FESTOOL circular saws

[Scott Felicetti]

How is this system? I watched the videos on the website for the TS75 and TS55 and was very impressed. The saws seem safe to me and very effective. However, I didn't see any simple mechanism for squaring up the rail to make sure you are cutting a straight line. The rail simply winds up on the cutting surface and the actor/woodworker cuts away.

The EZ smart system is also impressive and obviously does a whole lot more. The ez smart cuts look cleaner. However, the plunging circular saw and dust collection system looks very good.

Any first hand reports on this system? If all I'm going to do is make repeated cross cuts and rips and need accuracy and cleanliness (plus I'm up for a new circular saw) would this be a good choice? As always, thank you for your responses in advance. I'm always put on the right track here.
Scott

[Jim Becker]

Many 'Creekers, including myself, own and use the Festool saws. The guide goes "right on the line", so as long as you marked your workpiece "square", the cut will be the same. The dust collection is excellent as is the cut quality. Do keep in mind that the Festool saws are not "construction" type tools, so if you really need to do that with one tool in addition to cabinetry and furniture, than the EZ system with a regular circular saw may be a better choice. I have an old B&D circular saw I use for construction/home improvement, for example, and the Festool is reserved for shop and installation work.

[Loren Hedahl]

I originally bought the Festool TS55 plus all the other items to make it a system for it's dust control. A local independent wood supplier had taken on the Festool line and actually offered to let me take it home and use it for a day or two. I was sold, and am still very happy with the system.

I was aware of the EZ system, but had never seen it until the last woodworking show this spring in our area. Now having seen both, I'm not sure which way I would go if I could start over. It would depend on my intended use.

The EZ rails are definitely more robust. However they are thicker and you need a bigger saw to cut to the same depth.

I like the idea of generic saws and saw blades that are used on the EZ. However the Festool saws are more refined than any generic saw and I enjoy that refinement every time I use it.

Festool has superior dust control. However I think I would be satisfied with the EZ modification to generic saws in this area.

EZ has more attachments and gizmos for their guide rails. However I tend to lose or misplace those kind of things and don't have them when I need them.

I'm sure I could carry this on for pages -- but "you get the picture".

Loren

[Dixon Peer]

No question in my mind, the Festool 55 and 75 are great saws, and the guide rail is superb. We have two 55's and one 75. I go for the 55 first as it's a lot lighter, but when you have to cut the bottom of a 2 1/4" door, the 75 is the one.

As far a cut quality, there's none better, and with the newer saws there's a little plastic foot that attaches to the outside of the saw that prevents tear-out on the side of the work opposite the guide rail.

I don't know about the EZ system, except that I have read on one of the forums that it raises the bottom of the saw further off the work than the Festool rail does, so the effective depth of cut of your saw is less.

[Greg Funk]

I use the TS55 mainly to break down sheet goods and then do the final cutting on the tablesaw. This makes it easier to get consistent dimensions without having to measure and mark each piece. If you want to make square cuts with the saw and guide you would need to get one of the MFT tables as well.

Greg

[Burt Waddell]

I've had the pleasure of owning and using the EZ System for about 2 years now. EZ has a very good square that can help you with crosscuts and a repeater system that can be set for repeat rips of the same width. One of the repeaters and a square is called a cabinet maker and works great for repeat cuts. We use it for cutting cabinet parts - fast accurate and EZ.

As for the saws, I have a 55 series Festool saw but it has only been used about twice since I bought my First Hilti. I now have 3 of the Hilti 267e saws and many people say they are superior to the Festool. Hilti offers a "use when you need it" style plunge system vs the Festool system that requires you to always use. As for goodies on the two saws, Most key features are offered by both. To me the key difference of the Hilti 267e vs the Festool 55 is first, the Hilti has much better power, secondly it feels better in my hand, thirdly it is safer to use. On the flip side the Festool probably has the best saw dust collection because of the design of the saw.

From my experience the ultimate setup is the Hilti 267e and the EZ rails. If you really want the ultimate system, try the EZ power bench along with the Hilti.

[Don Eddard]

I have an old B&D circular saw I use for construction/home improvement, for example, and the Festool is reserved for shop and installation work.
Out of curiosity, why? Cutting 2x4s and such should not be any worse for the Festool than cutting hardwood lumber. It seems like owning a Yugo and a BMW, driving the Yugo only to the local 7-11, but driving the BMW everywhere else.

I have an old Skil saw and a decent Worx saw. I always grab the better saw when I need one. The Skil is only taking up space in the shop now.

[Michael Schwartz]

As far a cut quality, there's none better, and with the newer saws there's a little plastic foot that attaches to the outside of the saw that prevents tear-out on the side of the work opposite the guide rail.

I don't know about the EZ system, except that I have read on one of the forums that it raises the bottom of the saw further off the work than the Festool rail does, so the effective depth of cut of your saw is less.

A fine homebuilding review rated the EZ Smart system as having the best anti chip protection in a review that included the Fesstool System.

The Fesstool and EZ systems are the only systems that have anti chip protection on both sides of the blade with no offset.

As far as the Cut depth is concerned with the EZ system, it is less, but is enough to cut in up to 1-3/4" with a Hilti 267 and servile other 7-1/4" saws. The saw can be used off the rail for an even greater cut depth. I can cut doors and countertops on the guide-rail with my Hilti 267, and off the rail using it as a strait edge with my other saw.

The Fesstool is a fine system, and the MFT table is a great addition. I too looked very closely at it before I bought my EZ smart gear. I feel the EZ smart system is a more comprehensive solution.

[Dan Lautner]

Scott the Festool system has some very important advantages you should be aware of.

1. Bevel cuts can be made right on the rail edge.

2. The saw sits directly on the super thin rail which gives you
a much deeper depth of cut for a given size blade.

3. Dust collection is excellent

4. Blade changing is brilliant and lightning fast.

5. Depth setting and bevel settings are super precise and fast.

6. Hook the vac up to Festools full line of industrial sanders and you have a zero dust hepa sanding station.

7. The plunge feature not only allows for plunge cuts but makes it almost impossible to be cut by the blade.

I have the TS 55 and 75 and use them both daily

After you get the saw check out the Domino which also hooks up to the vac.
The Domino is truly a revolutionary tool for tenon joinery.

Dan

[Gary Keedwell]

After you get the saw check out the Domino which also hooks up to the vac.
The Domino is truly a revolutionary tool for tenon joinery.

Dan
What makes you think he got the saw or wants the domino?:confused:

Gary K

[Scott Felicetti]

The operation of the Festool saw is why I'm leaning to the Festool system. The operation of it makes sense. Safe. Plunging looks like the way to go. I don't see a proper fence option. I saw a nice post a week back where the EZ system was set up on a table with a Uni Fence. Real nice. I guess I could build something similar with the Festool gear.
Depth of cut is not an issue for me, I work with is 1 lumber or veneers.
I want ease of use. Repeatability. Accuracy. Safety and clean simple dust collection. Thanks for all the great input.
Scott

[Jim Becker]

Out of curiosity, why? Cutting 2x4s and such should not be any worse for the Festool than cutting hardwood lumber. It seems like owning a Yugo and a BMW, driving the Yugo only to the local 7-11, but driving the BMW everywhere else.

