Anant hand planes

[Marc Hills]

Hi all:

Ever the frugal Yankee, I've been picking up increasing chatter that Anant hand planes (made in India, that hotbed of Western style woodworking) present a servicable middle ground between low end cheapies (heck, even modern Stanleys) and high end planes like Lie-Neilson, Veritas, Clifton, and the like.

I am aware that well-tuned antiques come in closer to the L-N side of the spectrum. In fact, I own and enjoy several antique users.

I'm interested in the Anant line however because it offers a few "speciality" planes at very good prices. The modern equivalents are VERY expensive, as are the antique originals, assuming you can even find them in the wild.

Hartville Hardware sells an Anant low angle block plane with an adjustable mouth; an apparent copy of the Stanley 60 1/2.
http://www.hartvilletool.com/product.php?search_id=63811

Woodworker's supply offers an Anant bullnose plane that looks to be patterned after the Stanley 92.
http://www.woodworkersupply.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=829-834

And finally, Highland Hardware offers an Anant model that is a dead ringer for the Stanley no. 10 cabinet maker's plane; complete with a full width iron and cut out sidewalls.
http://www.tools-for-woodworking.com/product.asp?0=243&1=425&3=4658

Notice that if one wants all three, they'd have to order from three suppliers, each with their own shipping costs. Why can't a single distributor carry the entire line?!

Don Kugelberg mentioned in another thread that he has had good experience with an Anant bench plane (what, a No. 4 Don?), after tuning, of course. Don, can you elaborate and does anyone else have any comments on the Anant line as a poor man's route to these speciality planes?

[Don Kugelberg]

Marc,

American Woodworker back in early 1996 (pre-Readers Digest days) did a comparison of smoothers and rated the Anant a “Best Value” for the money. My own personal experience with Anant began in 2000 when a co-worker gave me an Anant 78 duplex rabbet plane which is a knockoff of the Stanley 78. I liked the fact that it had a double-armed fence instead of the single arm fence the Stanley came with. It tuned up nicely and is one of my users.

As for smoothers, I do have an Anant #4. The casting quality is good, it does have an adjustable frog and a vertical adjuster. I would put it on par with a Stanley made post world war II before they completely went to pot. The tote and knob were plastic (since replaced). The blade leaves something to be desired but can be sharpened to produce fine shavings. I eventually replaced mine with a Hock for longevity reasons.

An Anant smoother with replacement knob and tote and a hock blade will put you in the clover for way less than a Clifton, Lee Valley, Lie-Nielsen and the knowledge you acquire in fettling the Anant will not be wasted. Too many of us have forgotten how intimidating it was to buy our first couple of old tools not knowing whether we would finish with a reasonable tool or not. I just believe we should make the slope a little
more slippery for the newbies than it already is. Remember when you didn't know whether the bevel went up or down in a block plane?

I have close to 50 other planes which include older Stanley's and some new Knight wood planes. My tuned Anant planes fit right in with my other users with no embarrassment. I believe it is easier for a newbie to purchase a new plane which he/she knows is complete and undamaged as a way to get his/her feet wet in fettling a plane. Once the mechanics of planing and fettling are learned, it is easier to know what you've just picked up at a flea market or evaluate what you've seen on eBay. Joe's experience with the "USA" plane on the newbie thread illustrates my point. On the other hand, I wouldn't walk into the local big box and purchase a current production Stanley #4 or into Sears and buy a plane and expect it to become a user no matter how much fettling was done to it. Those planes are junk.

Okay, I’ve now stepped off the soapbox now. Thanks for listening and feel free to disagree, its all only my two cents!

[Marc Hills]

Hi Don:

As someone new to the hobby since AWW’s 1996 article, your post is the best info I’ve seen on Anant planes. Thanks.

Supposedly the Anant planes carried by the suppliers I mentioned come with rosewood totes and knobs, although even the advertising copy suggests they aren’t exactly finished with care.

