What should I expect from my new chisels?

[Rob Blaustein]

I just received a set of Ashley-Iles chisels (http://thebestthings.com/newtools/ashley_iles_bench.htm) from "The Best Things." I decided to get the ones with the octagonal handles--they're in between the standard ones and the butt chisels in length. I haven't even taken off that waxy protective coating that's on the blade, so can't say anything about the cutting edge, but I'm a bit disappointed with the fit and finish on a few of the chisels. One of them has a small crack in the handle, and the blade on the largest one (1 1/2") isn't well glued into the handle--it readily rotates when I turn the blade. It also doesn't seem to be centered on the handle. I've attached some pics to better convey my concerns.

Now I admit to being a novice when it comes to chisels and don't really know what to expect. I have a pretty bad set of chisels that I picked up from Costco (they don't really hold an edge well) and I have two older Marples chisels that I got back into shape, so is this is the first "nice" set that I've bought. And I chose them because of all of the nice things I've read here. But I'm surprised by the fit and finish and also surprised that they would send them out in this sort of condition. Just wondering what others thought.
--Rob
69502

69505

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[Mike K Wenzloff]

Just return the defective ones. Should be inspected before shipping...but bad stuff does leave any place.

Take care, Mike

[David DeCristoforo]

AIs are not the "best" or most expensive by any means but that's funky, not to mention defective. I'll bet you don't see any cracked handles on the ones in their advertising photos. Also the tangs should not be "glued" into the handles but "press fit" and they should not be loose. As Mike suggests, return the ones you are unhappy with and ask for replacements.

BTW, that crack is right on the ferrule pin hole...that handle is going to split right in two....

[Mike Cutler]

As stated by others, return the ones that don't meet your expectation. Especially the one that is cracked.

I got a set of Robert Sorby Mortise Chisels and had to return two of them. The handles were cracked in the package. It happens.

AI's are nice chisels. Once you get things straightened out, I'm sure you'll be very happy with them.

[Robert Rozaieski]

Rob,

I have the exact same ones from Lee and they are fantastic. Just a note, the handles are actually made by a different company, not A.I. They are the same company and same handles that are on the Robert Sorby chisels. Mass production of the handles leaves some not as good as others. Nature of the business I guess.

I echo what has alreay been said by the others. Contact Lee and return the bad ones. He is sure to make it right. I've dealt with him on a number of tools, old and new and he has always done me right. Very nice to deal with.

Bob

[James Mittlefehldt]

Rob what every one else said is correct, I have never dealt with that particular dealer, but if he is worth his salt he will make it right. You might want to contact him first in case he issues return numbers, and he will hopefully reimburse you the shipping as well.

Let us know what happens either way.

[Mark Singer]

Rob,
As stated this is not the norm....Lee at the Best Things is terrific guy and will take care of you , i am sure

[Rob Blaustein]

Also the tangs should not be "glued" into the handles but "press fit" and they should not be loose.

Thanks for the responses--I'll get in touch with them. Quick question about David's comment. I'm not sure I understand the difference between gluing and press fitting. I thought I just read something in FWW by Bob Smalser on putting handles on chisels where he recommended epoxy.

[Michael Hammers]

I had the same thing happen to me. The explanation was very logical. Items shipped from "across the pond" go through dramatic humidity and temperature changes which will account for the dammage.
The contraction and expansion causes the glued ferrules to come apart. It oes not affect the performance of the stel. I mean the ferrules on the AI seem decorative at best. The real working part of the chisel (the steel) is fine though.
For whatever reason it seems some folks put the AI chisels a little to far up the "quality" chisel line. They are nice chisels but the fit and finish is not that to be expected of higher end chisel.

[Jimmy Newman]

Michael, from my reading, the problem is not that the ferrules have come loose, the problem is that one of the blades spins freely in its handle and one handle has a big crack through the area that supports the tang. Those are pretty serious problems and I wouldn't think shipping them would do it - not in already dry, finished wood.

[Michael Hammers]

Yes you are correct. I should have been a bit more clear.
I had a blade that was "swimming" in the wood also, along with detached ferrules. I did not have a cracked handle. After speaking to "The Best Things" I was told that the handles indeed are fitted from another source along with the ferrules. I was also told they were "epoxied" to the blade.
I figure that there is no way of knowing if the wood was prpoerly dried and prepared for the handles, and I suspect that from all the common problems occasionally popping up that they are not. Since TBT farms that out I would assume they do not either.
You are deffinately correct in that the blade should be pressed and not glued. It is indeed a very serious problem. I opted out all together on the chisels once I saw what was wrong.
That being said, I was taken care of splendidly by The Best Things. No problems at all. Also FWIW, I spoke to TFWW and they had not that problem, mainly I suspect because they do not offer that handle.
Cheers!

[Rob Blaustein]

Thanks again for the additional comments. I realize I should probably clarify something I wrote. I wrote that the blade on the larger chisel "readily rotates." What I meant was that if I apply some torque I can rotate the blade--but it does take some force and I just didn't know if this was normal for this size chisel. I wouldn't say that it "spins freely" or is "swimming," terms which others have used in their responses, since I do have to apply some force. For example, it's certainly not about to fall out if I hold it with the handle pointing up.
--Rob

[Mike K Wenzloff]

The AI chisels are handled by a company AI contracts out to. Same company doing some of the Sorby handles. It isn't that TBT contracts these out.

There was a problem early on with cracking ferrules that affected all the retailers. Same company doing the handling then, too, afaik.

But there is a huge swing in moisture from England to the US. Add to that exotics for chisel handles that is difficult to dry in good circumstances and stuff is going to happen occassionaly.

Epoxing handles onto blades isn't a problem. Many recommed it (especially for socketed handles where a little dab will do ya).

Take care, Mike

[David DeCristoforo]

Thanks for the responses--I'll get in touch with them. Quick question about David's comment. I'm not sure I understand the difference between gluing and press fitting. I thought I just read something in FWW by Bob Smalser on putting handles on chisels where he recommended epoxy.

The tangs on the chisel blades should be fitted into the handles tightly enough to secure them. Over time, due to seasonal wood movement, a handle may get loose. But a few good smacks on the end of the handle should be sufficent to "suck" the tang back into the socket. Epoxy may help prevent this but it should not be considered a substitute for proper fitting of the handle.

[Wiley Horne]

Hi All,

This handling problem with The Best Things' AI chisels is going to continue until TBT hits 'reject'--until people start doing like Michael did, and reject the lot. If multiple chisels are showing handling problems, then they're all suspect.

Putting up with this problem, and working with TBT to salvage chisels, is feeding the problem, not solving it. I say, reject the lot, and rethink the situation.

Wiley

[Joel Moskowitz]

The AI chisels are handled by a company AI contracts out to. Same company doing some of the Sorby handles. It isn't that TBT contracts these out.

There was a problem early on with cracking ferrules that affected all the retailers. Same company doing the handling then, too, afaik.

But there is a huge swing in moisture from England to the US. Add to that exotics for chisel handles that is difficult to dry in good circumstances and stuff is going to happen occassionaly.

Epoxing handles onto blades isn't a problem. Many recommed it (especially for socketed handles where a little dab will do ya).

Take care, Mike


This is incorrect. AI chisels are handled usually by Barry Iles. However the octoganal handled chisels are not an official AI style, are shortened regular chisels and custom made only for THBT. I know a few years ago they were distinctly NOT handled by AI I don't know what they do now. The handles themselves are made by the last English handlemaker and this might be the source of confusion. The rest of their tools are also handled by Barry or their cutler .
A few years ago AI did have a small problem with one batch of chisels where the ferrules were cracking. Very few arrived in the states and I know we exchanged about 1/2 dozen chisels.

Rosewood is a difficult material to handle as it doesn't compress and of course is brittle. You will find them on exhibition sets of chisels but never anything meant to be struck. LN which sells Rosewood handles for their chisels cautions against striking them on thier website. Epoxying a handle to a chisel is a shortterm fix that no professional cutler would use. We have never had a problem with handles put on by AI.

[Mike K Wenzloff]

Well, thank you for jumping in, Joel.

Yes, I was unspecific about which handles are done by this other company. As the thread was about the London pattern handles, I assumed it would be clear I meant them. Thank you for clearing that up.

I won't argue with you about the number of returns you had concerning the ferrules--I assume you know! But you are not the only retailer. This occurred in England and elsewhere, too. Whatever the problem was, it was real. It is also true that since that was resolved, I haven't heard of the ferrule issue since.

At least we agree about the appropriateness of RW for chisel handles. That's a plus <g>.

