Marquetry 101 (needed)

[Joe Pelonio]

I finally got around to attempting to do some inlay work. This small sample is oak veneer on baltic birch. I was actually pretty happy about how it fit together. My question is, on larger, more intricate work, how do you glue the pieces? In this case I was able to apply the glue and the pieces prior to the glue setting or the veneer curling, and get it clamped. I was thinking though, that would be really hard to do on a big, intricate piece.

[Dave Fifield]

Hi Joe,

Inlay and marquetry are different. What you did there was inlay work, where you used your laser to engrave shallow holes in a slab of wood to inlay some veneer that you'd cut out using your laser.

If you want to do more intricate picture work, then you will need to do marquetry, where you build the whole thing (background veneer as well as the art) up as a taped-together kind of jigsaw puzzle, one veneer thickness all over, then glue it down to a substrate in one go (either with a veneer press, or a vacuum press). This is what I do all the time.

I'm nearly finished writing an online book on the subject. If you like, I can send you a preview of what I have so far. That'd get you going nicely.

Regards,

[Joe Pelonio]

Thanks Dave, I'd love to see the preview. It sounds like I'd eventually like to get into doing both. It's a lot of fun.

[Dennis Perry]

Hey Joe, I show the process I use on my about us page, link is in my profile. I've attached a work in progress may be completed mid August.

Have fun Dennis
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[Joe Pelonio]

Thanks, Dennis, that helps too. I think at first I'm going to be doing more of the inlay work, specifically signs, since someone asked me about it.

I do stained glass, and it's funny how marquetry is so similar in some ways. In fact we could probably use the same drawings for both. And my wife does quilting, we could come up with a design and do all 3 with it.

[George M. Perzel]

Hi Joe;
Inlay is obviously a bit easier than marquetry but recommend you don't use normal veneer which is now running at 1/42"- not much margin for error. If you have a bandsaw try cutting your own thick veneer ( I cut to about 1/8").
Many types of scrap exotic woods on Ebay very cheap which yields a lot of veneer.
This will also allow you to use a water base glue which will quickly warp normal veneer. For inlaying you don't need to worry too much about the laser kerf as a little clamp pressure will force the inlay to expand a little.
Check out www.laserarts.net (Unique heading) for a bunch of inl;ay examples.
Good Luck
Best regards;
George
LaserArts

[Tom Radachi]

Hi Joe,

Inlay and marquetry are different. What you did there was inlay work, where you used your laser to engrave shallow holes in a slab of wood to inlay some veneer that you'd cut out using your laser.

If you want to do more intricate picture work, then you will need to do marquetry, where you build the whole thing (background veneer as well as the art) up as a taped-together kind of jigsaw puzzle, one veneer thickness all over, then glue it down to a substrate in one go (either with a veneer press, or a vacuum press). This is what I do all the time.

I'm nearly finished writing an online book on the subject. If you like, I can send you a preview of what I have so far. That'd get you going nicely.

Regards,

I'd love to see a preview as well!

Thanks!
Tom

[Joe Pelonio]

Let me ask a question. With inlay, as I have discovered, you need to use different woods to have any contrast, since there will be sanding to make it perfectly flat after gluing. With marquetry, can you stain the veneers to acheive different colors or does it still require some sanding?

I actually have a pretty good supply of veneer but most of it is unfinished oak.

[Mitchell Andrus]

I use up to 8 different woods in my designs. I surface sand 100% of the time.

If there is staining to be done, I apply a mask after staining, just before applying the finish.

[Scott Shepherd]

I'll do my usual and ask the obvious question that I should know, but don't! Is it required that the inlay, such as a veneer, is perfectly sized to the opening. I've played around with it a time or two with some different shapes and it always seems to fit perfect in some places and be a tiny bit off in others. We're talking maybe a few thousandths. Can you ever really get it perfect, or is that normal. If it's normal, do you fill it, or just clear over it and build up the clear until it's all flat?

[Mike Mackenzie]

Scott,

Usually it fits pretty good without any adjustments however to get a real good fit what we do is to contour to the outside of the graphic by 1/2 the beam width.

The laser works on the center line of the graphic so if you are using a 2.0 lens then you are removing 0.002 from the inside and the outside of the line you are cutting.

To get a real tight fit what we have done is to mirror image the graphic and color it white and then place it on a black background then raster away the black and leave the white standing similar to rubber stamp then flip the pc over into the pocket glue and clamp and then sand off the back side of the material.

This takes longer to laser but you only have to handle one pc and the fit is amazing.

Here is a sample we did this way.

