Son's flying lessons

[Mitchell Andrus]

So, It's been about three weeks, he's got 11 hours air time so far and if the weather holds, he'll solo in mid to late September. That puts him in good shape for plenty of lesson/practice time for his exams in February. His 17th B'day is 2/20/08 so he can't get his license til then anyway. He wants his pilot license before his driver's license... bragging rights!

He really wants to fly choppers, and has had a quick lesson in one, even got to fly it for a while.

I've got to hand it to him, he's hitting the books (a 3 inch high pile of 'em) and is churning through the checklist with his instructor. It's about a month to the start of school when I expect things to slow down a bit.

Private pilot lessons: $12,000.00
Instrument flight rating lessons: $9,000.00
College: $Left leg

Launching a career: $Priceless

[John Schreiber]

Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: what more could you ask of life? Aviation combined all the elements I loved.
~ Charles A. Lindbergh, The Spirit of St. Louis

Flying is wonderful, but expensive.

[Jim Becker]

Very exciting. And it looks like your son is good at setting a goal and working hard toward it. That's always a good thing! Congrats!

[Lee Schierer]

Priceless....the look on Dad's face when the son asks:

"Hey dad, can I have a plane to get back and forth to college. It would be faster than a car and I could come home more often on the shorter breaks from school to spend time with you and mom."

[Matt Meiser]

College might cost you a left leg, but it will grow back quickly.

[Mitchell Andrus]

Funny... Funny.

Actually, he's looking at universities that have avaition science colleges, so flying will be a big part of college life.

[Curt Harms]

Lots of crap to keep track of. The commercial rating is a glorified private with a bunch more crap thrown in, the ATP is a glorified instrument rating with a bunch more crap thrown in. What's going to be interesting is how people who train in glass cockpits deal with steam powered avionics, i.e. spinning gyros and no moving maps. I guess the good news is that the older turboprops & jets have EFIS upgrades available. Some of the older less popular instruments are getting VERY hard to support. There hasn't been a new one made in 15 years and with each instrument overhaul has a shorter duration before it breaks again.

Good luck to him, it beats having a real job!:p

Curt

[John Schreiber]

Good luck to him, it beats having a real job!:p
While it's a great job because you get to fly, and that's one of the coolest things in the world, it's not that great a job in other ways.

The airlines are hurting big time and new pilots come in with a different contract than they did in the good old days. Labor relations are very tough. Pilots work odd hours and don't get to decide when to come home. Job security is poor. If you love it, it's great, but it's not all pie in the sky.

[Mitchell Andrus]

Glass cockpits are nice, but his school http://www.certifiedflyers.com/ has a variety of planes/instrument set-ups, so students get a feel for all of it - have to... the FAA examiner can shut off (cover) any instrument he wants to during the test.

Yep, tough business. My brother in law is a pilot for Air Cananda - 32 years. He just got one of their new 777's. He calls his own routes, works 15-18 days a month because he flies int'l long hauls and there are lay over rules... He did earn his seniority though. Puddle jumped for years with the commuter arms of Air Canada.

Being a pilot is tough... what isn't?

[Martin Shupe]

Yeah, it's tough alright.

I am not sure it is a career I could recommend to my own son.

First, he will pay big bucks for his ratings, or he will join the military and pay with 10 years of his life, or perhaps his life itself. One of my buds from AOCS is dead, flew his A-6 into a mountain. Another of my students is dead, night cat shot into the water. Military flying is a whole lotta fun, as long as you survive your career.

Civilian guys pay by being poor. The guys flying commuters are not making much to start, and not making much even when they make Captain. Then they play the lottery to get hired by a "good" major. The only problem is, most of the majors have played the bankruptcy game to void their pilot contracts and terminate their pension plans. Funny thing, though, they always have enough money for the lawyers and the executives to walk away with millions, while the pilots get food stamps to feed their families. NW had the nerve to suggest their employees "dumpster dive" to make ends meet. One of my neighbors, a pilot for American, said the starting pay was so low that although he qualified for food stamps, American made him sign a letter saying he would not apply for them. I guess they don't want to look bad, even if they are.

If your son wants to fly civilian, he needs to check out www airlinepilotforums com

If he wants to fly helos (what has he got against jets?), I'd recommend the Navy or Marines over the Army. At least in the Navy/Marines you are an officer and get more pay for risking your life.

Tell your son to study hard and never goof off in an airplane. It is a sure way to die in a hurry. One of my Captains killed himself and his wife doing an impromptu airshow for the friends/relatives they had been visiting. Good way to ruin a weekend.

If he has any questions along the way, feel free to PM. I am gone a lot and out of internet range sometimes, too, so it may be a week or so before I answer, but I will eventually.

My son is 12, and although I would like to see him get his private, if he ever killed himself in an airplane, my wife would never forgive me. We will see about lessons, from somebody else, in a few years.

Let us all know when he solos.

[Jerry Clark]

Of course this is a cheap way to learn!



This is a cool site from Microsoft. Actually it's
more like a game or challenge. Do this only if you have some free
time because it will suck you in and you'll be trying it over and
over again. Don't say I didn't warn you :-)...

http://flightsimx.archive.amnesia.com.au/ (http://flightsimx.archive.amnesia.com.au/)

[Brian Austin]

I find some of these responses interesting, especially from the professional or experienced pilots.

I'm a low hour private pilot with no aspirations for a flying career. It's a hobby, like woodworking and photography. My PPL was more in the $8K range but I haven't priced things lately and it's been a few years. It also wasn't part of a larger school.