I have an old Skil saw and a decent Worx saw. I always grab the better saw when I need one. The Skil is only taking up space in the shop now.

The Festool saw is certainly capable of cutting 2x4 lumber, but it's not set up to do it comfortably, both due to the plunge format and the riving knife...it's designed to be used as a guided saw and excels at that task. You also don't have the same view of the blade as you do with a traditional circular saw...something I prefer when working "in the rough". When I cut construction lumber with my circular saw, it's either free-hand or with a speed square...or more likely, with my CMS instead. :D If I bought another circular saw for construction work, it'd be a worm-drive unit like the dudes are using to build our addition. ;)

But there certainly isn't any reason why one can't use the Festool saw for this purpose if you want to...

[Burt Waddell]

The operation of the Festool saw is why I'm leaning to the Festool system. The operation of it makes sense. Safe. Plunging looks like the way to go. I don't see a proper fence option. I saw a nice post a week back where the EZ system was set up on a table with a Uni Fence. Real nice. I guess I could build something similar with the Festool gear.
Depth of cut is not an issue for me, I work with is 1 lumber or veneers.
I want ease of use. Repeatability. Accuracy. Safety and clean simple dust collection. Thanks for all the great input.
Scott

Scott,

The plunge mechanism on the Festool Saw is a mixed bag.
- You always have to make the plunge motion for any cut.
- Extended cross cuts can be difficult - you have to hold the saw in the plunge position and push at the same time.

- Safety of the saw can be questioned. Dust can build up in the saw. When you pull the trigger to start the saw, the dust has caused the blade to be in contact with the wood. You pull the trigger, the saw jumps and you cut into your rail. A few months ago there was a thread here on sawmill creek where this was referred as "the rite of initation into the world of Festool".

Burt

[Burt Waddell]

The Festool saw is certainly capable of cutting 2x4 lumber, but it's not set up to do it comfortably, both due to the plunge format and the riving knife...it's designed to be used as a guided saw and excels at that task. You also don't have the same view of the blade as you do with a traditional circular saw...something I prefer when working "in the rough". When I cut construction lumber with my circular saw, it's either free-hand or with a speed square...or more likely, with my CMS instead. :D If I bought another circular saw for construction work, it'd be a worm-drive unit like the dudes are using to build our addition. ;)

But there certainly isn't any reason why one can't use the Festool saw for this purpose if you want to...

But look at the highlighted portions above for some considerations.

[Bob Michaels]

Burt Waddell, please excuse my bluntness, but why do you do a *Paid Political Announcement* every time something like this comes up. I'm sorry, but this is just really starting to feel old and, if anything, you're doing more harm to EZ than you guys may think. I for one really start to question why it's necessary to take shots at Festool every time you can. Is that the only way you can sell EZ. Your twisting of Jim Becker's post was way out out of bounds. Jim is a respected, knowledgable, impartial, and important contributor to this forum, but you managed to twist his helpful post. I'm sure others feel the same way. Please give it a rest. I'm not trying to start WW III, please don't respond.

[Jim Becker]

But look at the highlighted portions above for some considerations.

Personal Response:

That's out of the context I wrote it, Burt. I was talking about construction applications use vs the intended market for the Festool saw.
------

Moderator note:

All posters are reminded of our rules and Terms of Service. Be respectful. And that means everyone. Any deviation from that could result in edits, deleted posts or bouncing of an entire thread. We should all be above any behavior that would cause any one of those things to happen. Thank you in advance for your understanding and cooperation.

Jim
SMC Moderator

[Peter Pedisich]

Scott,

I have both systems.

I bought the Festool ATF55 first, and I use it with a CT22 vac and MFT1080. It cut my usage of the table saw by about 30% within a week of getting it. The dust collection is 90-95% when you are not trimming an edge. I always hook it up to the vac, as it is integral to the design, and have been very satisfied with my purchase.

But I was always curious about the EZ Smart products, in part due to the SRK for routing dados. I got the SRK first to work with my DeWalt router and was very satisfied. Now I own the SGS-64 and the Cabinetmaker.
I have not had a chance to use the Cabinetmaker yet, but have used the SGS-64 with a Bosch 1658 circular saw with a $15 Freud Diablo blade and made some dust collection mods to get about 70-80% of the dust. I recently picked up a PC324mag as people say the dust collection efficiency with a small mod is about as good as my ATF55.

The following are just my personal observations, from using both:

The cut quality is an absolute tie, no small accomplishment for an older Bosch that was $99 and with a $15 blade.

The Festool ATF55 has better dust collection, as compared to the Bosch, yet some other saws such as the Hilti 267 and PC325 may come close or equal to the Festool. But, also keep in mind the TS55 may have better dust collection than mine.

The Festool rails are flexible and will lay flat on a warped peice of ply, which has been very helpful twice so far. I did have a problem with a 'bump' when I joined 2 Festool rails, and Bob M gave me some tips and it has been perfect since.

The EZ rails are very substantial and strong, great value considering how the price of Aluminum has climbed over the last two years. I like the EZ smart clamps better than the Festool clamps.

Ask yourself the following questions:
How much can I / do I want to spend?
What saw do I like best?
EZ is made in USA, Festool in Germany (both first-rate build quality), does this matter to you?

Stay objective, keep an open mind, and you can't go wrong.

Bob M. has always, and promptly, and without a sales pitch, answered all of my Festool questions. He has also stepped in with other issues to be helpful.

Dino has been generous with both his time, experience, and products any time I needed. He has been very welcoming to me as a Festool user on the Eurekazone forum here at SMC. He is passionate about safety, and I absolutely respect him for that. His constant search for something better and safer, even if it means less profit for his company, puts Dino in very rare company in this world. And if I want to complain about the race to the bottom at the wheel of the greed machine in the tool industry (EZ and Festool excepted), then I feel I must point out and support those like Dino who take the high road.

My advice: Get both!:D :eek:

Pete

[Mark Carlson]

Scott,

I have the older Festool saw (ATF55). I bought it for the dust collection but now really like plunge action. I think its safer. While making a long cut its easy to stop cutting and repostion yourself and continue. The saw is also designed around dust collection and must be used with an attached vaccum. If you use the vac you wont have any problems with dust clogging. I dont agree with statements to the contrary. Good luck with whichever you pick.

~mark

[Rafael Carias]

But look at the highlighted portions above for some considerations.

I'm not sure what you are getting at Burt. For he life of me i don't see anybody doing free hand rough 2x4 cuts with the festool saw, if any thing i advice against doing such.

[Chris McDowell]

Scott I use my festool saw nearly every day. It is great at cutting up solid surface sheets, which is one of the reasons I got it. I also use it for the occasional cut that is easier to use the guide rail than the table saw on. I love the saw and the plunge action and the dust collection is great.
I would suggest getting your hands of whatever you are interested in buying before you lay down the bucks. Everyone has a different preference for how a tool feels in their hands. Best of luck whatever you decide.