Take care, Mike

[Rob Blaustein]

Well, I've learned quite a bit today from the replies to my questions as well as my email exchanges and very pleasant phone conversation with Lee at The Best Things. There are a number of factors that are at play and some of them involve practices over seas that are difficult for vendors here to control. One thing pointed out here, and that Lee also mentioned was that rosewood is maybe not an ideal wood for a chisel handle. I had no idea and simply chose it over beech because it looked a bit nicer. Lee was eager to make me happy and was more than willing to replace or exchange for refund any item that I wasn't happy with. He agreed that there were some fit/finish issues with AI but that he still felt that they functioned quite well and were a good value. He saw the pics I posted here and thought the crack was most likely cosmetic and regretted that they missed it (they would normally have sold that as a 'second' on ebay). In the end I opted to hold on to both of the "problem" chisels and will use them and see how things go. Lee told me that he would happily replace the one with the small crack should it ever break, and would also replace the bigger one if I find it causes problems too. I thought he was very gracious and I appreciated his desire to "make it right" just as others suggested he would. I would gladly purchase from TBT again in the future. And I hope at some point to put these chisels through their paces and to report back with what I think. Thanks again for your input.
--Rob

[Ken Werner]

Just curious Rob, but did Lee offer to reimburse return shipping? The crack in the photo looks perhaps more than cosmetic.

[Rob Blaustein]

Just curious Rob, but did Lee offer to reimburse return shipping? The crack in the photo looks perhaps more than cosmetic.

Yes he did. And as I say, I was the one who decided to keep it since he agreed to send me a new one if need be.

[Carl Crout]

For some reason their has been alot of hype about how good the Ashleys are but I didn't order them. I ordered the Two Cherries butt chisels. All of my other German chisels are good and I reckon these will be too. I will let you know when they get here as they are on the way from Germany......

[Bob Smalser]

IMG_53_0180a.jpg

Good chisels, but expect trouble from those brass ferrules with the dimples in them. They are usually way too thin, and will crack in use.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/5090019/72454914.jpg

The Footprints I used for 25 years were also good chisels downgraded with the same dimpled ferrules, and when I sold them off I had to repair most of the ferrules using hot epoxy.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/5305809/67802795.jpg

If you ever have to rehandle them, hydraulic repair shops sell nice, thick brass hose ferrules in around 20 sizes that are perfect for tools. All of 9-16 cents each, too. Makes you wonder why they didn't do it right the first time.

[Terry Beadle]

I received a set of six London Pattern AI chisels and couldn't be happier. They sharpen quickly. Less than 5 minutes to dead flat backs. I've been using them on a rock maple tail vice project and they are sweet. They do required a 30 to 35 degree micro bevel in tough stock. All chisles do.

The quality control issue is disheartening. Quality and reputation are paramont. The crack is not acceptable to me. I know it's hard to let go of something fine but right is right. They should have quality controls that do not allow such a defect to be shipped and they are not doing them selves a favor by dumping defects on Ebay. Further they should have insisted on sending you a replacement ( hopefully one that's been looked at ) and at no cost. Let you keep the defect and do a custom home made handle for it if you like.

It reminds me of the story of the Roll Royce. A guy had one and it broke down on the side of the road. He called the Rolls dealer and the dealer showed up with a new one already titled to the client. He towed the other off and said "Rolls do not break down. It never happened."... and then he left.

The guy drove his Rolls away. What got towed was not a Rolls.

AI only has Quality to sell. I guess I got the AI's.... hoot!

Happy shavings..

[Matthew Platt]

It's very easy to take the standard consumerist line that your goods should be perfect when they arrive, and although I'm sure any retailer good enough to become an Ashley Iles dealer will be more than happy to replace the problem item without question, it is worth reminding ourselves what we are asking of the wood.

To begin with, Rosewood is probably not the ideal material for making chisel handles. Yes it looks good, but it is also hard, comparatively brittle and, as anyone who has worked with it will verify, on rare occasions prone to lines of weakness within the grain.

The thin sidewall section that has been drilled to accept the tang, is compressed at one end between the tang the ferrule and pushed out from within at the other when the handle is knocked on, so one end is in expansive tension and the other in compression.

It has then shipped from relatively humid Lincolnshire, to not so humid Virginia, then back to fairly humid Boston, presumably pausing along the way to experience the full range of expansion and contraction as it acclimatises to it's new surroundings. Let's face it, it may even have been inspected before dispatch and then cracked in transit from TBT to you.

Worth sending back for a replacement under your guarantee? Most definitely - that's what it's there for.

But at the end of the day, we of all people should be able to appreciate that the wonderful material with which we choose to work, has limitations as well as many advantages. Look on the bright side - if all the rest of the handles have been through all that and survived, they'll probably be good for a hundred years!

[Pam Niedermayer]

Good points, Matthew, except that I don't know which Virginia you're living in. I spent my first 25 years in Richmond, then 10 in DC, then 20 in Boston/Cape Cod. All of those places were humid in the extreme.

Pam

[Matthew Platt]

Hi Pam,

I stand corrected; I was basing this on a comparison of the humidities shown on http://www.wunderground.com yesterday. Chesapeake was 45% compared with 68% in Boston, today it's 92% in Chesapeake and 56% in Boston!