Have you seen or handled any of the particular models I mentioned? Particularly the low angle block or the bullnose rabbet plane?

I’m guilty as charged re: buying a new plane from a big box retailer (see my latest post in Joe’s thread). I disagree a bit about whether such a plane can ultimately become useable; I managed it. But your larger point is well taken. I think we can agree that the people to whom such a plane is marketed are the least prepared to know how to properly fettle it, and those who have developed the necessary tuning skills wouldn’t touch that kind of tool with a four foot level.

When you say we should make the slope more slippery for newbies, do you mean make owning decent, usable planes more accessible? I know that when I was in Joe’s position about a year ago, I was extremely frustrated that the only alternatives to mass market tools were either LV, Knight, L-N and their ilk (expensive), or antique shopping (daunting and often also expensive, especially when ill-informed beginner purchases are factored in [DAMHIKT]).

[Don Kugelberg]

Dear Marc,

Thanks for the kudos on my post. You asked:

"Have you seen or handled any of the particular models I mentioned? Particularly the low angle block or the bullnose rabbet plane?"

I have to say, I have not. In regards to the low angle block, I have lately seen Record 060 1/2 low angle blocks on ebay sold by a seller named Sell2All. I think Irwin has clearanced them to get rid of the Record named items from their inventory after their purchase. This is an outstanding plane after fettling and I'd definitely choose one of those before the Anant if I could get it at a good price.

You also asked:

"When you say we should make the slope more slippery for newbies, do you mean make owning decent, usable planes more accessible?"

What I meant is, if a newbie invests the time to fettle a plane and is unsuccessful due to a flaw in the plane he won't know it and may assume its his abilities that are at fault and become discouraged enough to quit hand planing. Purchasing an Anant increases his/her likelihood of success the first time around. As you said, purchasing a older plane can be "daunting and often also expensive, especially when ill-informed beginner purchases are factored in". I seek to make that first experience less daunting and less expensive.

Lord knows, once you've started to slide down the slope there's plenty of time to discover the joys of making curls with Steve Knight's planes, the brilliance of Lee Valley and the sheer beauty of Lie-Nielen and Shepherd Planes, to say nothing of discovering a rare Stanley in the wild. Please don't tell my wife how I know this!

Don

(who is thankful that his very first plane was a Record smoother born in the late sixties but not removed from the box until I fettled under the direction of a skilled Neander).

[Dave Anderson NH]

While I've only seen (and not used) the Anant planes, they fit somewhere between the post war Stanleys and the garbage made today by the low end makers. If the Anant rabbet plane has two rods to support the fence, it is a clone of the Record 778 rather than the Stanley 78. This would be preferable for the extra stiffnes it gives the fence.

I am not a fan of bullnose planes. In my experience they are finicky to use and the small nosepiece prevents getting into the corners which you want to clean up. Alternately, if you take off the nose and use it as a chisel plane, it invaiably will dig into your work. Without the nosepiece, it is also extremely uncomfortable to use and you can get a good grip only with great difficulty. A better and cheaper choice is a good cranked neck chisel which will allow you to get all the way into a corner. The chisel also can be used for other tasks like cleaning the bottom of dados and grooves.

[Marc Hills]

You guys are great. This is really useful insight and information.

Don, I had noticed the Record planes on ebay, but they were all going for about $30-40 plus shipping. One could argue that even at that price they are worth the premium over the $30 Anant, but to me buying from a real company that is there for post sale service, as opposed to an ebay reseller, is worth something. Plus, Sell2All’s supply of Record block planes seems to have dried up, at least for a moment. Shall we start a new thread about his Nooitgedagt woodies?

I’ve also been eying some older Craftsman low angle knuckle joints. But their selling prices too always seem to balloon at the last moment.

Dave, I thought perhaps you had just set the forum free to see if we were old enough to fly on our own.