Chris

[John Hain]

Burt Waddell, please excuse my bluntness, but why do you do a *Paid Political Announcement* every time something like this comes up. I'm sorry, but this is just really starting to feel old and, if anything, you're doing more harm to EZ than you guys may think. I for one really start to question why it's necessary to take shots at Festool every time you can. Is that the only way you can sell EZ. Your twisting of Jim Becker's post was way out out of bounds. Jim is a respected, knowledgable, impartial, and important contributor to this forum, but you managed to twist his helpful post. I'm sure others feel the same way. Please give it a rest. I'm not trying to start WW III, please don't respond.

You beat me to the punch. Although no one is impartial, Jim included.

Why tell us that the saw isn't as good when caked-on sawdust is affecting the blade? Wouldn't a 5th grader know to clean the saw?

I like the debate, but not if disclaimers about user incompetence forwards the discussion.

[Burt Waddell]

I'm not sure what you are getting at Burt. For he life of me i don't see anybody doing free hand rough 2x4 cuts with the festool saw, if any thing i advice against doing such.

Rafael,

I was just poking a little fun back at Jim. I thought that it was funny how he listed some very good reasons why not to use a festool saw for construction work and then said something to the effect that I see no reason why you can't use it for that.

Unfortunately, others didn't receive it as I meant it.

Burt

[frank shic]

is it possible to get completely CHIP-FREE cuts on BOTH SIDES of melamine using a PC mag saw and the eurekazone? i've been struggling with this problem for the last several months and i am on the verge of throwing in the towel and suquently ponying up for the festool saw since i noticed john lucas managed to achieve this goal with it. does anyone use the festool atf in conjunction with the eurekazone?

[Scott Felicetti]

Scott,

I have both systems.

I bought the Festool ATF55 first, and I use it with a CT22 vac and MFT1080. It cut my usage of the table saw by about 30% within a week of getting it. The dust collection is 90-95% when you are not trimming an edge. I always hook it up to the vac, as it is integral to the design, and have been very satisfied with my purchase.

But I was always curious about the EZ Smart products, in part due to the SRK for routing dados. I got the SRK first to work with my DeWalt router and was very satisfied. Now I own the SGS-64 and the Cabinetmaker.
I have not had a chance to use the Cabinetmaker yet, but have used the SGS-64 with a Bosch 1658 circular saw with a $15 Freud Diablo blade and made some dust collection mods to get about 70-80% of the dust. I recently picked up a PC324mag as people say the dust collection efficiency with a small mod is about as good as my ATF55.

The following are just my personal observations, from using both:

The cut quality is an absolute tie, no small accomplishment for an older Bosch that was $99 and with a $15 blade.

The Festool ATF55 has better dust collection, as compared to the Bosch, yet some other saws such as the Hilti 267 and PC325 may come close or equal to the Festool. But, also keep in mind the TS55 may have better dust collection than mine.

The Festool rails are flexible and will lay flat on a warped peice of ply, which has been very helpful twice so far. I did have a problem with a 'bump' when I joined 2 Festool rails, and Bob M gave me some tips and it has been perfect since.

The EZ rails are very substantial and strong, great value considering how the price of Aluminum has climbed over the last two years. I like the EZ smart clamps better than the Festool clamps.

Ask yourself the following questions:
How much can I / do I want to spend?
What saw do I like best?
EZ is made in USA, Festool in Germany (both first-rate build quality), does this matter to you?

Stay objective, keep an open mind, and you can't go wrong.

Bob M. has always, and promptly, and without a sales pitch, answered all of my Festool questions. He has also stepped in with other issues to be helpful.

Dino has been generous with both his time, experience, and products any time I needed. He has been very welcoming to me as a Festool user on the Eurekazone forum here at SMC. He is passionate about safety, and I absolutely respect him for that. His constant search for something better and safer, even if it means less profit for his company, puts Dino in very rare company in this world. And if I want to complain about the race to the bottom at the wheel of the greed machine in the tool industry (EZ and Festool excepted), then I feel I must point out and support those like Dino who take the high road.

My advice: Get both!:D :eek:

Pete

Pete,
Thank you for a thoughtful reply. I see my question raised some feathers. As a newbie, I guess I hit a trip wire. Let me just add this, it is great to see people enthusiastic about their brand. It is a credit to both EZ and Festool to see talented woodworkers get a little crazy over which is better.
Call me ethnocentric or a four letter word, but I always try to purchase products Made in America. Politics aside, I can no longer tell who I'm helping by buying an American made product. Lines are being blurred more and more each day in Corporate American, the "Global" economy and the New World Order. German made is okay with me. I avoid China made when possible.

I don't have the woodworking skills that most board members probably had by 18. From my point of view, the Festool saw appears more user friendly to a less experienced woodworker. You don't have any reaching for that rear blade guard lever thingy with the Festool plunger type saw. I'm sure I'd be happy with both systems, but the Festool saw just seems right for me. Perhaps Dino could design his own proprietary saw to be used with the EZ system. Perhaps a similar plunger type action, with built in by design dust collection. I don't know the sales level on EZ gear, but you would think a major manufacturer of saws would be willing to build one to spec to work specifically with the EZ system. Thanks again for the input.
Scott

[Pat Germain]

Festool saw must be good because Tom Silva uses one, right? ;)

I've looked at Festool saws at my local Woodcraft. They appear to be very well engineered. Since I've never actually used one, that's the extent of my opinion.

[John Russell]

I have never used the EZ system. I bought the Festool saw and rail system and then the vac. I use it primarily for cutting sheet goods, but I am now finding other uses for it.

The dust collection is a large asset to me.

I have never had any problems with the plunge mechanism and holding it for long cuts. Sometimes I have had to stop a cut on a long piece, but then it is easy to resume with no effects on the cut. My wife does the same thing. It is often easier for her to make part of a cut, then reposition and resume the cut. No problems.

The rail system cuts are comparable to what I get on the table saw and I now use it to cut sheet goods rather than the table saw.

I am new at this, but the Festool saw and rail system works for me.

[Michael Schwartz]

Burt Waddell, please excuse my bluntness, but why do you do a *Paid Political Announcement* every time something like this comes up. I'm sorry, but this is just really starting to feel old and, if anything, you're doing more harm to EZ than you guys may think. I for one really start to question why it's necessary to take shots at Festool every time you can. Is that the only way you can sell EZ. Your twisting of Jim Becker's post was way out out of bounds. Jim is a respected, knowledgable, impartial, and important contributor to this forum, but you managed to twist his helpful post. I'm sure others feel the same way. Please give it a rest. I'm not trying to start WW III, please don't respond.

Where is your proof Burt is paid, or is this just an assumption. Prove that there aren't professional posters working for Fesstool before you go ripping on Burt.

There is nothing wrong with pointing out flaws to the Fesstool System, as this is a discussion on the Fesstool Saw. At least burt posted within the context of the discussion rather than just another post accusing anybody who posts anything favorable about the a product they don't like of getting paid.

I feel the discussion on a Fesstool saw includes the Pros, and Cons of the system as well as the alternatives.

