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Don Taylor
08-04-2007, 1:42 AM
So much for the enjoyment of spending a little time sharing ideas with other wood workers. I clicked on New Posts and read two of them. On both, EZ took over and turned it into a bashing contest. The whole reason I come to the forums is to learn the different ways other folks have of doing things.

I will not stand by and watch while Dino and the boys tell experienced people that if they don't use the "EZ" system they are wrong. It is very confusing to the new comers asking the questions for someone to pop up and start a fight while putting a plug in for their own sales.

They have already been removed from one woodworking forum for refusing to act civil.

Will one of you moderators please remove my name from the membership? I thank you for having me and do not expect a refund for my contribution.

Don

Keith Outten
08-04-2007, 5:19 AM
Don,

If you will report the threads to any of our Staff we will look into the issue and take corrective action. Everyone here is bound to abide by our Terms Of Service (TOS) and we apply the rules equally to all of our Members. Our TOS equally applies to Manufacturers Forums and those who frequent them.

The Creek is supported by the donations of our Members and our Members come first here. Anyone who has a problem or concern please report it to a Moderator or Administrator and it will be resolved in a timely manner.

Don I am sending you a Private Message with my personal phone number. Please call me when you have an opportunity, I am intersted in your comments and concerns.

.

Al Willits
08-04-2007, 9:59 AM
No offense Don, but if your gonna quit every forum that has a bad post or two, I think your gonna run out of forums.

Keith has made some very good suggestions, I'd think they may be a better alternative to leaving, your choice though.

Al

Gary Keedwell
08-04-2007, 10:23 AM
No offense Don, but if your gonna quit every forum that has a bad post or two, I think your gonna run out of forums.

Keith has made some very good suggestions, I'd think they may be a better alternative to leaving, your choice though.

Al
I have to agree with you Al. You have to take the good (95% of the Time) with the bad (5%). I would take that ratio with my life any day.( Marriage, job,friendships, etc.)

Gary K.

John Shuk
08-04-2007, 10:27 AM
Don,
It'd be a bummer if you leave. There is really alot more to enjoy around here than the EZ Festool wars. Believe me when I say that this is one of the tamest places on the web.
I trust Keith to keep it that way.
Every forum has it's touchy subject. This seems to be ours.
I don't see anything wrong with the experienced users discussing strength or weakness of a particular system. The sarcasm and strutting gets to be a bit much.
I respect festool for what they have done. Build a tool system that by all user accounts is a pleasure to use. Obviously they have great engineers at their disposal and great manufacturing.
I have met Dino and I find that he is a working man who has solved a bunch of problems through practical engineering. He is a very nice guy and a very smart guy.
Honestly I don't get the whole thing.
When someone asks about a new cabinet saw it doesn't turn into this kind of mess.
Is it that important to convince somebody you're right?

Jim O'Dell
08-04-2007, 10:36 AM
Sorry, Don. I guess I havn't seen what you are talking about. I use the new posts quite often and, yes I see the EZ posts, and even read some as I'd like to have the system somewhere down the line. but most of them are in the EZ Forum. I look at threads like these, and often times the dust collecton threads, and try to remind myself that the people talking here believe stongly in the product they are taling about, and want others to see that there is a different way to do the same task. Don't take their comments personally. I truly believe that it is not intended to be sent in that manner. Take it as information, and decide if it works for you or not. If you feel strongly another direction, be diplomatic but voice your view. This type of discussion, by the way, is education in it's purest form. Not one sided as formal education normally is, but learning from other's experiences. To me that is the beauty of our woodworking forums. It's just that the format sometimes lends itself to misunderstandings. One of these days we will have a forum where we reply with our voices, and others will hear us talk, instead of just the written word. Then the inflections in the voice will be able to be interpreted, and misinterpreted ;) , but will probably lead to less problems than just the written word.
I hope you change your mind, and stay around. We need your voice too! Jim.

Matt Meiser
08-04-2007, 10:56 AM
I don't see it either. I think I know one of the treads you are talking about--and in that case someone posted a thread to the EZ Smart forum (a manufacturers forum) and someone jumped in said that the OP should use a slider. IMHO, that was out of line. The particular forum is a paid manufacturers forum and Dino is certainly entitled to promote his products there.

Al Willits
08-04-2007, 3:39 PM
I stay off the EZ forum, I own the system and it does what I wanted it to, and that was to help me cut a straight line..
But its the almost cult like obsession that some have with the system that I find offensive, to make a comment that the system does not do everything is asking for swift retribution, so I try and stay away, I would suggest Don do the same and enjoy the rest of the forum.

Ever forum I've ever seen has its good and bad points to me, pick what ya want and disreguard the rest.

Al...who's probably beat this horse one to many times already :)

Matt Meiser
08-04-2007, 4:13 PM
Dino, what I meant to say was that it was out of line for the poster to jump all over you for selling your product in your forum. It was fine to suggest an alternative.

Bart Leetch
08-04-2007, 4:34 PM
I think the EZ idea is great but it changes so fast & there is so much to choose from it get confusing & then the way some of the posts have been in the past I just don't go there anymore. My needs are simple & I can get by with a shop built jig & the cost is much less.

But I still come to Sawmill Creek.:D

Martin Shupe
08-05-2007, 1:38 AM
When I come to the Creek, I use the "New Posts" feature. I only wish I could exclude certain forums from the new posts. It would certainly cut down on the number of pages I need to go through when I am gone for a week.

I tried to put "Dino" on my ignore list, but could not, since he is a moderator. There is something wrong with that. No offense, Dino, I am just not interested in your product, and I was not interested in the guy selling wood a while back, either.

Perhaps if Dino could be ignored, the folks that have a problem with him could do just that, and it might solve some perceived problems around here. Just a thought.

I try to stay out of arguments in general, but it seems this one keeps cropping up over and over again. Just an observation from (hopefully) an impartial observer.

Perhaps Keith can work something out that will satisfy everyone's concerns.

David G Baker
08-05-2007, 9:47 AM
I have never been to the "New Post" area so I really do not know about the heated discussions. The areas where I spend my time are super and I can not recall any heated discussions taking place in them. The "Off Topic" and "General Woodworking" have been all that I need with the exception of visiting the "Finishing" area once in a while.

Gary Keedwell
08-05-2007, 10:06 AM
I echo Davids comments. I visit the same three topics. I don't use the "ignore" or the "new posts" features. I don't read every post...just the ones that catch my interest.
Nobody is forcing anybody to read the more controversial threads. It is just like the grocery store. Just walk by the things that you don't want.;)

Gary K.

Michael Lutz
08-05-2007, 10:43 AM
Don,

I don't read every post, just the ones that interest me. I do frequent the EZ forum and bought their rail system. It does get a little preachy with regards to safety. Safety is a topic that it seems to mean different things to different people. Two recent threads all became rather contencious over safety issues: cutting free hand on a TS and the F vs Ez thread. Both involve the TS and people's differing opinions of Safety. On the EZ forum there are guys that use the EZ system in place of a TS and believe that it should replace the TS. To each his own. Ignore the forums and posts that don't interest you.

Mike

Ted Miller
08-08-2007, 10:36 AM
Don, I feel the same way. My ignore list is getting longer every day and its like a bunch of children who all they want to do is argue. Its a shame the way this board is getting.

My favorite is the guys who hate a tool and don't even own it. I looked at EZ a while back and saw what goes on all the boards with the product and I gave up on that product. I am one of those guys who purchases tools after I have used them and actually need them for a job. Funny I look at Festool/EZ threads and 70% of the post are ignored.

I did contribute to this board once by buying a few shirts but never again. Until this board gets rid of the children its best to go to other boards where members actually ask questions and receive answers not bickering...

Randy Klein
08-08-2007, 11:43 AM
Until this board gets rid of the children its best to go to other boards where members actually ask questions and receive answers not bickering...

And what board is that? I doubt one exists. Bickering is helpful since it showcases different and multiple views.

Larry Heflin
08-08-2007, 10:10 PM
Goodby:rolleyes:

Jim Becker
08-09-2007, 7:26 AM
Until this board gets rid of the children its best to go to other boards where members actually ask questions and receive answers not bickering...

Any forum walks a fine line when it considers how to handle members/participants who get what I'll term "over enthusiastic". It doesn't matter what forum you go to...SMC or any other...the same situation exists. In fact, it also applies in each of our physical neighborhoods, towns and cities, too. Please understand that the administrators of this community do care and do take note of what goes on here. But turning any individual into a "guest" is a very subjective decision and they don't take that lightly. For every instance that they act in such a manner, there are those who cheer and those who cry (and think bad words even if they don't type them out). Relative to this particular issue, action is being taken behind the scenes, but at a rate that is commensurate with the sensitivity required.

If you have issues with a specific post or individual, report it by clicking on the "exclaimation point in the triangle" symbol at the top of any post (alerts moderators) or to Keith Outten and Aaron Koehl via PM for more serious concerns. This is the best way since 99% of the sharing that goes on here is useful, courtious and within the Terms of Service.

Jim
SMC Moderator

Al Willits
08-09-2007, 9:22 AM
fwiw
Might want to remember, imho this is a forum made up of many members and if a person posts something that does not violate the TOS, but is offensive to someone, it may just be the "someone" has to deal with it, and hit the ignore/delete button, and continue on.
This and any forum can not be all things to all people, and not liking a particular post may not automatically mean its wrong.

I'm not always the mods best friend, but I do realize I'm not gonna like everything that goes on here, so to be blunt, I either accept that or go somewhere else.
Personally I really like this place and have met some really nice people, and that by far over rides what ever very few things I dislike.

Rant off....:)

Al

Mark Rios
08-09-2007, 10:38 AM
fwiw
Might want to remember, imho this is a forum made up of many members and if a person posts something that does not violate the TOS, but is offensive to someone, it may just be the "someone" has to deal with it, and hit the ignore/delete button, and continue on.
This and any forum can not be all things to all people, and not liking a particular post may not automatically mean its wrong.

I'm not always the mods best friend, but I do realize I'm not gonna like everything that goes on here, so to be blunt, I either accept that or go somewhere else.
Personally I really like this place and have met some really nice people, and that by far over rides what ever very few things I dislike.

Rant off....:)

Al



Gosh dang Al!!! No need to be so harsh here. Settle down and stop all your bashing..........

:D :D :D

Just teasin' of course Al. I think that we Americans are getting more and more self centered all the time and we are SOOOO selfishly concerned with "OUR RIGHTS" that we make up rights that we think that we are entitled to. However, there is no right "not to be offended". Like you said above, read it or don't. Accept it or go somewhere else. This is ONLY a chatroom, for Pete's sake. :D

Matt Meiser
08-09-2007, 10:42 AM
However, there is no right "not to be offended".

I've heard they are talking about an amendment for that. :rolleyes: :D