Festool Domino Questions (lots of them)

[Brad Olson]

I am considering purchasing a Festool Domino and I have some questions, both technical and stylistic for those of you using the system.

First the technical questions...

1) How hard is it to hook up or a regular shopvac?

2) Are the Festool vac's really worth $300+? Festool mini vs. CT22 vs. Ct33? Which vac is best if you intend to use the guided circular saw system and sanders?

3) Do you have to use a vacuum with it, or will it just spew the chips out anywhere?



Now the stylistic/strength questions

4) Are two dominos in place of a regular M&T of similar strength?

5) I currently have a hollow chisel mortiser and a tennon jig. Do you have any use for your tennon jig and hollow chisel mortiser? One of my attractions to the domino is that it would take the place of my hollow chisel mortiser and tennon jig and in the case of the mortiser would save a LOT of storage space for a tool I don't use very frequently. I'm on the fence about getting rid of the tennon jig, but would love to get rid of the mortiser if the domino is better.

6) Was the domino worth $700 + $240 for the starter kit for being very specialized

7) if you use the domino like a biscuit joiner and just make a center line, is there enough of side to side play to deal with subtle misalignments of the mortise?


Thanks for any insight you might have as this is a huge investment and it is too expensive to make a mistake for my budget. Also I am not looking for a flame war on festool/domino/etc. I'm just looking for some info for making a purchase decision.

[Joe Jensen]

Here are my answers, hopefully helpful.
1) Not hard, but you will want a Festool hose as it has a special end to connect to their tools. I think there is an adaptor to fit standard shop vacs.

2) The Festool vacs are nice. They are reasonably quiet, they start when the tool is turned on and stop when the tool is stopped, and they have HEPA filtration. Here is a drastic example of why filtration is important. We had a kitchen counter top that was tiled and the grout was in bad shape. I planned to surprise my wife with redoing it when she left for most of a Saturday. Knowing she is clean freak I brought the shop vac in and vacuumed as I went keeping things very clean. When my wife arrived home at the end of the day (sadly I was only 50% done), she sceaamed "what in the *#($*& happened here". I looked up after nearly 8 hours of continuous work to find a very fine layer of white grout dust over everything in the house. Apparently fine grout dust is finer than what Sears shop vac filters can filter. I have a higher end vac like the Festool that is more powerful and more quiet. Sears type vacs are around 90db, the Festool 72db, and mine is 56db. Another good choice is a Fein vac at 59db. Mine is an Alto at around $700. The filtration, autostart, and quiet are REALLY nice. Also, the hose will run around $80, but you get one with the Festool vac.

3) Don't have to vacuum any more than with a biscuit jointer. I'd use a shop vac before nothing.

4) 3 Dominos are plenty strong. Frankly, for most everything biscuits or dowels are plenty strong. I never use anything but a but joint when gluing up panels and table tops and in 30 years I've never had a failure. Dominos are stronger than biscuits, will fit where biscuits won't, but the Domino is slower than a biscuit jointer.

5) I've had a drill press attachment and a set of Swiss chisels for the mortiser for over 10 years and never used it. I used biscuits. I bought a Powermatic mortiser on a screaming AMAZON deal for around $200 delivered and received it a week before I won a Domino. I haven't even set up the Powermatic mortiser. I will be selling it.

6) Hard to say. I won mine from Festool. I really like it, but as a hobbiest is a luxury item.

7) The Domino has three width settings for the tenons. Tight, a little slop, and more slop. Not a problem.

[Dan Lautner]

2) Yes they are worth the money. I have the mid size and think its the best capacity vs weight of the three. The festool vacs have tool start option and variable speed which is a must for sanding. They also have hepa filter and great features such as the filter cleaner and sysatiner mount.


3) You do not have to use the vac but you will get better cuts and no mess with the vac.


4) That would depend on the size of the tenon. I have used the largest dominos to miter 2 x12 stock and did not feel the need to double up.

5) Short of doing very large M and T work (entry doors, etc..) the Domino can handle all loose tenon joints quickly and is deadly accurate.

