end grain to long grain glue joint

[jud dinsmore]

just getting ready to build a butcher block countertop for a house we have under construction and wanted to see if end grain to long grain joints (held together with glue only - titebond 2) will hold up. i'm using cherry and maple alternating 2" squares to create a checkerboard affect. the top is approximately 36" x 48". the flat gain is more attractive and offers a better color varation than gluing it up with the end grain showing. i've glued a mock up (end grain to long grain) using only two pieces and cannot break them apart. just wondering if i'll get the same strength over the whole top. probably the worst stress on the top will be someone standing on it to change a light bulb or something like that.

any thoughts?

thanks,

jud

[nick brigg]

end grain to long grain? it may hold for a little while but it will fail because its a weak joint.

[Alex Elias]

Weak over time. Go long to long

[Doug Shepard]

I vaguely recall a magazine article sometime about 1-3 (?) years ago that came to the conclusion it was almost as strong as long grain to long grain. I dont recall the details but it would probably have been in either FWW, Wood, or possibly WW Journal or Popular WW. I get the first 2 but sometimes buy the 2nd two.

[Terry Fogarty]

Jud, use Titebond111, its one of the best end grain glues on the market, It wont let you down:)

[Dennis Ryan]

if you decide to go this route, you should size up the end grain by giving it a very thin layer of glue first, then letting it dry. it'll keep the glue from wicking up the grain, and away from the joint.

I've made some miters this way that I could not easily break. it'll help if you have very smooth end grain.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

generally not nearly so strong.

Can be pretty good IF you first pre-treat the end grain with a glue coat then when it's mostly cured re apply more slue and glue the assembly up.


I suspect it works best with Epoxy.

Somewhere On the Web I recently saw as photo series of a test:
Here's the pix The one on the Right is the pone that was pre treated.
69195

69196

69197

Notice please that there is nothing about Time and wood movement. The real killer because when the wood starts moving the glue often can't keep up.

[Howard Acheson]

If I understand you correctly, you are heading for trouble. You can not mix grain directions when making something like you describe. If you want to have some end grain, it ALL must be end grain and, you need to have mating side edges be all flatsawn or quartersawn.

Here are some instructions for making an end grain butcher block. The same info is applicable to what you want to do. Remember, the amount of wood movement is different all three grain directions on a block.

There is a little engineering that needs to be considered when building an end grain butcher block. First, choose wood where the growth rings (viewed from the end) run as close to 90 degrees or parallel to one edge. Remember, the expansion/contraction is about double along the annular rings verses perpendicular to the rings. You've got to keep the grain running in the same direction as you glue up your strips. In other words, don't glue a flatsawn edge to a quartersawn edge.

Next, the way butcher blocks are made is to glue up strips of wood like you were making a laminated type cutting board. These laminated panels are then run through a planer to flatten them and bring them to equal thickness. Then the panel is crosscut into strips of blocks equal to the thickness that you want the butcher block to be. These block strips are then glued together again keeping the grain running in the same directions.

Not paying attention to the grain orientation will lead to the block cracking and/or joints being pulled apart.

A type II adhesive will work just fine however, you need to be sure you do everything right to get good adhesion. Your glue faces should be flat and freshly cut. It they were cut more than a few days earlier, freshen them up with about three swipes with 320 sandpaper and block to keep the faces flat.

Generally, threaded rod is not used as maple has quite a bit of movement when it's moisture content changes. Threaded rod would restrict this movement and either deform the block or pull the nut/washers into the wood when it expanded leaving the rod performing no function when the wood later shrinks. Proper gluing will keep the block together.

Finally, it always much cheaper, and a lot less aggrevating to purchase a butcher block than to make one. The firms that specialize in end grain butcher blocks have speciaiized equipment to apply the necessary clamping force, plane the initial boards exactly correctly, plane the first glue up and then clamps to make the final block.

[Chris Friesen]

Finally, it always much cheaper, and a lot less aggrevating to purchase a butcher block than to make one.

I'd have to disagree with the first part of this statement. I made an end-grain butcher block cutting board using about $50 worth of wood (hard maple and cherry). I couldn't find anywhere that would supply even a plain maple one for that, much less patterned with contrasting woods.

If you factor in labour, of course it's cheaper...

[jud dinsmore]

finished pics are below. ho, hum 600+ blocks. i ended up gluing them with the end grain exposed.

jud

[Kyle Stiefel]

Great work, that isn't easy keep everything lined up like that. I am ready for a large chess game now.

[Steve Clardy]

Looks great Jud ;)

[mike roe]

looks awesome and i bet you saved a bundle - i built one and before i decided to build i got quotes from two companies, both for the same spec to what i built. both quotes were over $1000!