Japanese chisel question

[Stephen Pereira]

Hi all,

I am trying to learn how to make handcut dovetails. I read somewhere that the side bevel on dovetail chisels are ground to almost a knife edge. I was loathe to grind my new Swedish chisels so I ordered a few Japanese chisels from Grizzly assuming that Japanese chisels are ground in that manner. Chisels arrived today.. no knife edge. So my questions is: should the bevel edges of dovetail chisels be ground to a knife edge?

I ground a few old plastic handled chisels with a wood jig beveled at 22 deg on my belt sander.. looks wierd but came out fairly straight and even.

Thanks in advance,

Steve

[Mike K Wenzloff]

I've used square sided firmers and just skew the chisel. Craftsmen have done so for a long, long time.

But the smaller the DTs, the nicer it is to have the side bevels reach, or nearly so, the backs.

I got some Blue Spruce chisels for another use and have found them to be about the best chisel made for paring DTs. One cannot strike them, but I cope the waste out rather than chop anyway.

http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/temp/bspruce_0002.jpg

http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/temp/bspruce_0003.jpg

They hold and edge incredibly well.

For chopping DTs, the LN chisels are reportedly really good. One doesn't need but a couple sizes of either.

Take care, Mike

[Michael Schwartz]

I am just starting with dovetails myself and after my first attempt (not bad) I realized how important skew chisels are. I have been using my Swiss Made skew carving chisel which of course has two bevels, with some success.

What are the most essential chisels to have fore dovetail work, and in what sizes?

[Wilbur Pan]

I was loathe to grind my new Swedish chisels so I ordered a few Japanese chisels from Grizzly assuming that Japanese chisels are ground in that manner.
Mike already answered the question about whether you need a knife edge on the side of a chisel for dovetails.

But for the record, Japanese chisels are not necessarily ground to a knife edge on the sides. Pretty close, but not quite.

By the way, if you want to try to grind the edge of either one of your chisels, go for it!

[Stephen Pereira]

Thanks to those who replied.

Mike W... nice chisels!! Thanks for the pictures. Speaking of paring rather than chopping there is a video from Spring Harvest Fine Woodworking where the instructor uses a coping saw and paring technique.. he makes it look easy.

Steve

[Derek Cohen]

While you can use any chisel to cut/chop/pair dovetails, some make it easier than others.

If all you have is a square-sided chisel (like a firmer), then you would chop through the centre of the tail and avoid bruising the sides, Then you could either skew a chisel to clean out that area, or use a skew chisel to do so.

Having said this, unless you are a confirmed masochist, you would get chisels that are more dovetail friendly.

Like Mike (and others) I have a set of the Blue Spruce detail/dovetail chisels, and they are the best I have seen or used for this purpose. Keep in mind that they are only used for pushing, never for chopping.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Chisels/Dovetailchisels2.jpg

I do still have a set of Berg chisels that I modified for dovetails. Out-of-the-box these are nearly ideal, since they have very narrow shoulders. Still, I ground these down further.

For chopping I have Koyamaichi and Matsumura dovetail chisels. These do not come with narrow shoulders. So far I have only ground the Matsumura shoulders. This has been successful so now I plan to do the others.

To the left are the Matsumura prior to grinding the shoulders (as you can see, they are not to different from the bench chisels on the right side):

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Chisels/Japanesechiselsprofile1.jpg

Also consider making or buying skew chisels. These are necessary for cleaning out half-blind dovetails. And/or get a few fishtail chisels. I have a couple of Japanese ones that also make fantastic pairing chisels, plus a few I made myself.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Chisels/Dovetailchisel1.jpg

Lastly, I made a thin blade, the width of a saw kerf, to hammer into the half sawn waste of half-blind pins to make waste removal easier.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Chisels/Dovetailblade.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek