patrick Leach is apparently not a big fan of the #45 but for $60 I would buy one in a heart beat! Unfortunately, the link to manual for the #45 seems to broken on the 2nd URL. If the plane doesn't come with a manual, there is a $10 book with a reprint of the manual in it:

The Stanley Rule and Level Company's Combination Planes
by Kenneth D. Roberts

There might be a free resource on the web that has the manual. I just haven't found it yet.

Now go buy that plane and have fun.

Wendell

[Bjenk Ellefsen]

Congratulations, I believe you've just posted your first GLOAT. $60 for a #45 with a full set of cutters is a pretty good price. On eBay they go for at least $150 with that many cutters. I have no experience with #45's but I have heard they can be finicky. Here's a couple sites with more info on the #45

Patrick's Blood and Gore Planes #45 - #A45 (http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan6.htm)

Stanley Combination Planes (http://www.tooltrip.com/tooltrip8/stanley/comb-planes/stan-com.htm)

Patrick Leach is apparently not a big fan of the #45 but for $60 I would buy one in a heart beat! Unfortunately, the link to manual for the #45 seems to broken on the 2nd URL. If the plane doesn't come with a manual, there is a $10 book with a reprint of the manual in it:

The Stanley Rule and Level Company's Combination Planes
by Kenneth D. Roberts

There might be a free resource on the web that has the manual. I just haven't found it yet.

Now go buy that plane and have fun.

Wendell


Thanks but it can't be a gloat yet as I haven't bought it yet. But I may do it.

[Wendell Wilkerson]

Thanks but it can't be a gloat yet as I haven't bought it yet. But I may do it.

You're right. I believe the correct term should have been PRE-GLOAT :)

Wendell