I hadn’t thought of the cranked neck chisel idea. My interest in the bullnose was for a variety of uses including something that can fill in for a shoulder plane until such time as I can afford either the Lee Valley model or a Shepherd kit. My joinery skills have progressed to the point where I’m paying more attention to the fit at the shoulder line. Up till now, just getting the tenon to fit snugly was a triumph.

Plus I thought the bullnose could pinch hit for cleaning out dados and rabbets.

Maybe you can elaborate on the various uses of a cranked neck chisel, Dave. Frankly - and I hope I’m not stepping on anyone’s toes - but if an operation can be performed reasonably well by either a plane or a chisel-type tool, I’m inclined to opt for a plane. I feel like I’d do a lot less damage to myself with a plane than a chisel DAMHIKT. Even visualizing using a crank neck chisel makes me nervous. I just know my own work habits and what that nervous feeling means, especially when I’m in the shop.

Not that you’d know anything about little voices, Dave.

[Brian Matthews]

As a newbie myself to woodworking, I must say that this thread has been one of the most useful I have seen in the 10 months since I found the 'Creek.

I am on the edge of the "slippery slope" everyone keeps talking about. I have a Record #4, Veritas low angle block plane that I bought while taking some beginner woodworking classes. My first real project in my new home's basement shop (totally undeveloped save some lights I wired in) will be a good bench. I have been leaning towards going total Neander as the noise, space required, and expense of a jointer & planer is just not feasible until I can build a garage.

I was leaning towards picking up a scrub plane and jointer or jack to able to square my own stock. Any suggestions on models/manufacturers?

Thanks for the excellent input so far, and I look forward to following the thread further.


Brian

[Brian Matthews]

Oops,

I guess I should actually point out that this and the thread before regarding setting up shop with respect to what planes are essential are the best threads I have seen.

Not had any coffee yet today....


Brian

[Don Kugelberg]

Dear Brian,

Unless you are starting with rough stock from a lumber mill I would think that the scrub plane is an unnecessary luxury for a newbie. Most of us buy our boards only slightly thicker than needed (i.e. we might buy 6/4 or 8/4 but very seldom would we take an 8/4 board down to 1"). For initial surfacing a jack set for a rough cut can remove a lot of wood quickly.

If you bought #6 bench plane you might not need the jointer (depending on how large the normal size boards are that you are going to surface). The only downside to using a #6 for stock removal is the strength it requires to propel the plane. If you are on the small size you might want to buy a #5 jack but this then would require you to also purchase a #7 for jointing.

I really think you also need to purchase a low angle block plane for your apron. It is indispensible for all types of woodwroking not only neander. If you are already familiar with plane mechanics and function and have fettled your Record #4 to produce silky shavings you can venture out in search of old Stanley iron. Millers Falls and Sargent (especially the VBM series) tend to be lower cost alternatives which were still very good planes. If you prefer new, its hard to fault the Veritas line of planes or even the woodies of Steve Knight.

If cost is an issue, dive in an buy an Anant plane from Highland Hardware (isn't that where this thread started?) and form your own opinion as to their quality.

Be warned however, the more planes you buy, the faster the slide down the slippery slope. I think the weight of the planes increases forward momentum as you fall! I now have more planes than I will admit to in my wife's presence and I keep finding a "need" for just one more.

[Michael Campbell]

As a newbie myself to woodworking, I must say that this thread has been one of the most useful I have seen in the 10 months since I found the 'Creek.

I am on the edge of the "slippery slope" everyone keeps talking about. I have a Record #4, Veritas low angle block plane that I bought while taking some beginner woodworking classes. My first real project in my new home's basement shop (totally undeveloped save some lights I wired in) will be a good bench. I have been leaning towards going total Neander as the noise, space required, and expense of a jointer & planer is just not feasible until I can build a garage.

I was leaning towards picking up a scrub plane and jointer or jack to able to square my own stock. Any suggestions on models/manufacturers?

Thanks for the excellent input so far, and I look forward to following the thread further.


