Huge Disappointment

[Bart Leetch]

I was in our local Home Depot store yesterday & noticed that some of the power tools are not available to pick up & hold in our hand to check them out to see if the particular tool is what we want to buy it. The same with the stationary tools.

Instead they have mounted big cards with pictures & a complete description
Have you ever tried to see how a tool feels in your hand while looking at a picture & description?

Then when I went to contact them by E-mail oops we can't connect you to the URL.

So I called the 800 # & complained anyway.

They are sending me a $10 gift certificate.

I don't know what to spend it on when & if I go back into Huge Disappointment.

[Steven Triggs]

Yeah, they've been moving over to the method you're talking about at my store too. It is really frustrating. Seems like a bad thing for the whole store too. I sometimes have gone in HD for no reason other than to look at tools for fun, and invariably end up buying something from the store while there. As the tools are becoming less accessible, the fun of going has gone down, and I've found I go in there much less often than I used to. I wonder how many dollars worth of sales a given store might lose simply because people no longer go in for "fun."

[Andy Hoyt]

Rationalization is a dangerous thing.

My guess is that some suit in the corporate office said to himself, "Our biggest competitor in tool sales is the whole on-line notion, and since those purchases aren't influenced by the need to conduct a pre-buy fondle, why should we make that available to our in-store buyers. That's a one less tool we have to open up, make available to fondlers who will then swipe the allen wrench.

My further guess is that he doesn't know that we all have 8,000 allen wrenches at home already; and that the suit's only power tool is the cell phone he uses to call his contractor.

[Perry Holbrook]

I'm afraid it's a probuct of our culture. Shoplifting is an incrediable problem in the tool department. Those tools on display probably don't have the magnetic strip that sets off the door alarm. Maybe they should pressure the tool mfgs to hide something in the tool that will set off the alarm.

Perry

[Steve Clardy]

Rationalization is a dangerous thing.

My guess is that some suit in the corporate office said to himself, "Our biggest competitor in tool sales is the whole on-line notion, and since those purchases aren't influenced by the need to conduct a pre-buy fondle, why should we make that available to our in-store buyers. That's a one less tool we have to open up, make available to fondlers who will then swipe the allen wrench.

My further guess is that he doesn't know that we all have 8,000 allen wrenches at home already; and that the suit's only power tool is the cell phone he uses to call his contractor.


8000 + 1 here I think :rolleyes: :D :D

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

some of the power tools are not available to pick up & hold in our hand to check them out to see if the particular tool is what we want to buy it. The same with the stationary tools.

Instead they have mounted big cards with pictures & a complete description
Have you ever tried to see how a tool feels in your hand while looking at a picture & description?


Use the stupid plastic card and even the tool that's bolted to the display as the first stage in your inquiry to guide you in your decision whether you actually want to hold the thing.

Then - - - - -
Open a box - period. That's what I do. Any one says anything to me I tell 'em what I'm doing and they are fine with it.

There's no box - - ask for one. They will get it.

[Steven Triggs]

Sears has a system whereby a conducting cable is locked around the handle of their display power tools. If you cut the cable, it sets off an alarm. This seems pretty effective.


Those tools on display probably don't have the magnetic strip that sets off the door alarm. Maybe they should pressure the tool mfgs to hide something in the tool that will set off the alarm.

[Richard M. Wolfe]

I'm with Cliff. Ask for one to check it out. I've never had that refused. And should they refuse.....then I refuse.

And I take it one further. When I decide to make the purchase I ask them to check it to see it runs OK. Of course I'm not going to do that with something that takes assembly or setup, but I have no problem with something like a belt sander. It's a thirty mile trip for me (one way) and it used to be sixty, and still is for some things. The last one would have been sixty for a random orbit sander. I learned my lesson several years ago with a NIB faulty switch.

[Greg Peterson]

When I'm looking for a tool, and have several to choose from, I like to pick up each tool. While I'm holding the tool, I'll read the spec sheet and see how it compares to its competition.

By eliminating the interactive, tactile aspect of tool research/purchasing, why bother going into the store?

I'm not going to open a bunch of boxes or ask someone to get me one, two or three boxes. I'll just go to a store where I can sample the goods first hand.