6) The best money I have spent in a long time. I was at my local dealer the first day they came out and was smiling for the whole week while playing with it.

7) I like to use the tightest setting for all joints but you can increase the slop on non aligning mortises

Go buy the Domino and the vac and try it for a week or so. Festool will take it back no questions asked if you want to return it before 30 days. You are taking no risk at all. I can bet you will be keeping it. I think the Domino is the one tool I own that saves me a ton of time every time I pick it up. In the time it takes to change a router bit I can have a nice joint made with the Domino.

Dan

[Don Bullock]

First, I don't own any Festool products. My comment is on the price of the vacuum. If you look at most high end vacuums for your house your will see that the Festool vacuum isn't over priced. My wife anf I have found out the hard way (by buying cheap vacuums) that this is a place where you get what you pay for. If I had the cash today to buy some Festool equipment, I'd certainly get one of their "packages" that includes the vacuum. They are a "good deal."

[William Nimmo]

I remember reading that a vacuum must be attached to the domino in order for it to work properly. And yes the vacuums are the best.
I have three of them

[Gary Keedwell]

This tool seemingly is marketed to those where time is money, or the financially endowed hobbyist.

Not your average hobbyist grade tool and priced accordingly.:)

Gary K.

[Jason White]

I once hooked my Festool vac (CT22) to a floor sander that already had an on-board vacuum that wasn't cutting it.

Zero dust!!

JW


I am considering purchasing a Festool Domino and I have some questions, both technical and stylistic for those of you using the system.

First the technical questions...

1) How hard is it to hook up or a regular shopvac?

2) Are the Festool vac's really worth $300+? Festool mini vs. CT22 vs. Ct33? Which vac is best if you intend to use the guided circular saw system and sanders?

3) Do you have to use a vacuum with it, or will it just spew the chips out anywhere?



Now the stylistic/strength questions

4) Are two dominos in place of a regular M&T of similar strength?

5) I currently have a hollow chisel mortiser and a tennon jig. Do you have any use for your tennon jig and hollow chisel mortiser? One of my attractions to the domino is that it would take the place of my hollow chisel mortiser and tennon jig and in the case of the mortiser would save a LOT of storage space for a tool I don't use very frequently. I'm on the fence about getting rid of the tennon jig, but would love to get rid of the mortiser if the domino is better.

6) Was the domino worth $700 + $240 for the starter kit for being very specialized

7) if you use the domino like a biscuit joiner and just make a center line, is there enough of side to side play to deal with subtle misalignments of the mortise?


Thanks for any insight you might have as this is a huge investment and it is too expensive to make a mistake for my budget. Also I am not looking for a flame war on festool/domino/etc. I'm just looking for some info for making a purchase decision.

[Paul Kinneberg]

I too thought Festool products were pricey but aftyer using a CT22 for about a year I have to say, unbeilevable!! I would not be without it and as money permits I will start to by more Festool equipment if its half as good as this vacum it is worth it.

[Matt Meiser]

I don't have the Domino, but I do have a sander and a vac. Absolutely no regrets. I've even sanded drywall with virtually no dust.

[Ted Miller]

Brad, I purchased the domino when it was relased and it has changed the way I do all my joints in my shop. I have not done any DTs since the purchase and I can assemble carcasses, drawers, cab doors, face frames and all the furniture I have done.

I have both the CT22 and the Midi and I could not be happier with their performance. I know the bage get a bit costly when you can fill them quickly depending on how much work you do. So when the bags fill I take them out of the vac and let my DC suck the bag clean and reuse the bag. I have donw this maybe 10 times on the CT bag and it still works perfect. Also these bags pack that dust in there so tight its crazy. I would say the only tool I may see a little bit of dust on the floor is with the jigsaw.

I had to do some adjustments to the domino when it arrived on the pin and the sight gauge but it works perfect now.

I would say that in just time the tool has paid for itself and my poor biscuit jointers since all by themselves on the upper shelf in my shop.

I am not one of those brand name kind of guys. I find the best tool for the job I am doing and if can make my jobs go faster with better results then I make the purchase...