Brian


A scrub is pretty hardcore neander (not that *I* haven't looked to buy one in the past!)

I'm going with the electric bandsaw for resawing, then handplaning from there. That said, my "stable" includes a jack, jointer, smoother, and low angle block. And some others I got due to a crazy "gotta have" streak..., but those 4 for dimensioning, finishing, and general use.

I'm only conversant in Stanley, so I can't offer much advice for the other brands due simply to my own ignorance. I would try to avoid the "new" stanleys; try for type 17's (for the thicker castings) or type 11's which is the favorite type among many.

Jack: #5

Jointer: #7 or #8. (8's a bit more expensive, and heavy; some love 'em some hate 'em.) #6's can be used for shorter boards.

Smoother: #4 1/2 is the current darling, but a #3 or #4 will do fine too. Even your #5 will work if you set it up right.


As for woodies, I'm told all of Steve Knight's stuff is excellent. I have one of his jointers, but I haven't had the opportunity to use it yet (soon!) His smoothers are very highly regarded. Check www.knight-toolworks.com for those. He also sells on Ebay, and he almost always gets the "buy it now" price.

I've never used Anants but I hear some chatter on boards that people are cautiously optimistic about them. Most people seem pleasantly surprised.

[Brian Matthews]

Hi Don,

Thanks for input. I guess I will make my next buy either a #6 or #7. The dealer that I buy my wood from will joint/square one edge and face of each board purchased. This should get me started dimensioning the rest of the way by hand.

I am not too concerned about pushing a larger plane through the wood, I am 6'3" and just over 200 lbs (trying to get to 190, but that's a different struggle).

As you theorized, I am on a very limited budget, so I will forgo the scrub plane as you suggest. Better to spend my $$$ on wood!

Also, I do have the Lee Valley low angle block plane for my apron, just got it after Christmas. Love it already, but I must continue to refine my sharpening skills. End grain is still abit hard for me to shavings off. Mostly I produce dusty crud off the white oak I have played around with. I have the low angle block set to take the finest shaving possible, but I find it still jumps and skips. If I set it any more shallow, I am not getting the blade on the wood. Might the blade not be sharp enough?



Brian

[Marc Hills]

"End grain is still abit hard for me to shavings off. . . . . Might the blade not be sharp enough?"

Hi Brian:

The LV low angle is a superb block plane (who recommended it? You were given good advice); it should be able to handle that white oak. Some ideas:

1) You are likely correct that the blade might not be sharp enough. I know that my personal definition of "sharp" evolved significantly during the first several months of my addiction, er hobby, and is still evolving. What kind of sharpening set up do you have?

2) Sharpeness may be 70% of the battle, but technique is the other 30% and is much harder to acheive. I'm on thin ice offering any advice in this regard, in fact. FWIW, make sure the nose of the plane is well-registered on the endgrain surface before the blade meets the wood. If the tool isn't absolutely parallel to the wood, chattering is increased.

Most importantly, I skew the block plane for endgrain cuts, so the blade bites into the wood at a glancing angle. This skewing of the blade seems to introduce an almost scissoring action that makes severing those tough endgrain fibers easier.

I've found that I can best accomplish both the registration and blade skewing by placing my left hand (I'm a righty) sort of half on the nose of the plane and half with the heel of my palm resting lightly on the wood itself.

This last point assumes the wood is held vertically in a vice. Planing endgain with the wood horizontal and hanging off the edge of my bench is a lot harder for me.

[Jeff Kurtz]

Marc,

I own several Anant's - a #4, #7, and their rebate. As already noted, they do require a bit of tweaking, but, after that's been done, you'll have a very servicable plane. My biggest beef with them, however, is the amount of backlash which can make adjustments a bit difficult.

Thought you might find this page interesting. Notice that the wholesale price for a #4 is only $5. Of course, one does have to buy 1,000 at a time! Good luck,

Jeff

http://www.hardwares.globalsources.com/am/article_id/9000000040985/page/showarticle?action=GetArticle

[Dave Anderson NH]

Now if we can only get 1000 of the SMC members together....... LOL!!