Its sad that everytime somebody posts anything negitive about fesstool that the threads have to go to this.

Why is it ok in a thread about Delta Tablesaws to post all you want about how Delta saws stink, and why Steel City is better?

It is discussion.

Period.

If you are disgruntled about a thread in another forum keep it there.

[Tom Cowie]

Proud owner of the TS75 and rails and a few other Festool products.

For what I need them to do they excell in every way. For those who don't like it or don't agree stay out of my shop and I'll stay out of yours'.

If you like your Ez so much then you souldn't need to bash others . Even in Fun:(

Tom

[Michael Schwartz]

Proud owner of the TS75 and rails and a few other Festool products.

For what I need them to do they excell in every way. For those who don't like it or don't agree stay out of my shop and I'll stay out of yours'.

If you like your Ez so much then you souldn't need to bash others . Even in Fun:(

Tom

Nobody was fesstool bashing, I don't get why anything negative said about fesstool instantly gets labeled fesstool bashing.

The thing I see every day is Fesstool guys bashing every thing else.

There is a fesstool owners group for people who only want to discuss fesstool

This is an example of fesstool bashing


O, You don't want fesstool, Fesstool is German for Money Extraction System

I havent even seen one reference to Fesstool as Fe$$tool yet either.

[Dan Lautner]

I have a question for EZ users. How do you make precision beveled cuts. From what I understand the EZ anti chip edge can not be used for alignment with the blade set to a beveled angle. Is this true?

Dan

[Gary Keedwell]

Scott the Festool system has some very important advantages you should be aware of.

1. Bevel cuts can be made right on the rail edge.

2. The saw sits directly on the super thin rail which gives you
a much deeper depth of cut for a given size blade.

3. Dust collection is excellent

4. Blade changing is brilliant and lightning fast.

5. Depth setting and bevel settings are super precise and fast.

6. Hook the vac up to Festools full line of industrial sanders and you have a zero dust hepa sanding station.

7. The plunge feature not only allows for plunge cuts but makes it almost impossible to be cut by the blade.

I have the TS 55 and 75 and use them both daily

After you get the saw check out the Domino which also hooks up to the vac.
The Domino is truly a revolutionary tool for tenon joinery.

Dan
I don't own either one but I know there is a partial climate here. That "Paid Political Announcement" comment is a gas.:rolleyes: ( see above)

Example: How does the biscut joiner, domino , fit into this thread?
Gary K. PS. Where's Mr. Fogarrty?

[Rafael Carias]

Rafael,

I was just poking a little fun back at Jim. I thought that it was funny how he listed some very good reasons why not to use a festool saw for construction work and then said something to the effect that I see no reason why you can't use it for that.

Unfortunately, others didn't receive it as I meant it.

Burt

In all fairness the festool plunge saw was not designed for rough construction cuts with out the guide rail and to do so will be in all likeness dangerous. with the last out fit i worked with we had to fabricate wall paneling from pre-finished fin ply on site. the tool of choice was the festool plunge saw. the crew and i got the hang of the saw pretty quickly and fabricated the wall paneling fairly quickly. the second day after the festool arrived one of the frame carpenters grabed the fesstool to cut some cdx rough ply with out the guide, big mistake. , he got some really bad kick back and if it wasn't for the built in riving knife he would have cut into his leg's flesh.

[Michael Schwartz]

I have a question for EZ users. How do you make precision beveled cuts. From what I understand the EZ anti chip edge can not be used for alignment with the blade set to a beveled angle. Is this true?

Dan

There are two ways to do it, with the bridge and without the bridge.

The guide rail itself has two tracks, one for bevels, this aligns the blade as such with the anti chip edge so you can trim it for a bevel.

The other way involves setting the bridge at bevel to the work peice.

http://eurekazone.com/gallery/Making-moldings-the-ez-way

Compound Cuts

http://eurekazone.com/gallery/safe-and-fun

On the bridge

http://eurekazone.com/gallery/Bridge-200-setup-instructions/b200_instructions_4

[Rafael Carias]

I have a question for EZ users. How do you make precision beveled cuts. From what I understand the EZ anti chip edge can not be used for alignment with the blade set to a beveled angle. Is this true?

Dan

I have both and for this operation i recommend the festool over the EZ.

[Don Taylor]

Anyone who wants to buy the EZ system, buy it? Doesn't bother me in the least. :confused: :confused: :confused:

DT

[Dino Makropoulos]

is it possible to get completely CHIP-FREE cuts on BOTH SIDES of melamine using a PC mag saw and the eurekazone? i've been struggling with this problem for the last several months and i am on the verge of throwing in the towel and suquently ponying up for the festool saw since i noticed john lucas managed to achieve this goal with it. does anyone use the festool atf in conjunction with the eurekazone?

Frank,
With a new blade and the smart base installed right, you should have no problems with melamine.
You can build-up the pressure on the antichip edges and inserts with painters tape. More pressure to the melamine, less chip out. ( tape on the edges and inserts)
Another way is to set your saw 1/32" deep and make your first cut backwards, second cut at full depth.
Best blade for melamine is the Freud Diablo $15.00 (40 teeth)
Just make sure that you lock the depth lever before you make a backward shallow cut.
If I was cutting multiple pieces, I clean the blade every 20 cuts and make a depth stop for the saw.
You can do that with a spacer on the depth lever.
Good luck and report back....with pictures.

[Keith Outten]

The idea of comparing tools with the expectation of finding a winner is a goal that can never be accomplished.

People select the tools they purchase based mostly on their personal situation. An individuals budget, style of woodworking and variety of projects will determine, for the most part, which tool they purchase. Opinions from other respected woodworkers will normally expand ones search efforts but it will rarely effect the outcome of an individuals purchasing habits.

The question "Which one is best" can only be answered by the person asking the question. People certainly have their favorites and some will swear that their brand is clearly the best but it isn't true and it has never been a true statement. Anyone who professes that their personal selection is the best is probably an individual best shunned because they rarely are open to new ideas or are capable of considering all the facts.

An opinion that doesn't consider an individuals needs and personal preferences is worth just two cents. For the life of me I cannot understand how any woodworker could know what tool is the best for any other woodworker. I have known for decades that the best tool for me has to be my choice based on my personal situation. I make my choices based on information that I accumulate through various sources then factor in my needs, personal preference, work habits and my budget.

I normally enjoy reading the opinions of other woodworkers, especially those whose position differs from my own. The reason is that I may find, through another persons experience, that they have found a better way to accomplish a given task and I may learn from their experience. This same reasoning applies to the selection of tools and equipment because I certainly am unable to test every tool personally. I am also unable to use the tools I already own in every situation or combination of projects.

Being labeled a "Tool Snob" by your peers is probably the worst that can happen to anyone who frequents a woodworking forum.

Live and let live folks.........I have no intention of removing this thread because it contains a lot of valuable information. I will, if necessary, adjust access privileges from Member to Guest. I also intend to remove every one of you who has a personal vendetta or business agenda that you attempt to push on this Community.

My apologies to our loyal and friendly Members for the dust lately, we are attempting to clean up a bit.

.

