Using a DW735 to plane maple hardwood

[Ryan Schultz]

Hi There

My wife and I are currently building a new house in Lorette, Manitoba. We purchased some 30 year old maple hardwood flooring (1" think, 2 1/4" wide) from a local school and would like to install it in the new house. We purchased a DW735 hoping that it would be able to take the paint and coating off the wood as well as level it out before we installed it. We plan on using a drum sander after its installed, but the difference in height in some of the boards is fairly significant.

We went through one set of blades on less than 100 board feet and since we have about 700 sq feet to do, the cost of blades is going to be ridiculous if we continue on our current path.

Does anyone have any experience doing this type of thing or suggestions on how we can remove the paint and coating and level the wood out? We're open to anything!

Thanks

[Maurice Ungaro]

Ryan,
First of all, welcome to The Creek!
Secondly, I've had some experience doing what you are descibing, albeit, the wood flooring was heart pine, and it had at least 4 layers of porch paint. I think you've found out that paint stripping with a finish planer is....well......costly! My advice is to use a non-caustic (kinder to the wood grain) paint stripper to remove MOST, if not all of the paint. After that, your DW735 should breeze right through that stuff.

Anyone have ideas on what the best paint stripper would be for this application?

[Andrew Williams]

How about a powerwasher?

[Wilbur Pan]

We purchased some 30 year old maple hardwood flooring (1" think, 2 1/4" wide) from a local school and would like to install it in the new house. We purchased a DW735 hoping that it would be able to take the paint and coating off the wood....
A thought occurred to me: given the age of the wood and paint you are using, did you check for lead? You're in Canada, so I don't know when lead paint would have been phased out, but in the U.S. lead paint was banned in 1978, which is right about the time your boards come from.

If you are using a planer to remove paint, and that paint has lead in it, you're going to be spewing lead dust all over the place.

[scott spencer]

I've taken thick brittle paint off from oak before but never maple, and nothing close to those quantities. The paint is tough on the blades....I tend to do two passes per board. One with old knicked up blades to get the paint off and save sharper blades for a final pass.

...Just thinking out loud...since the finish on the first pass isn't critical, does anyone know if you can run that planer using only one or two blades instead of 3?

[John Viercinski]

Ryan,

Are you trying to get each board to finish quality and then moving on to the next board and starting over? It may be more efficient to plane all the boards down just enough to get the paint off first and to a uniform thinckness. Then, run each of them again with a new set of blades to get them to finish quality. That way, even if your blades get a little banged up removing the paint, who cares? I think you'll get more mileage out of your blades. Just a guess though...

[Ryan Schultz]

Thanks for the quick responses!

Maurice/Andrew: We had considered using both a paint stripper and powerwasher, but shyed away from those options due to not wanting to introduce any mositure on to the wood.

Wilbur: It had been repainted and refished a few times since it was originally put it, so the lead paint shouldn't be an issue.

We were also given the suggestion to use a table top drum sander to remove the paint, but the price was $800+. Has anyone ever used something like that to remove paint from hardwood flooring.

[Ryan Schultz]

Hi John

That's the thing. We planned to put the wood through at least twice. We were taking only a minimal amount off during the first pass and the blades were still getting nicked. After I did some more research online and found that there may be some issues with the 735 blades, I was a little nervous about nicking up all of the wood and then having issues trying to remove the nicks later.

[Matt Day]

Forgive me if you know these things already, but make sure you're paying attention to the grain when you feed it through. The blades should be cutting with the grain. I always think of the grain likes petting a cat; it's a lot harder to go against the hair than with. If you're going against the grain, it will case nicks which are referred to as tearout.

I would take very light passes, and make sure to use the blades equally. Don't always put the boards in the middle as this will wear out the center of the blade.

[Michael Schwartz]

The blades in the 735 are a bit soft, it is a good planer though.

My experience with the 735 is that it is capable of top quality work, although I know of a production shop that has gone through a few of them, which they have one along side a 25" jet.

Be sure to check everything you are planing with a metal detector, and brush any grit or dirt you find off of rough lumber.

Also, don't bother replacing the knives every single time you knick them. The planer should be quite a bit wider than the flooring. Shift it arround to wear the dull the knives evenly, and if you have a knick on one side, put it through on the other on the final pass.

Another option is to just put all the flooring through, chew up the knives taking the finish off, and then change the knives and put everything through for a final pass.

A few ridges caused by nicks are ok, they will sand out with the drum sander when you install it.

[Sam Shank]

If the boards are really that different, it won't matter whether or not you surface them on the planer or on the floor after install.

I'd try to sort the boards by thickness. Really thin ones in one pile, medium, and thick. Then install. Then start with 24 grit. If that clogs, go down as far as you have to.

When installing, use the similar thickness boards close to each other, in different rooms if you can and you won't have to take so much off the thicker ones to get to that one that is way thin in the middle of all those thick ones.

Good sandpaper isn't cheap, but it's cheaper than planer blades.

Good luck, Sam

[Bruce Benjamin]

Also, don't bother replacing the knives every single time you knick them. The planer should be quite a bit wider than the flooring. Shift it arround to wear the dull the knives evenly, and if you have a knick on one side, put it through on the other on the final pass.


Just to add to Michael's good advice, when you get a nick in the blades you can just loosen one blade and shift it over a bit. That takes the nick that is in all the blades and gives it one fresh blade surface to clean up the line left in the wood. You can do this many times with the blades since you have 3 blades and 2 sides per blade. You only barely have to shift the blade to see the results. You'll greatly extend the life of your blades by doing as Michael said and then blade shifting when that stops working.

Bruce

[Dick Strauss]

Ryan,
Have you thought about buying a Porter Cable "Power Paint Remover" tool? Wagner makes something similar called the "PaintEater". I would assume the PC to be a better quality tool but who really knows. The PC disc uses tungsten carbide chunks bonded to a wheel for removal whereas the Wagner looks like it uses an old rust/paint stripper wheel mounted to their special tool. I was considering buying one of these to remove alligatored paint the next time I paint my grandma's house. You may also be able to mount one of the discs (about $10) in a drill press running at highest speed and fixed where you run the boards across the drill press table but underneath the spinning disc. You may also be able to strip them with an angle grinder with attachment depending on your desired final thickness.

You'd definitely want to run them through your Dewalt for final finishing and thickness but something in here may help.

Picture of Tool:
http://portercable.cpoworkshop.com/specialty_tools/power_paint_removers/7403.html

Closeup of disc:
http://portercable.cpoworkshop.com/accessories/carbide_discs/18030.html?ref=shopping18030

Wagner link:
http://www.wagnerspraytech.com/portal/painteater_spray,,747.html


I hope this helps,
Dick

[Greg Funk]

A few years ago we had to reduce the thickness of some 10" cedar siding that had been pre-painted with latex paint. It didn't take many boards to dull the planer blades so I bought a carbide set and they had no problem. If you can get a set of carbide knives for your planer you should be OK. If not, I would chemically strip the paint before planing.

Greg

[Derek Jones]

Ryan,
I was in the exact situation a few months ago except the flooring was oak. I salvaged some oak flooring from two houses that were about 80 years old and planned on planing them down to the same thickness with a Dewalt 735. I also had boards that were thicker than others. The problem I ran into was the residue on the flooring made the boards resist "sliding" through the 735. I went ahead and installed the floor and then went back with a drum sander at 40 grit, then 60, wood filler, then 100 grit. Drum sanders with those grits are agressive and with a little patience you can get the boards leveled up. The floor met my expectations.
Hope this helps.
Derek

[jason lambert]

I think you just have a bad mix the blades on that plainer do not last long and you are stripping paint. There is no easy way out you cold get another plainer that takes carbide blades or some other plainer whoes blades are harder and cheaper but that is probably not a reality and would still cost you blades. Not sure what to sugest here, can another brand of plainer be rented?

[Brian Erickson]

Another problem I've had with my Dewalt planer is that the original blades were dull to start with. The first "side" of the planer knives didn't last an entire project. After that first one was complete, however, the other side of the blades has lasted much, much longer. It's an easy "flip" with that machine to the other side of the blades. I think, with others here, that you're asking a lot of the planer, but I would be surprised if you didn't get a lot more mileage once you flipped the knives.

[glenn bradley]

I think you already have your answer but, I don't run finishes through my planer. Knives cost much more than stripper.

[Andrew Williams]

Maurice/Andrew: We had considered using both a paint stripper and powerwasher, but shyed away from those options due to not wanting to introduce any mositure on to the wood.


If I were using the powerwasher I would not worry about introducing moisture into the wood. I would wash off the paint, then sticker the lumber and let it dry outside. Then I'd move it into the shop and re-sticker the stack for 2 weeks to let it acclimate. Finally joint and plane them to final thickness. However, if the paint was lead based, then I think I would chemically strip it, making sure to bag the remains and take to hazardous waste disposal.

[Al Killian]

What about a heat gun? I can strip paint of maple pretty quick with it. Then go thru and stand it.

[Eddie Darby]

If you want to sand off the paint first, then the V-drum sander from stockroomsupply.com will do that without gumming up the sandpaper, or tearing if you hit a nail.

Then you can pass the thick floor pieces through your thickness planer.

[fRED mCnEILL]

Buy a second set of blades and have them sharpened. Should only cost you about $30 per sharpening. It certainly will be cheaper than an $800 drum sander. Don't worry about the nicks on the first pass. The nicks will either dissapear of a subsequent planning or will sand out when you finish sanding the installed floor.

Fred Mc.

[James Suzda]

Okay, I’m going to throw a whole different opinion at you. With the grit and foreign matter that was ground into the finish of those old floorboards I don’t think you will ever get them planed without ruining your 735 knives in short order. As for the suggestion from another poster about getting the knives re-sharpened for the 735, forget it. I tried that route and when you grind the two surfaces of the knives, they become too narrow and the screw heads hit the material you working with. (You will see some real nice shinny streaks and groves in your wood!)
Now, you said you were going to sand your newly installed floor with a drum sander anyway. So, just install the flooring, old finish and all, and sand it down. Doing it this way you will remove all the old finish, plus each board will be sanded down to be level with each other. Even when installing new “real” flooring that isn’t of the engineered type plywood surfaced flooring, the flooring has to be sanded smooth with a floor sander.
As for sanding, if you haven’t run the drum type floor sander you can ruin your nice new floor in seconds. Search your rental places to try to find the belt type floor sander. These are a bit more forgiving and will not sand grooves in your flooring if you stop moving the machine. Then you start out with some 25 or 30 grit paper and that will grind the old finish off in short order and level out all the flooring. Then you start switching grits until you get down to the 120 or so grit for your final finish. Also don’t even consider one of these disk sanders that you see in the BORGS. I tried one and it’s just a toy when it comes to trying to remove old finish or leveling out the floor boards. I think they were put on the market to remove floor wax! If the only option is to use the drum sander just keep it moving whenever the drum is touching the floor, don’t ever stop in one spot! This is an “angry” machine and will remove all your old finish from the floor in minutes with the 25 grit paper!
Sorry about the long post, but I had a lot to say! <GRIN>
Jim

[Sam Shank]

. Then you start switching grits until you get down to the 120 or so grit for your final finish. Also don’t even consider one of these disk sanders that you see in the BORGS. I tried one and it’s just a toy when it comes to trying to remove old finish or leveling out the floor boards. I think they were put on the market to remove floor wax! If the only option is to use the drum sander just keep it moving whenever the drum is touching the floor, don’t ever stop in one spot! This is an “angry” machine and will remove all your old finish from the floor in minutes with the 25 grit paper!

good advice about not stopping with the sander. Those would be called stop marks. And, depending on how bad they are, can be removed with the 'useless disk sanders'. I'm talking about a slow speed (175 rpm) floor buffer here. Yes, the same ones you see custodial staff using to strip wax on the floor (some of those are high speed 350rpm). Get a red pad, and an 80, 100, and 120 disc. You can stop with the drum at 80, and switch to this. It works well for removing stop marks, as long as you don't have too many of them.

And, start with the highest grit on the drum (or belt) sander you can get away with. Does 60 remove the finish/paint and not clog? Then start there. If not, go down. You can go all the way to 00 if you need to, but those grit are reserved for really really bad floors (like stages with duct tape on them.) You probably won't need anything less than 24. I'd try 36 first, and if it doesn't gum up, use that.

By the way, depending on the finish you choose, you will have to abrade between coats. At least screen after 1 or 2 seal coats to knock the grain down (if you use water base). The buffer is the tool to use there. Use maroon discs to abrade, and flip them every 250 sqft (500 ft per disc). They're cheap and make sure you have enough for the whole job. Use a used 120 or new 150 disc under a red pad if you need to knock the grain down if you use a water based finish.

Good luck! Sam

[Ryan Schultz]

Thanks for all the replies and great suggestions! I'll post back with pictures and let you know what we used and how we made out.

Thanks again!