[Gary Keedwell]

I don't have the Domino, but I do have a sander and a vac. Absolutely no regrets. I've even sanded drywall with virtually no dust.
I too, have a Festool sander and vac. plus I have their cordless drill. I got delusional one nite and actually thought of ordering one but then realized that I'm not prolific enough to really justify one.
If I had a big job (not going to happen--I'm a hobbyist) then I would think about it because in the long run it might pay for itself. But realistically, it would sit idle collecting dust most of the time.:(
Gary K.

[Bob Childress]

Now, Gary. I've got my eye on you. :p

[Gary Keedwell]

Now, Gary. I've got my eye on you. :p
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/evsac/Video/Bounce.gif:D :D :D Bob...Your too funny!!!

Gary K.;)

[Emmanuel Weber]

1/ 2/ 3/ I would recommend to use a shop vac. There is an adpater available to hook it up to a standard one but if you can afford the CT 22 or 33 it is definitively a very good unit.

4/ Dominos are very strong. You generally can put more than one if needed.

5/ The size of the mortise and tenon are limited with the domino so you might still find some usage for them.

6/ I am just a hobbyist but in my case it did change my method of construction and let me build stuff faster and with less erros. I am using the domino for carcasse joinery, face frame and door construction. (I sold my biscuit jointer). For me it was one of the best investment.

7/ You have a setting on the domino that let you choose how much play to allow.

[Matt Meiser]

BTW, a festool hose will probably fit a standard shop vac. I haven't tried it, but I know that my standard shop vac hose fits my festool vac. The Festool hoses are pretty nice.

[Randy Klein]

BTW, a festool hose will probably fit a standard shop vac. I haven't tried it, but I know that my standard shop vac hose fits my festool vac. The Festool hoses are pretty nice.

I have a Ridgid shop vac and the Festool hose fits its just fine.

[John Stevens]

3) Do you have to use a vacuum with it, or will it just spew the chips out anywhere?


Yes, you must use a vac with the Domino or it will clog. That's according to the manual--I work indoors, so I wouldn't bother trying to use it without dust collection.




4) Are two dominos in place of a regular M&T of similar strength?



All I can tell you is that you can design just about any piece of furniture so as to get adequate strength with a domino joint. Remember, it's not important whether one joint is stronger than another, it's only important that you choose a joint that's strong enough for the job. It's kinda like a variation on the "bear joke"--it doesn't matter that your buddy can outrun you, just as long as you can outrun the bear.



6) Was the domino worth $700 + $240 for the starter kit for being very specialized


Only you can answer that, really. But here's how I look at it. When I bought a Lamello biscuit joiner a few years ago, my productivity went up drastically, and nobody can tell I used biscuits instead of traditional M&T joints. The Domino is almost as fast as a biscuit joiner, and the joints are stronger in almost all applications.




7) if you use the domino like a biscuit joiner and just make a center line, is there enough of side to side play to deal with subtle misalignments of the mortise?


Yes--the Domino actually has a setting that either cuts the mortise to the exact size or allows a little side-to-side play. One of the really smart things about the Domino is that it's easy to get a single domino joint to align your pieces perfectly. And when you're making multiple connections, like edge-to-edge joints, it's easy to make one of the connections dead-on for alignment, and then make the others with a little "wiggle room" from side to side. Specific info on this in Rick Christopherson's manual, which you can find here:

http://festool.home.att.net/

Best of luck with your decision. Two things to keep in mind--in the US and Canada, Festool gives you a 30-day money-back trial period. So if you decided you didn't like it within the trial period, all you'd end up paying would be the shipping costs. And if you decided to sell your Domino a few years down the line, you'd probably get a good price for it.

Regards,

John

[Brad Olson]

Thanks for your help everyone, I know festool questions are common and I appreciate hands on responses.

I have one more question....

What is the difference between the CT22 and the mini/midi vacs (other than about $100)?

I ultimately am a hobbyist and only plan (but you never know if the festool bug will bite) to buy the guided saw system and MFT table.