[frank shic]

thanks for the response, Dino! you've just saved me $400. the only question now is... what to buy next?!? ;)

[Gary Keedwell]

The idea of comparing tools with the expectation of finding a winner is a goal that can never be accomplished.

People select the tools they purchase based mostly on their personal situation. An individuals budget, style of woodworking and variety of projects will determine, for the most part, which tool they purchase. Opinions from other respected woodworkers will normally expand ones search efforts but it will rarely effect the outcome of an individuals purchasing habits.

The question "Which one is best" can only be answered by the person asking the question. People certainly have their favorites and some will swear that their brand is clearly the best but it isn't true and it has never been a true statement. Anyone who professes that their personal selection is the best is probably an individual best shunned because they rarely are open to new ideas or are capable of considering all the facts.

An opinion that doesn't consider an individuals needs and personal preferences is worth just two cents. For the life of me I cannot understand how any woodworker could know what tool is the best for any other woodworker. I have known for decades that the best tool for me has to be my choice based on my personal situation. I make my choices based on information that I accumulate through various sources then factor in my needs, personal preference, work habits and my budget.

I normally enjoy reading the opinions of other woodworkers, especially those whose position differs from my own. The reason is that I may find, through another persons experience, that they have found a better way to accomplish a given task and I may learn from their experience. This same reasoning applies to the selection of tools and equipment because I certainly am unable to test every tool personally. I am also unable to use the tools I already own in every situation or combination of projects.

Being labeled a "Tool Snob" by your peers is probably the worst that can happen to anyone who frequents a woodworking forum.

Live and let live folks.........I have no intention of removing this thread because it contains a lot of valuable information. I will, if necessary, adjust access privileges from Member to Guest. I also intend to remove every one of you who has a personal vendetta or business agenda that you attempt to push on this Community.

My apologies to our loyal and friendly Members for the dust lately, we are attempting to clean up a bit.

.
Keith..... Thank-you...Thank-you...Thank-you ,

That , my friend, was a very truthful post. It should be mandatory for any individual to read that post before they put their fingers to the keyboard.
I have to compare a certain kind of individual who discovers a new religion and feels the need to spend every spare minute trying to convert everybody they come in contact with. Most people are polite about it , but deep down inside they are just rolling their eyes and just plain ignoring them.
I have found that woodworking is a down to earth , common sense-driven hobby. That being said, please think twice before you insult people's intellect. Everybody's needs are different. AS to you converters: I suggest you do more posting to those Forums where everybody thinks alike.;)
Gary K.

[Dixon Peer]

I use the TS55 mainly to break down sheet goods and then do the final cutting on the tablesaw. This makes it easier to get consistent dimensions without having to measure and mark each piece. If you want to make square cuts with the saw and guide you would need to get one of the MFT tables as well.

Greg

You don't need to get the MFT to make square cuts. It's helpful, but for example, how does one make square cuts in a piece of plywood sheathing for a house? You use a square! Draw a line with the square on the plywood and cut to it! Well, you do the same thing with a Festool guide rail; measure in the same distance from one factory cut end, make marks, put the rail on the marks and make your cut.

[Dixon Peer]

In all fairness the festool plunge saw was not designed for rough construction cuts with out the guide rail and to do so will be in all likeness dangerous. with the last out fit i worked with we had to fabricate wall paneling from pre-finished fin ply on site. the tool of choice was the festool plunge saw. the crew and i got the hang of the saw pretty quickly and fabricated the wall paneling fairly quickly. the second day after the festool arrived one of the frame carpenters grabed the fesstool to cut some cdx rough ply with out the guide, big mistake. , he got some really bad kick back and if it wasn't for the built in riving knife he would have cut into his leg's flesh.

Yup, the saw might be dangerous for rough work precisely because of the plunge mechanism. I have had minor kickbacks from carelessly plunging the saw into material too quickly and before the saw was up to speed.

[Keith Outten]

I think there has been some very good input in this thread from people who have personal experience with both systems. There are differences and they need to be taken into account before an educated purchase can be made.

I like the EZ System but it may not be the best tool for others. My needs are simple where the guide systems are concerned I guess and I have found the EZ Guide to work well at a very affordable price.

I have visited the Festool display at WoodCraft many times checking out their line of tools and I have to say they really have a first class offering in many areas. Every time I hear a glowing review about one of their tools I have to take another look and every time I look I really like what I see. Maybe there is a Festool in my future, you never know :)

I found myself at Sears a couple weeks ago and couldn't pass up a deal on a small battery drill driver that was 20 bucks. It works great for installing door signs. I installed all the signs in a new building with that little driver on a single charge and it weighs a fraction of my Dewalt battery drills. It doesn't have the same power as the Dewalt but the job at hand didn't require a powerfull drill driver. I expect that the next time I'm on a ladder or scaffold doing a light duty job I will definately reach for the little Craftsman drill :)

The best tool for the job at hand is often the least expensive tool on the bench :)

.

[Rafael Carias]

Yup, the saw might be dangerous for rough work precisely because of the plunge mechanism. I have had minor kickbacks from carelessly plunging the saw into material too quickly and before the saw was up to speed.


I've had the same thing happen to me but if you follow proper procedure you should be relatively safe.

[Greg Funk]

You don't need to get the MFT to make square cuts. It's helpful, but for example, how does one make square cuts in a piece of plywood sheathing for a house? You use a square! Draw a line with the square on the plywood and cut to it! Well, you do the same thing with a Festool guide rail; measure in the same distance from one factory cut end, make marks, put the rail on the marks and make your cut.
That will get you close if the factory edge is square. But measuring and marking with a pencil and then setting the guide on the marks opens up too many opportunities for errors. I prefer to get it close and then use a crosscut sled.

Greg

[Burt Waddell]

That will get you close if the factory edge is square. But measuring and marking with a pencil and then setting the guide on the marks opens up too many opportunities for errors. I prefer to get it close and then use a crosscut sled.

Greg

Greg and Dixon,

This is where the EZ Smart really excels. The repeaters make it possible to make very accurate cuts of the same width. You just set the repeaters and cut. For shorter cuts, use the cabinet maker. That is a combination of the square and one repeater. We use it for our cross cutting when making cabinets. Right now, we use the large bridge to rip and then use the repeater to cross cut. Using this system, we have reduced cut out time for a kitchen about 30% when compared to using two unisaws - one with an excaliber sliding table.

Also this gets us back to basics in one area - the Festool guide system was designed to use to supplement a table saw. The EZ System was designed to replace a table saw.


Burt

[Scott Felicetti]

That will get you close if the factory edge is square. But measuring and marking with a pencil and then setting the guide on the marks opens up too many opportunities for errors. I prefer to get it close and then use a crosscut sled.

Greg

This is one of my concerns with the Festool rail system. I need to easily square up, cross cut and rip veneers that are without a factory edge. Repeating exact cuts is a necessity. Using Festool what would be the short cut (if any) to meassuring out accurate length time after time for cross cuts?
Scott

[John Lucas]

Greg and Dixon,

This is where the EZ Smart really excels. The repeaters make it possible to make very accurate cuts of the same width. You just set the repeaters and cut. For shorter cuts, use the cabinet maker. That is a combination of the square and one repeater. We use it for our cross cutting when making cabinets. Right now, we use the large bridge to rip and then use the repeater to cross cut. Using this system, we have reduced cut out time for a kitchen about 30% when compared to using two unisaws - one with an excaliber sliding table.