[Bart Leetch]

I thought I'd show off part of my little collection.

On the top is a Bailey #6 corrugated that I purchased for $40 Next down on the right is a Fulton #4.
I still have it but have replaced it on the clock with a Bailey #4 with minor pitting purchased for $20 . Next on the right is a Craftsman block plane I purchased both it & the Fulton at a garage sale for $10. On the bottom Is a Bailey #5 on the left purchased for $20 & on th right a Victor that my Dad gave me. All of these planes have been cleaned up fettled the handles were cleaned up & buffed with wax several coats & they all make nice translucent shavings. As a bonus they make a nice old tool eclectic display with the clock.

I also have a Stanley Rabbit plane & a #4 Greatneck surprisingly it works very well & a friend brought me a garage sale Craftsman Handyman which would fall in the #4 range & my Stepmother gave me her Dads #5 Worth which has a sheet metal frog but works ok for ruffing material down. I would like to get a Stanley #92 to tune tenons when I start making Shaker & Mission or Arts & Crafts furniture

Does anyone know where I can get a #92 or one made by another manufacture that has the same quality for somewhere between $40-$60?
A good used one is fine too.

[Rob Lee]

Hi Brian -

Since you're in Calgary - why not contact the store for some help? If you call the Store manager (Kathy Somerville), she can set up having someone help with the sharpening, and technique...

Cheers -

Rob Lee

[James Carmichael]

Hey Marc,

Ever frugal Scottsman (albeit of the Southern variety), my newfound obsession with woodworking and old handtools has been, uh, a conflict since I took it up to save money.

Speaking of Anant and value, awhile back, before I knew anything about them (not that I do now), I bought an old Stanley No 7 jointer on Ebay only to find the iron about gone. Being the chepo I am, I looked around for replacement irons and found the Anants at WoodWorker's Supply for $8.99 and ordered one along with a sharpening jig. The package came today and after looking over the jig I picked up the Anant factory box and thought "Oh my gosh, what did they send, that's way too heavy for a plane iron." Well inside was not one, but four new 2 3/8" plane irons.

I keep wondering if this was a mistake by WW supply, but the Anant factory box distinctly says "Plan Irons". They fit the No 7 perfectly. Now just need to get the 800 - 2000 grit sandpaper to sharpen one of these pups. Anybody know a cheap source?

Well, once again the frugality paradox kicks in, since I've got 4 irons instead of 1, I gotta use em up before I die, so I'd better go get a bunch of wood to start jointing.....it never ends!

[Wendell Wilkerson]

Hey Marc,
I keep wondering if this was a mistake by WW supply, but the Anant factory box distinctly says "Plan Irons". They fit the No 7 perfectly. Now just need to get the 800 - 2000 grit sandpaper to sharpen one of these pups. Anybody know a cheap source?


Here's a place I found on the web with cheap prices.

Online Industrial Supply (http://shop.store.yahoo.com/industrialsupply/abrasive-sheets-silicon-carbide-waterproof-9--by-11--paper-sheets.html)

I haven't ordered anything from them yet but for about $70 you can enough sandpaper for a couple years supply.

Wendell

[Marc Hills]

Brian:

Now HOW is that for service? You off-handedly remark on your difficulties with a Lee Valley product and you get an unsolicited offer of assistance not from just any company representative, but the president of the company himself.

My hat is off to you, Rob Lee. You must love your job because you are really, really good at it. I’m in customer relations, so I’m a big fan of pointing out exemplary customer service when I see it. When people ask: "what am I REALLY getting for my $100 in a Lee Valley block plane that I'm not getting in cheaper version?" Your company's many examples of personal service come to mind. THIS is what one gets, and all it represents.