Would the mini or midi vac sufice to service these tools or should I really be looking at the CT22? Again while the festool sanders are nice (I've tried them), I really like my smooth planes and don't see replacing thousands of dollars of smooth planes with thousands of dollars of sanders :) :)


I did a bit of reading while waiting for replies and I think I am sold on the domino idea. While I do have machines for M&T joints, I usually end up cutting them by hand because it is such a PITA to setup a tennon jig and mortiser for a specific project.

[Gary Keedwell]

I'm a hobbyist and I'm filthy rich and I buy any tool that I want......Oh I'm sorry:p daydreaming again :eek: :cool: :D

Gary K.

[Brad Olson]

I'm a hobbyist and I'm filthy rich and I buy any tool that I want......Oh I'm sorry:p daydreaming again :eek: :cool: :D

Gary K.


Me too, but I am not so sure my wife is exactly up on how much my Armada of handplanes has cost :) :).

[Rick Christopherson]

It's kinda like a variation on the "bear joke"--it doesn't matter that your buddy can outrun you, just as long as you can outrun the bear. I got a chuckle out of this, but I believe you have it backward. Since you can't out run a bear, it is only important that you can outrun your buddy. (In any event, with your sense of morality, I am glad I don't go camping with you.) :D

[Matt Meiser]

What is the difference between the CT22 and the mini/midi vacs (other than about $100)?

About 33% more CFM and 12% higher vacuum. The CT22 includes a HEPA filter while the Mini/Midi don't or at least don't say that they do. I chose the CT22 because of these, as well as the fact that the CT22 has a bigger bag.

[John Stevens]

What is the difference between the CT22 and the mini/midi vacs (other than about $100)?


The difference is the size of the bag. I own a CT11, an older version that is no longer sold in the US. The CT11 has about the same bag size as the Midi...and if I were buying today, I'd buy the CT22, with about twice the capacity per bag. It's not like I have to change bags at the end of every project, but the savings in bag cost would make up the difference in price over the life of the tool. No doubt about it. And although it's easy enough to change bags, it can definitely chip away at your momentum when you're moving along on a project.



While I do have machines for M&T joints, I usually end up cutting them by hand because it is such a PITA to setup a tennon jig and mortiser for a specific project.

Yeah, you would definitely find the Domino useful.

Regards,

John

[John Stevens]

I got a chuckle out of this, but I believe you have it backward.


Yup, that was the variation on the joke


Since you can't out run a bear...

Well, certainly not with that kind of attitude ;)

Regards,

John

[Bob Marino]

The difference is the size of the bag. I own a CT11, an older version that is no longer sold in the US. The CT11 has about the same bag size as the Midi...and if I were buying today, I'd buy the CT22, with about twice the capacity per bag. It's not like I have to change bags at the end of every project, but the savings in bag cost would make up the difference in price over the life of the tool. No doubt about it. And although it's easy enough to change bags, it can definitely chip away at your momentum when you're moving along on a project.



Yeah, you would definitely find the Domino useful.

Regards,

John
John,

It also the filters - the CT 22 and 33's have HEPA filters, while the MINI and MIDI's have a filtration level of about one micron.

Bob

[Terry Fogarty]

3) Do you have to use a vacuum with it, or will it just spew the chips out anywhere?



Highly recomended. The Domino produces fine granule type dust, and even though its not messy, you can get tiny bits sitting between the fence plate and your work piece. And because the Domino is so incredibly accurate, a few 0.5mm granules will raise the height of the mortice and throw that accuracy out.

You can keep on dusting it down, but after a while that becomes a pain in the bum:)

[Ted Miller]

Brad, I keep the CT22 for the shop and the Midi goes with to job sites. Its only 5 lbs less but easier to move around and fits into small places. The suction is still great.

Nothing better than getting compliments on how clean I work in someones house and these vacs/tools make it possible...

[Greg Mann]

I got a chuckle out of this, but I believe you have it backward. Since you can't out run a bear, it is only important that you can outrun your buddy. (In any event, with your sense of morality, I am glad I don't go camping with you.) :D

Rick,

Actually, the way John told the joke is probably appropriate to his case. Since his wife is a world-class distance runner he probably has a better chance outrunning the bear.

Greg