One thing that struck me with all of the CFI's and hour building pilots: it's not about the money; it's about the flying. I look at other industries that my hobbies stem from and guess what? It's the same thing. Maybe 1% (or less) of professional woodworkers and photographers actually get rich off of their profession. I'd guess it's probably a bit higher (but not much) for pilots.

It's not about the money. It's about the passion and desire.

[Martin Shupe]

It's not about the money. It's about the passion and desire.

Brian, you are quite correct, which is why there are so many pilots willing to work for poverty wages in order to "build time" for their "dream job". This is precisely how the commuter airlines are able to employ folks for about the same or even less than you can make flipping burgers.

You can put up with this for a few years while you are single, but sooner or later you are going to want to start a family, and you would like to be able to provide a decent standard of living for them.

There has never been a real "pilot shortage" in this country, but unless career expectations change for the better, there may be one in the future. Perhaps if there was a real shortage, then the pay of all pilots would improve.

If the American taxpayer knew how much pension liability had been dumped on them in the last 5 years, they would be furious.

[Scott Shepherd]

Quite a few years ago, I was lucky enough to work with a guy who had a plane. He'd take me flying all the time. I also had sweet hours and good pay, so I decided to take it up myself. I got to the point where I soloed and few a couple more times, and then changed jobs, lost the flexible hours and never made it back to flying. I do recall it being on the biggest personal accomplishments in my life. Taking off is easy. I never thought twice about it. However, when those wheels left the ground and I was by myself, a large dose of reality sank in.

I take great pride in that feat and to this day, it's still one of the biggest things I've ever done.

I also watched my young instructor work his butt off. He flew checks in batches every night. Apparently (I didn't know this), that all banks send their checks to somewhere to be processed or stored. He did that for a couple years, then moved into flying freight in smaller prop planes. It's a tough job with a lot of hours, but if you love it and it's in your blood, I don't think you'd be happy doing anything else.

Good for your Son- that's a great hobby with a load of discipline involved.

[Al Willits]

Well, whatever he does, keep him away from North West Airlines, lack of money will be only one of his problems...

Al

[Jim Dunn]

Soloed at 17hrs in 1991. Which was something that scared me, in a good sorta way. Put in about another 30hrs and then it came time to fly my cross-country. $250 to fly that 4hr course or go fishing for 4 days for the same monies. Flying lost out to a new boat and motor-home:) Still have the memories though.

[Michael Van Voorhis]

Yeah, it's tough alright.

I am not sure it is a career I could recommend to my own son.

First, he will pay big bucks for his ratings, or he will join the military and pay with 10 years of his life, or perhaps his life itself. One of my buds from AOCS is dead, flew his A-6 into a mountain. Another of my students is dead, night cat shot into the water. Military flying is a whole lotta fun, as long as you survive your career.

Civilian guys pay by being poor. The guys flying commuters are not making much to start, and not making much even when they make Captain. Then they play the lottery to get hired by a "good" major. The only problem is, most of the majors have played the bankruptcy game to void their pilot contracts and terminate their pension plans. Funny thing, though, they always have enough money for the lawyers and the executives to walk away with millions, while the pilots get food stamps to feed their families. NW had the nerve to suggest their employees "dumpster dive" to make ends meet. One of my neighbors, a pilot for American, said the starting pay was so low that although he qualified for food stamps, American made him sign a letter saying he would not apply for them. I guess they don't want to look bad, even if they are.

If your son wants to fly civilian, he needs to check out www airlinepilotforums com

If he wants to fly helos (what has he got against jets?), I'd recommend the Navy or Marines over the Army. At least in the Navy/Marines you are an officer and get more pay for risking your life.

Tell your son to study hard and never goof off in an airplane. It is a sure way to die in a hurry. One of my Captains killed himself and his wife doing an impromptu airshow for the friends/relatives they had been visiting. Good way to ruin a weekend.

I second this Martin. I, too, fly for a living. It has become just a job. A job that you are away from home. A lot. I got into it because it felt great. But the airlines sure have changed since I started flying in 1989.

The advice I now give to prospective future aviators is to learn to fly for a hobby. Don't do it as a job. You will be a happier pilot that way. :)

[Kyle Kraft]

Send him to WMU. They have an extensive aviation program. Plus he can experience the wonderful Michigan economy firsthand.

[Mitchell Andrus]

It's on the short list along with Embry-Riddle U. He's thinking about Aviation Business Admin. He's gotten the point that a strong business ed. background can be useful just about anywhere.

[Mitchell Andrus]

I went up with Jonathan and his instructor on Thursday... A few short Youtubes...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLjXFhB8djY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIuQpboS2xw

We (well, HE actually) did 9 touch and gos, all as smooth as the one I shot. He'll solo soon.

There is NO WAY to tell you all what it's like to be flown in a plane piloted by your 16 yo son.

[Curt Harms]

It's on the short list along with Embry-Riddle U. He's thinking about Aviation Business Admin. He's gotten the point that a strong business ed. background can be useful just about anywhere.

One thing professional pilots face not common to other professions is bad news from the medical people. It's better than it used to be, but some medical conditions (heart valve replacements come to mind) are permanent grounding conditions, at least for now. Special issue medicals can overcome a lot of conditions, but he may be grounded for long periods even if he does eventually regain medical certification. I hope he's never faced with that but ya never know.

Curt