Also this gets us back to basics in one area - the Festool guide system was designed to use to supplement a table saw. The EZ System was designed to replace a table saw.


Burt

Burt, oh Burt, where did you get that bit of fancy "The Festool guide system was designed to use to supplement a table saw." In my opinion, you couldnt be further from the truth. I can't speak to the EZ System but I will tell you that I have a Unisaw with sliding table and I do not use it any more for panel work. The Festool guide rail system gives me accurate and clean cuts...as good or better than the table saw. I do not use a pencil to mark where I want the cut. I use a razor blade and bring the guide rail to the blade. When the Festool system uses the guide rail so accurately, my cuts are within the thickness of the razor blade.
Burt, do you make up your "facts" as you go?

[Rick Christopherson]

Another way is to set your saw 1/32" deep and make your first cut backwards, second cut at full depth.Dino, I don't think it would be a good idea to make a climb-cut with a circular saw, as this can lead to a kickback. Granted, at this shallow of a depth the chances are pretty low, but nevertheless, it could happen.

When making a scoring cut such as this, I believe you will still get adequate results in the forward direction because the blade teeth are traveling nearly perpendicular with the melamine surface.

The downside to a scoring cut is that when making the final cut, if the blade deflects (and it undoubtedly will, depending on tooth geometry) you can actually get larger tearout than a non-scored cut. This is because the score is the same width as the blade teeth, and it is easier to lift an edge (at the score) than it is to lift material that hasn't been previously cut.

[Rafael Carias]

... The EZ System was designed to replace a table saw.


Burt

Burt, can you be more specific? phase out the table, how so? you mean for sheet goods dimensioning? if you mean for sheet goods i'd sat definitely in combination with an appropriately engineered circular saw. (maybe not for tradesman who proces hard sheets like plyboo or higher quality euro ply).

Even if the EZ may have been designed to replace the table saw it never will. In my personal experience of 10 year working with cabinet saws and even after experiencing the use of a true format slider i would never get rid of the cabinet saw.

[Burt Waddell]

Burt, oh Burt, where did you get that bit of fancy "The Festool guide system was designed to use to supplement a table saw." In my opinion, you couldnt be further from the truth. I can't speak to the EZ System but I will tell you that I have a Unisaw with sliding table and I do not use it any more for panel work. The Festool guide rail system gives me accurate and clean cuts...as good or better than the table saw. I do not use a pencil to mark where I want the cut. I use a razor blade and bring the guide rail to the blade. When the Festool system uses the guide rail so accurately, my cuts are within the thickness of the razor blade.
Burt, do you make up your "facts" as you go?

John,

A couple of basic facts:

EZ Smart makes repeaters.

Festool does not make a device such as the repeater for repeat cuts.

Festool has recently started making table saws.

Burt

[Rafael Carias]

John,

A couple of basic facts:

EZ Smart makes repeaters.

Festool does not make a device such as the repeater for repeat cuts.

Festool has recently started making table saws.

Burt

Burt, I have the repeaters, cabinetmaker and so forth. i'll give you points in my opinion that for fast rips on soft core ply the EZ beats the cabinet saw hands down but not every body runs or want to run a production cabinet shop and not every body is cutting soft core material at maximum 6/4 thickness. the EZ just isn't the best solution in every scenario and the current reality is that for the most part, Guided saw system like the EZ, festool and mafell are still table saw complimentary aids to those who have other uses for their cabinet saws.

[Burt Waddell]

Burt, can you be more specific? phase out the table, how so? you mean for sheet goods dimensioning? if you mean for sheet goods i'd sat definitely in combination with an appropriately engineered circular saw. (maybe not for tradesman who proces hard sheets like plyboo or higher quality euro ply).

Even if the EZ may have been designed to replace the table saw it never will. In my personal experience of 10 year working with cabinet saws and even after experiencing the use of a true format slider i would never get rid of the cabinet saw.

Rafel,

As I stated, the EZ Smart system is designed to replace the table saw - By this I mean to eliminate the table saw from the hobby shops and in many but not all situations eliminate them from industrial situations. As I implement the EZ Smart more and more in my shop, I find that accuracy is better, speed is equal to or better, and at the end of the day, I feel much better because I have done less handling of heavy materials.

One function that the table saw does in my shop is the basic ripping of hard woods - I use a unisaw with a stock feeder. At this time, there is nothing in the EZ System that Is as efficient as a stock feeder and cabinet saw combo. Who knows about tomorrow.

I also find the bridge system to be a gaint step. It makes cutting easier, faster, and at the same time increases safety.

Much to my surprise, I have found that the EZ is also great with the little stuff. I often rip a 5/16" wide board into two pieces and my fingers get no where near the saw blade.

In my shop, the table saw is being used less and less. The portable table saw is no longer taken to the job site. The EZ tools have assumed all of the duties of the miter saw except installing crown molding.

The guided saw system , in my opinion, is the tool of the future. It is geathering more acceptance as people come to understand it really is a easier, safer way to do woodworking.


Burt

[Randal Stevenson]

This THREAD is getting dangerously close to another F verses E war, we really DON'T need that PLEASE!

To the ORIGINAL poster, Scott, where are you located?
All tools serve a function, to get whatever job done. I posted about a 96 year old (friends grandfather), who is STILL woodworking. He has had a couple of accidents, INCLUDING amputating two fingers last year on the tablesaw (don't move as fast as someone younger). I provided his grandson (the one I was in the discussion with) with info on the Eurekazone, AND the Sawstop. I left out the Festool because I HAVE the EZ and would be more then willing to let him use it, if he would. My understanding, is they are currently leaning toward the Sawstop, because at 96, he is used to the tablesaw. (he doesn't like change) More then fine, it would hamper anymore serious amputations, but not prevent kickback (don't know all of his accidents, haven't got to talk to him yet).
That being said, I am sure there are other members with EITHER/BOTH systems, that would be happy to show them to you and let you try them. Dino has offered a try before you buy before, and would probably do so again. I believe Bob keeps a demo setup if you are close to him.
Please consider posting where you are at, before this thread either gets locked or eliminated, as we can and do try to help, this is one subject that gets TOO many people riled (spelling) up.

Thanks and my apollogies for this whole mess.

[Scott Felicetti]

This THREAD is getting dangerously close to another F verses E war, we really DON'T need that PLEASE!