[Pete Wood]

Scott,

Usually it fits pretty good without any adjustments however to get a real good fit what we do is to contour to the outside of the graphic by 1/2 the beam width.

The laser works on the center line of the graphic so if you are using a 2.0 lens then you are removing 0.002 from the inside and the outside of the line you are cutting.

To get a real tight fit what we have done is to mirror image the graphic and color it white and then place it on a black background then raster away the black and leave the white standing similar to rubber stamp then flip the pc over into the pocket glue and clamp and then sand off the back side of the material.

This takes longer to laser but you only have to handle one pc and the fit is amazing.

Here is a sample we did this way.

Would it not be simpler, then, to just make a border, in Corel, that is offset by 0.002" around each piece? That way, you would vector cut each piece - instead of rastering.

It's a question, not a statement, as I have not done this kind of work - but I would like to attempt it.

Thanks

[Joe Pelonio]

On my first attempt I intentionally used the exact same file to engrave out the background piece and cut the inlays, to see how big the gap was. Since
then I did a test with a .002 contour and it's a much nicer fit, about as good as I could expect.

[Scott Shepherd]

I also did the contour method. I created a shape, contoured it inside by .002" and outside by .002". Used the inside one to raster out the shape, used the outside one to vector cut the inlay. It fit quite well on the Y-Axis, but seemed a wee bit short on the x-axis.

However, I used a water based wood glue, so I imagined that would have some affect on it all? I clamped it in place and the glue dried, and it still seems a wee bit short. I'm guessing the average onlooker would never notice, but I come from a machinist background, so .004" is a lot to me :)

Mike, that's quite nice. Not sure I have the time or patience to do much of it for money, but it's enjoyable.

[Mike Mackenzie]

Pete,

Yes you could do it that way however handling lots of tiny pcs can be real difficult thus the raster method and only working with one pc. the process to engrave away the material may take longer but the assembly is much easier. Of course this method would only be good for one color of wood inlay.

[Mitchell Andrus]

I don't use contour, I just bump the outline up a notch (thicker) before rastering to be sure the piece fits into the rastered area. The glue swells the wood so any gaps go away.

[George M. Perzel]

Hi Gang;
Here's an inlay done with maple and walnut using Mike's method which he shared before on this forum- almost impossible to do this level of detail any other way.
Best regards;
George
LaserArts

[Scott Shepherd]

I also tried Mike's method this morning and this is what I came up with. It's walnut with a beech inlay. It was a little tricky but overall, I was quite happy with how easy it was, especially considering this was the first try!

Thanks Mike!

[Dave Jones]

Mike, it wasn't quite spelled out in your post, but I gather that what you are saying is that when you raster the image, you are not going all the way through the wood. So you are left with a single piece of wood with the inlay pieces all sticking up. Then when you flip it over and glue it into the master piece you are left looking at the back of the wood which is one large piece (though quite thin in spots). You then sand away that surface and are left with all the small pieces inlaid into the wood.

Is that correct?

Sounds brilliant.

[Scott Shepherd]

Dave, that's exactly what I did from reading Mike's post. It was close. I rastered until it was basically nothing but wood fibers holding the pieces together. You could see through it in most places. It only took a couple of swipes with some 240 and the backing was gone.

[George M. Perzel]

Scott/Dave;
Scott- nice job- especially for a first try. If you have a drum sander you don;t need to get down as fine as Scott did. Dave, the process is exactly as you described it-make sure both surfaces to be lasered are nice and flat.
Best regards;
George
LaserArts

[rick woodward]

Mike Mackenzie (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/member.php?u=3671) vbmenu_register("postmenu_632414", true);

The flower inlay you did looks fantastic. I have a question . Did you have a jig for the box ? Otherwise i dont see how you went back and lasered the lines in the flowers ? thanks.

[Mike Mackenzie]

Dave,

Yes but we only raster away about the same amount as we engrave the pocket depth. We found that if the pocket was to deep we would have problems and if it was to shallow we would have problems sanding especially if using a drum sander little pcs would break off. So basically we raster the pocket to about 1/8 and then we do the mateing pc with the same settings to achieve about the same depth. be sure to glue everything real good if one section is not glued good it will rise and not sand smoothly.

Rick,

We made a simple acrylic fixture so that the box lined back up in the system once we completed the inlay. We then checked it with the red dot pointer and everything was perfectly aligned then did the finishing laser process.

[Scott Shepherd]

One more try at it today.

It looks a lot sharper and clearer in real life than on the photo, but you get the idea. The sharks are about .120" tall each. Used Mike's method. Inlay material is only .020" thick, so it's a little touchy to work with. I need to get some thicker materials and have a proper go at it.