Jeff:

I’ve noticed that backlash is a problem with the Bailey adjusting mechanism in general. Is it worse in an Anant plane than a comparable Stanley/Record/Sargent/M-F model?

James:

I love it that your Scottish/Frugal/Neander makeup somehow compels you to feel you must actually use up those 4 joiner plane irons in your life time. I respectfully suggest that if you make any significant progress towards that goal, you contact the organizers of the closest Highland games festival and sign up for one of the strength and endurance events.

FYI: try your local auto parts center (NAPA, etc) for ultra fine grit abrasive papers.

[Jeff Kurtz]

Marc,

Yes, it's noticeably worse than a Bailey, but not too terribly much. I think it may be a source of great frustration to a newbie. (It is for me, but I've never been accused of having an excess of patience.) Guess this experience has contributed to my preference for wood bodied planes.

I've never used a L-N, LV, or a Bedrock, so I'm not sure if this is a problem with them.

Jeff

[Michael Campbell]

Here's a place I found on the web with cheap prices.

Online Industrial Supply (http://shop.store.yahoo.com/industrialsupply/abrasive-sheets-silicon-carbide-waterproof-9--by-11--paper-sheets.html)

I haven't ordered anything from them yet but for about $70 you can enough sandpaper for a couple years supply.

Wendell

I have ordered from them and was very pleased. I got exactly what I ordered, it was shipped quickly, the quality seems good. I'll order from them again.

[Brian Matthews]

Rob,

Thank you for the suggestion. My hat is off to you for your input. The suggestion to contact the store is, I suppose, a simple act of customer service from your persepective, but truly goes above and beyond.

Everyone that I have dealt with in the Calgary location has been knowledgable and more than willing to take the time with each and every customer to ensure they are well looked after. I have looked into attending one of the sharpening seminars offered through the store, but my schedule is abit too tight at the moment.

It is not surpising to see that you have your fingers on the pulse of these posting boards. Lee Valley/Veritas has shown its innovation and excellent design in many of the tools offered. I imagine that many ideas are spawned after seeing the gripes/problems with other tools in posts and messages on sites such as this.

It is obvious to anyone the level of passion most Saw Mill Creek members have for the wonderful craft of woodworking.



Marc,

Again, thanks for your input.

My sharpening setup is 800 & 4000 grit waterstones, followed by 0.5 micron mylar film from Lee Valley. I know that my technique does not do me any favours yet. That setup should work (I think). I use the mylar on a piece of plate glass, but have not tried the adhesive backed type yet. I think I am getting a small bow wave in the mylar that may be ruining the edge as I hone.

I watched a sharpening demonstration last October at the Calgary woodworking show that was put on by the Lie Neilson rep, and have been trying the freehand technique he was using. He raised the plane iron off the primary bevel a few degrees freehand, and pulled the iron back across the stone. After lapping the back abit to remove the burr, he was getting beautiful shavings. I did not see him do this on endgrain though. Maybe that technique is not precise enough the that.

I do also have a sharpening guide, but find it works well only for intitial sharpening with the 800.

Don't misunderstand me, I am not frustrated with my lack of success when sharpening. I am just wanting to utilize what I know are high quality tool to the best of my ability. I know that my technique will improve, and am eager to hear any suggestions you or anyone else might have. Mostly, I think I have not spent enough time practicing.

However, because it is about -35 celsius here right now, I may have more time the shop as I certainly will not be going out much!!


Brian

[Richard Gillespie]

[I keep wondering if this was a mistake by WW supply, but the Anant factory box distinctly says "Plan Irons". They fit the No 7 perfectly. Now just need to get the 800 - 2000 grit sandpaper to sharpen one of these pups. Anybody know a cheap source?

As a source for your various grades of sand paper you might consider the Red Hill Corporation north of Gettysburg, PA. They can be reached at http:/www.supergrit.com

I'm not connected to the company in any other way than as a satisfied customer. They have more forms of sand paper than I knew existed and the prices are excellent.