To the ORIGINAL poster, Scott, where are you located?
All tools serve a function, to get whatever job done. I posted about a 96 year old (friends grandfather), who is STILL woodworking. He has had a couple of accidents, INCLUDING amputating two fingers last year on the tablesaw (don't move as fast as someone younger). I provided his grandson (the one I was in the discussion with) with info on the Eurekazone, AND the Sawstop. I left out the Festool because I HAVE the EZ and would be more then willing to let him use it, if he would. My understanding, is they are currently leaning toward the Sawstop, because at 96, he is used to the tablesaw. (he doesn't like change) More then fine, it would hamper anymore serious amputations, but not prevent kickback (don't know all of his accidents, haven't got to talk to him yet).
That being said, I am sure there are other members with EITHER/BOTH systems, that would be happy to show them to you and let you try them. Dino has offered a try before you buy before, and would probably do so again. I believe Bob keeps a demo setup if you are close to him.
Please consider posting where you are at, before this thread either gets locked or eliminated, as we can and do try to help, this is one subject that gets TOO many people riled (spelling) up.

Thanks and my apollogies for this whole mess.

Wow, Thanks Randall. I'm located in Long Island, New York. Although I'm new to this forum and woodworking in general, I find this forum very calm for the most part. A bunch of good, knowledgeable folks. From a newbie point of view both systems appear great. If one was clearly superior this thread wouldn't even be taking place. Let's just say in a prior life my profession was dealing with injured people. Loss of life and limb. I've worked with numerous experts in many fields including accident reconstruction and defective products. I hate to hear about anyone, 96 or otherwise, losing 2 fingers. At least it was at a productive endeavor as opposed to the insanity of a drunk driver. My needs are simple. Rip, and cross cut as accurately, easily and safely as possible. I am not a general woodworker. I'm a musical instrument manufacturer trying to take on a new aspect of instrument building. To do this I have to acquire some new woodworking skills and tools. I always get great advice here. thanks to all.
Scott

[Jim Becker]

Scott, both SMCers Bob Marino (Festool) and Dino (EZ) are within driving distance of you (NJ) if you want to test drive either or both systems with the experts in their use.

[Ed Falis]

Scott, both SMCers Bob Marino (Festool) and Dino (EZ) are within driving distance of you (NJ) if you want to test drive either or both systems with the experts in their use.

Scott, you have no excuse now. Should make for a couple of great outings (I use parts of both systems).

- Ed

[Dan Lautner]

"This is one of my concerns with the Festool rail system. I need to easily square up, cross cut and rip veneers that are without a factory edge. Repeating exact cuts is a necessity. Using Festool what would be the short cut (if any) to measuring out accurate length time after time for cross cuts?"

Scott, go here http://www.festoolusa.com/woodworking.aspx

Download "Advanced cutting and routing techniques using the MFS multi routing template by Jerry Work"

This will show you how to square stock and get dead on repeats using the Festools system. I have been using this method for a year and it is absolute nuts on every time with perfect quality cuts.

Dan

[Greg Funk]

Also this gets us back to basics in one area - the Festool guide system was designed to use to supplement a table saw. The EZ System was designed to replace a table saw.
Burt
Burt,

That's not a problem for me as I already have a tablesaw and can't really see getting rid of it. I like the advantages a 3 HP motor provides and there are still many functions that can't be accomplished with a circular saw no matter how good the guiding system is.

Greg

[Burt Waddell]

Some people seem to question why we want to replace table saws with safer systems. This video is rather graphic - The title - Aftermath of a Tablesaw Kickback. Michael Schwartz found the video and posted it on the EZ Forum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEU2qQuhjJg



Burt

[Gary Keedwell]

Some people seem to question why we want to replace table saws with safer systems. This video is rather graphic - The title - Aftermath of a Tablesaw Kickback. Michael Swartz found the video and posted it on the EZ Forum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEU2qQuhjJg



Burt
That was an ugly accident, but he did say that he worked at a mill and that it was "fresh oak". Not to trivialize the video, but there is a world of difference between a mill environment and my basement shop.:o
In a mill atmosphere, production is the norm. No time to contemplate safety. When I set-up to do an operation on my table saw, I have the luxury of thinking about what I'm about to do and set it up accordingly. No boss looking over my shoulder telling me that I'm behind on my production.:rolleyes:
Gary K.

[Burt Waddell]

Gary,

I understand what you are saying and agree 100%.

I try to be safe but a couple of years ago, I lost control of a roughly 1 x 1 X about 5' while trying to make it into corner cap on a 5 horse unisaw. Fortunately, I make it a practice to stand to the side of the saw when doing such cuts. The saw threw the piece about 10 feet thru the air before it hit anything. Then it went thru a piece of 1/4" tile board, 2 pieces of 1/4" plywood and banged up the side of a 1/2" piece of plywood. I've often thought about what could have happened if I had been standing behind that saw.

Burt

[Michael Schwartz]

The answer to the great F vs E debate is simple, Both systems have their merits and can live side by side. There are pros and cons of the Fesstool saws, and there pros and cons of saws like the Hilti 267 as well. There is no perfect tool and to call a tool perfect would end all inovation and we would be stuck with what we have forever.

Fesstool makes a darn fine product, and all of their tools are of the highest quality, but there are other manufacturers of fine tools out there as well.

Eureka-zone also produces a fine product of high quality that is extremely inovative and functional.

Both systems provide a better safer way to make many cuts and yes provide and alternative to the table-saw for those limited by space and budget.

I wish that discussions that involve the EZ Smart and Fesstool would revolve arround discussing the pros and cons of each system. Instead they always seem to shift to personal attacks from both sides. This has been rather tame here compared to other forums, but there is no need to go there.

[robert micley]

i have most of the festool products.they are good-but not great. i got the domino-it was out of alignment.festool jigsaw is a pain to adjust bevel and has no blower to clear the dust.the circular saw does not have the power of other circular saws on market.i bought an eight foot guide rail because combining two guide rails did not give me a perfect straight edge.the routers do not come with base plate accepting usual bushings. routers do not have multi base kits- i like a regular two knob handles for dovetailing on jigs. mft table bridge goes out of square not infrequently and is not big enough to cut more than 24 inches.it would be handy to have repeaters and the accessories that ez smart has for the festool guide rail syatem.

[Jason White]

I have one (the TS55). Worth every penny!

I hardly use the table saw anymore except when I need to do a lot of repeat cutting. The best thing about it is that it's not necessary to cut to "rough size" with a circular saw before cutting to "finished size" on the table saw. You can do most or all of your finish cuts with the TS55 or TS75.

JW


How is this system? I watched the videos on the website for the TS75 and TS55 and was very impressed. The saws seem safe to me and very effective. However, I didn't see any simple mechanism for squaring up the rail to make sure you are cutting a straight line. The rail simply winds up on the cutting surface and the actor/woodworker cuts away.

The EZ smart system is also impressive and obviously does a whole lot more. The ez smart cuts look cleaner. However, the plunging circular saw and dust collection system looks very good.

Any first hand reports on this system? If all I'm going to do is make repeated cross cuts and rips and need accuracy and cleanliness (plus I'm up for a new circular saw) would this be a good choice? As always, thank you for your responses in advance. I'm always put on the right track here.
Scott

[Dan Lautner]

"i have most of the festool products.they are good-but not great. i got the domino-it was out of alignment"

Robert, how do you like the Domino after you got it aligned?

Dan

[Bob Childress]

i have most of the festool products.they are good-but not great.