[Chris Kalkowski]

I was told last Christmas that they were going to start bringing in televisions and such to compete with BestBuy and Circuit City. Maybe they are finally doing it - making room......

[Dave Avery]

Most successful companies listen to their customers. Bart did exactly the right thing - and HD responded in a very customer-centric way. If enough people make their displeasure known, perhaps the "suits" will listen. Best. Dave.


Rationalization is a dangerous thing.

My guess is that some suit in the corporate office said to himself, "Our biggest competitor in tool sales is the whole on-line notion, and since those purchases aren't influenced by the need to conduct a pre-buy fondle, why should we make that available to our in-store buyers. That's a one less tool we have to open up, make available to fondlers who will then swipe the allen wrench.

My further guess is that he doesn't know that we all have 8,000 allen wrenches at home already; and that the suit's only power tool is the cell phone he uses to call his contractor.

[Bruce Wrenn]

I'm afraid it's a probuct of our culture. Shoplifting is an incrediable problem in the tool department. Those tools on display probably don't have the magnetic strip that sets off the door alarm. Maybe they should pressure the tool mfgs to hide something in the tool that will set off the alarm.

PerryShop lifting is HD's own fault. Remember the "self service check out" Thieves take stolen credit cards and tools to self service check out. Buy um on stolen CC and then resell for cash. By not having a cashier to check ID and card match, HD saves on labor, but screws themselves. A friend who runs a pawn shop figured this out, then alerted police. A couple weeks later HD loss prevention guy calls wanting "his tools " back. Pawn shop owner explains that the tools are no longer his as they have been sold, as is allowed by law. Cutting corners is like shooting yourself in the foot. Also each time HD kicks a line out of the store, they are forced to sell inventory at reduced prices. Where do you think all those bargins (gloats) come from?

[Greg Peterson]

"Thieves take stolen credit cards and tools to self service check out. Buy um on stolen CC and then resell for cash."

This is why I don't buy much of anything off of Craigslist. If I feel reasonably confident that the item is being sold by the legitimate owner, that's one thing. But I see a whole lot of hand power tools listed these days, and I immediately think of shoplifters or job site thieves or burglars.

I suspect there are people that are stealing these items in one city/region and shipping them to another city/region to keep local authorities from catching them. I always wonder what city all those Dewalt tools come from.

[Randal Stevenson]

A while back over at BT3central there was a discussion about the removal of larger tools from HD. One of the posters mentioned some lawsuit in California, due to someone (a kid if I remember right), getting hurt by one of the wrongly setup Ridgid jointers. So I am not sure that we even have the whole picture (could be a multitude of things into one).

Now I have two HD's close (relatively and in safe area's). One has a decent tool display (used to be crib style), the other is more on shelves. The one WITH the display gets visited quite a bit, but the other one, tends to have the items in stock. The ones with the stock, also tends to have the most help in it. The other, your lucky if you have one cash register (the contractor one), and can find an employee in the store, that isn't at the returns desk. They do go through the building materials (probably 85% of all sales through that store), but if you need a tool, or want to pay a PERSON, your gonna wait.
Now since I work some odd hours, for a while, that HD went 24 hours. I LOVED it. I could get off work, go there, and at two in the morning, they would mark the closeout items, and I could buy them (got my first decent router and table that way, 690 3 base kit with a table for $150 after tax). Most of the night employees new me, as I worked close enough by, they would see me at work on their way in. No big deal, but I was one of the few LEGITIMATE customers. They had over $100,000.00 loss in 6 months of nights, kids stopping for huffing supplies, and who knows what else.
No mater whether we like it or not, they are gonna have to do what they need to to stay profitable, and tailor their policies, toward their target base. Even though it's nice (wonderful actually), to look and feel a tool, how many people here have ever gone looking, then went to Amazon, or some other place and ordered it? The Diyer tends to price shop (which drill is cheapest), and/or finance, while the contractor is more of a, I need this now and I like this brand. Those tend to be their target audience around here. So I understand why (even though I also don't like it).

As for thieves, seen a lot of dead big screen tv's go on Craigslist, due to people buying them and getting a home warranty, then turning the tv in. Cops can't always do anything (here the insurance company is the victim (we pay) and must file the complaint). Pawnshops that keep items in the back longer, till they drop off the stolen sheets (and I lost over $1000 worth of tools lately :mad:), some days I wish I lived in Texas with the castle policy.

[Dave Sabo]

Perry - The Depot has been hiding magnetic security strips in their tools for years. Just about every Ryobi and Rigid power tool has them put in at the factory.

[Matt Meiser]

But those strips are useless. Seems like those alarms are always going off and all they do is shut them off. I've had the alarms go off on me so many times walking out with my purchases I don't even bother stopping and no one has ever chased me down.

[Jeff Raymond]

Best thing I got from HD was a referral to Western Tool Supply so I don't have to go to HD for 'tools' anymore.

[David Cramer]

Regardless of what methods they use, people will still steal or scam in one form or another. Corporate won't allow each tool crib to have 5 extra employees to watch/intimidate/pressure potential theives into going elsewhere for many, many reasons.

They will use stolen credit cards, as Bruce alluded to, or any method they can come up with. Why, because this is what they do.

Home Centers tries to keep there number of employees down in each department to keep the payroll down and therefore have lower numbers so the manager/district manager can get a bigger bonus. But it bites them in the butt when there "shrink totals" come in after inventory.

Will stopping theives drop the price of that drill that you were eyeballing, not a chance! You have a better chance of getting it cheaper by waiting when and if it gets discontinued. Huge companies already work in the number of inevitable losses to their bottom line every year. When I worked in a Home Center, theives used our (the stores) cable cutters to cut the cables off the drills on displays. They put the magnetic sensors on the bottom of their shoes and would walk out to see if it sent off the door alarms. It didn't, because our store didn't pay for the system to be on, just to deter a few people with the magnetic sensors. But word travels fast among theives. They are sneaky and persistent and know the law.

They worked in teams when I worked alone and would drag me away to ceiling fans and ask redundant questions to try and keep me there. Not this guy, I would say I'll be right back and run, yes physically run down to the tool area and they would freak out! They didn't have enough time to tip off the people by cell phone and I would catch them in the act. I could do nothing because they didn't actually steal it until they left the store, and they knew. They could put it in their pants and walk around with it and ditch it somewhere. Now if you grab/stop them outside the store and it's not on them, look out..............can you say lawsuit!! Finally, they realized that I was not going to let them get away with it on my shift and they had to change plans. They would get the older gentleman who worked alone during the day and suddenly, we had no more dewalt drills, anywhere!!!!

Would my stopping them lower the price of the merchandise they were trying to steal, no way! The big wigs in corporate would love for everyone to believe that, but it's just not true. If nobody every stole anything, then maybe, but that ain't gonna happen. They account for the obvious and are watching their employees just as much as the customers. Many people on registers don't ring up items for friends/family members and that is who they are watching the most.

One guy in power tools, an employee, was actually bringing tools out to cars for people and wasn't questioned for months and months because they thought "hey, if he's with them, then obviously the customer paid for it at another register and he's helping them to load it up". It sounds nuts, doesn't it. But it worked for a long, long time for an employee of a MAJOR Home Center. He ripped them off thousands, and thousands of dollars (no, it wasn't at my store). Customers would walk out with a paslode fully knowing that no one could physically touch them. They have someone waiting in a vehicle with bogus plates and they drive away. Unless the police happen to be outside the store, it was adios to that tool. Can you say frustrating?:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: If you tackle that person, it's assault unless they do something to you first, which is not likely (they know the law).

I could go on and on and I only worked in a Home Center for 2 plus years. It's quite an eyeopener and not what people think. You also get great deals when the 2 big Home Centers have the same item and get into a price war, but you have to watch and be in the right place at the right time.

Yes, I realize Bart originally posted about getting to see tools first hand versus looking at a display that you can't even touch. I thought I'd expand a little on the why that is. Believe me, I could go on and on with stories that I've seen. My wife told me that I should write a book on it!

Dave

p.s. Obviously, it depends on the region you live in and that is a big part of why you are looking at a tool on a card versus the real thing. Sorry Bart if this was a highjack, my apologies.

[Brian Penning]

As far as feeling a tool to see if you like it, that's getting a bit tougher these days since the stores have wised up and removed the batteries from cordless tools.
"Jeez!, this 36 Volt drill is light as a feather!" Duh!

[Greg Peterson]

"Jeez!, this 36 Volt drill is light as a feather!"

True. However one can at least check the grip and controls to see if the unit fits their hand. Weight of batteries has to be assumed to a degree. And the feedback you get from gripping the unit(s) is far more instructive than a placard and picture can provide.

[Kim Spence]

Easy solution to a complex issue.....if you don't like Home Depot's new tool display arrangements, vote with your wallet and take your business elseware. Nobody is forcing you to shop there. Problem solved.

[Chuck Lenz]

I'd have to agree with David Cramer on this one. I worked in a hardware store for about a year. Unless you have actually worked in this type of enviroment you really can't imagine the stuff customers do. I know I sure didn't. And the pay surely wasn't anywhere close to what a person should get for putting up with alot of the BS. If your looking for a job that will beat your self asteem down to nothing in short order that would be one of them.

[Andrew Williams]

people have been stealing as long as the concept of ownership has existed. It is not logical to assume it will end. Harware stores have had to contend with this since there have been hardware stores. Just because a large chain store corporation has much greater profits than a small family operation does not mean that they will lose a greater percentage of their profits from shoplifting. If the corporate office really feels that this policy is necessary then they will implement it. My guess is that they will lose in the long run, so long as Lowe's still allows people to touch tools. Please note that I am not including local hardware stores since many of them have been starved out by the big boys. There are a few local hardware stores left around here, none of whom have open power tools on display.

More importantly, has HD in fact been losing money? My own research has shown that they have shown very good growth on earnings per share over the last 5 years, no backward trends at all. This is public information.

My personal decision would be to go to Lowe's if absolutely necessary, but for the most part, mail order from a WWing specialty store or make the 2.5 hour trip to Woodcraft. Although it might not be a bad idea to have some HD stock, I don't really want to shop there.

[Robert Mayer]

Home depot is still in business???

Between lowes, woodcraft, and amazon i see no need to use home depot anymore.

[Bart Leetch]

We have a Lumberman's lumberyard 12 miles away in another small town. A Frontier Lumber yard in town & an Ace store in town.

That is it unless you want to go to Huge Disappointment.

Or travel a bit more than 30 miles to Mt Vernon find what you want at Lowes or some of the other smaller retailers.

You could travel even further up to Bellingham an hour away, there we have Grizzly, Western Tool, Hardware Sales & Windsor Plywood which is a very expensive place to buy material but boy do they have beautiful wood. There are probably more business that I don't know about but I only have enough time to get around to just some many of them.

[James Carmichael]

I've been hearing of this move ever since the CEO got the boot, but so far, all the stores I frequent here in D/FW still keep power tools in stock (although one store's stationary demo units are lookin awfully bad).

I suspect Bart's local BORG quit stocking power tools because they don't do much volume in them, not due to shoplifting losses.

[David Cramer]

My point exactly Andrew. People have been and will always steal, regardless of the environment. Corporations know that and it is all figured into their inventory. Shrink loss is going to happen, period. The percentage will depend upon the store and their methods to combat it. The percentages are different in a large Home Center versus a hardware store, but there is still going to be losses. The trickiest theives will always find a way, but some can be detered by certain methods.

Router bits were free to look at and pick up and handle at my store, until they found tons of router containers in the lumber area in between the display doors. You can't re-order something on a computer until it shows the number is at a certain value. If it says you've got 12, but there are none, it could not be just cleared out with a few key strokes. Anyway, the router bits then went into glass locked display containers and employees had to hand them to the customer. Then they finally had to be walked up to the register by the tool employee with the customer in tow. It may not sound fair, but unfortunately, the theives made this happen and most honest people who had more shopping to do didn't mind at all. The router bit was waiting for them at customer service when they were done shopping. When you think about it, it's not that bad.

Personally, if there was a sign with a picture of a tool I wanted, I would just ask to see it. I've never been told no, not even once. I have had to do this at Lowe's many, many times. It doesn't bother me because I know why they have to do that. Trust me, the employees don't want to have to go unlock a cage, it's not there say and they didn't make up that rule.

Home Depot netted over a billion dollars (1.1 or 1.2) in installed sales in 2005, if my memory is correct. Not grossed, netted. As of today they are branching out into anything and everything that they can be involved in as far as installed sales go. They get a huge piece of the pie for hiring people to put up shingles, install cabinets, etc..... Of course there is cost, they have many people who work in those departments, but not compared to what they make. They have and will always make money and people have and always will steal.

Just my thoughts, and Chuck Lenz is correct, until you work in this environment, you really have no idea on how it works. I thought I did also, but my manager set me straight on the reality of what you can and can't do. A huge eyeopener for me, but I can say that I did my part to stop the theives, even though it did absolutely nothing in the long run. They realized that I knew what they were doing, but when they work in large teams in a large store, they can and will get what they are after. Not my rules or thinking, but it's the way it is.

Dave

[Vic Damone]

If your American business has customer contact or customer service of any kind, today's fashion is to advertise quality customer service and provide as little as possible. It's practically impossible to prove the benefits and profits of quality customer service but it's simple to show the savings for not providing it.

You can't gripe about the lack of customer service and still pay a low price for a product, just look at the price of full service gas.

The key to the poster's frustration is the return policy. Wanna look at it? Buy it and take it home and look at it, even try it out, then return it. The BORG is fairly easy to return. This is the environment they've set up, you just gotta work it and forget about the way it was.

Vic

[Dave Avery]

Home Depot netted over a billion dollars (1.1 or 1.2) in installed sales in 2005, if my memory is correct. Not grossed, netted.
Dave

An interesting point, but over the last five years, Home Depot's stock has risen between 25-30%. The S&P 500 has gained over 60% over the same timeframe. So investors and Directors aren't happy. That's why Bob Nardelli is no longer there. Clearly they need to do things differently. Is this the right move, maybe, maybe not. But give them credit for trying to do something different.

[David Cramer]

Sorry if I am taking your post the wrong way Dave, but I was in no way not giving Home Depot credit for trying to do something different. I was merely pointing out that******************if Mr. Wilson or Mr. Smith doesn't buy that drill because it's not out on display, Home Depot has many, many more ways to make money and big corporate who makes most of the decisions doesn't care as much as people think, believe me on that*************. Not that they shouldn't care, but I've been in that environment and made many phone calls from my store, with big goose eggs as results. I was at another Home Center, but really there's not that big of a difference.

They are currently trying to get a "big piece of the pie" of anything that can be installed and that they can be a part of. No one was not giving them credit for that, certainly not me. That is business 101, plain and simple. The store is open to make money any way that they can and for no other reason.

Net installed sales are not going to parallel the increase in stock of any major company, unless that is all they do. You are totally correct, investors are not happy and the employees that I occassionally talk to when shopping were beyond pissed at Mr. Nardelli and his farewell package (which he'll never get). Clearly, Home Depot has a lot of homework to do to gain back customers. No surprise on the S&P 500 gaining more than Home Depot over 5 years. The last 5 years have not been great years to own stock in Home Depot. Not the worst, but far from what investors expected.

Again, sorry Dave if I took your post the wrong way, but I have a lot of inside info on how these places operate and a lot of it is dissapointing to say the least. Have a great evening!:)

Dave

[Bart Leetch]

"Personally, if there was a sign with a picture of a tool I wanted, I would just ask to see it. I've never been told no, not even once."

First you gotta go to the turky farm to find the turky that works in the tool area.

"Home Depot netted over a billion dollars (1.1 or 1.2) in installed sales in 2005, if my memory is correct."

I can believe that at $6500 to reface a 2 bedroom apartment kitchen & little bethroom vanity.

[Robert Mayer]

Neither home depot nor lowes hires enough people on the floor to discourage theft. Nor do they teach them what to look out for. You can walk down 5 or 6 aisles and never see a single employee.