And yet, apparently, you keep buyin' 'em. :confused: :D :D Reminds me of the joke about the guy who kept hitting his head against the wall. When asked Why? he replied "because it feels so good when I stop." ;)

[Gary Keedwell]

And yet, apparently, you keep buyin' 'em. :confused: :D :D Reminds me of the joke about the guy who kept hitting his head against the wall. When asked Why? he replied "because it feels so good when I stop." ;)
I was wondering how long it would take the Festool Police to arrive at the scene:eek: :D :D :>)

Gary K.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/evsac/Video/Bounce.gif Only kidding....

[Bob Childress]

I was wondering how long it would take the Festool Police to arrive at the scene:eek: :D :D :>)

Gary K.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/evsac/Video/Bounce.gif Only kidding....

Oh Gary, you know I love you! :rolleyes: :D :D

[Burt Waddell]

i have most of the festool products.they are good-but not great. i got the domino-it was out of alignment.festool jigsaw is a pain to adjust bevel and has no blower to clear the dust.the circular saw does not have the power of other circular saws on market.i bought an eight foot guide rail because combining two guide rails did not give me a perfect straight edge.the routers do not come with base plate accepting usual bushings. routers do not have multi base kits- i like a regular two knob handles for dovetailing on jigs. mft table bridge goes out of square not infrequently and is not big enough to cut more than 24 inches.it would be handy to have repeaters and the accessories that ez smart has for the festool guide rail syatem.

Robert,

Why not give Dino a call and see if there is a way to add some EZ Stuff to what you have? Maybe a hybrid system would be good for you.

Burt

[robert micley]

i like their tools very much. i am just mentioning that their are ways to improve on them. the domino is fine now that the board member months ago showed me the page on aligning the pins.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I hear they are very nice.

I wouldn't get a Festool hand held circular saw for the simple reason that you are paying Porsche prices for a high performance race car of a saw and I don't see a hand held circular saw as a Porsche class tool.

I use mine to cut construction lumber, and I used to use it to break sheet goods down cause I couldn't always manage big heavy sheets on my TS. I'd just clamp a shop made straight edge to the sheet stock and wail away. So the heavy Skill Worm drive is the saw of choice for this puppy.

I might consider Festool's router - maybe just maybe. However there is really nothing they sell that holds a lot of appeal for me. I think the reason is dust collection. for every cool tool that Festool makes there is a cheaper unit elsewhere that is every bit as good but doesn't have DC and I just don't care about DC so I'd be a fool to pay for it.

[Paul Dwight]

I have used both systems, but man, I hesitate to enter into one of these F vs. E discussions. Passions run high. But here goes:

A good friend has the Eurekazone guide system that he uses with a PC Mag saw and a Freud blade. I used his equipment several times before I bought my Festool stuff. I thought the E system was easy to use and I was perfectly happy with the results.

Afterwards, my friend asked me to check a cut edge carefully to see if it was exactly square to the surface. I pulled out a machinists square and saw that the cut edge was just slightly off of square -- probably less than 1/64" off over the 3/4" depth of the melamine, not enough to cause any problems for dado/rabbet case construction, but maybe enough that a case assembled with pocket screws would go together a little out of square. Which was puzzling because I had adjusted the saw before I started and verified the blade was square to the Eureka base. My friend had experienced this several times and found that to get an edge that's dead-on square, he has to adjust the saw to square with the saw sitting on the guide rail and the guide rail sitting on a solid surface. Which can be done, but is not easy or convenient. Fortunately, it only has to be done occasionally (assuming someone like me doesn't come along and mess up his adjustment).

I'm not saying this is a problem with every Eureka system. Maybe there's something a little different about the particular pieces my friend owns.

And I'm not saying it's a huge problem. I had no trouble getting my dadoed-and-rabbeted carcasses to go together square.

I decided to go with the Festool system, myself, mostly because I found a decent deal on a used ATF55 and guide rail. (Still more expensive than comparable Eureka guides and a PC Mag saw, though.) I have found the Festool system to be very easy to use and extremely accurate. The factor that limits accuracy of the F system is how well I do the setup.

As someone who looks at the Eurekazone products from the outside, it appears to me that Dino's biggest advantage is that he understands his customers so well and is so quick to market with innovations that makes his customers' lives easier. Dino continually innovates. In contrast, the Festool saw system has been fairly static for years. I wish to heck that Festool offered an accessory like Dino's Repeaters. But they don't. If that level of speed and convenience is important to you, then you should probably choose Eureka.

[John Stevens]

I wouldn't get a Festool hand held circular saw for the simple reason that you are paying Porsche prices for a high performance race car of a saw and I don't see a hand held circular saw as a Porsche class tool.

I use mine to cut construction lumber, and I used to use it to break sheet goods down cause I couldn't always manage big heavy sheets on my TS.

Sure, if that's all you use a circular saw for, then it probably wouldn't pay to buy Festool. However, I own the Festool saw and MFT and use it to make furniture as well as cut sheets down to size. Because the Festool system produces clean, accurate cuts, and is so much better at dust control and safety, I don't use my table saw for anything but ripping lumber. I have no regrets about spending the money on the smaller Festool saw, and will probably buy the larger one (TS-75) at some point.

Regards,

John

[Gary Keedwell]

I hear they are very nice.

I wouldn't get a Festool hand held circular saw for the simple reason that you are paying Porsche prices for a high performance race car of a saw and I don't see a hand held circular saw as a Porsche class tool.

I use mine to cut construction lumber, and I used to use it to break sheet goods down cause I couldn't always manage big heavy sheets on my TS. I'd just clamp a shop made straight edge to the sheet stock and wail away. So the heavy Skill Worm drive is the saw of choice for this puppy.

I might consider Festool's router - maybe just maybe. However there is really nothing they sell that holds a lot of appeal for me. I think the reason is dust collection. for every cool tool that Festool makes there is a cheaper unit elsewhere that is every bit as good but doesn't have DC and I just don't care about DC so I'd be a fool to pay for it.
I agree, in part, about Festool's dust collection being a big draw. That's why I purchased their sander and vacuum, but their cordless drill is a gas.
Gary K.

[Dino Makropoulos]

My friend had experienced this several times and found that to get an edge that's dead-on square, he has to adjust the saw to square with the saw sitting on the guide rail and the guide rail sitting on a solid surface. Which can be done, but is not easy or convenient. Fortunately, it only has to be done occasionally (assuming someone like me doesn't come along and mess up his adjustment).

.


Paul.
You right. The saw must be adjusted on the rail.
Here are the instructions that you can follow with any rail and saw.

http://www.eurekazone.com/photoinstructions/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=124

[Steveo O'Banion]

I think I'll take up knitting.....

[Gary Keedwell]

I think I'll take up knitting.....
:confused::confused::confused: Am I missing something?

[frank shic]

two knitting needles, some yarn and your READY TO GO unlike this ongoing downward spiral... hmm... i wonder if i could fit a bandsaw in my garage... how about a lathe? oh wait, there's another NEW tool on the market!!! i'd still rather produce a bookcase than a pullover sweater, though! :D